Afterlife? How so? Philosophy...

Your sense of self does not end when you die. Just because you do not remember something, does not mean that it does not exist =)

Your "I" remains intact after you die. The only thing you shed when you die, is your physical human body, as well as all the negativity that goes along with it.

All your earthly experiences are remembered in your soul, and your soul never forgets. Your soul uses what you have learned in your previous lives, and applies that knowledge and experience in your current and future lives.

An example is the ability to play a musical instrument. There is a reason why some very young children play musical instruments better than older adults that have been playing music all their life. Those young children have been playing music for hundreds of previous lifetimes, while those older adults only started playing music in this lifetime.

I am creator therefore NO.

You don't exist.

there never was a "you" "me" "I" or "now" we we're just told otherwise.

I suggest doing some research on those children that remember past lives and can be proved.

It works something like this.

You are spirit.

You incarnate PART of yourself when you come here on earth. Humans are not capable of holding all spirit yet (or ever) not sure which one yet.

Your memory is wiped/suppressed.
I guess so it causes less implications in your learning.

You die, and your return to your full self where everything is once again clear.

Each time you incarnate you attain a new set of attributes and identity which i will call the (SOUL). The soul is individual to the incarnate and is affixed to that body. When you die you take the knowledge gained from the soul and it adds on to the SPIRIT. Which is the core of yourself. Every time you incarnate you will bring part of this CORE which is you, but you will also have individual attributes from that particular soul, which makes the person you are right now.

If you raise your vibration/awareness enough you obtain a point where you can view parts of your past lives in meditation.

Bit complicated, but i have discovered this all out myself from experience and am not regurgitating anything.

If you would be a mystic you would see many "former" lives of yourself and of persons that are important in your current life.

I suggest doing some research on those children that remember past lives and can be proved.

It works something like this.

You are spirit.

You incarnate PART of yourself when you come here on earth. Humans are not capable of holding all spirit yet (or ever) not sure which one yet.

Your memory is wiped/suppressed.
I guess so it causes less implications in your learning.

You die, and your return to your full self where everything is once again clear.

Each time you incarnate you attain a new set of attributes and identity which i will call the (SOUL). The soul is individual to the incarnate and is affixed to that body. When you die you take the knowledge gained from the soul and it adds on to the SPIRIT. Which is the core of yourself. Every time you incarnate you will bring part of this CORE which is you, but you will also have individual attributes from that particular soul, which makes the person you are right now.

If you raise your vibration/awareness enough you obtain a point where you can view parts of your past lives in meditation.

Bit complicated, but i have discovered this all out myself from experience and am not regurgitating anything.

If we don't have a sense of "self" after we die, and our minds are apparently "wiped" if we reincarnate (consequently not being able to remember our afterlife experience), then how can we have an afterlife?

In other words, if there is no "I" after we die, there is no "you" or "me" or "anything". We need a "self" to refer to others, even a "Heaven", etc. Without an "I" or "me" after we have died, and if we are in "Heaven" then how are we to recognize "our loved ones", and others, in this new place? How do we even recognize a "new place"?

It is like the philosopher Descartes said, "I am thinking, therefore I exist. (I think therefore I am)" But, if, after we die, we aren't "thinking", then how are we still "ourselves"? Where does our true "sense of self" or "I" come from?
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

This gets into the issue of reincarnation, karma, resurrection, and more. Since, if we do somehow retain a sense of "self" / "I" after we die, and we truly do "live on", then reincarnation doesn't really work. If we "reincarnate", after having "lived in the afterlife after death", then we lose our "previous self" and become another person here on Earth (or somewhere else...?).

And if we cannot recall having been in the "afterlife" after our last lifetime, but before we reincarnate, then it never happened. Just like a dream that you wake up from that you cannot remember; you think you just didn't dream (but you did, we all dream every night). Or when someone tells you about something that you did that you can't remember for some reason - it is like it didn't happen. In other words, without memory, the event essentially never happened, especially if there is no physical evidence to prove that it did.

If, when we die, we just turn back into some energy (like an electrical current), then that energy is not aware of itself. It may continue on forever (as an electrical current), but it is not aware of itself. The thing (person) that this energy/electricity powers is able to be aware of itself, but not the energy itself.

There are just too many contradictory theories, thoughts, beliefs, and ideas to all be true. If some are, then others cannot be true. Or none are true. Personally, I don't know what to believe at this point in life, I'm just raising the question out of curiosity.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? Please spare me the religious / cultish / magical answers of things you "believe" with no sound logic behind it - we've all heard those before and they serve nothing other than to "win" in an argument. I'm truly curious about the philosophy and potential around this subject. I am talking actual reason, logic, and critical thinking here. This is not meant to be religious, spiritual, or scientific, more philosophical.

Looking forward to your answers. Thanks.

There is no PROOF of anything,although a interesting
post to read it proves nothing but,a DEAD end.

If we don't have a sense of "self" after we die, and our minds are apparently "wiped" if we reincarnate (consequently not being able to remember our afterlife experience), then how can we have an afterlife?

In other words, if there is no "I" after we die, there is no "you" or "me" or "anything". We need a "self" to refer to others, even a "Heaven", etc. Without an "I" or "me" after we have died, and if we are in "Heaven" then how are we to recognize "our loved ones", and others, in this new place? How do we even recognize a "new place"?

It is like the philosopher Descartes said, "I am thinking, therefore I exist. (I think therefore I am)" But, if, after we die, we aren't "thinking", then how are we still "ourselves"? Where does our true "sense of self" or "I" come from?
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

This gets into the issue of reincarnation, karma, resurrection, and more. Since, if we do somehow retain a sense of "self" / "I" after we die, and we truly do "live on", then reincarnation doesn't really work. If we "reincarnate", after having "lived in the afterlife after death", then we lose our "previous self" and become another person here on Earth (or somewhere else...?).

And if we cannot recall having been in the "afterlife" after our last lifetime, but before we reincarnate, then it never happened. Just like a dream that you wake up from that you cannot remember; you think you just didn't dream (but you did, we all dream every night). Or when someone tells you about something that you did that you can't remember for some reason - it is like it didn't happen. In other words, without memory, the event essentially never happened, especially if there is no physical evidence to prove that it did.

If, when we die, we just turn back into some energy (like an electrical current), then that energy is not aware of itself. It may continue on forever (as an electrical current), but it is not aware of itself. The thing (person) that this energy/electricity powers is able to be aware of itself, but not the energy itself.

There are just too many contradictory theories, thoughts, beliefs, and ideas to all be true. If some are, then others cannot be true. Or none are true. Personally, I don't know what to believe at this point in life, I'm just raising the question out of curiosity.

What are your thoughts and opinions on this? Please spare me the religious / cultish / magical answers of things you "believe" with no sound logic behind it - we've all heard those before and they serve nothing other than to "win" in an argument. I'm truly curious about the philosophy and potential around this subject. I am talking actual reason, logic, and critical thinking here. This is not meant to be religious, spiritual, or scientific, more philosophical.

Looking forward to your answers. Thanks.

Sounds like the prevailing theory, one I've heard before, for sure. In fact, this is the theory that made me pose the question in the first place. The trouble with this theory is that people don't seem to realize that this implies that death is then truly final. Final for "you", the person in this life, and, as I explained in the first post, there is no experience of the afterlife.

Re-read what I wrote in that original post. Without an "I", nothing can be experienced, and without a way of remembering it, it is as though it never occurred. Therefore, there is no afterlife. And, apparently, there is only an "electric current" (soul/spirit) that runs us. This should/spirit continues on with, as you are explaining, a memory of certain things from past lives, but nothing more. Like a spiritual hard drive, with no operating system.

so far i have read one page of this thread and love it

nothing wrong with some good ole philosophical debate.

my 2 cents:
Some memories are not meant to be remembered...
some memories are.

I had what doctors call a bi-polar manic episode... i saw a few "spirits" who know one else could see.

Was this a hallucination? Definitely could be. Can i have a problem with my brain? Most def.

But, i saw what i saw.

I also have experienced "flashbacks"

I feel at some point my existence i was on a planet where terrible things happened to my family and friends. We were subject to ridicule and torment, public humiliation. An entire universe watched on as we were raped and tortured daily.

That is more real than even things i experience now.

but once again, i could be delusional.

I dont understand what you mean by "this implies that death is truly final", i did re-read your post. When you die you more or less loose the thought process associated with the body not the spirit. So the true self/essence lives on.
Basically ego dies.

I guess you could call it some kind of spiritual hard drive tho.

I dont expect anyone to believe this, but i have been to what i think is the after life, or at least another dimension way beyond what you call reality here.

I no longer had a physical body like here, it was like an energetic hollow version. I still felt the same, only alot lighter and transparent. It still felt as if i had eyes, and a brain to operate only i didn't. You no longer had to think because what you wanted to know was already there, and movement happened with thought.
Speaking was telepathically, and everything was just like a plasma energy, and you merged with it.
Other beings appeared almost indescribable with language.
Like the atoms surrounding the core being glowed forming somewhat of an invisible picture.
I remember the first thing i thought when i got their was, "Hey I've lost all that crap that goes on in my head".
All that unnecessary thinking etc.

Think im getting a little of coarse here, but the point is. Where ever the hell this was, it wasn't in this reality and i had no body. It made me 110% sure that you dont cease to exist after death.

Actually meant to address this in the last post.

I mean it implies that death is truly final for that conscious being. Since that conscious being never gets reincarnated as that same conscious being ever again. Their "energy" may, but everything that makes that person unique doesn't. At least as far as I can theorize...

Because if, lets say, there is an afterlife, and you are able to experience it, then "you" must still be "you" somehow. But are "you" the individual who just died? Or are you your "soul/spirit"? Philosophically speaking, you need to have a point of reference to experience "other-ness", even if you don't understand yourself to be an "I" (to be sentient). So the question is, "Who are "you" in the afterlife?"

Then, add to that the concept of memory, and if it gets wiped if / when we reincarnate. Then we never remember the afterlife experience. Which means, for all intents and purposes, it never happened. Anymore than you can recall something during a time when you were asleep. If you have ever fallen asleep during a TV show or movie, or have ever had too much to drink, then you know what I'm talking about. Since it is not in your memory, then to you, it never happened. A better example is drinking too much, because in that case someone can say they saw you do something, but you just don't recall it. Either way, it didn't happen from your perspective, therefore, it never happened.

Therefore, there is no afterlife, and the individual doesn't carry on. Hence, death is final. Mind you, I don't want to believe this since it is awfully grim to me, but this is something that critical thought and reason appear to be pointing to.

Hopefully this line of reasoning isn't correct, but it holds water, don't you think?