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Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality

 
calin

User ID: 14023715
United States
05/19/2013 12:11 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
...

That to me implies that they realized they had negative emotional boundaries that they felt they consciously needed to escape. They released their self loathing - or other self inflicted admonishments - to free their souls from their self imposed prison and low self worth.
 Quoting: calin


That's a good theory, but there are cases which shows this assumption is false.

There are some that end up in a hellish NDE, but still felt themselves to be a good person. So they were in a good emotional state, but still went there.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559


Ah yes... so true!

Question... did they believe in a heaven and hell? Did they believe that they had to confess their sins before dying?

Did they have deep feelings of guilt? Shame? And if so, would they consciously and verbally express those emotions? Are they buried so deep that they can't forgive themselves?

One can think and express that they are good, but do they truly feel they love themselves, are a value to humanity, have compassion for others and themselves? Do they self inflict negative feeling on themselves for their actions, behaviors, etc.?? We are harder on ourselves than on others at times.

We really don't know much about this person you are speaking about? Is this person honest wit themselves?

Too many scenarios to take that as fact. But.... good point and I know about these cases. Doesn't make the assumption as you say false.

hf
 Quoting: calin


All your questions, make it seem like a person can merely manifest the experience based on beliefs, expectations, emotional state, etc.

To me your comparing the NDE state, to a dream. Since in a dream, these factors, can create the experience.

But again, the most important piece, is during the NDE, when they learned of information, that was impossible to know about, but later proven to be true. This shows, it was impossible to have merely manifest based on beliefs, imaginations, emotional state, etc. If this didn't occur, I would also have a very similar viewpoint as you, assuming this may merely be a product of the mind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

In my earlier messages I indicated that it (NDE) is a state of consciousness. Our consciousness remains after death... I believe based on my studies. One can see events in the physical through the conscious awareness when they are clinically dead. That has been proven as you state. Thus learned information in a NDE is understandable.


EDIT... beliefs and actual conscious observations are part of the NDE
hf

Last Edited by calin on 05/19/2013 12:15 PM
..............................
When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself.
..................................
THE SECOND AGREEMENT: "Don't take anything personally. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering." ~ Don Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements
calin

User ID: 14023715
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05/19/2013 12:14 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
...


A physical reaction.
 Quoting: calin


People shouldn't have this burning physical reaction prior to death.

Also this is probably more common than you think:

"I'm a surgical nurse at a hospital in Phoenix, Arizona. We have lots of near-death cases there, and almost all of them are the negative kind. You know what I mean --people who end up in HELL!" - Journal of Near-Death Studies Vol.10, No.3
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559


You are a fun one! haha...But I do have to leave to get on with my day.

Physical feelings can be attributed to a person dying. I mean really physical. Just as people feel cold when they are in shock.

At the time of dying in your example...the person was not brain dead. I thought we were speaking of brain dead...legally dead people with NDEs.

About this from your quote.... people who end up in HELL! This gave me a chuckle! How does this nurse know they went to hell? That is too funny. Do we know that they are clinically dead? Was this an observation? Was this a real clinical study she did? Did she perceive their experience as such? Hardly scientific. Saying such a thing does not make it true.
 Quoting: calin


A physical feeling of being 'burned'?

Anyways I enjoyed your positive energy.

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

smiles ***

Being burned.. physical experience... the person was not brain dead.
..............................
When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself.
..................................
THE SECOND AGREEMENT: "Don't take anything personally. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering." ~ Don Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33814559
United States
05/19/2013 12:18 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality

...


That's a good theory, but there are cases which shows this assumption is false.

There are some that end up in a hellish NDE, but still felt themselves to be a good person. So they were in a good emotional state, but still went there.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559


Ah yes... so true!

Question... did they believe in a heaven and hell? Did they believe that they had to confess their sins before dying?

Did they have deep feelings of guilt? Shame? And if so, would they consciously and verbally express those emotions? Are they buried so deep that they can't forgive themselves?

One can think and express that they are good, but do they truly feel they love themselves, are a value to humanity, have compassion for others and themselves? Do they self inflict negative feeling on themselves for their actions, behaviors, etc.?? We are harder on ourselves than on others at times.

We really don't know much about this person you are speaking about? Is this person honest wit themselves?

Too many scenarios to take that as fact. But.... good point and I know about these cases. Doesn't make the assumption as you say false.

hf
 Quoting: calin


EDIT... beliefs and actually conscious observations are part of the NDE
hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559


False

:)

Here's why

There are cases of Chinese orphans, and a chinese couple, that were shown in an OBE / vision, were shown specific information that was in known in the Bible.

After the experiences, they then learned the information was in the Bible.

So, the experience was not based on their beliefs.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33814559
United States
05/19/2013 12:24 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
...


People shouldn't have this burning physical reaction prior to death.

Also this is probably more common than you think:

"I'm a surgical nurse at a hospital in Phoenix, Arizona. We have lots of near-death cases there, and almost all of them are the negative kind. You know what I mean --people who end up in HELL!" - Journal of Near-Death Studies Vol.10, No.3
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559


You are a fun one! haha...But I do have to leave to get on with my day.

Physical feelings can be attributed to a person dying. I mean really physical. Just as people feel cold when they are in shock.

At the time of dying in your example...the person was not brain dead. I thought we were speaking of brain dead...legally dead people with NDEs.

About this from your quote.... people who end up in HELL! This gave me a chuckle! How does this nurse know they went to hell? That is too funny. Do we know that they are clinically dead? Was this an observation? Was this a real clinical study she did? Did she perceive their experience as such? Hardly scientific. Saying such a thing does not make it true.
 Quoting: calin


A physical feeling of being 'burned'?

Anyways I enjoyed your positive energy.

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

smiles ***

Being burned.. physical experience... the person was not brain dead.
 Quoting: calin


Here's another testimony, that's a bit more specific, regarding the 'burn':

A respiratory nurse who works in an emergency room told me about a patient who had gone “code red” – he flat lined. She and some other medical personnel rushed over with the defibrillator to try and bring him back to life. They applied the paddles and revived him. She said that he started screaming and shouting “the heat, the heat!” then his heart stopped again. They brought him back a second time. He shouted “The flames, the flames!” They lost him again. Four times the man flat lined and was brought back, each time shouting about the heat or the flames.
After the last time, he died and they could not bring him back. She said all the doctors and nurses just stood there for a few minutes and stared at the body. They all knew that man went to hell.

- Mark Cahill – Book: One Heartbeat Away
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33560264
United States
05/19/2013 12:31 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
negative/postive experiences are both subjective.

If an unconscious person is confronted with all their buried emotions, they will feel sad and will not know why. In turn, labeling the experience negative.

A conscious person would realize that these emotions are their own that have not been dealt with and are surfacing to be healed. creating a healing, positive experience.
 Quoting: sssss


Very false...


I died 3 times and had 3 different occurrences. NONE involved jesus or ANY religious figure. The feeling of peace / okay'ness was great though. The three different timed (all in same day though) events involved a group of people I'm unaware of who they were waiting on me, floating over a galaxy and 'knowing' there are multi verses and more of us out there.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14459648
Canada
05/19/2013 12:54 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
What idiots!
Lets try and kill ourself enuf to experience
What u can EXACTLY DO with DMT?????????,

Go watch " the spirit molecule"
Accidental ir not
U can go there TODAY for about ten mins!

Fuck the trauma anddrama
Go hang out with those who sing things into creation ... Meet the lady who welcomes you
Home by touching your third eye

Do some research on DMT
As it IS where u come from - the spark of dmt released at birth - and the chemical released
Upon death

The people who do this are called Shamans
Thos who walk between life and death
On and with purpose!
See Terrence McKenna
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33814559
United States
05/19/2013 01:01 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
What idiots!
Lets try and kill ourself enuf to experience
What u can EXACTLY DO with DMT?????????,

Go watch " the spirit molecule"
Accidental ir not
U can go there TODAY for about ten mins!

Fuck the trauma anddrama
Go hang out with those who sing things into creation ... Meet the lady who welcomes you
Home by touching your third eye

Do some research on DMT
As it IS where u come from - the spark of dmt released at birth - and the chemical released
Upon death

The people who do this are called Shamans
Thos who walk between life and death
On and with purpose!
See Terrence McKenna
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14459648


Typical elements, of an NDE is tunnel of light, seeing the deceased, having a life review, etc.

Research the experiences of those who do DMT, or a hallucinogen, and you'll see the experiences are different, and don't have these same common elements.

And yes, I'm very well aware of Rick Straussman's work, and have personally tried a hallucinogen.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33560264
United States
05/19/2013 02:27 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
What idiots!
Lets try and kill ourself enuf to experience
What u can EXACTLY DO with DMT?????????,

Go watch " the spirit molecule"
Accidental ir not
U can go there TODAY for about ten mins!

Fuck the trauma anddrama
Go hang out with those who sing things into creation ... Meet the lady who welcomes you
Home by touching your third eye

Do some research on DMT
As it IS where u come from - the spark of dmt released at birth - and the chemical released
Upon death

The people who do this are called Shamans
Thos who walk between life and death
On and with purpose!
See Terrence McKenna
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14459648


There's a large difference.

Death- You're exiting this vibration and moving to a new one, preparations are made / being made for your arrival there.

DMT- You get a glimpse of the other vibrations.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35736177
Spain
05/19/2013 03:01 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
When you die you die,
You can not see without your eyes and your eyes are attached to your biological computer. So if you wore to leave your computer and go into the "afterlife" you would not hear, see, smell nor touch ANYTHING. Since those senses are still in your decayed body. Seriously stop being so f****** stupid and just accept the notion that Annunakis created us in their liking then left for some reason letting the Reptilians and greys parasite on our frail minds.

And by afterlife you might mean awarness/consciousness.

You can only be aware when you have a computer to enter, but since consciousness resides in the right hemisphere of your brain (can link proof if needed). That destroyes the notion of an afterlife and that is just for people who are in desperate need for salvation.

Check my text does it resonate truth, accept it as your new perception of reality or stay in your old either way you will not go into an "afterlife". sorry.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30746069


Staunchly disagree. Reason? Personal experiences.
 Quoting: AkashicRecord


By the way, your sig about DMT and the Akashic reminds me.

I know some state, the NDE, is nothing but a DMT experience. But notice when someone takes a hallucinogen or DMT. If you read their experiences, and compare it to an NDE, it's distinctly different. For example in an NDE, some common elements, are the tunnel of light, life review, seeing the deceased in a heavenly location. For those who straight up take DMT, the experience is much more varied, and don't have these elements.

I personally tried a hallucinogen, awhile back, and I certainly didn't have an experience similar to an NDE.

Also regarding the akashic records, I know Edgar Cayce spoke about this a lot. I use to study his works heavily. What made me begin to doubt his works, is when his multiple predictions never came about, which he gave for specific years in the past.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

If he got his information from the "astral" you can be almost be sure he is getting disinfo.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35736177
Spain
05/19/2013 03:17 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
False

:)

Here's why

There are cases of Chinese orphans, and a chinese couple, that were shown in an OBE / vision, were shown specific information that was in known in the Bible.

After the experiences, they then learned the information was in the Bible.

So, the experience was not based on their beliefs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

They likely got ungrounded then exposed to "info" from the "astral" subreality's Belief System Territories which are but collectively reinforced illusory "worlds". Some Out of Body Experiencers have seen such stuff.
Anonymous Coward
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Spain
05/19/2013 03:18 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
As a side note, OOBErs have "seen" BSTs that were relative to belief systems of all kind.
calin

User ID: 14023715
United States
05/19/2013 05:04 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality

...


Ah yes... so true!

Question... did they believe in a heaven and hell? Did they believe that they had to confess their sins before dying?

Did they have deep feelings of guilt? Shame? And if so, would they consciously and verbally express those emotions? Are they buried so deep that they can't forgive themselves?

One can think and express that they are good, but do they truly feel they love themselves, are a value to humanity, have compassion for others and themselves? Do they self inflict negative feeling on themselves for their actions, behaviors, etc.?? We are harder on ourselves than on others at times.

We really don't know much about this person you are speaking about? Is this person honest wit themselves?

Too many scenarios to take that as fact. But.... good point and I know about these cases. Doesn't make the assumption as you say false.

hf
 Quoting: calin


EDIT... beliefs and actually conscious observations are part of the NDE
hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559


False

:)

Here's why

There are cases of Chinese orphans, and a chinese couple, that were shown in an OBE / vision, were shown specific information that was in known in the Bible.

After the experiences, they then learned the information was in the Bible.

So, the experience was not based on their beliefs.
 Quoting: calin


Yes... I am agreeing... again: beliefs and actual conscious observations are part of the NDE
..............................
When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself.
..................................
THE SECOND AGREEMENT: "Don't take anything personally. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering." ~ Don Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements
calin

User ID: 14023715
United States
05/19/2013 05:10 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
...


You are a fun one! haha...But I do have to leave to get on with my day.

Physical feelings can be attributed to a person dying. I mean really physical. Just as people feel cold when they are in shock.

At the time of dying in your example...the person was not brain dead. I thought we were speaking of brain dead...legally dead people with NDEs.

About this from your quote.... people who end up in HELL! This gave me a chuckle! How does this nurse know they went to hell? That is too funny. Do we know that they are clinically dead? Was this an observation? Was this a real clinical study she did? Did she perceive their experience as such? Hardly scientific. Saying such a thing does not make it true.
 Quoting: calin


A physical feeling of being 'burned'?

Anyways I enjoyed your positive energy.

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

smiles ***

Being burned.. physical experience... the person was not brain dead.
 Quoting: calin


Here's another testimony, that's a bit more specific, regarding the 'burn':

A respiratory nurse who works in an emergency room told me about a patient who had gone “code red” – he flat lined. She and some other medical personnel rushed over with the defibrillator to try and bring him back to life. They applied the paddles and revived him. She said that he started screaming and shouting “the heat, the heat!” then his heart stopped again. They brought him back a second time. He shouted “The flames, the flames!” They lost him again. Four times the man flat lined and was brought back, each time shouting about the heat or the flames.
After the last time, he died and they could not bring him back. She said all the doctors and nurses just stood there for a few minutes and stared at the body. They all knew that man went to hell.

- Mark Cahill – Book: One Heartbeat Away
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

About Mark Cahill's book... [link to www.amazon.com]

Sounds like he is pumping for his religion.

I wouldn't read it myself.
..............................
When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself.
..................................
THE SECOND AGREEMENT: "Don't take anything personally. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering." ~ Don Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements
calin

User ID: 14023715
United States
05/19/2013 05:11 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
negative/postive experiences are both subjective.

If an unconscious person is confronted with all their buried emotions, they will feel sad and will not know why. In turn, labeling the experience negative.

A conscious person would realize that these emotions are their own that have not been dealt with and are surfacing to be healed. creating a healing, positive experience.
 Quoting: sssss


Very false...


I died 3 times and had 3 different occurrences. NONE involved jesus or ANY religious figure. The feeling of peace / okay'ness was great though. The three different timed (all in same day though) events involved a group of people I'm unaware of who they were waiting on me, floating over a galaxy and 'knowing' there are multi verses and more of us out there.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33560264


I appreciate your sharing of that experience. thanks! ;)
..............................
When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself.
..................................
THE SECOND AGREEMENT: "Don't take anything personally. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering." ~ Don Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements
sssss

User ID: 40134546
Australia
05/19/2013 08:33 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
negative/postive experiences are both subjective.

If an unconscious person is confronted with all their buried emotions, they will feel sad and will not know why. In turn, labeling the experience negative.

A conscious person would realize that these emotions are their own that have not been dealt with and are surfacing to be healed. creating a healing, positive experience.
 Quoting: sssss


Very false...


I died 3 times and had 3 different occurrences. NONE involved jesus or ANY religious figure. The feeling of peace / okay'ness was great though. The three different timed (all in same day though) events involved a group of people I'm unaware of who they were waiting on me, floating over a galaxy and 'knowing' there are multi verses and more of us out there.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33560264


I appreciate your sharing of that experience. thanks! ;)
 Quoting: calin


LOL, my statement is not at all false, just directed at a different aspect of this phenomenon. I have also had a NDE and experienced exactly what you described ;)
THE CHANGE IS COMING!
Spiritual Guidance, Spirit Guide communication, Shamanism & Kundalini.
Anonymous Coward
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05/19/2013 08:51 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
OP: 'Share me with one single case, where a Christian saw Buddha in his NDE, and then converted to Buddhism.'

No. I don't need to prove anything to you. LOL, I thought you would at least ask me to prove my talking toaster reference!

The point is this: you are not arguing with me. You made an assertion in the OP, which you must prove, or not. My comments are backed by science, with whom you are at odds. You are arguing with science, okay?

Remember my comments about the nature of the NDE according to scientific understanding? You must do your own research and not by demanding that I do it for you. My personal experience also mirrors the science- can you believe that? I have seen things you wouldn't believe. I am in touch with dreamers, the like of which you also wouldn't believe, but it's true- and all of it backed by empirical scientific review. There isn't a scientist in these fields who would refute anything I say, unless they had reason to believe that I was lying.
OP
User ID: 40114638
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05/19/2013 10:07 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
OP: 'Share me with one single case, where a Christian saw Buddha in his NDE, and then converted to Buddhism.'

No. I don't need to prove anything to you. LOL, I thought you would at least ask me to prove my talking toaster reference!

The point is this: you are not arguing with me. You made an assertion in the OP, which you must prove, or not. My comments are backed by science, with whom you are at odds. You are arguing with science, okay?

Remember my comments about the nature of the NDE according to scientific understanding? You must do your own research and not by demanding that I do it for you. My personal experience also mirrors the science- can you believe that? I have seen things you wouldn't believe. I am in touch with dreamers, the like of which you also wouldn't believe, but it's true- and all of it backed by empirical scientific review. There isn't a scientist in these fields who would refute anything I say, unless they had reason to believe that I was lying.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35435318


OP here,

First let address your original post.

When I stated, 'Regarding this phenomenon and current supernatural encounters with Jesus, so far I'm finding this only occurs with Jesus.'

I'm not talking about NDEs.

I'm talking about, another category of experiences, and this is when Jesus appears to be people when they're fully wide awake.

This, is something I've noticed occurred with only Jesus.

I can back this up with multiple cases. If I'm wrong, show me actual 'scientific evidence', or an 'empirical' study', that shows I'm wrong.

Instead of merely lying stating you have evidence to back up this claim.
OP
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05/19/2013 10:09 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
...


A physical feeling of being 'burned'?

Anyways I enjoyed your positive energy.

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

smiles ***

Being burned.. physical experience... the person was not brain dead.
 Quoting: calin


Here's another testimony, that's a bit more specific, regarding the 'burn':

A respiratory nurse who works in an emergency room told me about a patient who had gone “code red” – he flat lined. She and some other medical personnel rushed over with the defibrillator to try and bring him back to life. They applied the paddles and revived him. She said that he started screaming and shouting “the heat, the heat!” then his heart stopped again. They brought him back a second time. He shouted “The flames, the flames!” They lost him again. Four times the man flat lined and was brought back, each time shouting about the heat or the flames.
After the last time, he died and they could not bring him back. She said all the doctors and nurses just stood there for a few minutes and stared at the body. They all knew that man went to hell.

- Mark Cahill – Book: One Heartbeat Away
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

About Mark Cahill's book... [link to www.amazon.com]

Sounds like he is pumping for his religion.

I wouldn't read it myself.
 Quoting: calin


That's one of multiple cases, who also state, they're feeling, and seeing flames at death.
OP
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05/19/2013 10:10 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality

...


EDIT... beliefs and actually conscious observations are part of the NDE
hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559


False

:)

Here's why

There are cases of Chinese orphans, and a chinese couple, that were shown in an OBE / vision, were shown specific information that was in known in the Bible.

After the experiences, they then learned the information was in the Bible.

So, the experience was not based on their beliefs.
 Quoting: calin


Yes... I am agreeing... again: beliefs and actual conscious observations are part of the NDE
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559


So, when people in NDEs, go to a heavenly realm, and see the deceased, do you think, this was their belief, that they would see this,

Or, do you think this was a real observation?
OP
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05/19/2013 10:25 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
When you die you die,
You can not see without your eyes and your eyes are attached to your biological computer. So if you wore to leave your computer and go into the "afterlife" you would not hear, see, smell nor touch ANYTHING. Since those senses are still in your decayed body. Seriously stop being so f****** stupid and just accept the notion that Annunakis created us in their liking then left for some reason letting the Reptilians and greys parasite on our frail minds.

And by afterlife you might mean awarness/consciousness.

You can only be aware when you have a computer to enter, but since consciousness resides in the right hemisphere of your brain (can link proof if needed). That destroyes the notion of an afterlife and that is just for people who are in desperate need for salvation.

Check my text does it resonate truth, accept it as your new perception of reality or stay in your old either way you will not go into an "afterlife". sorry.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30746069


Staunchly disagree. Reason? Personal experiences.
 Quoting: AkashicRecord


By the way, your sig about DMT and the Akashic reminds me.

I know some state, the NDE, is nothing but a DMT experience. But notice when someone takes a hallucinogen or DMT. If you read their experiences, and compare it to an NDE, it's distinctly different. For example in an NDE, some common elements, are the tunnel of light, life review, seeing the deceased in a heavenly location. For those who straight up take DMT, the experience is much more varied, and don't have these elements.

I personally tried a hallucinogen, awhile back, and I certainly didn't have an experience similar to an NDE.

Also regarding the akashic records, I know Edgar Cayce spoke about this a lot. I use to study his works heavily. What made me begin to doubt his works, is when his multiple predictions never came about, which he gave for specific years in the past.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

If he got his information from the "astral" you can be almost be sure he is getting disinfo.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35736177


I do partly agree.

There are other possibilities.

He made a lot of specific predictions for past years, that never came true that he supposedly channeled from various spirits.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

But the years past, and the predictions didn't come true.

So, he could have as you said received disinfo. I do believe in negative and demonic entities, and they wanting to deceive people.

Some other possibilities, he was lying, or merely delusional, in thinking, he was hearing from spirits.

By the way Cayce, he also speaks of and 'channels' info from spirits on Christ Consciousness, which Calin mentioned. But due to his failed predictions from so-called higher spirits, I now don't give his teaching much weight.
Anonymous Coward
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05/19/2013 10:42 PM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
False

:)

Here's why

There are cases of Chinese orphans, and a chinese couple, that were shown in an OBE / vision, were shown specific information that was in known in the Bible.

After the experiences, they then learned the information was in the Bible.

So, the experience was not based on their beliefs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

They likely got ungrounded then exposed to "info" from the "astral" subreality's Belief System Territories which are but collectively reinforced illusory "worlds". Some Out of Body Experiencers have seen such stuff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35736177


Here's why I don't completely agree with this.

There are millions of Muslims, that believe in the 72 virgins, given to a man in the afterlife.

I looked over the NDEs of Muslims, and they don't see this.
OP
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05/20/2013 12:49 AM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
Let me elaborate, the 2 primary messages I'm coming across, during the NDEs

1) We need to be kind, loving, helpful to all.

2) We also need to accept Jesus. This is learned by some NDErs, who experience hell.

So, do you

A) be kind and loving to all, and not accept Jesus

B) Accept Jesus, but not be kind to others

C) Do both
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559


The christian gnostics were aligned with & practicing the true teachings
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Let me add, the Gnostics, like the Muslims, believe in a version of Jesus, in which he was never crucified.

There have been not only NDEs, but also, supernatural encounters with Jesus, when people were fully wide awake. And these people saw the crucifixion wounds of Jesus.

So this does not support Gnostic beliefs.

Again, this also included Muslims seeing Jesus with crucifixioun wounds, which is contrary to their beliefs about Jesus, in the Quran. After Muslims saw this, they left Islam, and converted to Christianity.

Also, many of the Gnostic books, were dated around the 2nd to the 4th century AD, versus some bible books that were dated to the first century AD.
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05/20/2013 01:31 AM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
...


False

There are cases, where the person are told, that it's Jesus.

In addition, they see the crucifixion wounds of Jesus. This is especially significant with Muslims, who saw this. Since Islam, teaches that Jesus was never crucified. After the experience, the Muslim left Islam and converted to Christianity. This occurred with many Muslims.

The same can't be said with Christians, who saw Muhammad and converted to Islam. Since both Christians, and Muslims, haven's seen Muhammad in their NDEs, from what I came across so far.

In addition, Christians, or any other religious group, in their NDEs, haven't seen Isa, the Jesus version in the Quran, and then converted to Islam.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559


If that be the case, and I haven't read one case like that, since history proves "Jesus" is NOT a legitimate character, then the entire picture is a lie. From this point it has to be established if the individual case is a fraud, or it is all a fraud. There is no "Jesus" of "God". All religion is nothing more than very old made up interpretations of life.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37142853


They found homes, prior to 50 AD, that had alters with crosses on them. Doesn't sound like history disproved Jesus, with absolute certainty.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33814559

All I'm saying is that 1) this "end times event" was supposed to have happened 2000 years ago, and it didn't
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37142853


But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father - Matthew 24:36
Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2013 01:47 AM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
In 1990, however, Rick Strassman, a psychiatrist at the University of New Mexico, obtained permission from federal authorities to inject DMT into human volunteers. Strassman, a Buddhist, suspected that endogenous DMT might contribute to mystical experiences. From 1990 to 1995, he supervised more than 400 DMT sessions involving 60 subjects at the University of New Mexico. Many subjects reported that they dissolved blissfully into a radiant light or sensed the presence of a powerful, god-like being.

On the other hand, 25 subjects underwent what Strassman called “adverse effects,” including terrifying hallucinations of “aliens” that took the shape of robots, insects or reptiles. Some subjects remained convinced that these aliens were real in spite of Strassman’s efforts to convince them otherwise. In part out of concern about these adverse effects, Strassman discontinued his research, which he describes in his 2000 book DMT: The Spirit Molecule.

[link to www.scientificamerican.com]

God is the the greatest scientist.
Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2013 01:48 AM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
DMT occurs naturally in the human brain
OP
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05/20/2013 01:56 AM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
In 1990, however, Rick Strassman, a psychiatrist at the University of New Mexico, obtained permission from federal authorities to inject DMT into human volunteers. Strassman, a Buddhist, suspected that endogenous DMT might contribute to mystical experiences. From 1990 to 1995, he supervised more than 400 DMT sessions involving 60 subjects at the University of New Mexico. Many subjects reported that they dissolved blissfully into a radiant light or sensed the presence of a powerful, god-like being.

On the other hand, 25 subjects underwent what Strassman called “adverse effects,” including terrifying hallucinations of “aliens” that took the shape of robots, insects or reptiles. Some subjects remained convinced that these aliens were real in spite of Strassman’s efforts to convince them otherwise. In part out of concern about these adverse effects, Strassman discontinued his research, which he describes in his 2000 book DMT: The Spirit Molecule.

[link to www.scientificamerican.com]
God is the the greatest scientist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40149509


Many who have an NDE, experience a life review, and among other things as well.

I looked over many accounts of those who take DMT, and they don't have a life review.

The two experiences are therefore different.
Anonymous Coward
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05/20/2013 11:47 AM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
Let me add, the Gnostics, like the Muslims, believe in a version of Jesus, in which he was never crucified.

There have been not only NDEs, but also, supernatural encounters with Jesus, when people were fully wide awake. And these people saw the crucifixion wounds of Jesus.

So this does not support Gnostic beliefs.

Again, this also included Muslims seeing Jesus with crucifixioun wounds, which is contrary to their beliefs about Jesus, in the Quran. After Muslims saw this, they left Islam, and converted to Christianity.

Also, many of the Gnostic books, were dated around the 2nd to the 4th century AD, versus some bible books that were dated to the first century AD.
 Quoting: OP 40114638

Crucifixion wounds without a physical body? How come?
OP
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05/20/2013 11:56 AM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
Let me add, the Gnostics, like the Muslims, believe in a version of Jesus, in which he was never crucified.

There have been not only NDEs, but also, supernatural encounters with Jesus, when people were fully wide awake. And these people saw the crucifixion wounds of Jesus.

So this does not support Gnostic beliefs.

Again, this also included Muslims seeing Jesus with crucifixioun wounds, which is contrary to their beliefs about Jesus, in the Quran. After Muslims saw this, they left Islam, and converted to Christianity.

Also, many of the Gnostic books, were dated around the 2nd to the 4th century AD, versus some bible books that were dated to the first century AD.
 Quoting: OP 40114638

Crucifixion wounds without a physical body? How come?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35736177


Here's a couple of speculations.

It was to remind us of his love and sacrifice for us.

Or as with Thomas in the Bible, the wounds allowed Thomas to more clearly identify him.
Anonymous Coward
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05/23/2013 08:57 AM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
OP: 'I'm not talking about NDEs.

I'm talking about, another category of experiences, and this is when Jesus appears to be people when they're fully wide awake.

This, is something I've noticed occurred with only Jesus.

I can back this up with multiple cases. If I'm wrong, show me actual 'scientific evidence', or an 'empirical' study', that shows I'm wrong.
'

Yes, and I pointed out how all these experiences are inherently the same thing. Backed by science, the information is there if you look it up. I am under no onus to do your research for you.

I'm telling you that you're wrong and I don't have to prove it to you. Science has already proved it. Your anecdotal evidence notwithstanding, religion has failed to provide the answers that a basic understanding of science already does.
OP
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05/24/2013 12:09 AM
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Re: Why NDEs are more than hallucinations, and connecting the dots revealing a single coherent reality
OP: 'I'm not talking about NDEs.

I'm talking about, another category of experiences, and this is when Jesus appears to be people when they're fully wide awake.

This, is something I've noticed occurred with only Jesus.

I can back this up with multiple cases. If I'm wrong, show me actual 'scientific evidence', or an 'empirical' study', that shows I'm wrong.
'

Yes, and I pointed out how all these experiences are inherently the same thing. Backed by science, the information is there if you look it up. I am under no onus to do your research for you.

I'm telling you that you're wrong and I don't have to prove it to you. Science has already proved it. Your anecdotal evidence notwithstanding, religion has failed to provide the answers that a basic understanding of science already does.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35435318


Once again, another person states, he has scientific evidence to refute my claims.

But can't actually provide any evidence.

Lying, doesn't win arguments





GLP