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Right to Travel vs. Secure Borders

 
Nancy (Lazaryan) Hutchison
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User ID: 32983814
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06/09/2013 10:12 AM
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Right to Travel vs. Secure Borders
How do you solve this dilemma?

A drivers license is required to operate a motor vehicle upon the streets.
A license is something that you get when you "ask permission" to do something.
We as Citizens have the Right to Travel, free movement upon the land. We don't need to ask permission to use the streets.

The drivers license seemed like a good idea, as some people were abusing the Right to Travel by endangering others who also used the streets. It was first meant to be a proficiency test so that people knew how to safely use the streets.
Then, it was used to remove those from the streets that were deemed dangerous to others using the streets (such as drunk drivers).

There are now "random checks" along the roads. People are stopped and asked different questions by law enforcement authorities. At times the questions are about drinking, some times to see if you have illegal produce (fruit police) and other times to check your identity (to see if you are an illegal alien).

And the whole drivers license thing has become way more that just making sure people are driving safely. If you don't pay your child support, ALL your licenses (driving and professional) can be taken from you.

There are videos on Youtube with people refusing to answer questions at these random check points. And there is advice by defense attorneys to NEVER answer a question that is asked of you by police. Plus, the "illegal aliens" are being coached to "shut up", don't say a word if you are stopped by police.

How do you balance another person's Right to Travel and your Right to Life (not getting killed by a drunk driver)? In the old days, if you came into town with your wagon and horses, and you lost control of the horses (say, you were drunk), and killed someone -- you were charged with manslaughter.

If we want our borders to be secure, and the borders are not... how would you solve the problem? Previously, the states handled immigration. But now it is the feds. And, it is much easier to travel with cars than with wagons.

We are a young country. A very large country, with a mix of immigrants (legal and illegal), children (grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc) of immigrants and slaves and Native Americans.

We need to find balance.
Nancy (Lazaryan) Hutchison  (OP)

User ID: 32983814
United States
06/09/2013 10:21 AM
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Re: Right to Travel vs. Secure Borders
bump
Mr. Miracle

User ID: 28969196
United States
06/09/2013 10:29 AM
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Re: Right to Travel vs. Secure Borders
Easy. You do what should be done for every crime, large and small. Establish set penalties and enforce them. The problem is not that TPTB are abusing the law, it's that the laws are so convoluted and tangled that they CAN abuse the laws. You can now be stopped for just about anything, and TPTB can get away with it. In this case, drunk driving. Ok, how many times have we seen a case where someone kills a family by DUI, driving the wrong way up a street? When that happens, there should be an immediate and consistent response. No appeals, no "driving school", no pleading to a lesser charge.
I myself like the Biblical "eye for an eye" idea. Someone crashes into a family at 85MPH, and a member of that family gets thrown through the windshield, losing their leg and lying there bleeding for 20 min., have the perp go through the same thing. Have him lye in the road, cut his leg off, and wait 20 min. until helping him. I guarantee that DUI would go down. Same with rape, abuse, molestation, and murder. Also, with "white collar" crimes, like bilking a senior out of their life savings. I think Heinlein got that right. Oh, and also, if a lawyer defends someone, they lose, they get to go through the same punishment. That should weed out the shysters that know their clients guilty, but do it for the money. Public defenders would be exempt.
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
ohnonotagain

User ID: 39734523
United States
06/09/2013 10:44 AM
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Re: Right to Travel vs. Secure Borders
How do you solve this dilemma?

A drivers license is required to operate a motor vehicle upon the streets.
A license is something that you get when you "ask permission" to do something.
We as Citizens have the Right to Travel, free movement upon the land. We don't need to ask permission to use the streets.

The drivers license seemed like a good idea, as some people were abusing the Right to Travel by endangering others who also used the streets. It was first meant to be a proficiency test so that people knew how to safely use the streets.
Then, it was used to remove those from the streets that were deemed dangerous to others using the streets (such as drunk drivers).

There are now "random checks" along the roads. People are stopped and asked different questions by law enforcement authorities. At times the questions are about drinking, some times to see if you have illegal produce (fruit police) and other times to check your identity (to see if you are an illegal alien).

And the whole drivers license thing has become way more that just making sure people are driving safely. If you don't pay your child support, ALL your licenses (driving and professional) can be taken from you.

There are videos on Youtube with people refusing to answer questions at these random check points. And there is advice by defense attorneys to NEVER answer a question that is asked of you by police. Plus, the "illegal aliens" are being coached to "shut up", don't say a word if you are stopped by police.

How do you balance another person's Right to Travel and your Right to Life (not getting killed by a drunk driver)? In the old days, if you came into town with your wagon and horses, and you lost control of the horses (say, you were drunk), and killed someone -- you were charged with manslaughter.

If we want our borders to be secure, and the borders are not... how would you solve the problem? Previously, the states handled immigration. But now it is the feds. And, it is much easier to travel with cars than with wagons.

We are a young country. A very large country, with a mix of immigrants (legal and illegal), children (grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc) of immigrants and slaves and Native Americans.

We need to find balance.
 Quoting: Nancy (Lazaryan) Hutchison


Basically, what you've listed above is a small sample of how TPTB have stacked the deck against the people.

They have taken a very simple solution and turned it into a very complex nightmare.

We now need a team of Lawyers to defend us against the volumes & volumes of laws passed to reduce the populous from Free Sovereigns to common citizens/criminals/slaves. They have made the legal system into an industry, churning out criminals by the second. And We the People embrace it all in the name of security. We feel warm & fuzzy, able to sleep at night knowing our masters are on the lookout for us.

There is one law that is needed to cover everything in a free society, No Harm No Foul.
If you do not harm a person &/or their property, no law has been broken, period.

But, in a Government controlled society, or Slave State, you need these laws to control.

What are we, Free Sovereigns or common citizens/criminals/slaves?
"The Tree of Liberty is Thirsty and needs Watering"

-Me
ohnonotagain

User ID: 39734523
United States
06/09/2013 10:50 AM
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Re: Right to Travel vs. Secure Borders
Easy. You do what should be done for every crime, large and small. Establish set penalties and enforce them. The problem is not that TPTB are abusing the law, it's that the laws are so convoluted and tangled that they CAN abuse the laws. You can now be stopped for just about anything, and TPTB can get away with it. In this case, drunk driving. Ok, how many times have we seen a case where someone kills a family by DUI, driving the wrong way up a street? When that happens, there should be an immediate and consistent response. No appeals, no "driving school", no pleading to a lesser charge.
I myself like the Biblical "eye for an eye" idea. Someone crashes into a family at 85MPH, and a member of that family gets thrown through the windshield, losing their leg and lying there bleeding for 20 min., have the perp go through the same thing. Have him lye in the road, cut his leg off, and wait 20 min. until helping him. I guarantee that DUI would go down. Same with rape, abuse, molestation, and murder. Also, with "white collar" crimes, like bilking a senior out of their life savings. I think Heinlein got that right. Oh, and also, if a lawyer defends someone, they lose, they get to go through the same punishment. That should weed out the shysters that know their clients guilty, but do it for the money. Public defenders would be exempt.
 Quoting: Mr. Miracle


OMG, I think your world would be just as fucked up as the one we have now.

You really need to embrace those emotions and even maybe think about addressing the anger you have inside.

WOW!
"The Tree of Liberty is Thirsty and needs Watering"

-Me
Nancy (Lazaryan) Hutchison  (OP)

User ID: 32983814
United States
06/09/2013 10:57 AM
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Re: Right to Travel vs. Secure Borders
Easy. You do what should be done for every crime, large and small. Establish set penalties and enforce them. The problem is not that TPTB are abusing the law, it's that the laws are so convoluted and tangled that they CAN abuse the laws. You can now be stopped for just about anything, and TPTB can get away with it. In this case, drunk driving. Ok, how many times have we seen a case where someone kills a family by DUI, driving the wrong way up a street? When that happens, there should be an immediate and consistent response. No appeals, no "driving school", no pleading to a lesser charge.
I myself like the Biblical "eye for an eye" idea. Someone crashes into a family at 85MPH, and a member of that family gets thrown through the windshield, losing their leg and lying there bleeding for 20 min., have the perp go through the same thing. Have him lye in the road, cut his leg off, and wait 20 min. until helping him. I guarantee that DUI would go down. Same with rape, abuse, molestation, and murder. Also, with "white collar" crimes, like bilking a senior out of their life savings. I think Heinlein got that right. Oh, and also, if a lawyer defends someone, they lose, they get to go through the same punishment. That should weed out the shysters that know their clients guilty, but do it for the money. Public defenders would be exempt.
 Quoting: Mr. Miracle


OMG, I think your world would be just as fucked up as the one we have now.

You really need to embrace those emotions and even maybe think about addressing the anger you have inside.

WOW!
 Quoting: ohnonotagain


You have "rights".
But, if your actions then affect the "rights" of another, what is the consequence?

LAW is the relationship of one thing to another.
If you "act lawfully", then you are in "right relationship" to others and to the Earth.

Who "enforces" the Law, when the Law is broken?
What happens when someone takes away one of your rights?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 32983814
United States
06/09/2013 01:01 PM
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Re: Right to Travel vs. Secure Borders
bump
[email protected]
User ID: 28969196
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06/09/2013 01:40 PM
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Re: Right to Travel vs. Secure Borders


OMG, I think your world would be just as fucked up as the one we have now.

You really need to embrace those emotions and even maybe think about addressing the anger you have inside.

WOW!


I do address the anger inside of me. Every morning I wake up, get out of bed, stare in the mirror, and tell my anger that today is NOT the day to let loose on all the idiots, mouth-breathers, morans, jackasses, and assorted and sundry other twatwaffles, such as yourself, who think they have the right or ability to fuck up my day with no consequence. Just on the commute alone there are enough jackwads to make a body count far higher than any serial killer in history. But I address my anger, telling it "Now, Now, behave yourself, for they know not what they do."
Nancy (Lazaryan) Hutchison  (OP)

User ID: 32983814
United States
06/10/2013 10:44 AM
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Re: Right to Travel vs. Secure Borders
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