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Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah

 
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 09:30 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Revelation Chapter 11




1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.


10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

You saying this applies to 144,000 thousand people? Nonsense. God wouldn't give that awesome power to 144,000 people.

Also, see here,

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

These TWO PROPHETS!!! I rest my case. :)
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 09:32 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
...


Yes but the two witnesses have completely different roles than the 144,000 and should not be compared to each other. The two witnesses are completely distinct from the two witnesses who will have the power over rain, over plagues and will be able to call fire down from heaven to kill those who try and get in their way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


Look at Luke 10:1 again... it's exactly what the 144k will be doing. The miracles that they do in Jesus name (John 14:12) will be witness to those around them that there is POWER in the name of Jesus and that he is our saviour.
 Quoting: Jerichofall


Yes, but the two witnesses are God's end-times Prophets and can not in anyway be compared to the two witnesses. They will not have power to shut the heavens, they will not be invincible like the two witnesses, they will not have any power of the plagues, and they will not be resurrected for all the World to see and fly up to heaven. The two witnesses are given Authority from God Almighty, the 144,000 do not have that same Authority.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


Did you read the article? You didn't did you?? Give it a go... but you're only countering with here say, nothing you've said is backed up from the Word, and I disagree with you opinion. If you're stuck on it fine, be blessed and you can say you shared your view.
 Quoting: Jerichofall


I don't need to. It is rubbish and contradicts the word of God making you a false teacher. And excuse me, yes I have refuted it with the word of God. See my post on page two also.
Jerichofall  (OP)

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06/19/2013 09:35 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
One of the two witnesses is compared with Joshua the high priest as one of the witnesses will also be high priest.

That is a very distinct role and certainly can not be applied to a group of people.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


Said where? If you have an argument go for it but make your case in scripture and not anecdotes.
 Quoting: Jerichofall


The Two Olive Trees:

Revelation 11:4 calls the two witnesses “the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.” This prophecy indicates that the prophecy about the two witnesses is directly linked to (or foreshadowed by) a prophecy in Zechariah 3-4 about two individuals called the “two olive trees.” Since Revelation 11 links the two witnesses to information in Zechariah 3-4’s prophecy, a digression into Zechariah’s prophecy is necessary to understand more about the two witnesses.
The prophecy in Zechariah 3-4 gives the names “Joshua” and “Zerubbabel” to the two men called the “two olive trees” in Zechariah 4:11, and it reveals that they are alive at a time “the foundation of this house” (verse 9) has been laid down. Zechariah and Haggai were two prophets who lived at the time of Ezra and Nehemiah (Ezra 5:1, 6:14), and Zechariah’s prophecy about the “two olive trees” likens them to two of their actual contemporaries who were named Joshua and Zerubbabel. Zerubbabel was a political officer and Joshua was a High Priest at that time (Haggai 1:1, 12). Since the two historic figures called the “two olive trees” are referenced in Revelation 11 as types of the two witnesses, it could indicate that one of the two witnesses will have a political background while the other “witness” will have a priestly/ministerial background.
Zechariah 4:6 states that Zerubbabel’s power will flow from God’s Holy Spirit. This is consistent with Revelation 11:3 that God’s power will energize the two witnesses at the time of their calling. Verse 7 prophesies that a “great mountain” will become “a plain” before Zerubbabel. Mountains are used in prophecies as types of human nations (Isaiah 1:1-4 is one such example). Zerubbabel will be able to turn “a great mountain” (a very powerful nation or alliance of nations) into “a plain.” In other words, God’s power will be so strong in Zerubbabel that the military power of mighty nations (or the “beast” power” of Revelation) will be “leveled” before Zerubbabel. No human military power will be able to stand before the Divine power that will flow through the Two Witnesses. Zerubbabel had been involved in “laying the foundation of the house” (i.e. an earlier Temple) in Zechariah 4:9, which may indicate that one of the two witnesses will be involved with the effort to build a temple of God in Jerusalem in the latter days, and that these efforts will proceed from a time of very humble beginnings (“the day of small things” in Zechariah 4:10). Zerubbabel uses a “plummet,” a tool used in construction measurements. This parallels the fact that the two witnesses will emerge at a time the latter-day temple is being “measured” (Revelation 11:1-2).
Zechariah 3 is a prophecy about “Joshua,” the other “olive tree” of this prophecy and a type of the other “witness” of Revelation 11. Zechariah 3:1 mentions that Joshua was serving as the high priest in Ezra’s time, and Joshua is personified as being between an “the angel of the Lord” and Satan (who is resisting or opposing him). This “Joshua” is at a nexus of a battle being waged between good and bad angels, but the Lord decides the contest in favor of a good outcome. The Lord rebukes Satan from opposing Joshua any further and then likens Joshua to a “brand plucked from the fire.” Joshua is further depicted as being clothed in “filthy garments” as he “stood before an angel.” A “brand plucked from the fire” pictures a stick or branch that is in the process of being ignited or burned in a fire, but which is “plucked” or rescued from the fire so it is not consumed.
This “Joshua” does not emerge unscathed from the spiritual contest between good and evil angels which has raged around him. His “filthy garments” indicate he is in a sinful or personally damaged state when he is “plucked from the fire” and rescued by God. In verses 4-5, God removes Joshua’s “iniquity” and he is figuratively given new, clean garments and a fair miter (the clothing of a priest). In other words, this individual is “cleaned up” or “restored” so he can perform the duties assigned to him by God. In verses 6-8, an angel gives Joshua a charge to walk in God’s ways in order to perform the priestly duties assigned to him. This is not the first time that God has chosen a spiritually-damaged or “unfit” individual to serve him in a prophetic capacity. When Isaiah was called to be a prophet, he protested that he was unworthy because he had “unclean lips” (Isaiah 6:5), and the Apostle Paul had previously been an enemy of God when known by his earlier surname of “Saul” (Acts 8-9).
Zechariah 4:11-14 describe Joshua and Zerubbabel not only as the “two olive trees,” but also as “the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.” [Emphasis added.] This strongly parallels the role of the two witnesses of Revelation 11 who will serve as two “anointed ones” who will wield Divine power in a global ministry in the latter days. The separate descriptions of “Joshua” and “Zerubbabel” apparently give us clues about some aspects of the lives of the two people who will be called by God to be the two witnesses in the latter days. If not, why would God tell us in Revelation 11 that the two witnesses are the “two olive trees” and then give us specific information in Zechariah 3-4 about the two individuals personified in these roles?


And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. Zachariah 3:1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


I think that is not an accurate intepretation of Zerubbabel as one of the two annointed, in fact Zerubbabel is a picture of Messiah in my mind. Look at what it says - mountains made flat, that happens in Revelations when Messiah returns (the mountains are made flat and the islands dissapear). Also Zerrubabbel is described as having the seven eyes running to and fro just like Jesus in Revelation again.

The article I posted demonstrates how the two olive trees (from scripture) are Israel and Judah, the lost tribes, which is why the 144 are made up 12,00 from 12 tribes.

Certainly Zechariah is a great book of prophecy that I have still much to learn from, so appreciate your input here.
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Amos 8:11  Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Ruth 1:1 Now it came to pass in the days when the judges ruled, that there was a famine in the land.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 09:36 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Jerico, I believe the Lord is revealing much info now to His people. Just last week I came to the understanding that the bride, the 144k and the 2 witnesses are all the same group of people.

I was prompted to study the book of revelation in the last 2 weeks and this came to me as a result.

Most will not believe it, and that's ok. It's not your job or my job to convince people of this, just put it out there and leave it up to the Holy Spirit.

Don't fall into debate traps here.....it's a snare.

hf
Balloons

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Denmark
06/19/2013 09:38 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Could it be a metaphor for the, when two or more from the lords house are gathered then...
Please hold still so I can cut your hair long
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 09:40 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
1doh1
bigD111

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06/19/2013 09:42 AM

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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
This is for the good person from Ireland! I also am Irish! Maybe we are related! I am originally from Galway and the family name is on a castle there!
Anyway, what I wanted to say is look at Zechariah! In 3:8, the Lord says
Hear, O Joshua, the high priest,
You and your companions who sit before you,
For they are a wondrous sign;
For behold, I am bringing forth
My Servant the BRANCH

Now, obviously Joshua has a group of people with him, and God is addressing the group. The BRANCH is the 144,000, and this is the priestly portion of it, represented by Joshua.

The Lord in verse 3:2 says to Satan, is this not a brand plucked from the fire? He is talking about Joshua here, as being an ordinary person, not someone like Elijah who was holy his whole life. No, this is someone that God has chosen to save, by His grace.
In 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and was standing before the angel. He goes on to say to take away the filthy garments from him and put a clean turban on him. Then the Lord says " See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes."
Their iniquities will be removed, they will be glorified and justified. Not by their own accomplishments, but all is done by the Lord.
Zechariah then goes on to address the Zerubbabels! They are the Kings that are coming.
deplorably republican
Jerichofall  (OP)

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06/19/2013 09:42 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
...


Look at Luke 10:1 again... it's exactly what the 144k will be doing. The miracles that they do in Jesus name (John 14:12) will be witness to those around them that there is POWER in the name of Jesus and that he is our saviour.
 Quoting: Jerichofall


Yes, but the two witnesses are God's end-times Prophets and can not in anyway be compared to the two witnesses. They will not have power to shut the heavens, they will not be invincible like the two witnesses, they will not have any power of the plagues, and they will not be resurrected for all the World to see and fly up to heaven. The two witnesses are given Authority from God Almighty, the 144,000 do not have that same Authority.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


Did you read the article? You didn't did you?? Give it a go... but you're only countering with here say, nothing you've said is backed up from the Word, and I disagree with you opinion. If you're stuck on it fine, be blessed and you can say you shared your view.
 Quoting: Jerichofall


I don't need to. It is rubbish and contradicts the word of God making you a false teacher. And excuse me, yes I have refuted it with the word of God. See my post on page two also.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


We've gone to 'false teacher' now, ok. 144,000 having the power of the prophets in a world of 7 or 8 billion being unreasonable at the time of the beast preparing to take the mark that will condemn them to the lake of fire, I don't think that is unreasonable. I'm still curious if you read the article, I feel like you brought bias to the table from the get go. At any rate, you can stick with that peace be to you.
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Amos 8:11  Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Ruth 1:1 Now it came to pass in the days when the judges ruled, that there was a famine in the land.
Jerichofall  (OP)

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06/19/2013 09:46 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Jerico, I believe the Lord is revealing much info now to His people. Just last week I came to the understanding that the bride, the 144k and the 2 witnesses are all the same group of people.

I was prompted to study the book of revelation in the last 2 weeks and this came to me as a result.

Most will not believe it, and that's ok. It's not your job or my job to convince people of this, just put it out there and leave it up to the Holy Spirit.

Don't fall into debate traps here.....it's a snare.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Amen sister! I feel the love with you which is why we are brethren, and that's how simple the gospel message can be. We are all children sitting at his feet :) Getting late here now, prayers then sleep, God bless you and everyone who has contributed afro
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Psalm 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Amos 8:11  Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Ruth 1:1 Now it came to pass in the days when the judges ruled, that there was a famine in the land.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 09:47 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Jerico, I believe the Lord is revealing much info now to His people. Just last week I came to the understanding that the bride, the 144k and the 2 witnesses are all the same group of people.

I was prompted to study the book of revelation in the last 2 weeks and this came to me as a result.

Most will not believe it, and that's ok. It's not your job or my job to convince people of this, just put it out there and leave it up to the Holy Spirit.

Don't fall into debate traps here.....it's a snare.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Amen sister! I feel the love with you which is why we are brethren, and that's how simple the gospel message can be. We are all children sitting at his feet :) Getting late here now, prayers then sleep, God bless you and everyone who has contributed afro
 Quoting: Jerichofall


wavewave
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 09:48 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Father has laid some major confirmations on me, on the 6/6/13 I had several about the 144,000. I'm now convinced that these are the two witnesses, sent out like the disciples in pairs of 72 (2 x 72 = 144) to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth in the final tribulation, but they are here now, being prepared and their purpose revealed by our Lord.

LUKE 10:1 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go. 2 And he said to them, "The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. 3 Go your way; behold, I am sending you out as lambs in the midst of wolves. 4 Carry no moneybag, no knapsack, no sandals, and greet no one on the road. 5 Whatever house you enter, first say, 'Peace be to this house!' 6 And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest upon him. But if not, it will return to you. 7 And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the laborer deserves his wages. Do not go from house to house. 8 Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you. 9 Heal the sick in it and say to them, 'The kingdom of God has come near to you.' 10 But whenever you enter a town and they do not receive you, go into its streets and say, 11 'Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near.' " (ESV)

This website article does an amazing job of explaining things:

[link to www.herealittletherealittle.net]

And here is a dream by one spirit-filled man making perfect confirmation of the same thing. You'll have to use your own discernment of course, but for me it was one of several confirmations:



I know longer believe we'll have Elijah and Enoch, or Elijah and Moses, but an army of disciples, called from common callings, unremarkable people with remarkable purpose and election from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to preach to the lost even from this day, and in mourning and sack cloth during the final tribulation. Here. Now.
 Quoting: Jerichofall


rofl It is TWO witness idiot, not 144,000. And by the way John Lennon and Michael Jackson were the two witness. The two of them were crucify by the supposed righteous, killed in the name of Peace and Love. And mourned until today.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
One of the two witnesses is compared with Joshua the high priest as one of the witnesses will also be high priest.

That is a very distinct role and certainly can not be applied to a group of people.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


Said where? If you have an argument go for it but make your case in scripture and not anecdotes.
 Quoting: Jerichofall


The Two Olive Trees:

Revelation 11:4 calls the two witnesses “the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.” This prophecy indicates that the prophecy about the two witnesses is directly linked to (or foreshadowed by) a prophecy in Zechariah 3-4 about two individuals called the “two olive trees.” Since Revelation 11 links the two witnesses to information in Zechariah 3-4’s prophecy, a digression into Zechariah’s prophecy is necessary to understand more about the two witnesses.
The prophecy in Zechariah 3-4 gives the names “Joshua” and “Zerubbabel” to the two men called the “two olive trees” in Zechariah 4:11, and it reveals that they are alive at a time “the foundation of this house” (verse 9) has been laid down. Zechariah and Haggai were two prophets who lived at the time of Ezra and Nehemiah (Ezra 5:1, 6:14), and Zechariah’s prophecy about the “two olive trees” likens them to two of their actual contemporaries who were named Joshua and Zerubbabel. Zerubbabel was a political officer and Joshua was a High Priest at that time (Haggai 1:1, 12). Since the two historic figures called the “two olive trees” are referenced in Revelation 11 as types of the two witnesses, it could indicate that one of the two witnesses will have a political background while the other “witness” will have a priestly/ministerial background.
Zechariah 4:6 states that Zerubbabel’s power will flow from God’s Holy Spirit. This is consistent with Revelation 11:3 that God’s power will energize the two witnesses at the time of their calling. Verse 7 prophesies that a “great mountain” will become “a plain” before Zerubbabel. Mountains are used in prophecies as types of human nations (Isaiah 1:1-4 is one such example). Zerubbabel will be able to turn “a great mountain” (a very powerful nation or alliance of nations) into “a plain.” In other words, God’s power will be so strong in Zerubbabel that the military power of mighty nations (or the “beast” power” of Revelation) will be “leveled” before Zerubbabel. No human military power will be able to stand before the Divine power that will flow through the Two Witnesses. Zerubbabel had been involved in “laying the foundation of the house” (i.e. an earlier Temple) in Zechariah 4:9, which may indicate that one of the two witnesses will be involved with the effort to build a temple of God in Jerusalem in the latter days, and that these efforts will proceed from a time of very humble beginnings (“the day of small things” in Zechariah 4:10). Zerubbabel uses a “plummet,” a tool used in construction measurements. This parallels the fact that the two witnesses will emerge at a time the latter-day temple is being “measured” (Revelation 11:1-2).
Zechariah 3 is a prophecy about “Joshua,” the other “olive tree” of this prophecy and a type of the other “witness” of Revelation 11. Zechariah 3:1 mentions that Joshua was serving as the high priest in Ezra’s time, and Joshua is personified as being between an “the angel of the Lord” and Satan (who is resisting or opposing him). This “Joshua” is at a nexus of a battle being waged between good and bad angels, but the Lord decides the contest in favor of a good outcome. The Lord rebukes Satan from opposing Joshua any further and then likens Joshua to a “brand plucked from the fire.” Joshua is further depicted as being clothed in “filthy garments” as he “stood before an angel.” A “brand plucked from the fire” pictures a stick or branch that is in the process of being ignited or burned in a fire, but which is “plucked” or rescued from the fire so it is not consumed.
This “Joshua” does not emerge unscathed from the spiritual contest between good and evil angels which has raged around him. His “filthy garments” indicate he is in a sinful or personally damaged state when he is “plucked from the fire” and rescued by God. In verses 4-5, God removes Joshua’s “iniquity” and he is figuratively given new, clean garments and a fair miter (the clothing of a priest). In other words, this individual is “cleaned up” or “restored” so he can perform the duties assigned to him by God. In verses 6-8, an angel gives Joshua a charge to walk in God’s ways in order to perform the priestly duties assigned to him. This is not the first time that God has chosen a spiritually-damaged or “unfit” individual to serve him in a prophetic capacity. When Isaiah was called to be a prophet, he protested that he was unworthy because he had “unclean lips” (Isaiah 6:5), and the Apostle Paul had previously been an enemy of God when known by his earlier surname of “Saul” (Acts 8-9).
Zechariah 4:11-14 describe Joshua and Zerubbabel not only as the “two olive trees,” but also as “the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.” [Emphasis added.] This strongly parallels the role of the two witnesses of Revelation 11 who will serve as two “anointed ones” who will wield Divine power in a global ministry in the latter days. The separate descriptions of “Joshua” and “Zerubbabel” apparently give us clues about some aspects of the lives of the two people who will be called by God to be the two witnesses in the latter days. If not, why would God tell us in Revelation 11 that the two witnesses are the “two olive trees” and then give us specific information in Zechariah 3-4 about the two individuals personified in these roles?


And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. Zachariah 3:1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


I think that is not an accurate intepretation of Zerubbabel as one of the two annointed, in fact Zerubbabel is a picture of Messiah in my mind. Look at what it says - mountains made flat, that happens in Revelations when Messiah returns (the mountains are made flat and the islands dissapear). Also Zerrubabbel is described as having the seven eyes running to and fro just like Jesus in Revelation again.

The article I posted demonstrates how the two olive trees (from scripture) are Israel and Judah, the lost tribes, which is why the 144 are made up 12,00 from 12 tribes.

Certainly Zechariah is a great book of prophecy that I have still much to learn from, so appreciate your input here.
 Quoting: Jerichofall


Yes it is. I think you just reject it because it contradicts your false teachings. The book of Zachariah is the first book that makes mention of the two witnesses and it is clear from the language of Revelation that they are describing the same people, the two witnesses. Why would it be about the Messiah whom the two witnesses belong to and make way for just like John the Baptist did.

Also,

Verse 7 prophesies that a “great mountain” will become “a plain” before Zerubbabel. Mountains are used in prophecies as types of human nations (Isaiah 1:1-4 is one such example). Zerubbabel will be able to turn “a great mountain” (a very powerful nation or alliance of nations) into “a plain.” In other words, God’s power will be so strong in Zerubbabel that the military power of mighty nations (or the “beast” power” of Revelation) will be “leveled” before Zerubbabel.

The mountain reference is metaphorical and refers to a nation or nations while the mountain references in Revelation are literal.

And where is Zerubbabel described as having seven eyes?


"The article I posted demonstrates how the two olive trees (from scripture) are Israel and Judah, the lost tribes, which is why the 144 are made up 12,00 from 12 tribes."

I have no problem with that for it is correct.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 09:50 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets
tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Why did you ignore this OP? How can you refute this?
bigD111

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06/19/2013 09:52 AM

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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
The two witnesses are just part of the group imho.
In Zechariah it says the heavens rejoice to see the plumb line in the hands of Zerubbabel. Why?
It is because when they appear on the earth, the Kingdom of God will be instituted! Gods government pattern is already established in the bible. Moses and Aaron for instance. Moses representing the king and Aaron representing the priest. God uses patterns and He sticks to it. Israel always had a king, and a high priest.
deplorably republican
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 09:54 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
This is for the good person from Ireland! I also am Irish! Maybe we are related! I am originally from Galway and the family name is on a castle there!
Anyway, what I wanted to say is look at Zechariah! In 3:8, the Lord says
Hear, O Joshua, the high priest,
You and your companions who sit before you,
For they are a wondrous sign;
For behold, I am bringing forth
My Servant the BRANCH

Now, obviously Joshua has a group of people with him, and God is addressing the group. The BRANCH is the 144,000, and this is the priestly portion of it, represented by Joshua.

The Lord in verse 3:2 says to Satan, is this not a brand plucked from the fire? He is talking about Joshua here, as being an ordinary person, not someone like Elijah who was holy his whole life. No, this is someone that God has chosen to save, by His grace.
In 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and was standing before the angel. He goes on to say to take away the filthy garments from him and put a clean turban on him. Then the Lord says " See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes."
Their iniquities will be removed, they will be glorified and justified. Not by their own accomplishments, but all is done by the Lord.
Zechariah then goes on to address the Zerubbabels! They are the Kings that are coming.
 Quoting: bigD111


Hi fellow Irish person and don't think were related as I'm not from there.

Anyway, what I wanted to say is look at Zechariah! In 3:8, the Lord says
Hear, O Joshua, the high priest,
You and your companions who sit before you,
For they are a wondrous sign;
For behold, I am bringing forth
My Servant the BRANCH

That was already fulfilled the first time around and the branch refers to Yeshua the Messiah.

"He is talking about Joshua here, as being an ordinary person, not someone like Elijah who was holy his whole life. No, this is someone that God has chosen to save, by His grace."

Yes I agree, Joshua being described as having filthy robes in indicative of his sinful life but I don't see how that stops him also fulfilling the Elijah role. How do we know Elijah was holy all his life? The bible does not say as I know.

"Zechariah then goes on to address the Zerubbabels! They are the Kings that are coming."

Sorry but don't agree with that last part. God bless you.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 09:56 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
sheeplebah
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06/19/2013 09:57 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
The two witnesses will be Levites since the word of God says this,

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. Revelation 11:4

Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. Zachariah 4:14

At that time the LORD separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the LORD, to stand before the LORD to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day. Deuteronomy 10:8

Notice the same phrase.

Elijah was also a levite,

And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name: And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. 1 Kings 18:31-32

Only Levites were allowed to build alters to the Lord.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 09:58 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
This is for the good person from Ireland! I also am Irish! Maybe we are related! I am originally from Galway and the family name is on a castle there!
Anyway, what I wanted to say is look at Zechariah! In 3:8, the Lord says
Hear, O Joshua, the high priest,
You and your companions who sit before you,
For they are a wondrous sign;
For behold, I am bringing forth
My Servant the BRANCH

Now, obviously Joshua has a group of people with him, and God is addressing the group. The BRANCH is the 144,000, and this is the priestly portion of it, represented by Joshua.

The Lord in verse 3:2 says to Satan, is this not a brand plucked from the fire? He is talking about Joshua here, as being an ordinary person, not someone like Elijah who was holy his whole life. No, this is someone that God has chosen to save, by His grace.
In 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and was standing before the angel. He goes on to say to take away the filthy garments from him and put a clean turban on him. Then the Lord says " See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes."
Their iniquities will be removed, they will be glorified and justified. Not by their own accomplishments, but all is done by the Lord.
Zechariah then goes on to address the Zerubbabels! They are the Kings that are coming.
 Quoting: bigD111


Hi fellow Irish person, how are you? I don't think were related as I'm not from Galway.

Anyway, what I wanted to say is look at Zechariah! In 3:8, the Lord says
Hear, O Joshua, the high priest,
You and your companions who sit before you,
For they are a wondrous sign;
For behold, I am bringing forth
My Servant the BRANCH

That was already fulfilled the first time around and the branch refers to Yeshua the Messiah.

"He is talking about Joshua here, as being an ordinary person, not someone like Elijah who was holy his whole life. No, this is someone that God has chosen to save, by His grace."

Yes I agree, Joshua being described as having filthy robes in indicative of his sinful life but I don't see how that stops him also fulfilling the Elijah role. How do we know Elijah was holy all his life? The bible does not say as I know.

"Zechariah then goes on to address the Zerubbabels! They are the Kings that are coming."

Sorry but don't agree with that last part. God bless you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


Fixed.
bigD111

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06/19/2013 10:00 AM

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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Hey Ireland, it is fine to disagree, the truth is close at hand. When they get here, the arguing will stop. Peace brother! As I stated earlier, everyone has their own opinions on what the truth is, and we all wait to finally hear it!
My opinion is that Brian has it right at herealittletherealittle. Not sure I agree with all of them being killed by the beast, but I suppose it could be.
deplorably republican
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 10:01 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Hey Ireland, it is fine to disagree, the truth is close at hand. When they get here, the arguing will stop. Peace brother! As I stated earlier, everyone has their own opinions on what the truth is, and we all wait to finally hear it!
My opinion is that Brian has it right at herealittletherealittle. Not sure I agree with all of them being killed by the beast, but I suppose it could be.
 Quoting: bigD111


True. God bless you all.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 10:06 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
I will create miracles all over the world to prove to the skeptics that it is I, Jesus Christ, who has sent My prophet to prepare all of you for My Second Coming

by admin | June 7, 2013 11:45 pm

My dearly beloved daughter, all of those who know the Truth and who accept the prophecies contained in My Father’s Book, must accept that He has granted the world the greatest Mercy.

Now that the time draws closer for My Second Coming, those who recognize My Voice and who listen to Me, must devote their time to ensure that they spread My Word and pray for the salvation of all their brothers and sisters.

My beloved disciples, My Graces are being poured over you and you must remain confident when helping others to prepare for My Second Coming. Even when they scream obscenities at you, you must remain calm. This Mission will be the most vilified since My Crucifixion, but know that it is the Mission which will save billions of souls.

This is My time. It is the time allocated to Me by My beloved Father, as agreed. It is the time for My Reign when the New Heaven and the New Earth will merge as one. Just as My Father’s Will is done in Heaven, so too will it be done on Earth. All will become one. Hatred, suffering and the power of evil will cease. Every effort you make now to salvage your own souls and your prayers to save others will be worth it, no matter how difficult it is. Let them roar at you, scourge you, abuse you, call you liars and treat you cruelly. The more you will suffer, the more souls you will bring to Me.

I have carved out this path and it is guarded by all of the angels in Heaven. Every evil spirit will cause disruption, create obstacles and try to stop you walking towards Me, but it will be useless. They cannot stop Me reaching out to you or drawing you closer. There will be billions of you. Those who refuse to prepare now will do so in time. You must not allow them to slow you down, for time is short.

Every one of you in My Remnant Army will be given special Graces and I will create miracles all over the world to prove to the skeptics that it is I, Jesus Christ, Who has sent My prophet to prepare all of you for My Second Coming.

Your Jesus
bigD111

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06/19/2013 10:08 AM

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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Hey Ireland, I missed something you wrote. You said Jesus was the Branch???
Isaiah 11:1 There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse,
And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.

Jesus is the Rod from the stem of Jesse. That is why it is capitalized. The Branch that comes from his roots is the 144,000. They come from His roots, they are all descendants of David!
deplorably republican
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 10:13 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
The two witnesses will be Levites since the word of God says this,

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. Revelation 11:4

Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. Zachariah 4:14

At that time the LORD separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the LORD, to stand before the LORD to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day. Deuteronomy 10:8

Notice the same phrase.

Elijah was also a levite,

And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name: And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. 1 Kings 18:31-32

Only Levites were allowed to build alters to the Lord.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


No more altars of stones.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 41968182
Ireland
06/19/2013 10:19 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
The two witnesses will be Levites since the word of God says this,

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. Revelation 11:4

Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. Zachariah 4:14

At that time the LORD separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the LORD, to stand before the LORD to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day. Deuteronomy 10:8

Notice the same phrase.

Elijah was also a levite,

And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name: And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. 1 Kings 18:31-32

Only Levites were allowed to build alters to the Lord.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


No more altars of stones.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38537724


What?
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 10:22 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
The two witnesses will be Levites since the word of God says this,

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. Revelation 11:4

Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth. Zachariah 4:14

At that time the LORD separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the LORD, to stand before the LORD to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day. Deuteronomy 10:8

Notice the same phrase.

Elijah was also a levite,

And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name: And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. 1 Kings 18:31-32

Only Levites were allowed to build alters to the Lord.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


No more altars of stones.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38537724


What?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
MHz

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06/19/2013 10:22 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Yes! You nailed it and so did the author of the website! The bible uses Joshua and Zerrubabel as its examples. Joshua represents the priestly half and Zerrubabel represents the governmental half. You will get plenty of other responses, but this is the truth. He who has ears, let him hear!
 Quoting: bigD111

Would you consider this an example of that process, what a person was appointed to do in the OT (as High Priest in this example)is something Jesus can do as He is our eternal High Priest ever since God called Him to preach in the Gospels. Another example but this time as a king is when Neb was given dominion over the beasts of the field. When Jesus calls the beasts of the field to the feast on men's bodies they are killed after that as they could not be rescued at the end of the 1,000 years so they would suffer the same fate as the fallen angels. The covenant He makes with them is one of remembrance so when the new earth starts and new Jerusalem is on the ground and the gates open the river will flow out into the land and that area and life that once lived there will be 'made healthy' like the Dead Sea is in Eze:47 for the 1,000 year reign.

Da:2:38:
And wheresoever the children of men dwell,
the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand,
and hath made thee ruler over them all.
Thou art this head of gold.

Da:2:37:
Thou,
O king,
art a king of kings:
for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom,
power,
and strength,
and glory.

Re:19:16:
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written,
KING OF KINGS,
AND LORD OF LORDS.

Ho:4:3:
Therefore shall the land mourn,
and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish,
with the beasts of the field,
and with the fowls of heaven;
yea,
the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.

Ho:2:18:
And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field,
and with the fowls of heaven,
and with the creeping things of the ground:
and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth,
and will make them to lie down safely.

Why wouldn't the sword in the 2nd seal be the same sword given in Romans 13? The only difference being the leaders of the nations use it against the same people they are supposed to protect.
MHz

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06/19/2013 10:29 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38537724

That is the key to getting your prayers heard. Your version would have you being the authority that is in charge of answering your prayers, ... nor does it allow for a physical resurrection of a body once it dies.

This is where prayers literally end up.

Re:8:3:
And another angel came and stood at the altar,
having a golden censer;
and there was given unto him much incense,
that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Re:4:5:
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices:
and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne,
which are the seven Spirits of God.

Re:4:3:
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone:
and there was a rainbow round about the throne,
in sight like unto an emerald.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 10:29 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Yes! You nailed it and so did the author of the website! The bible uses Joshua and Zerrubabel as its examples. Joshua represents the priestly half and Zerrubabel represents the governmental half. You will get plenty of other responses, but this is the truth. He who has ears, let him hear!
 Quoting: bigD111

Would you consider this an example of that process, what a person was appointed to do in the OT (as High Priest in this example)is something Jesus can do as He is our eternal High Priest ever since God called Him to preach in the Gospels. Another example but this time as a king is when Neb was given dominion over the beasts of the field. When Jesus calls the beasts of the field to the feast on men's bodies they are killed after that as they could not be rescued at the end of the 1,000 years so they would suffer the same fate as the fallen angels. The covenant He makes with them is one of remembrance so when the new earth starts and new Jerusalem is on the ground and the gates open the river will flow out into the land and that area and life that once lived there will be 'made healthy' like the Dead Sea is in Eze:47 for the 1,000 year reign.

Da:2:38:
And wheresoever the children of men dwell,
the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand,
and hath made thee ruler over them all.
Thou art this head of gold.

Da:2:37:
Thou,
O king,
art a king of kings:
for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom,
power,
and strength,
and glory.

Re:19:16:
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written,
KING OF KINGS,
AND LORD OF LORDS.

Ho:4:3:
Therefore shall the land mourn,
and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish,
with the beasts of the field,
and with the fowls of heaven;
yea,
the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.

Ho:2:18:
And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field,
and with the fowls of heaven,
and with the creeping things of the ground:
and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth,
and will make them to lie down safely.

Why wouldn't the sword in the 2nd seal be the same sword given in Romans 13? The only difference being the leaders of the nations use it against the same people they are supposed to protect.
 Quoting: MHz


How can Yeshua be the high priest if he was the Lion of Judah and according to the eternal law of God, only the sons of Aaron inherit the priesthood???

And thou shalt gird them with girdles, Aaron and his sons, and put the bonnets on them: and the priest's office shall be theirs for a perpetual statute: and thou shalt consecrate Aaron and his sons. Exodus 29:9

per·pet·u·al
/pərˈpeCHo͞oəl/
Adjective
Never ending or changing.
Noun
A perpetual plant, esp. a hybrid rose.
Synonyms
everlasting - eternal - perennial - constant - permanent
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2013 10:33 AM
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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
How can Yeshua be the high priest if he was the Lion of Judah and according to the eternal law of God, only the sons of Aaron inherit the priesthood???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41968182


The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek. 5The Lord is at your right hand; he will crush kings on the day of his wrath. 6He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and crushing the rulers of the whole earth. Psalm 110


Messiah is of another priestly order, not the Levitical one.
bigD111

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06/19/2013 10:40 AM

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Re: Revealed: The Two Witnesses ARE the 144,000 elect of Jehovah
Hi Mhz! I do not know the answer, but I do know in the rest of chapter 11 in Isaiah, it mentions the 144,000 having dominion over the animals. Interesting question though!
deplorably republican





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