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"It has served us well, this myth of Christ".

 
Æon

User ID: 122996
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08/04/2006 04:04 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
126710,

Unfortunately, the vast number of self-proclaimed 'Christians' have no desire to learn the true history. They like their fiction. It promises them things that a true uncovering of history never could.

It is rather obvious to people who have studied the matter that Jesus is an amalgamated figure -- comprised of elements of many different mythical figures. For example, if you dig into it, you'll learn that Osiris was crucified between two thieves... Dionysis rode in a triumphal procession on an ass and turned water into wine.
Ave Gæ , morituri te salutamus!
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:12 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
The early Christians
Rome was obviously not the place where Christianity had been born and was not the cultural center of the world. Christianity first spread in Palestine and Syria, then east to Armenia (the first country to convert) and to Greece, that was the cultural center of the empire. When the apostles spread, Peter went to Rome, but others went elsewhere. Notably, Taddeus went to Armenia.
Later, Paul went to Greece. The first community to call themselves Christians was in Syria. The man whom most (including Paul) considered the head of Christianity was James the Just, who remained in Palestine. These were all equal centers of Christianity. It was only after the Roman conversion that the Roman branch of Christianity became the official one, and the lineage back to Peter (the popes) was recognized as the only lineage worth knowing. It was then that only four gospels (probably written in Greece between 66 and the end of the second century) were accepted as true, even if for centuries several others had circulated. It was then that competing branches of Christianity were persecuted and annihilated.
What accounts for the rapid spread of Christianity around the Roman empire? It is not clear how many Christians there really were before Constantine forced the entire Roman empire to convert to Christianity, but it is reasonable to assume that at least a good number of them lived in Rome and in various provinces of the middle East. In the year 70, following a Jewish rebellion, Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and expelled the Jews. That act may be responsible for the spread of Christianity: Jews of the Christian faith certainly ended up (as slaves) in Rome and probably (as refugees) in several middle-eastern provinces. While it is a mystery how they could make so many proselytes so quickly, it is quite normal that they could be found all around the eastern Roman empire. The number of proselytes (if it was indeed as high as the Church wants us to believe) could be explained in a simple way by assuming that there were already many Christians in Palestine itself, which, of course, would be possible only if Christianity was widely more popular than the official gospels admit and if Christianity predated Jesus.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:13 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Paul's christianity
Christianity as it is today is really what Paul wanted it to be, but Paul was not one of the twelve and candidly admits that he never met Jesus in person. Paul, a Roman citizen and proud of it, favored equal treatment for Jews and non-Jews, but there is no evidence that this was also the view of the other Christians.
It is interesting that Paul only wrote two facts about Jesus' life: that he was crucified, and that he had several brothers, including one named James whom he also refers to, implicitly, as the leader of the Christians. Either he didn't know much about Jesus, or whatever he knew was "espunged" from the New Testament as embarassing to the Roman dogma. It is interesting that the Roman dogma (Christianity as we know it today) is based on Paul's understanding of Jesus' message, even if Paul was the least acquainted with Jesus of all the early leaders. But he was the only one who was a Roman citizen, and who preached Christianity for all, not just for the Jews.
The New Testament includes Paul's letters as an appendix, but they may be the reason the New Testament is the way it is: first Paul coded Christian religion as a Greek and Roman-friendly dogma, then some gospels (written in Greece in Greek) were chosen as the official ones because they reflected that dogma. Paul's letters date from about the year 50, while the earliest gospel is from 60-70. Paul's letters came first and it sounds like the gospels were chosen and edited to justify what Paul wrote (as if to say "you see? that's precisely what Jesus had said").
Paul's letters may be the real foundations of modern Christianity, whereas original Christianity perished in the Roman persecutions of the "disposyni" (Jesus' heirs in Palestine) following Constantine' conversion.
Paul represented a different kind of Christianity than the one preached in Palestine. He was very young when he was admitted in the Agora of Athens. He must have had good credentials, otherwise educated people would not even have listened to him. Paul was a Roman citizen, and younger than the apostles (he was not one of the twelve). There are speculations that he may have been a member of the Herodian family. He represented the view that Christianity was not only for Jews, but for everybody.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:16 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
How convinient... saved by the bell...

James the Just
James the Just was the leader of the early Christians in Palestine. His importance was recognized by early Christians and by Paul himself, who treats him like a leader and seems more interested in James' leadership than in Jesus' teachings.
James was one of Jesus' brothers and appears to have been a revolutionary, more interested in rebelling against the Romans than in the kingdom of heaven. His ideology was probably very different from Paul's: where Paul admitted non-Jews into Christianity, it is likely that James was a "purist" who did not tolerate the contamination.
Paul preached that everybody could be a member of the sect. James probably preached that only Jews could be members. Paul was in favor of opening Jerusalem to Roman citizens. James was against foreigners. James was the product of a resistance that had lasted centuries, first fighting against the Greeks and then the Romans.
Paul was probably not a traitor but a pragmatic: he wanted to win and realized that compromise was essential. James was an idealist: he wanted to the right, no matter what. Martyrdom is not inherent in Paul's preaching, it is in James' ideology.
He is but one of many blood relatives of Jesus who left their mark on early Christians in the Middle East. When Rome converted, they were wiped off. Some were killed, some were forced to disband. The "disposyni" (blood relatives of Jesus) disappeared from Christian genealogy.
His life ended in the years immediately preceding the Jewish rebellion of 66-70 and his stoning may have been related to the upheaval that caused that war, which in turn may have been related to his fundamentalist ideology, which in turn may have been a source of conflict with Paul.
Documents of that era spend more time talking of James than of anyone else. In the New Testament he is hardly mentioned, as if someone carefully removed any reference to the man who was the most influential Christian of the era.
An inscription in stone, found in 2002 near Jerusalem and written in Aramaic, with the words "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus", is the oldest known reference to Jesus: it is dated 63 AD.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:20 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
John the Baptist
Christian literature is reluctant to deal with John the Baptist, although he was the one who "initiated" Jesus and he was the first one to be killed (beheaded by Herod's son Herod Antipas). The Jewish historian Josephus did not know Jesus but he did know very well John the Baptist. Josephus reports how John the Baptist created a large movement that came to threaten Herod Antipas. In the gospels Jesus seems to be one of the Baptist's disciples that somehow started his own movement (the gospels mention that he made his first recruits among John's disciples). John's movement disappears with his death, but John was still revered over the centuries (as attested by countless legends and paintings about his beheading).

(The Mandaeans, a religious sect centered on the Iran/Iraq border, claim that the Baptist was their greatest leader (although they deny he was the founder of their religion) and that Jesus, who started his career as one of John's disciples, was a false prophet who stole John's teachings and corrupted them, then misled the people who followed him with corrupt teachings. Andrew Rush )
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:21 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Simon Magus
The story of Simon Magus, a Samaritan (Turkish) magician in the time of Claudius (41-54) who became popular in Rome, is strikingly similar to Jesus': he too was originally a disciple of John (in fact, he may have succeeded him at the head of his movement), he too performed miracles, he too traveled with a former prostitute, he too started a religious sect. Early Christian writers like Justin, Irenaeus, Eusebius and Epiphanius mention Simon Magus as a demon who proclaims to be god and his followers as performing sexual rites and living "immorally". They seem to imply that some people believed him a saint (or Jesus himself). At least, early Christian writers deemed it worth to mention Simon Magus as an evil man.
Simon Magus is mentioned in the Acts and in early Christian legends as competing with Peter for divine legitimacy.
Simon Magus wrote books but they were all destroyed. All the information we have on Simon Magus comes from his enemies.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:22 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Jewish rebellions and early Christians
The legend of Jesus may also have a political aspect. The Jews of Palestine never accepted the rule of Rome. Their prophets were telling them that a "fifth kingdom" was coming (the previous ones being the occupations by Assyrians, Medes, Persians and Greeks), and it would be a Jewish kingdom, created by a messiah imbued with divine powers. For some or most of Jesus' followers, Jesus may have been identified with that messiah. The Jews then fought three bloody wars against the Romans, each one with "messianic" fervor. They lost all three and the third one ended with the Romans banning Jews from Jerusalem. Then it became impossible to deny that the Romans, not the Jews, were the fifth kingdom. Jesus was obviously not the messiah that prophets had predicted would free the Jews from external domination. No wonder most Jews made fun of Christians and even today do not recognize Jesus as the messiah.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:22 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
The historian Josephus chronicles the events of the first century. The Jews believed in the prophecy that one of them (the messiah) was destined by god to rule over the entire world. Therefore they kept revolting against the Romans. As the Romans kept winning, that belief moved further and further in time. But the Jews who fought the Romans in 66 and then again in 132 probably did so because 1. they were opposed to accepting Roman rule (i.e., Herod and the Herodians) over Palestine (that had been ruled by the Maccabeans) and 2. they were convinced that one of them (the messiah) was meant to rule over the world (not the Roman emperor). Jesus' blood relatives (the "disposyny") were probably among the leaders of the rebellions. In 136 emperor Hadrian definitely crushed the Jewis resistance and forbad Jews from ever entering Jerusalem again. That is the time when the "gnostic" attitude is born: instead of interpreting Jesus as the messiah, some Jews started interpreting his message as a message of knowledge (of love, fraternity, piety, etc). And the kingdom moved to the heavens.
The people who did not participate in the various uprisings were the Pharisees (who, like Paul, favored coexistence with the Romans), the Herodians (members of the royal family) and the high priests (who had been appointed by Herod and the Romans). These must have been viewed as enemies by James and the early "Christians" of Palestine. These may well be the same "Zealots" that killed the high priests and led the crusade against Rome.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:23 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
The Dead Sea scrolls
The Dead Sea Scrolls from Qumran are probably the best preserved document of pre-Christian ideology. They are from the Roman era, but they were never "edited" by the Roman empire. Both the writing style and the contents reflect the real thinking of the pre-Christian era. The date of the Dead Sea Scrolls has not been determined for sure yet. One theory has it that the Essenes who wrote it predate Jesus (they are not mentioned in the New Testament), and that therefore Jesus was just one of them. One theory is that they were written right after Jesus' death and that they represent early Christian thinking (the Essenes are not mentioned in the New Testament precisely because the New Testament is written by Essenes). In the latter case, James the Just would then be a protagonist of the story, whereas Jesus would be only a marginal figure, a sort of magician who happened to become famous.
But there is disagreement on when the Dead Sea Scrolls were written. They deal at length with a good man and with an evil man who were fighting for control of the "movement". If the Dead Sea Scrolls predate Jesus, then Jesus was the product of a culture that had been around for a while and we may never find out who the two protagonists were. If the Dead Sea Scrolls were written by the early Christians, then a strong possibility is that James is the good man and Paul is the evil man (challenging James' doctrine). But then the Dead Sea Scroll don't talk of Jesus at all. Why wouldn't a Christian text talk of Jesus at all?
Nag Hammadi and the gnostics
Nag Hammadi is the place in Egypt where a library of ancient scripts was found in the 1940s. It includes a number of Christian documents, known as the "gnostic" gospels. These gospels provide a glimpse of what Christianity may have been at the very beginning, before being contaminated by political power. For example, one gospel clearly states that it is the gospel of the "twin of Jesus" Judas. That gospel is completely different from the official gospels not only because it doesn't chronicle miracles but because it depicts Jesus as a Buddhist-style cryptic wise man.
The gnostics (as well as the disposyni) disappeared after 381, when Theodosius made heresy a crime and (presumably) persecutions began against anybody who argued with the Roman dogma.
For a long time gnostics have been viewed as opposed to "Pauline Christianity", Christianity as it is today. But now we know that the gnostics actually revered Paul and considered one of theirs. We also know that only seven of the 13 letters attributed to Paul are authentic and one can suspect that the other six were written to prove something that was not proven in the original seven. (Some of the letters appear for the first time with Irenaeus, in 190, the same man who codified the official gospels and must have been to be fakes because not even the Christian historian Eusebius included them in his version of the bible). If one removes the fakes, the originals are strikingly similar to gnostic literature and not a single attack against the gnostics remains. So much so that early Roman letters (such as Clement's and even Peter's) accuse Paul of being a heretic. Commentators have long speculated that there may have been a rift between Paul and James.
Paul's authentic letters talk of allegories (Galatians, 4/24) and symbols (Corinthians 10/6) as if to warn against a literal interpretation of the old testament, and depict a philosophy not too different by the Platonism preached by Philo of Alexandria (a contemporary of Jesus). Could it this be the reason why he was so disliked by Peter and James and why he was so popular with Romans and Greeks?
One can toy with the idea that Paul was such an influential person from the very beginning of Christianity that he could not be dismissed by the Roman church. At the same time, Paul may have been the true founder of Christianity, but not what today we regard as Paul's Christianity, rather just about the opposite: the gnostics may have been closer to Paul's ideology. When the gnostics were persecuted, Paul's ideology was simply "tweaked" with the fake letters so that it would support the Roman ideology. Thus Paul could be involuntarily be regarded as the founder of today's Christianity when in fact he was preaching something else and had no idea future generations would distort his teachings.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:24 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Irenaeus and the dogma
The Christian historian and bishop Irenaeus, who lived between 125 to 202, was probably the first one to state what was legal and what was not in Christianity. He banned books that would remain banned for thousands of years. Those books were sometimes early accounts of the life of Jesus and of the spread of Christianity, but conflicted somehow with the Greek-Roman version of events. When Rome became Christian, Irenaeus' view became dogma.
It is certainly odd that Irenaeus chose gospels written by people who had not been eye-witnesses and discarded gospels such as Thomas' and Peter's. It is certainly odd that such a crucial role is played by the letters of Paul, who had never met Jesus.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:25 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
The twin
One of the books that became illegal and was long lost was the gospel of Didymos Judas Thomas, one of the apostles and the one who was sent east. Didymos in greek and Thomas in aramaic both mean "the twin". It sounds too much of a coincidence. This is consistent with a belief among early Christians that Jesus had a twin brother. Even in one of the official gospels (Matthew's), Pilate asks the people who they would like to crucify: Jesus Messiah or Jesus Barabbas. While this is interpreted as a choice between Jesus and a bandit, it could be that Pilate was trying to ascertain which of the two twins was the one accused of sedition, the other one being a mere thief.
A version of that gospel was found in Nag Hammadi. It is likely that the apostle Taddeus and Judas "the twin" are the same person. Taddeus reached Armenia and then possibly traveled further east. The gospel of Judas Thomas has always intrigued historians and theologians because it doesn't sound Christian at all: its style is closer to Buddhist meditation scripts than to Christian chronicles of Jesus life. After Rome converted, eastern Christianity was forgotten. The truth is that it probably stayed closer to Jesus' thought precisely because it was not contaminated by Roman power.
Taddeus and the Jesus of the east
Thomas/Taddeus may have reached India. There is a place in Srinagar (Kashmir) that is considered Jesus' tomb. If Thomas was a twin brother of Jesus, or simply a spokesman for Jesus, and did reach India this could explain the misunderstanding. Jesus (Yuz Asaf, Yus Asaph, Yesu, San Issa) is mentioned in several documents of Kashmir and even Tibet and all refer to him after his death.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:25 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Jesus' tomb
We know the burial places of most early Christians, except one: Jesus himself. If you believe that the body of Jesus disappeared when he ascended to heaven, as the Church does, you don't have to explain where his bodily remains are. Everybody else should at least wonder why we haven't found the tomb of the very man who is at the center of the Christian faith (the four official gospels list four different burial places). Jesus' date of birth and death are also disputed. Herod died in 4 BC, so (if the gospels tell the truth) Jesus can't be born after that date. The Acts of Thomas record that Jesus was in Taxila at a marriage ceremony in the year 49. Irenaeus himself (not a heretic) writes that Jesus reached an old age.
Was Jesus still alive when James the Just, Paul, Peter and Taddeus were spreading Christianity around the world?
The historian Jesophus mentions a "Jesus" who was alive during the years of the Jewish war (66-70 AD), who was an oracle and who was tried in front of Pilate (except that Pilate released him, not crucified him).
If the body of Jesus was buried somewhere, at least two people must have known and visited that place: his mother and his closest friend.
Mary (the mother of Jesus, James the Just and Taddeus) is known to have traveled to Turkey and may have died near Ephesus (according to local legend). James was almost certainly with her. They were, de facto, exiles.
Mary Magdalene was closer to Jesus than anyone else. "Miriam" was the "apostle of the apostles", and the first witness of the resurrection. The gospels give different accounts of her whereabouts and movements before and after the death of Jesus. There is a legend that she traveled to France, to La Sainte-Baume (near Marseilles), and lived in solitude in a cave for the rest of her life. There is a legend that she followed the Virgin Mary to Turkey and died there.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:26 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Herod
Herod became king in 37 BC because his father Antipater had helped the Roman general Pompej conquer Jerusalem in 63 BC. Herod was a ruthless ruler whose first and main goal was to destroy the Maccabeans who had ruled before him. He killed all of them, except the princess Mary whom he married. Mary committed adultery with Herod's brother Joseph while Herod was in Rome (29 BC). When Herod returned and was informed of the adultery, he executed Mary. He then executed her sons because they were more popular than him with the Jews: they had Maccabean blood. This story is somehow reflected in the legend that Jesus was the son of Mary and Joseph and that Herod wanted to kill all the Jewish children to make sure none of them would claim the title of king. It is unlikely that Jesus was the illegitimate son of the historical Mary and Joseph, because it would make him too old, but the coincidence is striking.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:27 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
That's all, folks.

Who was Jesus?
And what was Jesus' name? "Jesus" simply means "Savior" in hebrew, just like "Christ" is the Greek for "anointed" (a term used in the Old Testament for many kings). But what was his real name?
The family name Barsabas is attributed in the Acts to both a Joseph and a Judas. There is evidence pointing to the fact that Judas Barsabas could be Thaddeus, who is also Judas the "twin brother" of Jesus (Thaddeus is a contraction of "Judas Thomas", that in turn means Judas the brother). Names similar to Barsabas (and Barabbas) recur in Jesus' relatives. The very bandit Barabbas could just be a split in the story, that separated the prophet from the bandit (they were one for the Romans).
Irenaeus himself writes that "Iesous... is a symbolic name".
The Romans kept accurate records of every political and judicial event. There is no record of Pontius Pilate trying and executing a man named Jesus. Only two Roman writers of Jesus' time mention Christians (Pliny and Svetonius) but they don't mention Jesus. The first Roman to mention Jesus is Tacitus, but almost a century after the death of Jesus.
The Jewish historian Josephus certainly mentions Christians, but his words about Jesus are generally considered a later forgery (the Christian historian Origen of the third century wrote that Josephus never mentioned Jesus).
The Jewish philosopher Philo, who lived in Egypt at the time of Jesus does not seem to know anything about Jesus or Christians (he died in the year 40).
Paul himself, one of the founders of Christianity, never talks about Jesus' life, while he definitely talks about his brother James.
Anonymous Coward
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08/04/2006 04:38 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
I know Æon.
Maybe someone would read - it's all here - history and archeology - language of science.
~Angie
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03/08/2007 01:26 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Uh no -- secular scholars do not support a historical Jesus.
Nazareth wasn't established until 100 AD. Therefore he could not have been Jesus of Nazareth. There is no referene in either the Jewish or the Roman historical texts about this man -- there is no Jewish custom of releasing a prisoner at Passover, or of any individual named Barabas or of any crucifixion or earth darkening or temple veil ripping or of any other miracle or oddity attributed to this man. You'd think that as good as the record keeping of the time was, that someone somewhere would have mentioned just one of these incidents. And it's a myth that has been repeated over and over pre-Jesus. Dionysis, Odin, Osyrus, all of them were the sacrificed, dying, visiting the underworld and resurrecting gods.

As for Paul -- he was his own thing. A gnostic -- who was linked to Christianity for political purposes.


There is no myth.
Faithful & True
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03/08/2007 02:15 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Its funny how all the arguments boil down to Jesus. No one trys to deny that there was a Mohummad or Buddah. No one cares that Mohummads body is in a tomb and when he visited heaven it was in a trance in his tent. We must discredit Jesus. He (Christ) stated that He would be a divider of people, His, and those not His. He is going to return as a judge and this just eats at the "self" knowing this reality. Rage on and throw mud at your only hope. Just know this, time is short.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 126613



Your are so right..just think..just before satan and his legions are about to be locked away..something finally after all of mans history suddenly appears on the scene by a bunch of hollywood Jesus haters as one last trick to fool all the stupid ones who can't see who's behind this. Don't let them win. DON'T BELIEVE THE LIE SATAN WANTS and is counting YOU TO..HE IS HOPING EVERYONE WILLL FALL FOR IT. He knows if they fall for it...they all die and thats what he is counting on and he is laughing in Almighty God's face, syaing...see not one can obey..they are all losers. remember..TRUST NO ONE...MAN IS CONTROLLED BY SATAN, HE DWELLS In the thoughts of men and in their hearts...
~Angie
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03/08/2007 02:43 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
How convinient... saved by the bell...

An inscription in stone, found in 2002 near Jerusalem and written in Aramaic, with the words "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus", is the oldest known reference to Jesus: it is dated 63 AD.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 126710


This was proven to have been a hoax.
Bummer.
Oh well...still no Jesus -- still looking...maybe you chould check behind the sofa!
Dexter
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03/08/2007 02:45 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Ha, I find it funny that this farce is being exposed. It reminds me of the time I went to a sunday school thing. There was a guy in a robe with a book in his hand, and he said to me "do you accept Jesus Christ into your heart" and I said "yes" and he said, "no, I need you to really feel it, to really accept Jesus into your heart" and I said "Yes!! I FEEEEL it!!" and smiled a huge smile, and he smiles as well, and touched me on the head. I started walking away after that thinking "these guys are fucking nuts!!".

I have said it before and I will say it again, the very CONCEPT of Christianity is outright evil (or "Sin incarnate"). Sure there's the good points, like love your neighbor, dont be fucking your neighbor's wife, dont kill anyone...all those nice 10 commandments from the old testiment...including "You people better not be worshiping anything other than me directly, there is no such thing as a symbol of me, there is only me" (yes I paraphrased it so that the Christians could understand it more clearly, as they seem to think "thou shalt not worship false idols is translated into "no worshiping golden cow statues, but the worship of a MAN is ok").

So in the new testiment, this guy named "Jesus" comes along. He did lots of nice things and cured people, and then went and told people something to the extent of "The only way to get to the kingdom of heaven is through me". Ok so lets look at that main principle, that you must believe in and worship a MAN named Jesus Christ, in order to attain favor with "God" who said "dont be worshiping ANYTHING besides me directly".

Here is my theory...my observation...Notice that the JEWISH religion does not even one bit try to incorperate the "New Testament". Looking back to who has really been in control throughout history, is it possible that the leaders of the Jewish religion set out to destroy anyone's chances of being "even keel with the Creator" by establishing a religion with a familiar feel to it, that pretty much GUARANTEES the wrath of the Creator? Oh what a tangled web, and if it's not seen, how will you ever break free?

Take it, like everything I say, with 2 spoonfuls of salt, but neither this post, nor anyone's reaction to it alters my path and course, I will be free of this place.
Anonymous Coward
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03/08/2007 02:47 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Yep, and we have been getting threatened with that one for how long? scratching
 Quoting: AK AK KITTY


exactly
sithlord
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03/19/2008 05:34 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
it is all a load of shit.you are all sheep.i studied the bible.jesuh was born around the middle of the year.so why do we celebrate christmas in december.jesus was just another prophet like mohammed. the first book of the new testament wasnt written till 40 years after jesuh death.40 years of exaggeration and hearsay. the gospel of mark didnt originaly end with the resserection it ended with jesus death.the catholic church rewrote it to add a supernatural twist on it.TO MAKE JESUS SEEM LIKE MORE THAN JUST A MAN which he was.
Anonymous Coward
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03/19/2008 05:43 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
satan is so duh lol
Questioning
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09/27/2008 01:26 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
What part of the Christian Bible did the Nazarene write?
FallenAwaken

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09/27/2008 01:28 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
I don't think it is working as well as they thought it would though...I think in the end the people are getting smarter than they thought they would...Even still ASLEEP..
"Pray for solace..Pray for resolve..Pray for a savior..Pray for deliverance..Some kind of purpose..A glimpse of a LIGHT in this VOID OF EXISTENCE..Now witness the END of an age..Hope dies in hands of believers..Who seek the truth in the LIAR'S EYE"

"The greatest TRICK the Devil ever pulled was not convincing the world he doesn't exist..But convincing it that he is GOD"

"I have no pleasure in any man who despises music. It is no invention of ours: It is a gift of GOD. I place it next to theology. Satan hates music: He knows how it drives the EVIL spirit OUT of US."
- Martin Luther


"What have I done?..Where have I come from?..When I burnt the backs with the SUN through a GLASS..Did I SEAL the loss that's become me?.. Feeling undone..What have I become? ..When I turned my back on you..I turned my back on MYSELF and became this MACHINE"

"What you IGNORE now..Will come OUT of YOU later"

"Stones to throw at my Creator..
MASOCHISTS to which I cater..You don't need to bother..I don't need to be..I'll keep slipping farther..
But once I hold on..I won't let go 'til it BLEEDS"
shyla

User ID: 511656
United States
09/27/2008 01:50 AM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
I totally agree OP!
In fact I ran a similiar thread some time ago and I'm sure you are all too well aware of how christians respond to anything that discredits their belief system.
The idea of christianity is a good thing- love everyone and do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
If you look into many other beliefs you'll find that same credo.
That goes to support the arguement that Constantine combined many beliefs.
I believe too many people fall victim to the whole jesus, god, mohammed, buddah, etc complex.
Those figures become their "god" instead of what I believe they were intended to be and that is a role model.
I think we should unite all beliefs as the "do unto others..." and leave religion in the past along with all it's atrocities.
Animals have no religion and in fact if you were born without ever knowing any belief system you would not either.
Imagine how truly free we would be if we could all throw off that immortal rightious coil of slavery. hf
"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
-John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Acton

I was never really insane except upon occasions when my heart was touched.
-Edgar Allan Poe
Invisible Visitor
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Canada
09/28/2008 09:08 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
it is all a load of shit.you are all sheep.i studied the bible.jesuh was born around the middle of the year.so why do we celebrate christmas in december.jesus was just another prophet like mohammed. the first book of the new testament wasnt written till 40 years after jesuh death.40 years of exaggeration and hearsay. the gospel of mark didnt originaly end with the resserection it ended with jesus death.the catholic church rewrote it to add a supernatural twist on it.TO MAKE JESUS SEEM LIKE MORE THAN JUST A MAN which he was.
 Quoting: sithlord 395771


Christmas is celebrated in December because that's when Yule is except it's on Dec 21. After torturing and murdering pagans who refused to convert a new tactic was called for so they stole holidays etc. The moved Jesus' b-day from various dates until they settled on Dec 25 to draw attention away from a pagan holiday. Same as they did for Feb 1. They changed it from Imbolc to St. Brigid's Day and canonized a Celtic goddess to pull pagans away from their worship. They changed Samhain (Halloween)too.There are an awful lot of things about the current Christian calendar that came from the pagan and Jewish celebrations. If you do your research you'll find interesting similarities to other things as well. The image of Cernunous (Celtic god)being used as the devil, the idea of the Trinity being similar to what the Zoroastrianism had, or the figure of the Virgin Mary with a babe looks similar to Egyptian goddess Isis, the virgin mother of Horus. Except she stayed a virgin while Mary didn't.

I don't think Jesus was even a prophet. I think he was just a charismatic man who saw and taught Jewish ways in a different way.
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
09/28/2008 09:22 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
Apollonius of Tyana
Born February 16, 2 AD in Tyana, Cappadoccia, Greece.

Original founder of true Essene Christianity, whose precepts originate in Buddhist India and China(Himalayas).

Replaced by Yeshai Beth Halachmee(pseudo-crucified Essene of 4 BC), Jehoshua Ben Pandira(the Jesus of 100 BC) and Christna(the avatar of 3000 BC) by the priests of Constantine at the Council of Nicea in 325 AD.

The New Testament is a distorted account of his life and teacings.


He was the awe and wonder of his time - Apollonius of Tyana -the true Christ of the first century AD. Apolonius was born of wealthy parents in the Greek town of Tyana, Greece, and his birth was miraculously announced to his mother by an archangel. He was an attractive and precocious child and was sent to reside at the temple of Aescalupius in Tarsus at age twelve, where he was initiated by the priests and where he excelled in religious and philosophical learning and debate, and even performing healing miracles. At the age of sixteen he adopted the pythagorian philosophy and lifestyle of abstaining from animal food, wine, and women, living only on fruits and herbs, maintaining five years of silence, praying to the sun three times a day, dressing only in white linen(non-animal fabric), going barefoot, and never cutting his hair or beard.

He believed in the immortality of the soul, in metempsychosis, and in a supreme deity ruling lesser deities. He also wrote books on astrology. Before starting his public mission he gave away his riches to his relatives with the aim of seeking only knowledge and wisdom.

His mission began by going to Antioch where he taught certain disciples, as well as learning the mysteries of that city's temple, Apollo Daphne. He also traveled to India and Egypt, bringing back with him the doctrines of Krishna and Buddha, which then became the foundations of the Christian religion. As a Roman citizen, he travelled freely within the Roman empire acquiring the reputation of a social and political reformer. He was fearless and spoke out against the tyranny of Nero and Domititian for which he was jailed but later released. His most recounted incident was at the court before emperor Domitian, where he dissapeared into thin air before they could lay any kind of charge on him.

Wherever he went he attracted large crowds and held them spellbound by his words and deeds. Kings, rulers, and common folk constantly sought him for advice and he gave freely. He travelled the world and always stood his ground and was regarded by many as a god in the flesh. He compiled the epistles, and retired to the isle of Patmos where he wrote the book of Revelation. Little is known about his death, but it is thought he lived past the the age of 100, and shortly thereafter ascended to the inner earth paradise.

Temples and statues were built in his honor, and for the first three centuries AD he was regarded as a demi-god and saint. The popularity of Apollonius' teachings became a threat to the decaying Roman Empire, so in 325 AD, At the Cuncil of Nicae, emperor Constantine and his bishops devised the New Christianity which would turn attention away from Appolonius, to a Judean carpenter by the name of Jesus. All records of Apollonius and his Essene Christianity were destroyed and this meant burning the libraries, including the most famous one at Alexandria. The mobs who enforced the new changes met stiff resistance from the people, and some fifty million were eventually killed or martyred in the process.

Important changes in the biblical texts occurred ever since then, such as the removal of the doctrines of reincarnation, astrology, and vegetarianism; to be replaced by their opposites -a mortal soul, a hellfire for diviners, and permission for meat-eating and wine drinking.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 511219
United States
09/28/2008 09:24 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
you better have 9 lives.
Invisible Visitor
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Canada
09/28/2008 10:07 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
you better have 9 lives.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 511219

Who better? me? I have as many lives as is needed to learn the important lessons.

As for the rest of your post, Christians borrowed from several places to make up their mythology so the similarities are hardly surprising.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2008 10:08 PM
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Re: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ".
:FSHGHT:





GLP