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Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice

 
Uncle Fuck Stick
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07/28/2013 12:52 PM

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Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
[link to larouchepac.com]
Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice


The 250-year-old "arsenal" city of Detroit was brought into extreme impoverishment by the collapse of the auto/machine-tool industry in size and wage levels, and the national refusal to reverse that collapse, under the Bush and Obama presidencies. Lyndon LaRouche first put forward the policy to revive that industrial base in November 2004; Bush and Felix Rohatyn blocked it; Obama fixed the wage collapse in stone in the 2009 auto bankruptcy/bailout.


But now the most immediate choice in Detroit involves the impact of the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1998.

That choice is as follows: The city emergency manager, bankruptcy lawyer Kevyn Orr, has made an agreement to pay three banks — UBS, Bank of America, and SBS — approximately $$225 million by Nov. 1. This amount equals 15% of Detroit's total annual all-source revenues estimated at $1.49 billion this year, and Orr agreed to do it while defaulting on pension bonds. This $225 million is not a debt; rather it represents 75% of the "current negative value" (to Detroit) of swaps agreements with those banks on $1.4 billion in 2005 city borrowing. That is, it is a payoff on a LIBOR-rigged derivatives bet that Detroit was conned into making in 2005 by those banks, after borrowing from them. And if the payment is delayed beyond Nov. 1 to a second payment deadline of Mar. 1, 2014, under Orr's agreement it will be 85% of the "current negative value" of the bet, or likely $250 million.

Orr agreed to this derivatives payoff two days before declaring bankruptcy against pensions, retiree health funds, and other general creditors, giving it first priority outside the bankruptcy court.

Will Congress and the White House allow this to happen, directly sacrificing pensions and health benefits for derivatives bets? Detroit already, in 2008, had its Water and Sewerage Department pay $536 million to the same banks to settle a rigged derivatives bet. A

more at link
:4hlick:
CommonCents

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07/28/2013 01:00 PM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
and libiots foam at the mouth blaming Bush, when they don't even know what glass steagal was, and who repealed it(clinton). Repealing glass steagal opened the pandora's box of financial tom foolery. Along w/ the Community Reinvestment Act basically forcing financial institutions to give loans to near deadbeats that had no ability to ever pay it back.
Anonymous Coward
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07/28/2013 01:31 PM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
I don't think pensioneers are going to get much if any sympathy from people living check to check while working their asses off.

Really I do not give a shit if pensioneers get dry fucked long time. They collectively are awarded to people who in general . Enforce the dictates of the moneyed classes and have rarely done anything worthwhile for me . Usually when I have deal with these fucknauts , it costs me time , revenue and infuriates me. So fuck em , guess you should have left the public sector and "made more money" when you had the chance ) LOLING at you fo shoah
Uncle Fuck Stick  (OP)

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07/29/2013 07:20 AM

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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
"@BlacklistedNews: Bad Derivatives Trades Added to Detroit’s Woes [link to t.co]


Only now that the narrative around Detroit is pretty well established – city in long-term decline whose distress was intensified by a series of corrupt city governments, compounded by state governments that were opposed to Detroit’s interests – does an important additional factor come to light, that of derivatives losses.

While the bad derivatives bets were far from large enough to have changed the outcome (one commentator called the bankruptcy a “five-decade Katrina,”) it’s another example of how Wall Street wins, even on a relative basis, while little people lose.

Just as Jefferson County, which was faced with big payments (this for a massive sewer project) and got snookered by Big Finance in its efforts to minimize the costs of its funding. Detroit did JeffCo one better by first going the extend and pretend route by borrowing $1.4 billion in 2005 to address its pension shortfall. The piece de resistance was a series of derivatives done in connection with that financing.

The problem is that the most detailed account on this so far, from the Financial Times. leads me scratching my head as to how much the der

More at link

Last Edited by Uncle Fuck Stick on 07/29/2013 07:26 AM
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Uncle Fuck Stick  (OP)

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07/29/2013 07:23 AM

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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
Thread: cant STRESS ENOUGH about how many times ive heard THAT WHEN you HEAR of the DERIVATIVES in THE NEWS.....watch THE FUCK OUT...economic 9-11 event
:4hlick:
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 07:37 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
I've read somewhere that it wouldn't really have made much difference either way so I dunno.

I'm trying to remember the source...

Perhaps not this one but something similar...

[link to spectator.org]
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 07:37 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
I've read somewhere that it wouldn't really have made much difference either way so I dunno.

I'm trying to remember the source...

Perhaps not this one but something similar...

[link to spectator.org]
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 07:43 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
and libiots foam at the mouth blaming Bush, when they don't even know what glass steagal was, and who repealed it(clinton). Repealing glass steagal opened the pandora's box of financial tom foolery. Along w/ the Community Reinvestment Act basically forcing financial institutions to give loans to near deadbeats that had no ability to ever pay it back.
 Quoting: CommonCents


Hey dicknose

Bush was the one that was trying to force social security into derivatives.

Grow a brian or shut the fuck up
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44165771


There is nothing in SS now but stacks of IOU's. What difference would it have made?
STARLING

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07/29/2013 07:57 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
and libiots foam at the mouth blaming Bush, when they don't even know what glass steagal was, and who repealed it(clinton). Repealing glass steagal opened the pandora's box of financial tom foolery. Along w/ the Community Reinvestment Act basically forcing financial institutions to give loans to near deadbeats that had no ability to ever pay it back.
 Quoting: CommonCents


Hey dicknose

Bush was the one that was trying to force social security into derivatives.

Grow a brian or shut the fuck up
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44165771

link for understanding if you can
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 07:59 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
ha ha ha fuck all you fat useless pensioners. ha ha ha, i laugh my ass off. did any of the pensioners care about detroit or did they care about their time off and benefits and pension, you got used for youre greed assholes, by the greedy politicians and banks. it was obamas fault, it was bush's fault, noit is the american peoples fault and its coming to youre town next
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 08:08 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
I don't think pensioneers are going to get much if any sympathy from people living check to check while working their asses off.

Really I do not give a shit if pensioneers get dry fucked long time. They collectively are awarded to people who in general . Enforce the dictates of the moneyed classes and have rarely done anything worthwhile for me . Usually when I have deal with these fucknauts , it costs me time , revenue and infuriates me. So fuck em , guess you should have left the public sector and "made more money" when you had the chance ) LOLING at you fo shoah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44168288


Be careful what you wish for, you may end up dying in the streets, flat broke without a whisper of concern from anyone.
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 08:11 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
ha ha ha fuck all you fat useless pensioners. ha ha ha, i laugh my ass off. did any of the pensioners care about detroit or did they care about their time off and benefits and pension, you got used for youre greed assholes, by the greedy politicians and banks. it was obamas fault, it was bush's fault, noit is the american peoples fault and its coming to youre town next
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26548545


ha ha ha the jokes gonna be on you. Your tune will be changing within a couple decades of time. It will be too late, there will be nothing for you, zero.
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 08:16 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
and libiots foam at the mouth blaming Bush, when they don't even know what glass steagal was, and who repealed it(clinton). Repealing glass steagal opened the pandora's box of financial tom foolery. Along w/ the Community Reinvestment Act basically forcing financial institutions to give loans to near deadbeats that had no ability to ever pay it back.
 Quoting: CommonCents


Hey dicknose

Bush was the one that was trying to force social security into derivatives.

Grow a brian or shut the fuck up
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44165771

link for understanding if you can
 Quoting: STARLING


All the Bush proposed was that people could choose to control their own pile of cash for investment purposes.
Derivatives was not an option, it was merely a choice between throwing your money away in stocks or throwing it away investing in honesty and efficiency of the US of FED.
If one had invested in the Stock market they would lose it all and end up at zero.
Since everyone was invested in the FED everyone owes them more than they have.
At least with the Bush you'd only end up with nothing, which is miles ahead of owing additional thousands to millions.
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 08:17 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
and libiots foam at the mouth blaming Bush, when they don't even know what glass steagal was, and who repealed it(clinton). Repealing glass steagal opened the pandora's box of financial tom foolery. Along w/ the Community Reinvestment Act basically forcing financial institutions to give loans to near deadbeats that had no ability to ever pay it back.
 Quoting: CommonCents


Hey dicknose

Bush was the one that was trying to force social security into derivatives.

Grow a brian or shut the fuck up
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44165771

link for understanding if you can
 Quoting: STARLING


All the Bush proposed was that people could choose to control their own pile of cash for investment purposes.
Derivatives was not an option, it was merely a choice between throwing your money away in stocks or throwing it away investing in honesty and efficiency of the US of FED.
If one had invested in the Stock market they would lose it all and end up at zero.
Since everyone was invested in the FED everyone owes them more than they have.
At least with the Bush you'd only end up with nothing, which is miles ahead of owing additional thousands to millions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43195617


Not true.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 805163
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07/29/2013 08:22 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
and libiots foam at the mouth blaming Bush, when they don't even know what glass steagal was, and who repealed it(clinton). Repealing glass steagal opened the pandora's box of financial tom foolery. Along w/ the Community Reinvestment Act basically forcing financial institutions to give loans to near deadbeats that had no ability to ever pay it back.
 Quoting: CommonCents


Hey dicknose

Bush was the one that was trying to force social security into derivatives.

Grow a brian or shut the fuck up
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44165771


Urine idiot and a moran
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 08:24 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
[link to larouchepac.com]
Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice


The 250-year-old "arsenal" city of Detroit was brought into extreme impoverishment by the collapse of the auto/machine-tool industry in size and wage levels, and the national refusal to reverse that collapse, under the Bush and Obama presidencies. Lyndon LaRouche first put forward the policy to revive that industrial base in November 2004; Bush and Felix Rohatyn blocked it; Obama fixed the wage collapse in stone in the 2009 auto bankruptcy/bailout.


But now the most immediate choice in Detroit involves the impact of the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1998.

That choice is as follows: The city emergency manager, bankruptcy lawyer Kevyn Orr, has made an agreement to pay three banks — UBS, Bank of America, and SBS — approximately $$225 million by Nov. 1. This amount equals 15% of Detroit's total annual all-source revenues estimated at $1.49 billion this year, and Orr agreed to do it while defaulting on pension bonds. This $225 million is not a debt; rather it represents 75% of the "current negative value" (to Detroit) of swaps agreements with those banks on $1.4 billion in 2005 city borrowing. That is, it is a payoff on a LIBOR-rigged derivatives bet that Detroit was conned into making in 2005 by those banks, after borrowing from them. And if the payment is delayed beyond Nov. 1 to a second payment deadline of Mar. 1, 2014, under Orr's agreement it will be 85% of the "current negative value" of the bet, or likely $250 million.

Orr agreed to this derivatives payoff two days before declaring bankruptcy against pensions, retiree health funds, and other general creditors, giving it first priority outside the bankruptcy court.

Will Congress and the White House allow this to happen, directly sacrificing pensions and health benefits for derivatives bets? Detroit already, in 2008, had its Water and Sewerage Department pay $536 million to the same banks to settle a rigged derivatives bet. A

more at link
 Quoting: Uncle Fuck Stick


Funny how one of the most ridiculed political figures of the 20th century actually has all the best ideas. Ideally I don't like big government but Lynn's ideas have always been spot on.
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 08:53 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
...


Hey dicknose

Bush was the one that was trying to force social security into derivatives.

Grow a brian or shut the fuck up
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44165771

link for understanding if you can
 Quoting: STARLING


All the Bush proposed was that people could choose to control their own pile of cash for investment purposes.
Derivatives was not an option, it was merely a choice between throwing your money away in stocks or throwing it away investing in honesty and efficiency of the US of FED.
If one had invested in the Stock market they would lose it all and end up at zero.
Since everyone was invested in the FED everyone owes them more than they have.
At least with the Bush you'd only end up with nothing, which is miles ahead of owing additional thousands to millions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43195617


Not true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43989928



Ok shill ass, how about the link to the Bush stating we all should be force to invest in DERIVITIVES, specifically?
If you cant then fuckoff.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
07/29/2013 08:57 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
...

link for understanding if you can
 Quoting: STARLING


All the Bush proposed was that people could choose to control their own pile of cash for investment purposes.
Derivatives was not an option, it was merely a choice between throwing your money away in stocks or throwing it away investing in honesty and efficiency of the US of FED.
If one had invested in the Stock market they would lose it all and end up at zero.
Since everyone was invested in the FED everyone owes them more than they have.
At least with the Bush you'd only end up with nothing, which is miles ahead of owing additional thousands to millions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43195617


Not true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43989928



Ok shill ass, how about the link to the Bush stating we all should be force to invest in DERIVITIVES, specifically?
If you cant then fuckoff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43195617


If social security was privatized, you would not 'invest' in whatever you wanted. It would be controlled by TPTB.
RayGun

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07/29/2013 09:06 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
At least they will get a new $444 million dollar hockey arena. GO Wings!xmas

[link to themoderatevoice.com]
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 09:13 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
...


All the Bush proposed was that people could choose to control their own pile of cash for investment purposes.
Derivatives was not an option, it was merely a choice between throwing your money away in stocks or throwing it away investing in honesty and efficiency of the US of FED.
If one had invested in the Stock market they would lose it all and end up at zero.
Since everyone was invested in the FED everyone owes them more than they have.
At least with the Bush you'd only end up with nothing, which is miles ahead of owing additional thousands to millions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43195617


Not true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43989928



Ok shill ass, how about the link to the Bush stating we all should be force to invest in DERIVITIVES, specifically?
If you cant then fuckoff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43195617


If social security was privatized, you would not 'invest' in whatever you wanted. It would be controlled by TPTB.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43989928


I dont need a derivative opinion from a tard like you, fuckoff with your bullshit interpretations.
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 09:23 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
Pension is a ponzi scheme like SS#. It is unsustainable and the avg $20k pension is factoring in from those retired 2-3 decades ago.

Have you seen your public records of the last decade pensions values? They're in the high 5 figures to 6 figures not including their health benefits!
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 09:25 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
Thread: Detroit: Test Case For Genocide
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 09:27 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
...


Not true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43989928



Ok shill ass, how about the link to the Bush stating we all should be force to invest in DERIVITIVES, specifically?
If you cant then fuckoff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43195617


If social security was privatized, you would not 'invest' in whatever you wanted. It would be controlled by TPTB.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43989928


I dont need a derivative opinion from a tard like you, fuckoff with your bullshit interpretations.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43195617


Much the way 401K and IRA funds are held in private trust. As with 401Ks, privatized social security accounts would be regulated to limit the investments that are available. Along with privatization, I would expect limited control of investment decisions and rights of survivorship and inheritance.

[link to republicansforobama.org]
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 09:33 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
and libiots foam at the mouth blaming Bush, when they don't even know what glass steagal was, and who repealed it(clinton). Repealing glass steagal opened the pandora's box of financial tom foolery. Along w/ the Community Reinvestment Act basically forcing financial institutions to give loans to near deadbeats that had no ability to ever pay it back.
 Quoting: CommonCents


Hey dicknose

Bush was the one that was trying to force social security into derivatives.

Grow a brian or shut the fuck up
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44165771


All of you have still not realized that it doesn't matter who was repub or demo, they all are criminal in the plot!
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 09:45 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
Pension is a ponzi scheme like SS#. It is unsustainable and the avg $20k pension is factoring in from those retired 2-3 decades ago.

Have you seen your public records of the last decade pensions values? They're in the high 5 figures to 6 figures not including their health benefits!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1576481


So how are you going to ever retire?

No ponzi pension or SS for you?
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 09:47 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
...



Ok shill ass, how about the link to the Bush stating we all should be force to invest in DERIVITIVES, specifically?
If you cant then fuckoff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43195617


If social security was privatized, you would not 'invest' in whatever you wanted. It would be controlled by TPTB.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43989928


I dont need a derivative opinion from a tard like you, fuckoff with your bullshit interpretations.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43195617


Much the way 401K and IRA funds are held in private trust. As with 401Ks, privatized social security accounts would be regulated to limit the investments that are available. Along with privatization, I would expect limited control of investment decisions and rights of survivorship and inheritance.

[link to republicansforobama.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43989928


And derivatives are mentioned, where?
A derivative is a specific thing, not just what you thing it could be.
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 09:53 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
Derivatives are a rigged bet for the bankers, It's a tool for insiders to loot the public indirectly.
The public cannot directly involve itself to benefit from derivatives, its insider conceived for insider benefit and is insurance designed to pay off only to the insiders.
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 10:03 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
This Orr dude sounds like a Prime Candidate for a Lynching?

Detroit/Chicongo I'm sure will live up to its reputation?
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 10:46 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
and libiots foam at the mouth blaming Bush, when they don't even know what glass steagal was, and who repealed it(clinton). Repealing glass steagal opened the pandora's box of financial tom foolery. Along w/ the Community Reinvestment Act basically forcing financial institutions to give loans to near deadbeats that had no ability to ever pay it back.
 Quoting: CommonCents


Hey dicknose

Bush was the one that was trying to force social security into derivatives.

Grow a brian or shut the fuck up
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44165771


There is nothing in SS now but stacks of IOU's. What difference would it have made?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42021534


the IOUs can be converted to credits at a stroke of the pen.
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 10:47 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
Derivatives are a rigged bet for the bankers, It's a tool for insiders to loot the public indirectly.
The public cannot directly involve itself to benefit from derivatives, its insider conceived for insider benefit and is insurance designed to pay off only to the insiders.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43195617


Also they were rigged to fail to make the people even more indebted to the banksters
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2013 10:49 AM
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Re: Detroit: Pensions or Derivatives? Glass-Steagall Would Have Made the Choice
Pension is a ponzi scheme like SS#. It is unsustainable and the avg $20k pension is factoring in from those retired 2-3 decades ago.

Have you seen your public records of the last decade pensions values? They're in the high 5 figures to 6 figures not including their health benefits!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1576481


Over 4 trillion was put into the SS trust fund, Congress stole it. The debt that is now their should be fairly converted to credits without interest or need for repayment. That would make SS whole and not a Ponzi scheme





GLP