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honesty and lies

 
Xerces

User ID: 14245097
United States
08/16/2013 02:54 AM
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Re: honesty and lies

"A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker, a raving lunatic."
-Dresden James

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
-Arthur Schopenhauer
berniemom2012
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User ID: 6493463
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08/16/2013 02:59 AM
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Re: honesty and lies
Do you share who you are deep deep down with people? If not does that make you a liar?

Do you have thoughts and opinions or urges that you suppress?
does that make you a liar?

Does being anything but a brutally honest person make you a liar?

I'll admit I have things I will take to the grave. Can you?

I'm especially interested in asking this here on GLP where we all get to hide behind a veil...
 Quoting: Qarley


Be careful about what you plan to "take to the grave". Old people have a tendency to lose that internal censor that keeps secrets locked up, and end up spilling all kinds of embarassing stuff. My dad made a lot of embarassing confessions in his later years, stuff he NEVER would've talked about as a young man. If you have something MAJOR to hide, maybe a lobotomy is in order. Or tell it now and get it off your chest.

Throughout my life I've told "small" lies, maybe one or two whoppers to my children because I didn't want to shock or traumatize them. My worry is that someday I'll sit down with them and confess all, and they're gonna be ticked off.

Not sure what to do about that...
hwke

User ID: 44431458
United States
08/16/2013 03:01 AM
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Re: honesty and lies
I've thought about this from time to time. If one believes that purposely not sharing something with someone (when not asked about it specifically) is lying, then one also has to conclude that any act that hides one's true feeling or thought is a lie. It doesn't have to apply only to spoken word in this case.

If someone smiles at you at the grocery store and you give a fake smile back, you're lying. Or are you? If you're just being polite (because you truly identify with being polite to people in public) then you're acting in accordance with who you really are deep down. Does that equate to being truthful?

What does it mean to be truthful? Is behaving in a manner that is congruent with your self identity truthful? I'll use myself as an example. I'm really aloof, and I'm not one to talk your ear off. There are plenty of things I don't tell to the people that are close to me. Not all of it is because I've made a conscious decision to keep it to myself, but because that's just the way I am. I don't go out of my way to give people information randomly. Am I being truthful, or am I deceitful, for not opening the flood gates of my thoughts? You could say it depends on my motive. If it's just my personality to be generally quiet, then it's fine. However, what if I purposely choose not to share something. Is that lying? If so, then it all comes down to motive. The difference is: keeping something inside you because you don't see it as very important, and keeping something inside you because it's REALLY important. Is there that big of a difference though? Where is the line between insignificant details and significant details?

Suppose you're talking about an event from work with your spouse. Do you tell her that you checked out the hot secretary as you walked by her desk? Do you tell her that somebody gave you a blue pen? There are tons of deep personal opinions attached to everything you experience. You choose what to share and what not to share. Are you lying by not sharing that you checked out the secretary? Are you lying by not sharing that somebody gave you a pen? What is the difference? Both events happened, and both events went inside you never to be told to anyone.
There are trivial truths & there are great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true.
berniemom2012
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User ID: 6493463
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08/16/2013 03:02 AM
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Re: honesty and lies
Do you share who you are deep deep down with people? If not does that make you a liar?

Do you have thoughts and opinions or urges that you suppress?
does that make you a liar?

Does being anything but a brutally honest person make you a liar?

I'll admit I have things I will take to the grave. Can you?

I'm especially interested in asking this here on GLP where we all get to hide behind a veil...
 Quoting: Qarley


Classic case:

Person has an extra-marital affair. Should s/he "tell" the spouse? Well the quote-honest thing to do is to tell. But that's morality 101. If you love and respect your spouse, then the moral thing to do is to lie. Lying shows you are ashamed. Lying shows you value the relationship. On the other hand, telling the truth is how you say "fuck you" to your spouse.

These things are complicated
Qarley  (OP)

User ID: 1038061
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08/16/2013 03:19 AM
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Re: honesty and lies
I don' t care for constantly replying with quotes.

You all have excellent points. We as humans are allowed to hide behind this veil. This veil of our personal perspective. We can be whoever we want to be.

The important thing is we integrate who we project and who we really are. Find the balance in the many possibilities and be honest to all of them.
"Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could. Some blunders and absurdities no doubt crept in; forget them as soon as you can. Tomorrow is a new day; begin it well and serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense."
hwke

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United States
08/16/2013 03:29 AM
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Re: honesty and lies
Behaving in a way that is congruent with your own self identity and beliefs, you could say you're being true to yourself. It gets tricky when you consider other people's EXPECTATIONS of you.

For instance, you've been having problems at work that you don't want to share. When talking to your mom, you purposely don't bring up the subject of work because you know she's just DYING to ask a hundred questions and you don't want to get into it.

Talking to your dad though, you purposely don't bring up the subject of work because you know he doesn't give a shit and he'd rather talk about something else.

Are you lying by not sharing your troubles with your mom? What about with your dad?

Now let's say you're discussing how your business trip went with your spouse. What you tell her will be based on what you EXPECT her to be interested in. You don't share all the details of what went on in your meeting, because you think she won't care. Instead you tell her where you ate, how the hotel was, etc. Is it lying if you don't tell your spouse about the attractive woman who flirted with you at the hotel bar? Is it lying if you don't tell her everything that what was discussed in your business meeting?

Say you're speaking with a business client now, describing your trip once again. Do you tell them about the restaurant you ate at? No. You tell them the details about what you discussed in your meeting. Is it lying if you don't tell your client about the attractive woman who flirted with you at the hotel bar? Is it lying if you don't tell them everything that what was discussed in your business meeting?

It comes down to what expectations different people have in you, whether something is a lie or not. But really, you can't be 100% sure about everybody's expectations all the time. The only thing one knows for sure is what is in your own thoughts and your own expectations.

So is it lying to not share details about your time talking to the flirtatious woman with your spouse? With your client? What if your client genuinely is SUPER interested in this event but you fail to mention it? How is the client any different than your spouse now? Does it come down to rules set in place by society to decide who you're lying to? Rules set in place by yourself?

Last Edited by hwke on 08/16/2013 03:32 AM
There are trivial truths & there are great truths. The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true.
yjyjyjgh

User ID: 45229311
India
08/16/2013 04:04 AM
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Re: honesty and lies
If it is necessary for you to lie to a family member, you need to keep the long-term goal of eventually becoming honest with that member.
USDAlady

User ID: 41881644
United States
08/16/2013 04:37 AM

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Re: honesty and lies
It's about "intention".

Much love to whoever needs it today from lil' ol me.

hf
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45208026
United States
08/16/2013 04:38 AM
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Re: honesty and lies
Do you share who you are deep deep down with people? If not does that make you a liar?


 Quoting: Qarley


Do you share who your are deep deep down with yourself?

If so, how did you discover it?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44860960
United States
08/16/2013 05:27 AM
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Re: honesty and lies
Do you share who you are deep deep down with people? If not does that make you a liar?

Do you have thoughts and opinions or urges that you suppress?
does that make you a liar?

Does being anything but a brutally honest person make you a liar?

I'll admit I have things I will take to the grave. Can you?

I'm especially interested in asking this here on GLP where we all get to hide behind a veil...
 Quoting: Qarley


Classic case:

Person has an extra-marital affair. Should s/he "tell" the spouse? Well the quote-honest thing to do is to tell. But that's morality 101. If you love and respect your spouse, then the moral thing to do is to lie. Lying shows you are ashamed. Lying shows you value the relationship. On the other hand, telling the truth is how you say "fuck you" to your spouse.

These things are complicated
 Quoting: berniemom2012


Ok - I disagree here. You are condoning living a lie. What you fear is your life destroyed, homeless, nobody will talk to you or hire you..

The truth will always put you on the correct path, but first you are going to be miserable. Bottom line? Don't lie.
Zephyr2

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08/16/2013 05:54 AM
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Re: honesty and lies
This is a great question. It is one that I have often asked myself. I still struggle with it. My intention is to be honest but I do find moments when, even as I am uttering the words, that I am editing my comment to appease the audience. I am ashamed to say that. I do strive to be honest...It is so hard sometimes because I struggle to please other people.
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
~Calvin & Hobbs~
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44922744
France
08/16/2013 06:15 AM
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Re: honesty and lies
Mendacity and lies are the product of hallucination---that we are all not the same (hopeless sinners without Grace)---a person (meaning 'Mask')wears a face mask when they are caught in the mass hallucination of this fallen corrupt world because they are blinded to Reality (YHVH, Christ)---one easily gets the impression that one is darker, more corrupted than others---many would be shocked to realize that we all have the same thoughts, feelings and most of all proclivity to do evil (circumstances and God's Grace alone prevent us all from being a Hitler or a Pol Pot)...

We are hypocrites, liars, deceivers and more so as each day progresses in these end times of corruption on all levels---if one is a psychopath, then this modern world is acceptable, if one still has the tiniest remnant of conscience, then it is a blood bath of suffering and insanity---only God can liberate where politics and self-motivated change has left the heart unregenerate.

If one cannot be utterly truthful to God or to another (except when relaying our horrific thoughts, words and actions might negatively affect another mortal, naturally), then one is in peril.

Truth is a synonym for God and so is Sanity---we live in a mad world......

...to quote Big Daddy in 'A Cat On A Hot Tin Roof'---"Smell that? The unmistakeable odor of mendacity---smells like death".

Being Self-honest is the bitterest pill of all---to treat one's self as harshly as one would treat another in matters of disputation, for example---there is no other way to succeed but to BE THE TRUTH, LOVE THE TRUTH, THINK, SPEAK AND ACT THE TRUTH---as Bill Hicks stated---Truth is the most important thing we have because our future depends upon it...

If you are interested, after many years of truth-seeking, I can assure you that it is in Christ Jesus and no other...
Qarley  (OP)

User ID: 2240646
United States
08/16/2013 02:38 PM
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Re: honesty and lies
Do you share who you are deep deep down with people? If not does that make you a liar?


 Quoting: Qarley


Do you share who your are deep deep down with yourself?

If so, how did you discover it?
 Quoting: zenobiaphobia


Thats a very good point. And how can we ever truly know ourselves if we constantly evolve?

How can we be honest with others if we aren't honest to ourselves first?

I believe that there is no specific technique for us to learn who we truly are deep down. It's a very personal experience and a unique journey.
"Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could. Some blunders and absurdities no doubt crept in; forget them as soon as you can. Tomorrow is a new day; begin it well and serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense."
Qarley  (OP)

User ID: 765169
United States
08/16/2013 02:43 PM
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Re: honesty and lies
This is a great question. It is one that I have often asked myself. I still struggle with it. My intention is to be honest but I do find moments when, even as I am uttering the words, that I am editing my comment to appease the audience. I am ashamed to say that. I do strive to be honest...It is so hard sometimes because I struggle to please other people.
 Quoting: Zephyr2


Keep questioning yourself.
Doubt is the beginning to truth.
"Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could. Some blunders and absurdities no doubt crept in; forget them as soon as you can. Tomorrow is a new day; begin it well and serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense."
Balloons

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Denmark
08/16/2013 02:59 PM
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Re: honesty and lies
Yes i do, but only to chose that know me, and i have nothing to tell them, because they know everything about me
Please hold still so I can cut your hair long
Qarley  (OP)

User ID: 765169
United States
08/16/2013 03:10 PM
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Re: honesty and lies
Yes i do, but only to chose that know me, and i have nothing to tell them, because they know everything about me
 Quoting: Balloons


Everything?

Even your signature says there is always more...
hf
"Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could. Some blunders and absurdities no doubt crept in; forget them as soon as you can. Tomorrow is a new day; begin it well and serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense."





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