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You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 02:50 AM
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You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
You have been misled by propaganda and fraud to believe that you need a driver's license to travel with your vehicle in this country. Your driver's license is null and void because you were lead by fraud to believe that you needed it to operate your vehicle.

There is a clear distinction between an automobile and a motor vehicle. An automobile has been defined as:

"The word `automobile' connotes a pleasure vehicle designed for the transportation of persons on highways."
American Mutual Liability Ins. Co., vs. Chaput, 60 A.2d 118, 120; 95 NH 200

While the distinction is made clear between the two as the courts have stated:

"A motor vehicle or automobile for hire is a motor vehicle, other than an automobile stage, used for the transportation of persons for which remuneration is received."
International Motor Transit Co. vs. Seattle, 251 P. 120


The distinction is made very clear in Title 18 USC 31:

"Motor vehicle" means every description or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used for commercial purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers, or passengers and property.
"Used for commercial purposes" means the carriage of persons or property for any fare, fee, rate, charge or other considerations, or directly or indirectly in connection with any business, or other undertaking intended for profit.

Clearly, an automobile is private property in use for private purposes, while a motor vehicle is a machine which may be used upon the highways for trade, commerce, or hire.

If you do not make a living transporting people or products, YOU DO NOT NEED A DRIVER'S LICENSE.

Legal Definitions of "Driver" and "Traveler":

"Traveler -- One who passes from place to place, whether for pleasure, instruction, business, or health."
Locket vs. State, 47 Ala. 45;
Bovier's Law Dictionary, 1914 ed., Pg. 3309

"Driver -- One employed in conducting a coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle ..."
Bovier's Law Dictionary, 1914 ed., Pg. 940

An example of people who need a driver's license: Taxi drivers and Semi operaters.

You are not a "driver", you are a "traveler".

READ MORE: [link to www.lawfulpath.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 02:53 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
This rabbit hole goes very, very deep folks. This is the real conspiracy. Almost every liberty you were born with has been fraudulently taken from you!

The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion."
Edmund Burke, (1784)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 02:56 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
If ever a judge understood the public's right to use the public roads, it was Justice Tolman of the Supreme Court of the State of Washington. Justice Tolman stated:

"Complete freedom of the highways is so old and well established a blessing that we have forgotten the days of the Robber Barons and toll roads, and yet, under an act like this, arbitrarily administered, the highways may be completely monopolized, if, through lack of interest, the people submit, then they may look to see the most sacred of their liberties taken from them one by one, by more or less rapid encroachment."
Robertson vs. Department of Public Works, 180 Wash 133, 147.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14380192
United States
08/16/2013 02:56 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
I have always wondered about this...


Thank's OP
Soma/Comatose

User ID: 32963937
United States
08/16/2013 03:00 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
You have been misled by propaganda and fraud to believe that you need a driver's license to travel with your vehicle in this country. Your driver's license is null and void because you were lead by fraud to believe that you needed it to operate your vehicle.

There is a clear distinction between an automobile and a motor vehicle. An automobile has been defined as:

"The word `automobile' connotes a pleasure vehicle designed for the transportation of persons on highways."
American Mutual Liability Ins. Co., vs. Chaput, 60 A.2d 118, 120; 95 NH 200

While the distinction is made clear between the two as the courts have stated:

"A motor vehicle or automobile for hire is a motor vehicle, other than an automobile stage, used for the transportation of persons for which remuneration is received."
International Motor Transit Co. vs. Seattle, 251 P. 120


The distinction is made very clear in Title 18 USC 31:

"Motor vehicle" means every description or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used for commercial purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers, or passengers and property.
"Used for commercial purposes" means the carriage of persons or property for any fare, fee, rate, charge or other considerations, or directly or indirectly in connection with any business, or other undertaking intended for profit.

Clearly, an automobile is private property in use for private purposes, while a motor vehicle is a machine which may be used upon the highways for trade, commerce, or hire.

If you do not make a living transporting people or products, YOU DO NOT NEED A DRIVER'S LICENSE.

Legal Definitions of "Driver" and "Traveler":

"Traveler -- One who passes from place to place, whether for pleasure, instruction, business, or health."
Locket vs. State, 47 Ala. 45;
Bovier's Law Dictionary, 1914 ed., Pg. 3309

"Driver -- One employed in conducting a coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle ..."
Bovier's Law Dictionary, 1914 ed., Pg. 940

An example of people who need a driver's license: Taxi drivers and Semi operaters.

You are not a "driver", you are a "traveler".

READ MORE: [link to www.lawfulpath.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44625654





JimsPC2

Whatever works for you.










damn hippies
JimsBlowed
''Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country.''

—President George W. Bush, Sept. 6, 2004
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45127910
United States
08/16/2013 03:02 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
You may not need it to drive on unclaimed and unowned roadways but "public" is not actually defined as "public" when it comes to the Dept of Transportation. Those "public" roadways are actually owned by the state. That state is free to impose laws surrounding usage of the property they own so your argument really only applies to uncharted roadways of the past which no one governs.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45227147
United States
08/16/2013 03:03 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
It's true! You have to be willing to learn a little bit of legalese and be willing to argue/debate your point to whatever moronic lawless officer that pulls you over and doesn't like the idea of you getting a "free ride". But if you stand your ground and follow your protocol you can "legally" get your car back/ticket revoked.

Most people don't have that kind of fight in them though.
Unixlike

User ID: 44908366
United States
08/16/2013 03:07 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
This is very interesting and there may be something to it. however, it really comes down to the wording used in each States laws doesn't it? And there are a lot of laws piled on top of each other stretching out for a hundred years. If any twist or variation can be found to support the State's view then it will probably be used as an excuse by a judge to maintain the status quo.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45127910
United States
08/16/2013 03:08 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
Example

Say you own a home and the property it sits on and you pay taxes on that, etc. you are free to post a "trespassers will be shot onsite" sign and you are technically able to ACT on that "Law" you made applying to your property.

Say someone is walking a dog and under a "dog law" governed by a homeowners association, the dog has no right to poop on sidewalks BUT the bylaws state the dog may dedicate on any lawn or property.

YOUR law about shooting trespassers superceeds the other because once they cross onto your lawn, that dog is in your jurisdiction.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 03:12 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
You may not need it to drive on unclaimed and unowned roadways but "public" is not actually defined as "public" when it comes to the Dept of Transportation. Those "public" roadways are actually owned by the state. That state is free to impose laws surrounding usage of the property they own so your argument really only applies to uncharted roadways of the past which no one governs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45127910


Travelling upon and transporting one's property upon the public roads, which is our Right; and ...
Using the public roads as a place of business or a main instrumentality of business, which is a privilege.
Soma/Comatose

User ID: 32963937
United States
08/16/2013 03:13 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
I have to add:

NTShitAgain
''Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country.''

—President George W. Bush, Sept. 6, 2004
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 03:14 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
"First, it is well established law that the highways of the state are public property, and their primary and preferred use is for private purposes, and that their use for purposes of gain is special and extraordinary which, generally at least, the legislature may prohibit or condition as it sees fit."

Stephenson vs. Rinford, 287 US 251;
Pachard vs Banton, 264 US 140, and cases cited;
Frost and F. Trucking Co. vs. Railroad Commission, 271 US 592;
Railroad commission vs. Inter-City Forwarding Co., 57 SW.2d 290;
Parlett Cooperative vs. Tidewater Lines, 164 A. 313
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45127910
United States
08/16/2013 03:15 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
You may not need it to drive on unclaimed and unowned roadways but "public" is not actually defined as "public" when it comes to the Dept of Transportation. Those "public" roadways are actually owned by the state. That state is free to impose laws surrounding usage of the property they own so your argument really only applies to uncharted roadways of the past which no one governs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45127910


Travelling upon and transporting one's property upon the public roads, which is our Right; and ...
Using the public roads as a place of business or a main instrumentality of business, which is a privilege.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44625654


But the roads are not "public" anymore
Read up on your history
They are owned by each state
They use the word "public" to mean that anyone can use them (Provided they abide by Road Laws)

Just as there are Driving laws with loopholes you mentioned
There are laws on the Road side of things that cover those loopholes
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 03:16 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
This is very interesting and there may be something to it. however, it really comes down to the wording used in each States laws doesn't it? And there are a lot of laws piled on top of each other stretching out for a hundred years. If any twist or variation can be found to support the State's view then it will probably be used as an excuse by a judge to maintain the status quo.
 Quoting: Unixlike


The following argument has been used in at least three states (Pennsylvania, Ohio, and West Virginia) as a legal brief to support a demand for dismissal of charges of "driving without a license." It is the argument that was the reason for the charges to be dropped, or for a "win" in court against the argument that free people can have their right to travel regulated by their servants.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 10032593
Canada
08/16/2013 03:17 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
So out of curiosity do you have a driver's license.?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45006126
Australia
08/16/2013 03:17 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
It's true! You have to be willing to learn a little bit of legalese and be willing to argue/debate your point to whatever moronic lawless officer that pulls you over and doesn't like the idea of you getting a "free ride". But if you stand your ground and follow your protocol you can "legally" get your car back/ticket revoked.

Most people don't have that kind of fight in them though.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45227147


how many times have you done it?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45127910
United States
08/16/2013 03:17 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
"First, it is well established law that the highways of the state are public property, and their primary and preferred use is for private purposes, and that their use for purposes of gain is special and extraordinary which, generally at least, the legislature may prohibit or condition as it sees fit."

Stephenson vs. Rinford, 287 US 251;
Pachard vs Banton, 264 US 140, and cases cited;
Frost and F. Trucking Co. vs. Railroad Commission, 271 US 592;
Railroad commission vs. Inter-City Forwarding Co., 57 SW.2d 290;
Parlett Cooperative vs. Tidewater Lines, 164 A. 313
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44625654


You just DEBUNKED your own loophole!


"First, it is well established law that the highways of the state are public property, and their primary and preferred use is for private purposes, and that their use for purposes of gain is special and extraordinary which, generally at least, the legislature may prohibit or condition as it sees fit."
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 03:18 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
You may not need it to drive on unclaimed and unowned roadways but "public" is not actually defined as "public" when it comes to the Dept of Transportation. Those "public" roadways are actually owned by the state. That state is free to impose laws surrounding usage of the property they own so your argument really only applies to uncharted roadways of the past which no one governs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45127910


Travelling upon and transporting one's property upon the public roads, which is our Right; and ...
Using the public roads as a place of business or a main instrumentality of business, which is a privilege.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44625654


But the roads are not "public" anymore
Read up on your history
They are owned by each state
They use the word "public" to mean that anyone can use them (Provided they abide by Road Laws)

Just as there are Driving laws with loopholes you mentioned
There are laws on the Road side of things that cover those loopholes
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45127910


Provide proof of your claims that roadways are no longer "public".
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 03:22 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
"First, it is well established law that the highways of the state are public property, and their primary and preferred use is for private purposes, and that their use for purposes of gain is special and extraordinary which, generally at least, the legislature may prohibit or condition as it sees fit."

Stephenson vs. Rinford, 287 US 251;
Pachard vs Banton, 264 US 140, and cases cited;
Frost and F. Trucking Co. vs. Railroad Commission, 271 US 592;
Railroad commission vs. Inter-City Forwarding Co., 57 SW.2d 290;
Parlett Cooperative vs. Tidewater Lines, 164 A. 313
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44625654


You just DEBUNKED your own loophole!


"First, it is well established law that the highways of the state are public property, and their primary and preferred use is for private purposes, and that their use for purposes of gain is special and extraordinary which, generally at least, the legislature may prohibit or condition as it sees fit."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45127910


Read it again. "Their use for purposes of gain is special and extraordinary"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45127910
United States
08/16/2013 03:23 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
"Public" property back when those laws were written meant that no one owned it as in unclaimed.
It belonged to everyone and no laws existed governing the road itself

There was a time when you could take your girl out on a dirt road and fuck naked in plain sight because there was no Law on that road. It was truly public.

When the states purchased all the unclaimed public roadways they imposed laws on that strip of land/property which they had every right to since they acquired it. It just retained the term "public roadway" because that's how people know it.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 03:24 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
Gain is the keyword. Give it some time. Legal jargon can be hard to get a grasp on at first.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2268134
Australia
08/16/2013 03:25 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
You may not need it to drive on unclaimed and unowned roadways but "public" is not actually defined as "public" when it comes to the Dept of Transportation. Those "public" roadways are actually owned by the state. That state is free to impose laws surrounding usage of the property they own so your argument really only applies to uncharted roadways of the past which no one governs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45127910


Travelling upon and transporting one's property upon the public roads, which is our Right; and ...
Using the public roads as a place of business or a main instrumentality of business, which is a privilege.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44625654


But the roads are not "public" anymore
Read up on your history
They are owned by each state
They use the word "public" to mean that anyone can use them (Provided they abide by Road Laws)

Just as there are Driving laws with loopholes you mentioned
There are laws on the Road side of things that cover those loopholes
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45127910


Also laws in other countries differ greatly. In Australia you receive a penalty of 6 penalty units should you drive without a license which amounts to a fine of $660 or some jail time. It costs $150 to renew a license for 5 years so you'd have to be fucked in the head to drive without it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45127910
United States
08/16/2013 03:26 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
You see "Public" simply means Government controlled so in the end all you are left with is

Government Controlled roadways
and
Privately Controlled roadways


No more "free land" anywhere
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 03:27 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
I have to add:

:NTShitAgain:
 Quoting: Soma/Comatose


Don't mind the shills (and poor ones at that). You can win by using the law to your advantage. You just have to know your rights. When your parents signed your birth certificate you became a real-life slave to the federal government!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21517034
United States
08/16/2013 03:27 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
Either way, have fun explaining that to the cop when he pulls you over.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 03:28 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
You may not need it to drive on unclaimed and unowned roadways but "public" is not actually defined as "public" when it comes to the Dept of Transportation. Those "public" roadways are actually owned by the state. That state is free to impose laws surrounding usage of the property they own so your argument really only applies to uncharted roadways of the past which no one governs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45127910


Travelling upon and transporting one's property upon the public roads, which is our Right; and ...
Using the public roads as a place of business or a main instrumentality of business, which is a privilege.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44625654


But the roads are not "public" anymore
Read up on your history
They are owned by each state
They use the word "public" to mean that anyone can use them (Provided they abide by Road Laws)

Just as there are Driving laws with loopholes you mentioned
There are laws on the Road side of things that cover those loopholes
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45127910


Also laws in other countries differ greatly. In Australia you receive a penalty of 6 penalty units should you drive without a license which amounts to a fine of $660 or some jail time. It costs $150 to renew a license for 5 years so you'd have to be fucked in the head to drive without it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2268134


We are discussing U.S. law here so your comment is irrelevant.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 03:31 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
You see "Public" simply means Government controlled so in the end all you are left with is

Government Controlled roadways
and
Privately Controlled roadways


No more "free land" anywhere
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45127910


You claims don't hold water and you can't back them up. What I am posting is the truth. Backed by the law. What your posting is opinion, backed by a flouride-ridden mind.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 03:33 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
Either way, have fun explaining that to the cop when he pulls you over.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21517034


That is irrelevant. The only person you need to explain it to is a judge. And when you win the case you can file for damages after.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 44625654
Germany
08/16/2013 03:35 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
So out of curiosity do you have a driver's license.?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10032593


No, and I don't need one. But if say, I was a taxi driver, then yes, I would be required to have a driver's license.

I am not a "driver". I am a "traveler". There is a difference when pertaining to the law.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45227147
United States
08/16/2013 03:36 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
It's true! You have to be willing to learn a little bit of legalese and be willing to argue/debate your point to whatever moronic lawless officer that pulls you over and doesn't like the idea of you getting a "free ride". But if you stand your ground and follow your protocol you can "legally" get your car back/ticket revoked.

Most people don't have that kind of fight in them though.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45227147


how many times have you done it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45006126


Just once. I was riding my motorcycle in the early morning, it was unregistered and uninsured and i straight up told the officer what was going on. I was out for an early ride with my property which I didn't have insured or registered but didn't plan to ride once the sun came up. He let me go.



But I see what you are saying and maybe I don't have the fight in me either (on a daily basis).
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45127910
United States
08/16/2013 03:37 AM
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Re: You DO NOT need a driver's license to operate your automobile on public roads!!!!
You see "Public" simply means Government controlled so in the end all you are left with is

Government Controlled roadways
and
Privately Controlled roadways


No more "free land" anywhere
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45127910


You claims don't hold water and you can't back them up. What I am posting is the truth. Backed by the law. What your posting is opinion, backed by a flouride-ridden mind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44625654


I will back them up in the morning because it's 2am lol

So your point is basically the Laws that exist governing Roadways don't exist and laws regarding a license superceed property & land laws?





GLP