What is it with CHRISTIANS and their worship of HELL??

OP it sounds like you are describing Australians and not Christians.

OP it sounds like you are describing Australians and not Christians.

You know, I think the OP is reacting to 1700 years of 'christian' insanity.

If I hadn't dedicated to reading the bible for myself I would probably have joined him.

Why do you think it says that the 'judgment begins with the house of God'?

Why do you think the Catholic church murdered anyone seeking to translate the bible for almost 1200 years?

Why did Jesus/Paul/Jude/Peter/John all warn about 'false teachers' who betray the 'law of love'?

Respectfully my brother - what does the 'early church' have to do with truth?

This is the same body which KILLED anyone who attempted to translate the bible...

Any development post-Apostle is A-pos-tate. They 'went beyond the things written'.

(particularly their hate filled 'eternal torment' doctrine, which they stole from their Greco-Roman patrons)

Respectfully,
First, I think you need to go back and take a look at early church history - Clement and Origen wrote in about 200 to 300, and I am talking about the time before that for starters.

Second, you can choose to call hell it a "hate filled 'eternal torment' doctrine" - do as you wish, but it's quite logical and necessary if God exists as spelt out in the Bible. I frankly don't have the time to go through a response in detail, because literally volumes have been written on the subject, but some things to ponder:

1) When is a person no longer guilty of committing a crime? If you take a hammer and smash the heads of 5000 baby ducks for giggles - when are you no longer guilty of that disgusting act? How about if you murder people? How about if you rape woman and children? When are you no longer guilty of those crimes? The logical answer is you are always guilty of those crimes - because you did them. You are just as guilty of having committed that murder in 10,000 years as you are today. Just as if you laid down your life to save someone you would still be a hero in 10,000 years: it's you, it's what you did and who you are. You have a responsibility for your actions and how you are remembered in eternity before and by an eternal God - you choose.
2) If God does not have justice, as those who claim He is only love, then do we send the people who have been martyred and tortured in His name to the same place that we send Hitler, pedophiles, rapists, etc?? Does that make sense? It's frankly illogical - there is justice in this universe and that is fair and loving in the end.

I could go on, but, I'm exhausted after a long day and heading to bed, but I thank you for at least having some decency in your post and for wishing to discuss this tonight.

All the best -

God is a scientist.

Which as anyone knows requires experimentation.

Life is a fallen state 'experiment', where the experimenter (GOD) already KNEW the result - something like >90% will fail that experiment and will get tortured in everlasting agony for the amusement of the remaining <10%.

Whoever remembers that they actually volunteered to take part in this deadly 'experiment', can raise their hands!

Even more so, the Experimenter(God) initially created Angels, KNOWING that 1/3 of them will rebel, and put Solar system to waste during their rebelion (just look at Mars, and satellites of some planets).

He couldn't just simply exterminate the Fallen Angels on spot, no, he had to create some several hundred billions of humans as CANNON FODDER in his war vs the Fallen Angels to prove some infi-dimensional POINT in this unique "court case".

That he can pretty much afford to create billions upon billions of souls just to torture them forever as spoils of war none of them wanted to be any part of.

But after all, the Fallen Angels got taught a lesson! So any other creatures of the Universe(s) better not even dare to rebel, or ELSE some other trillion of souls will be created explicitly for eternal suffering!

He loves the doom.

If he didnt he would have done it another way.

But oh well cant go against christian doctrine, no matter how illogical or cruel or insane it is.

And to think..

We laugh our heads of at muslims who blow themselves to bits thinking they will get 72 virgins.

Perhaps christians should have a good long think about their own absurdities before they laugh at those of others.

Just sayin.

Have a good evening.

I'm going to post some scriptures for you to think about, which I believe refute your argument.

But I'm getting tired as well, so it will have to wait until tomorrow.

That is irrational.

Otherwise you suggest that 'loving your neighbor' and meditating on righteous behavior is some 'master plan for world domination'.

Pretty shoddy plan if so, IMO.

The real 'conspiracy' is to keep you ignorant of the transcendent truths of Christianity. Best way to do that is to corrupt the message.

Tada - the church system.

Hmm maybe their butthurt levels went to high and they needed a break from being proven wrong over and over and over again.

Usually by their own words too.
Thats was funny.

OP it sounds like you are describing Australians and not Christians.

I DO believe that there is indeed a hell. A place of punishment for those whose sins have not been eternally accounted for. God's word declares it, so I believe it.

Here's some good news: 1 John 2 points out that the Blood of Christ accounted for everyone's sin - "not ours only, but for the whole world's"

Problem solved :)

Clearly we Christians need to learn about love - perhaps from someone who has proven to be as kind, gentle, loving and intelligent as you??

You are a hypocrite to come on a public forum and talk about how much a group of people hates...all the while hating that group of people. That right there, makes you lose any credibility, but, on top of that, your Biblical scholarship is pathetic at best, and your manners are worse.

Well, the Lamb of God, our Prince of Peace Himself called the Pharisees "vipers" right to their faces. Was He off-base, or did the label fit?

If we believers could get our junk together, there wouldn't be threads like this, because people would see Christ in us. God is doing us quite a favor pointing out our massive incongruencies. But I'm sure that OP was "born altogether in sin" and so forth, to where it somehow invalidates his spot-on assertions, right? That would be par.

Better to be an honest sinner than a two faced lying saint.

OP was dead on the mark.

Eternal" Punishment (Matthew 25:46) Is NOT Found In The Greek New Testament.

The entire concept of eternal or everlasting punishment hinges primarily on a single verse of Scripture-- Matthew 25:46. This is the only place in the entire Bible where we find these two words together AND only in some Bibles. There are over a dozen English translations which do NOT contain the concept of "eternal punishment" on ANY of their pages, NOR the pagan concept of Hell.

The Greek form for "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 is ”kolasin aionion." Kolasin is a noun in the accusative form, singular voice, feminine gender and means "punishment, chastening, correction, to cut-off as in pruning a tree to bare more fruit." "Aionion" is the adjective form of "aion," in the singular form and means "pertaining to an eon or age, an indeterminate period of time." (Note: the two words in many, not all translations become reversed when bringing the Greek into English, that is, "kolasin aionion" literally punishment everlasting is reversed to everlasting punishment so as to make better sense in English.)

"Aionion," as shown above, is the singular form of the adjective of the Greek noun "aion." Many people unfamiliar with the Greek do not realize that the endings of the same word change (inflection) to indicate its mood, case, gender, etc. Therefore, "aionion" may appear with different endings. "Aionion, aioniou, aionios," for example, are all different inflections of the adjective form of the noun "aion."

The noun "aion" in Greek literature has always meant "an indeterminate period of time. It could be as short as the time Jonah spent in the belly of a fish (three days or nights even though the KJV has him in the "belly of Hell" "forever," obviously a mistranslation; see Jonah 2:2, 2:6.), the length of a man's life, or as long as an age.

The Bible speaks of at least 5 "aions" and perhaps many more. If there were "aions" in the past, then aions must have an end. The New Testament writers spoke of "the present wicked aion" which ended during that very generation. Obviously, it was followed by another "aion"-- the "aion" in which we presently live. If there are "aions" to come, it must mean that this one we live in will also end.

There is a verse which says "the consummation of the aions" proving that each "aion" ends. So how can they be eternal?
There is "the coming eon" (Matt.10:30, Luke 18:30
There is "the present wicked eon" (Gal.1:4)
There is "the oncoming eons (future)(Eph.2:7)
There is "the conclusion of the eon (present) (Mt.13:39,40)
There is "the secret concealed from the eons (past) (Eph.3:9)

Plainly, the Greek word "aion" transliterated "eon" cannot mean "eternal." A study into the Greek of the Biblical period and before will bear this out.

"Aionion" is the adjective of the noun "aion."

Since grammar rules mandate an adjective CANNOT take on a greater force than its noun form, it is evident that "aionion" in any of its adjective forms (ios, ou, on) CANNOT possible mean "everlasting" or anything remotely indicating eternity or unending time.

For example, "hourly" cannot mean "pertaining to days, weeks, months, or years. The word MUST mean "pertaining to an hour." Therefore, "aionion," the adjective form of the noun "aion" which clearly means a period of indeterminate TIME, CANNOT mean, "forever and ever, eternal, everlasting, eternity, etc." or other words which connote timelessness or unending ages.

Therefore, those many Bibles which do NOT contain the teaching of everlasting punishment or Hell are true to the original languages of Greek and Hebrew. Those which teach everlasting punishment or Hell are false. Scholars are just as easily subjected to the "traditions of the elders" as the rest of us. It's time to let the original Greek and Hebrew languages of the Bible break down the traditions of men.

"Aion and Aionios"
[link to www.tentmaker.org]

THE GREEK WORD AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS, TRANSLATED Everlasting -- Eternal ( Book)
[link to www.tentmaker.org]


An Analytical Study of Words ( Book)
[link to www.tentmaker.org]

You obviously are a completely brainwashed follower and don't question a damn thing you are taught.

As the story goes, a man was crucified, laid in a tomb and rose again on the 3rd day. So, I ask you, where's the sacrifice????!!!! What did god lose? FUCK ALL!!!

You are the one who has been completely brainwashed by Satan and this wicked world Jezebel. I question everything. I was only born-again of the holy spirit after a life-changing spiritual experience back in 2008. I experienced God personally and had a vision that connected the holy bible as being the true word of God. You know not what you speak of, it's so amusing that the lost think we are the ones who are brainwashed when it is them. And to the last piece, it was no ordinary man, it was the only begotten son of God who died for the sins of the World even though he was sinless himself, he died the awful death of crucifixion and your wretched black heart asks where the sacrifice is? Shame on you.

I already refuted that nonsense.

I proved my point from the Greek translations. The same word that refers to eternal hellfire is used in regards to God's eternal kingdom. Checkmate. And you are the one making the claim that the other sites are right and my one is wrong so it is on you to prove it or else be exposed as a bullshitter which you so clearly are because if you were speaking the Truth, you would have already proven these things. So much fail from you.

The Greek word Aoin is used in regards to God's eternal kingdom as well so your copy and paste job is just full of fail.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

Listen, and listen very carefully. WE DON'T BUY INTO YOUR FEAR BASED RELIGION WITH ITS GOD DAMN HELL!!! SO, STFU!!!

Relax - Beebee will be fine. Don't sweat it. He doesn't need you shaming him; I don't think anyone does.

There are two kingdoms.

The millenial one for 1000 years.

And the next one which involves the new Jerusalem.

The Aion referred to as in the "Age" of the ages is the seventh millenum...the kingdom of the millenium.

Its the final "old" earth age and thats the age that has been erronously termed as "Forever"

One cannot have a plural of a plural.

That is simply your own conjecture. Prove it. This verse says otherwise.



Jhn 12:34

The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: G165 and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?

Christ does not only abide for the Millennial Kingdom but forever more. The verse above proves you are wrong. Nice try but you fail again.

The Greek word Aoin is used in regards to God's eternal kingdom as well so your copy and paste job is just full of fail.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity