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How far should private business be forced to go to accommodate handicap individuals? | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1044117  United States09/17/2013 05:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1044117 United States09/17/2013 05:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.ada.gov] The American with Disablities Act The Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA) prohibits discrimination and ensures equal opportunity for persons with disabilities in employment, State and local government services, public accommodations, commercial facilities, and transportation. It also mandates the establishment of TDD/telephone relay services. The current text of the ADA includes changes made by the ADA Amendments Act of 2008 (P.L. 110-325), which became effective on January 1, 2009. The ADA was originally enacted in public law format and later rearranged and published in the United States Code. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1044117 United States09/17/2013 07:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.ada.gov] ADA UPDATE: A PRIMER FOR SMALL BUSINESS Who is Covered by the ADA? Businesses that provide goods or services to the public are called "public accommodations" in the ADA. The ADA establishes requirements for 12 categories of public accommodations, which include stores, restaurants, bars, service establishments, theaters, hotels, recreational facilities, private museums and schools, doctors' and dentists' offices, shopping malls, and other businesses. Nearly all types of businesses that serve the public are included in the 12 categories, regardless of the size of the business or the age of their buildings. Businesses covered by the ADA are required to modify their business policies and procedures when necessary to serve customers with disabilities and take steps to communicate effectively with customers with disabilities. The ADA also requires businesses to remove architectural barriers in existing buildings and make sure that newly built or altered facilities are constructed to be accessible to individuals with disabilities. "Grandfather provisions" often found in local building codes do not exempt businesses from their obligations under the ADA. |
InsertWittyNameHere  User ID: 45633794  United Kingdom09/18/2013 02:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you actually knew what it was like to have a physical or sensory disability, you would know how far a business should have to go. Why shouldn't we enjoy a movie the same as everyone else does? I wish you could spend a week with a physical or sensory disability, then you might decide that your original post may need altering, as your douche is quite prominent throughout. GLP UK Money Release £5 released in November 2014 Banknote Number MA58 858887 "GLP 2014" Written down right hand side of banknote. |
| BRIEF User ID: 381742 United States09/18/2013 02:58 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 47063462 United Kingdom09/18/2013 02:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 45581443 United States09/18/2013 03:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My girlfriend has MS, and her take is that as long as a good faith effort has been made, it's up to her to work with what they can provide. At least in her case, she does NOT expect everybody should have to pony up to make life easier for her special circumstance. She does, however, favor businesses with easier parking and ramps, so there is a natural business aspect at work there, the way it should be! |
| gheylos User ID: 45101366 United States09/18/2013 03:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 33701212 United States09/18/2013 03:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Businesses, especially small businesses should be charged every expenditure to make handicapped people as well as other minorities feel welcome. There is no price tag on multiculturalism, whatever must be paid must be paid. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1044117 United States09/18/2013 05:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you actually knew what it was like to have a physical or sensory disability, you would know how far a business should have to go. Quoting: InsertWittyNameHere Why shouldn't we enjoy a movie the same as everyone else does? I wish you could spend a week with a physical or sensory disability, then you might decide that your original post may need altering, as your douche is quite prominent throughout. I make my living making handicapped individual's lives better. Our company alters any home or business to fit the needs of the occupants, no matter what the disability. Every day I see what people with disabilities go through. I've worked for hours in houses with handicap children that basically scream all day. You cannot help but notice the effects on the parents and caregivers. It is beyond heartbreaking when you see the sacrifice people make every day. No, I cannot imagine the pain and discomfort of the afflicted they care for. How could I? You are needlessly offended by this thread. I see both sides of the coin, because it is my business. I understand very much the desire for the disabled to enjoy life as much as possible, and do the things others enjoy for granted. I also see the business' side of things as well. Maybe if we could start from scratch, and rebuild everything with the disabled in mind, things would be different. Things just don't work that way. It requires not the law to change now, but people's minds. Developers, architects and contractors, and investors and the like are where it starts. Rather than being forced to comply after a building is up, the handicapped accessibility needs to be in the blueprint. There has to be a happy medium. But what's the answer? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 421922 United States09/18/2013 05:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 35559772 United States09/18/2013 05:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I agree 100%. KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF PRIVATE LIVES AND BUSINESSES/THE MARKETS! I am a Milton Friedman/Thomas Sowell guy so you know I also believe "The Government" has no responsibility here as it is not a person; people have responsibilities toward the welfare of their fellow man. As anyone with common sense knows, money talks and accommodations will be made to produce customers UNLESS it is not economically feasible-same as any other variable affecting overhead.  |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 45580194 United States09/18/2013 05:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Look on your telephone bill: You are still being taxed for "TTY (teletype) for the deaf" A tax for teletype??? This a federal tax imposed on us for over 40 years.. You would think most hearing impaired have been using text messaging, right? |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1044117 United States09/18/2013 05:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Businesses, especially small businesses should be charged every expenditure to make handicapped people as well as other minorities feel welcome. There is no price tag on multiculturalism, whatever must be paid must be paid. Quoting: Barrack Hussein Obama C'mon Barry, you know as well as everyone else that there is a price to be paid for forced multiculturalism. Forcing people of different cultures and beliefs to "get along" whether they want to or not will destroy a country quicker than you can say "Fore!" |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 46840943  Australia09/18/2013 05:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1044117 United States09/18/2013 06:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I agree 100%. KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF PRIVATE LIVES AND BUSINESSES/THE MARKETS! I am a Milton Friedman/Thomas Sowell guy so you know I also believe "The Government" has no responsibility here as it is not a person; people have responsibilities toward the welfare of their fellow man. As anyone with common sense knows, money talks and accommodations will be made to produce customers UNLESS it is not economically feasible-same as any other variable affecting overhead. Plainly stated and true. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1044117 United States09/18/2013 06:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What would you say to a person that comes to your establishment in a wheelchair, and cannot enter because there is no lift for them? What if that person files a complaint and you find yourself facing a fine if you don't make the necessary alterations? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 35559772 United States09/18/2013 06:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What would you say to a person that comes to your establishment in a wheelchair, and cannot enter because there is no lift for them? Quoting: RantProne I am the a/c that said the Friedman thing. I would honestly get another person (employee, more than likely) and we would pick them up and make it work. I think it would become a service that would get me a lot of other new business. Amazing how Biblical principles and free markets actually make everything better for everyone. What if that person files a complaint and you find yourself facing a fine if you don't make the necessary alterations? Quoting: RantProne What if the cost of re-fitting my place of business is cost-prohibitive (e.g. my family can't pay our mortgage or there will be no cash to pay utilities for 2 months at the business, directly causing us to go bankrupt)? That is the real life problem. It unnecessarily only hurts the business (the handicapped person whom was probably not actually offended will get over it and can shop somewhere else but the business owner is ruined for nothing). |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1044117 United States09/18/2013 06:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What would you say to a person that comes to your establishment in a wheelchair, and cannot enter because there is no lift for them? Quoting: RantProne I am the a/c that said the Friedman thing. I would honestly get another person (employee, more than likely) and we would pick them up and make it work. I think it would become a service that would get me a lot of other new business. Amazing how Biblical principles and free markets actually make everything better for everyone. What if that person files a complaint and you find yourself facing a fine if you don't make the necessary alterations? Quoting: RantProne What if the cost of re-fitting my place of business is cost-prohibitive (e.g. my family can't pay our mortgage or there will be no cash to pay utilities for 2 months at the business, directly causing us to go bankrupt)? That is the real life problem. It unnecessarily only hurts the business (the handicapped person whom was probably not actually offended will get over it and can shop somewhere else but the business owner is ruined for nothing). I agree compassion and understanding on an individual level are definitely required in resolving this matter. Two things really lacking in this world. I wonder if compassion was one of the reasons the Fed created the ADA in the first place. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1044117 United States09/18/2013 06:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.ada.gov] The ADA and City Governments: Common Problems Access to civic life by people with disabilities is a fundamental goal of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). To ensure that this goal is met, Title II of the ADA requires State and local governments to make their programs and services accessible to persons with disabilities. This requirement extends not only to physical access at government facilities, programs, and events -- but also to policy changes that governmental entities must make to ensure that all people with disabilities can take part in, and benefit from, the programs and services of State and local governments. In addition, governmental entities must ensure effective communication -- including the provision of necessary auxiliary aids and services -- so that individuals with disabilities can participate in civic life. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 35559772 United States09/18/2013 06:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What would you say to a person that comes to your establishment in a wheelchair, and cannot enter because there is no lift for them? Quoting: RantProne I am the a/c that said the Friedman thing. I would honestly get another person (employee, more than likely) and we would pick them up and make it work. I think it would become a service that would get me a lot of other new business. Amazing how Biblical principles and free markets actually make everything better for everyone. What if that person files a complaint and you find yourself facing a fine if you don't make the necessary alterations? Quoting: RantProne What if the cost of re-fitting my place of business is cost-prohibitive (e.g. my family can't pay our mortgage or there will be no cash to pay utilities for 2 months at the business, directly causing us to go bankrupt)? That is the real life problem. It unnecessarily only hurts the business (the handicapped person whom was probably not actually offended will get over it and can shop somewhere else but the business owner is ruined for nothing). I agree compassion and understanding on an individual level are definitely required in resolving this matter. Two things really lacking in this world. I wonder if compassion was one of the reasons the Fed created the ADA in the first place. You sound like a very reasonable, humble, intelligent and overall nice person. We would probably get along. With that said, I would say, "Somewhat" because old businesses were grandfathered in for the most part, which makes sense. I am ticked about forcing you to comply with the law or be forced into poverty-especially by people that can't make it without sucking the government teat. You are in a great business-see an opportunity, create jobs. I like it. As for the activist judges and our representatives-Christ said it best (as He obviously always does) "Woe to you lawyers also! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers." Putting people out of business for the sake of something that is completely unnecessary is the dumbest thing dreamed up by people that have never worked or never been poor. The "Fed" does nothing out of compassion. Kennedy and all of his "those poor kids in Mississippi" lines for extending welfare and integration was truly only about votes. The ADA was a result of an extension of the 1964 Civil Rights Act to further remove power from the people. It sounds good in theory but the results tend to only hurt white male business owners. However, ADA The ADA was 1990 under NWO Shill GHW Bush. It all sounds wonderful but when you let people getting bribed and paid only by the government, you get fascism and corruption, which is what 95% of every 1964 (Civil Rights) and 1981 (ADA) claim have ever been about in this country. Just thoughts. God bless you. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1044117 United States09/18/2013 06:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What would you say to a person that comes to your establishment in a wheelchair, and cannot enter because there is no lift for them? Quoting: RantProne I am the a/c that said the Friedman thing. I would honestly get another person (employee, more than likely) and we would pick them up and make it work. I think it would become a service that would get me a lot of other new business. Amazing how Biblical principles and free markets actually make everything better for everyone. What if that person files a complaint and you find yourself facing a fine if you don't make the necessary alterations? Quoting: RantProne What if the cost of re-fitting my place of business is cost-prohibitive (e.g. my family can't pay our mortgage or there will be no cash to pay utilities for 2 months at the business, directly causing us to go bankrupt)? That is the real life problem. It unnecessarily only hurts the business (the handicapped person whom was probably not actually offended will get over it and can shop somewhere else but the business owner is ruined for nothing). I agree compassion and understanding on an individual level are definitely required in resolving this matter. Two things really lacking in this world. I wonder if compassion was one of the reasons the Fed created the ADA in the first place. You sound like a very reasonable, humble, intelligent and overall nice person. We would probably get along. With that said, I would say, "Somewhat" because old businesses were grandfathered in for the most part, which makes sense. I am ticked about forcing you to comply with the law or be forced into poverty-especially by people that can't make it without sucking the government teat. You are in a great business-see an opportunity, create jobs. I like it. As for the activist judges and our representatives-Christ said it best (as He obviously always does) "Woe to you lawyers also! For you load people with burdens hard to bear, and you yourselves do not touch the burdens with one of your fingers." Putting people out of business for the sake of something that is completely unnecessary is the dumbest thing dreamed up by people that have never worked or never been poor. The "Fed" does nothing out of compassion. Kennedy and all of his "those poor kids in Mississippi" lines for extending welfare and integration was truly only about votes. The ADA was a result of an extension of the 1964 Civil Rights Act to further remove power from the people. It sounds good in theory but the results tend to only hurt white male business owners. However, ADA The ADA was 1990 under NWO Shill GHW Bush. It all sounds wonderful but when you let people getting bribed and paid only by the government, you get fascism and corruption, which is what 95% of every 1964 (Civil Rights) and 1981 (ADA) claim have ever been about in this country. Just thoughts. God bless you. I think He already did. Just trying to earn it now. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. A very touchy subject this is, but I knew that coming in. God bless. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40628802  New Zealand09/18/2013 06:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 41713542 United States09/18/2013 06:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How far would you go to accommodate a son or daughter who was handicapped? How far would you go to make it easier for paying customers to enter your business so they could spend the money? Simple questions really. I sure don't like the government telling me what to do. Would I go to a lot of lengths to accomplish both questions? Yep. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1044117 United States09/18/2013 07:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How far would you go to accommodate a son or daughter who was handicapped? How far would you go to make it easier for paying customers to enter your business so they could spend the money? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41713542 Simple questions really. I sure don't like the government telling me what to do. Would I go to a lot of lengths to accomplish both questions? Yep. What if the government told you that, even though you did make your business more accessible on your own, you didn't do enough to satisfy the law? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 41713542 United States09/18/2013 09:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How far would you go to accommodate a son or daughter who was handicapped? How far would you go to make it easier for paying customers to enter your business so they could spend the money? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41713542 Simple questions really. I sure don't like the government telling me what to do. Would I go to a lot of lengths to accomplish both questions? Yep. What if the government told you that, even though you did make your business more accessible on your own, you didn't do enough to satisfy the law? Did they document how you didn't fulfill the law's requirements? If so, and they are correct, then what recourse do you have? If not, then it's only a request and not requiring a change only asking you to repair it. Talk to a lawyer, not wasting your time here bellyaching. That is if you want to be in compliance with the law. It sucks all around to be a small business owner. Since the folks who are disabled make up an important consumer niche, and they vote, then why would you expect them to be unable to enter your establishment? It's always like that with people once they organize. Find some to be your advocate, for a judge will likely be the one to arbitrate and if so, then having handicapped folks say, "You know, the owner did make things easier..." is sure better than going in there alone with only a lawyer. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1044117 United States09/18/2013 09:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How far would you go to accommodate a son or daughter who was handicapped? How far would you go to make it easier for paying customers to enter your business so they could spend the money? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41713542 Simple questions really. I sure don't like the government telling me what to do. Would I go to a lot of lengths to accomplish both questions? Yep. What if the government told you that, even though you did make your business more accessible on your own, you didn't do enough to satisfy the law? Did they document how you didn't fulfill the law's requirements? If so, and they are correct, then what recourse do you have? If not, then it's only a request and not requiring a change only asking you to repair it. Talk to a lawyer, not wasting your time here bellyaching. That is if you want to be in compliance with the law. It sucks all around to be a small business owner. Since the folks who are disabled make up an important consumer niche, and they vote, then why would you expect them to be unable to enter your establishment? It's always like that with people once they organize. Find some to be your advocate, for a judge will likely be the one to arbitrate and if so, then having handicapped folks say, "You know, the owner did make things easier..." is sure better than going in there alone with only a lawyer. First, I know what compliance is. I do third-party inspections for many customers, and am the one who informs them of what compliance is. These inspections are mandatory each year. The bellyaching comes mostly from the business owners when we tell them the fee. My concern is about the degree of government regulation into yet another facet of society. Most accommodation/accessibility issues could and should be solved on a county/state level, without Federal government interference. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 47072797 United States09/18/2013 09:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| InsertWittyNameHere User ID: 45633794 United Kingdom09/19/2013 12:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you actually knew what it was like to have a physical or sensory disability, you would know how far a business should have to go. Quoting: InsertWittyNameHere Why shouldn't we enjoy a movie the same as everyone else does? I wish you could spend a week with a physical or sensory disability, then you might decide that your original post may need altering, as your douche is quite prominent throughout. I make my living making handicapped individual's lives better. Our company alters any home or business to fit the needs of the occupants, no matter what the disability. Every day I see what people with disabilities go through. I've worked for hours in houses with handicap children that basically scream all day. You cannot help but notice the effects on the parents and caregivers. It is beyond heartbreaking when you see the sacrifice people make every day. No, I cannot imagine the pain and discomfort of the afflicted they care for. How could I? You are needlessly offended by this thread. I see both sides of the coin, because it is my business. I understand very much the desire for the disabled to enjoy life as much as possible, and do the things others enjoy for granted. I also see the business' side of things as well. Maybe if we could start from scratch, and rebuild everything with the disabled in mind, things would be different. Things just don't work that way. It requires not the law to change now, but people's minds. Developers, architects and contractors, and investors and the like are where it starts. Rather than being forced to comply after a building is up, the handicapped accessibility needs to be in the blueprint. There has to be a happy medium. But what's the answer? I am registered blind. I have to pay for everything to enable me to do things non blind people can do for free. If I want to walk outside, I have to have a white cane that cost me £30, and needs replacing every few months. To use a computer, I cannot just go into pc world and buy a special offer, I have to go to RNIB and buy a computer system costing over £1000. To read my own mail, I either have to ask someone else to read it for me, or buy a cctv screenreader for hundreds of pounds (Because the company sending the letter "doesn't have the facility" (I.e. can't be arsed) to send it in large print - government departments are the worst for this. Cooking a meal involves specialist equipment that is much more expensive than the "mainstream" version. I cannot use an ATM, so cannot access my hard earned money 24 hours a day like other people - unless I give someone my PIN number. I work hard and pay for all of the things I need myself. I work over 40 hours a week, am I not entitled to go to a theatre or cinema, because the premises has to pay a little extra? A one off cost, then a smaller amount every so often for maintenance for very snmall numbers of people to use - who are paying to use the services of the premises after all. I have to buy expensive things all of the time just to enable myself to go out to work and earn money! GLP UK Money Release £5 released in November 2014 Banknote Number MA58 858887 "GLP 2014" Written down right hand side of banknote. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 17578107 United States09/19/2013 12:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How far would you go to accommodate a son or daughter who was handicapped? How far would you go to make it easier for paying customers to enter your business so they could spend the money? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41713542 Simple questions really. I sure don't like the government telling me what to do. Would I go to a lot of lengths to accomplish both questions? Yep. What if the government told you that, even though you did make your business more accessible on your own, you didn't do enough to satisfy the law? Did they document how you didn't fulfill the law's requirements? If so, and they are correct, then what recourse do you have? If not, then it's only a request and not requiring a change only asking you to repair it. Talk to a lawyer, not wasting your time here bellyaching. That is if you want to be in compliance with the law. It sucks all around to be a small business owner. Since the folks who are disabled make up an important consumer niche, and they vote, then why would you expect them to be unable to enter your establishment? It's always like that with people once they organize. Find some to be your advocate, for a judge will likely be the one to arbitrate and if so, then having handicapped folks say, "You know, the owner did make things easier..." is sure better than going in there alone with only a lawyer. First, I know what compliance is. I do third-party inspections for many customers, and am the one who informs them of what compliance is. These inspections are mandatory each year. The bellyaching comes mostly from the business owners when we tell them the fee. My concern is about the degree of government regulation into yet another facet of society. Most accommodation/accessibility issues could and should be solved on a county/state level, without Federal government interference. I'm not familiar with MDs building codes, but my opinion is that everyone should have to follow the International Code Council's accessibility requirements. They have been around for many years and they usually get things right, because they receive input from many people out in the field. |
| Raoulduke User ID: 27927537 United States09/19/2013 01:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This is a service that should be provided yet not cost a small business their potential future to install. Make it open source so the most cost effective, easy to make, durable versions can be realized and installed cheap. Manufacturers for the current absurdly expensive ones, I am sure make a ton of money off them and that is sick. 3D printing will also likely revolutionize this industry. I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. - HST |
