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The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns

 
ObZen Maka
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12/04/2013 04:28 AM
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The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
Looking to buy a gun? Low budget? You're in luck.

I'm making this thread with the intent you'll come back to it as a resource. So to make both the skimmers and the serious buyers happy, I'll attempt to keep it sweet.

We're not all made of money, and we're not about to compromise on reliability or performance. After all, when you need it most, your life or the life of your loved ones will be depending on it. But you already knew that.

You could buy a low end commercial rifle. As this would generally be good for hunting or sport shooting, these weapons by and large are not battle worthy. They're sensitive to the elements, a small amount of debris in the action could disable your weapon. Not to mention the fact a good dinger could compromise it as well.
This is not acceptable.

*Not dissing all commercial rifles either, as you'll read below*

You could buy an AR or AK variant.
Unless you find a great deal, don't expect top quality models for under $600. Most will be made in China, everything else made in China sucks so would you expect different in the gun world?
You may be lucky enough to find a decent AK variant, however they lack long range accuracy and the ammo isn't as readily available in the states. It's also not cheap enough for stockpile under a strict budget.


What are we supposed to do?

I'd like to introduce you to a little term called MILSURP. It would remind one of syrup, but this stands for Military Surplus.
There are numerous advantages to buying Military Surplus gear, especially firearms. They're in high abundance and perform under the worst conditions. They've been tested in greater volume than you would ever find in a commercial rifle. In short, they're made to last.
The average life expectancy of a fresh barrel from a $200 Mosin Nagant is 10x that of even the high end commercial rifle, give or take. They're made to be fired repeatedly for hours without fail. Pretty much, the only things that go wrong with the old rifles are the extractor, striker and striker spring which can be bought for cheap and should always be kept in your Bug Out Bag.

*Take note*
I'm not saying all of the surplus guns are fantastic, but when it all comes down to it these guns are the best you'll get for the money. They are also the most durable firearms available to the public. In the unpredictability of long term battle, I'd choose them over any other.

* Side note *

You can find extremely reliable, quality shotguns for under $300 or less. However, I'd advise against it as a primary SHTF weapon due to it's limited range. When the dust settles, it's the sniper that will rule the streets and hills. You could argue in war, most firefights break out between 50-400 yards. I'd remind you a shotgun isn't good past 50, and a good survivalist should take out his enemy before they're ever an imminent threat. For close engagements and home protection, a sidearm should be utilized.

Our budget in mind... $400 or less.

Your popular options in the world of MILSURP :

( #1 The Mosin Nagant )

Recently, the Mosin Nagant has been the choice of low income preppers worldwide. It's one of the longest serving military rifles in existence. Born in Russia in 1891, this ugly beast has been doing the job since then, and is still in action today. It's among the longest serving military rifles in history, Being used in every major war since it's birth.

To add to it's reputation, it was used by a sniper known as Vasily Zaitsev. In case you haven't heard, this man was responsible for the stand off and eventual repulsion of the Third Reich in Stalingrad. Racking up a mind blowing 250+ kills in just a few months, He created such fear among the troops, Hitler personally sent in the most prestigious marksman in the Reich to kill the man. The most epic sniper standoff in history ensued, guess who won?

Ammo is cheap, it comes in a large 7.62 round which is easily found on the surplus market. If you can find one cheap, get a m37/38 Swiss. P/U scopes are for looks, and are expensive. For a primary I'd suggest a low magnification scope. Maybe even an ACOG.

It's known for its durability and performance regardless of maintenance. The only problem is the sticky bolt, which is an easy fix.

I have extensive experience with this gun, and will tell you.. in the right hands, it can be exceptional.

( #2 Karabiner 98k: The Wehrmacht Rifle )

A design by Mauser originating in 1898. This rifle saw combat in the second world war and is still in service for smaller countries. This weapon was made for Nazi Germany, and later rights were bought by the Soviets. All bygones be bygones, this is one hell of a rifle. Deadly accurate, durable, moderately powerful and pretty much the quality you'd expect from the old Mausers.

It has seen limited use compared to it's competitors, so there is not as much to say about it. I've shot these before, and can tell you it's a great rifle. With the right glass, this rifle will easily break the 600 yard line with flying colors.
e
The 7.92×57mm Mauser Ammunition is moderately priced. It is very powerful, and has excellent long range capabilities. It will also penetrate walls, armor, vehicles and whatever else you deem is in need of some ventilation.

If you're worried about ammo availability and pricing, you may consider a 308 conversion. Choice is yours.

( #3 The Soviet SKS-45 )

This is one of the last of a generation of firearms before the age of the assault rifle. It served extensively in WW2 and onto Viet Nam. It was massively produced in China in the fifties and labeled the "Type-56". As we know, fully automatic rifles are horrendously expensive and the process of getting one is grueling. Some argue this is the best MILSURP SHTF rifle available due to the fact it's Semi-Auto capable and still had longish range capabilities.

Another design in it's favor is the ease of which you can modify it to take high capacity magazines. As well as the ease in which you can put on add-ons. The mounted bayonet is also a cool addition to this rifle

The first drawback is the ammunition. It fires a small 7.62×39mm round, not suitable for long range engagements. It's also uncommon in the US and is expensive.

Another setback is there have been reports of barrel overheating. I haven't witnessed this, so it could be the use of particular styles of ammunition used.

Overall it's a great gun. The Semi-Auto feature is a real plus, the conversion to take a high capacity magazine would be like pumping grampa up with steroids, then giving him bath salts. Crazy shit man.

I could go on all night about these old rifles, but I believe I've gotten the point across. So there you have it. All the tools you'll need to move forward... If you catch my drift. militia
Live Free Or Die ~

Man up Patriots! -
Thread: Calling all Patriots!

SHTF Guide To Bartering - Thread: The SHTF Guide To Bartering

Buying a gun? -
Thread: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2013 04:30 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
SKS.
ObZen Maka  (OP)

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12/04/2013 04:36 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
SKS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50192107


For close range engagements I'd have to agree with you.
Live Free Or Die ~

Man up Patriots! -
Thread: Calling all Patriots!

SHTF Guide To Bartering - Thread: The SHTF Guide To Bartering

Buying a gun? -
Thread: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2013 04:42 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
SKS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50192107


For close range engagements I'd have to agree with you.
 Quoting: ObZen Maka

All around it's the best of the three you listed
cheap ammo
a monkey can shot it
the damn thing is nearly indestructible.
Only a couple of things I don't like about them, there not that accurate and kinda heavy.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2013 04:45 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
I'd also include an M1 Garand on the list of milsurp rifles...and if you can find one, a milspec M14/M1A with GI parts/heavy barrel. Although I like the Mosin (I preferred the M44 carbine variant though) and SKS rifles, the problem is they shoot foreign ammo that would be a lot harder to find post-SHTF. The M1 Garand shoots the 30-06 (a very common hunting round) and the M14/M1A shoots the .308/7.62x51 (again, another very common hunting round and also in NATO use).
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2013 04:50 AM
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Forgot to add another important factor post-SHTF...most 7.62x39 and 7.62x54r are berdan primed and steel cased, making reloading near impossible. The domestic rounds like 30-06 and .308 are boxer primed with brass casings, so they can easily be reloaded for reuse if needed.
ObZen Maka  (OP)

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12/04/2013 05:04 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
I'd also include an M1 Garand on the list of milsurp rifles...and if you can find one, a milspec M14/M1A with GI parts/heavy barrel. Although I like the Mosin (I preferred the M44 carbine variant though) and SKS rifles, the problem is they shoot foreign ammo that would be a lot harder to find post-SHTF. The M1 Garand shoots the 30-06 (a very common hunting round) and the M14/M1A shoots the .308/7.62x51 (again, another very common hunting round and also in NATO use).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49930014



The m44 is my favorite cheap Mosin, aka the "Fireball". The M14s, and M1s are out of the price range I posted but easily top this list. For that price I'd go for an AR and buy some nice glass personally.

The good thing about 7.62 is how cheap they are as this would make it easier to stockpile. Think about the zombies, LOL.
Live Free Or Die ~

Man up Patriots! -
Thread: Calling all Patriots!

SHTF Guide To Bartering - Thread: The SHTF Guide To Bartering

Buying a gun? -
Thread: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2013 05:45 AM
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The m44 is my favorite cheap Mosin, aka the "Fireball". The M14s, and M1s are out of the price range I posted but easily top this list. For that price I'd go for an AR and buy some nice glass personally.

The good thing about 7.62 is how cheap they are as this would make it easier to stockpile. Think about the zombies, LOL.
 Quoting: ObZen Maka


I don't know about that, to get a quality Russian milsurp SKS rifle it will run around $400-$600 with the Chinese rifles in the $350-$450 range, the type M being more expensive usually between $600-$800 but can take AK mags. I've seen Garands in the $600-$900 range, not too much more than the SKS and if patient a quality M14/M1A might be snagged for $1000 or less. With all that said, I certainly agree that right now the best buy out there is a Mosin if the budget is around $400, which can get the rifle and close to a 1000 rounds of ammo at that price point.

I agree that both 7.62x39 and 7.62x54r are cheap to stockpile at the moment. However in a post-SHTF scenario if you have to pick up and change locations, carrying a stockpile of ammo will most likely not be an option. In that case I would favor either a common domestic round that can also be easily reloaded or something like .22 LR that has an ideal volume/weight capacity.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2013 05:46 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
I'd also include an M1 Garand on the list of milsurp rifles...and if you can find one, a milspec M14/M1A with GI parts/heavy barrel. Although I like the Mosin (I preferred the M44 carbine variant though) and SKS rifles, the problem is they shoot foreign ammo that would be a lot harder to find post-SHTF. The M1 Garand shoots the 30-06 (a very common hunting round) and the M14/M1A shoots the .308/7.62x51 (again, another very common hunting round and also in NATO use).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49930014



The m44 is my favorite cheap Mosin, aka the "Fireball". The M14s, and M1s are out of the price range I posted but easily top this list. For that price I'd go for an AR and buy some nice glass personally.

The good thing about 7.62 is how cheap they are as this would make it easier to stockpile. Think about the zombies, LOL.
 Quoting: ObZen Maka


macgun
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12/04/2013 05:55 AM
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Lots of good guns out there. What I like about the AR is that you can carry more ammo than anything else out there. There won't be any resupply for citizen defenders.
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12/04/2013 06:04 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
Looking to buy a gun? Low budget? You're in luck.

I'm making this thread with the intent you'll come back to it as a resource. So to make both the skimmers and the serious buyers happy, I'll attempt to keep it sweet.

We're not all made of money, and we're not about to compromise on reliability or performance. After all, when you need it most, your life or the life of your loved ones will be depending on it. But you already knew that.

You could buy a low end commercial rifle. As this would generally be good for hunting or sport shooting, these weapons by and large are not battle worthy. They're sensitive to the elements, a small amount of debris in the action could disable your weapon. Not to mention the fact a good dinger could compromise it as well.
This is not acceptable.

*Not dissing all commercial rifles either, as you'll read below*

You could buy an AR or AK variant.
Unless you find a great deal, don't expect top quality models for under $600. Most will be made in China, everything else made in China sucks so would you expect different in the gun world?
You may be lucky enough to find a decent AK variant, however they lack long range accuracy and the ammo isn't as readily available in the states. It's also not cheap enough for stockpile under a strict budget.


What are we supposed to do?

I'd like to introduce you to a little term called MILSURP. It would remind one of syrup, but this stands for Military Surplus.
There are numerous advantages to buying Military Surplus gear, especially firearms. They're in high abundance and perform under the worst conditions. They've been tested in greater volume than you would ever find in a commercial rifle. In short, they're made to last.
The average life expectancy of a fresh barrel from a $200 Mosin Nagant is 10x that of even the high end commercial rifle, give or take. They're made to be fired repeatedly for hours without fail. Pretty much, the only things that go wrong with the old rifles are the extractor, striker and striker spring which can be bought for cheap and should always be kept in your Bug Out Bag.

*Take note*
I'm not saying all of the surplus guns are fantastic, but when it all comes down to it these guns are the best you'll get for the money. They are also the most durable firearms available to the public. In the unpredictability of long term battle, I'd choose them over any other.

* Side note *

You can find extremely reliable, quality shotguns for under $300 or less. However, I'd advise against it as a primary SHTF weapon due to it's limited range. When the dust settles, it's the sniper that will rule the streets and hills. You could argue in war, most firefights break out between 50-400 yards. I'd remind you a shotgun isn't good past 50, and a good survivalist should take out his enemy before they're ever an imminent threat. For close engagements and home protection, a sidearm should be utilized.

Our budget in mind... $400 or less.

Your popular options in the world of MILSURP :

( #1 The Mosin Nagant )

Recently, the Mosin Nagant has been the choice of low income preppers worldwide. It's one of the longest serving military rifles in existence. Born in Russia in 1891, this ugly beast has been doing the job since then, and is still in action today. It's among the longest serving military rifles in history, Being used in every major war since it's birth.

To add to it's reputation, it was used by a sniper known as Vasily Zaitsev. In case you haven't heard, this man was responsible for the stand off and eventual repulsion of the Third Reich in Stalingrad. Racking up a mind blowing 250+ kills in just a few months, He created such fear among the troops, Hitler personally sent in the most prestigious marksman in the Reich to kill the man. The most epic sniper standoff in history ensued, guess who won?

Ammo is cheap, it comes in a large 7.62 round which is easily found on the surplus market. If you can find one cheap, get a m37/38 Swiss. P/U scopes are for looks, and are expensive. For a primary I'd suggest a low magnification scope. Maybe even an ACOG.

It's known for its durability and performance regardless of maintenance. The only problem is the sticky bolt, which is an easy fix.

I have extensive experience with this gun, and will tell you.. in the right hands, it can be exceptional.

( #2 Karabiner 98k: The Wehrmacht Rifle )

A design by Mauser originating in 1898. This rifle saw combat in the second world war and is still in service for smaller countries. This weapon was made for Nazi Germany, and later rights were bought by the Soviets. All bygones be bygones, this is one hell of a rifle. Deadly accurate, durable, moderately powerful and pretty much the quality you'd expect from the old Mausers.

It has seen limited use compared to it's competitors, so there is not as much to say about it. I've shot these before, and can tell you it's a great rifle. With the right glass, this rifle will easily break the 600 yard line with flying colors.
e
The 7.92×57mm Mauser Ammunition is moderately priced. It is very powerful, and has excellent long range capabilities. It will also penetrate walls, armor, vehicles and whatever else you deem is in need of some ventilation.

If you're worried about ammo availability and pricing, you may consider a 308 conversion. Choice is yours.

( #3 The Soviet SKS-45 )

This is one of the last of a generation of firearms before the age of the assault rifle. It served extensively in WW2 and onto Viet Nam. It was massively produced in China in the fifties and labeled the "Type-56". As we know, fully automatic rifles are horrendously expensive and the process of getting one is grueling. Some argue this is the best MILSURP SHTF rifle available due to the fact it's Semi-Auto capable and still had longish range capabilities.

Another design in it's favor is the ease of which you can modify it to take high capacity magazines. As well as the ease in which you can put on add-ons. The mounted bayonet is also a cool addition to this rifle

The first drawback is the ammunition. It fires a small 7.62×39mm round, not suitable for long range engagements. It's also uncommon in the US and is expensive.

Another setback is there have been reports of barrel overheating. I haven't witnessed this, so it could be the use of particular styles of ammunition used.

Overall it's a great gun. The Semi-Auto feature is a real plus, the conversion to take a high capacity magazine would be like pumping grampa up with steroids, then giving him bath salts. Crazy shit man.

I could go on all night about these old rifles, but I believe I've gotten the point across. So there you have it. All the tools you'll need to move forward... If you catch my drift. militia
 Quoting: ObZen Maka


I say those are stupid choices..

once the fancy ammo is gone, you have a pretty club.

for survival all one needs is a 22lr and a 12 gauge shotgun


i can pack 3000 rounds of 22lr to your 100 rounds of 308.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2013 06:11 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
Need a gun?

Then you have already lost.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2013 07:33 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
Looking to buy a gun? Low budget? You're in luck.

... snip ...

I could go on all night about these old rifles, but I believe I've gotten the point across. So there you have it. All the tools you'll need to move forward... If you catch my drift. militia
 Quoting: ObZen Maka


I say those are stupid choices..

once the fancy ammo is gone, you have a pretty club.

for survival all one needs is a 22lr and a 12 gauge shotgun


i can pack 3000 rounds of 22lr to your 100 rounds of 308.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49114800



Nice...

It will be a long walk but I'll pick yours up after I use one of my rounds...
ZeuZ

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12/04/2013 07:40 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
This thread is garbage without mentioning the Ruger 10-22.
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for tomorrow,
you may die.
eekers

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12/04/2013 07:52 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
We have 1 and 3

5a

I would also add the shotgun. you can pack shells with other shrapnel if you run out of ammo.

Last Edited by eekers on 12/04/2013 07:54 AM
"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." - T. S. Eliot
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12/04/2013 07:54 AM
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Good luck finding parts for repair. Trust me mail order will not be around. You need to get country specific.
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12/04/2013 08:03 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
you suggest spending up to $400 on a sidearm and up to $600 on a rifle? LoL good advice. How about you say fuck the sidearm and just buy a decent rifle with ammunition.

As an aside the older rifles ARE good. I own a K98 from Mitchells Mausers. Excellent, excellent rifle. My favorite in fact.
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12/04/2013 08:04 AM
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Rifles are great, but chances are, the thing will be at home in a closet or gun safe when you actually need it. For all their comparative disadvantages, a handgun has more practical use due to its size.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2013 08:38 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
I bought SKSs at 89 bucks ea.....schweeet.....
Bizarre Verewolf

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This is very helpful, much appreciated!hf
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Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2013 09:28 AM
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For people in the British Commonwealth pudding club, Lee Enfield 303's are one of the most common guns.

The Lee Enfield was first used in the Boer war against the 98Mauser which led to the longest range rifle battles in history. It was still in use with the Mujahideen fighting the communists in Afghanistan.
Black Unit

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12/04/2013 09:33 AM
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I deer hunt with my mosin. 4 bucks and 2 does, hasnt missed yet.
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12/04/2013 09:42 AM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
12ga pump at the local wally world for $160 plus tax

JB says it's all I need
ObZen Maka  (OP)

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12/04/2013 12:49 PM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
Some of you seemed to miss the main points of the thread.

I specifically stated.. PRIMARY battle rifle.
A 22lr is important for survival, but will not suffice as a primary. It simply does not have the killing power.

~ A sidearm is important, but not relevant to this thread.
~ Shotguns are not a good primary, if you meet an enemy past the 50 yard line you can kiss your ass goodbye.

You are able to find the k98 in 30.06 and 308. You can also convert them to these calibers if you desire.
Live Free Or Die ~

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Thread: Calling all Patriots!

SHTF Guide To Bartering - Thread: The SHTF Guide To Bartering

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Thread: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
EVIL_BEAN_KID

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12/04/2013 01:00 PM
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Lots of good guns out there. What I like about the AR is that you can carry more ammo than anything else out there. There won't be any resupply for citizen defenders.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50473212


you can carry 2x as much .223 as you can 7.62x39? but 1 shot with an AK kills the enemy, it takes 5+ with .223, so your actually worse off.
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EVIL_BEAN_KID

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12/04/2013 01:03 PM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
~ Shotguns are not a good primary, if you meet an enemy past the 50 yard line you can kiss your ass goodbye.


 Quoting: ObZen Maka


people that say this must not know about 12 gauge slugs.

bird shot? buck shot? short range effectiveness. rifled slugs from a smooth barrel? can be effective as far as your willing to practice. people make 200 yards head shots all day long.

Last Edited by CRIMSON-KARMA on 12/04/2013 01:03 PM
SLAM THAT CLAM
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if you meet an enemy past the 50 yard line you can kiss your ass goodbye.

...not suitable for long range engagements.

 Quoting: ObZen Maka


most people don't have the skills to engage hostile targets
at ranges beyond 150yds.

to avoid wasting ammo wait until you can smell them then
open up.

besides, if they are that far away how do they know where
you are?

if they can't see you you are neither a threat nor a target.
EVIL_BEAN_KID

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12/04/2013 01:05 PM
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This thread is garbage without mentioning the Ruger 10-22.
 Quoting: ZeuZ


your right, the ruger 10/22 is garbage. a garbage rifle for tacti-cool little twats to play AR with. its still just a .22 kid, an inaccurate and unreliable one at that.
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EVIL_BEAN_KID

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12/04/2013 01:09 PM
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Looking to buy a gun? Low budget? You're in luck.

... snip ...

I could go on all night about these old rifles, but I believe I've gotten the point across. So there you have it. All the tools you'll need to move forward... If you catch my drift. militia
 Quoting: ObZen Maka


I say those are stupid choices..

once the fancy ammo is gone, you have a pretty club.

for survival all one needs is a 22lr and a 12 gauge shotgun


i can pack 3000 rounds of 22lr to your 100 rounds of 308.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49114800



Nice...

It will be a long walk but I'll pick yours up after I use one of my rounds...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 519793



the sniper fantasy is the most pathetic of all SHTF fantasies
SLAM THAT CLAM
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12/04/2013 01:10 PM
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Remmy 870 and a variety of shells will get a well-meaning amateur farther down the road than most. From squirrel to longpig, you're covered. Sure, you won't be doing those 500 yard snipes, but you weren't gonna do that anyway.
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12/04/2013 01:11 PM
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Re: The Top Three Affordable SHTF Guns
I'd also include an M1 Garand on the list of milsurp rifles...and if you can find one, a milspec M14/M1A with GI parts/heavy barrel. Although I like the Mosin (I preferred the M44 carbine variant though) and SKS rifles, the problem is they shoot foreign ammo that would be a lot harder to find post-SHTF. The M1 Garand shoots the 30-06 (a very common hunting round) and the M14/M1A shoots the .308/7.62x51 (again, another very common hunting round and also in NATO use).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49930014



The m44 is my favorite cheap Mosin, aka the "Fireball". The M14s, and M1s are out of the price range I posted but easily top this list. For that price I'd go for an AR and buy some nice glass personally.

The good thing about 7.62 is how cheap they are as this would make it easier to stockpile. Think about the zombies, LOL.
 Quoting: ObZen Maka


Love my M-44! Fire breathing dragon! When my ammo runs out I can just swing the bayonet out and jab the zombies! Same for my SKS.





GLP