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People don't go to hell for their sins..

 
gracebear  (OP)

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01/09/2014 04:18 AM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
You all know the difference between right and wrong despite your constant arguments. In fact, the more argument the more deception.

Just because so many "get away" with treating other humans like morons doesn't mean that God is a moron.

But you will carry on, won't you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43647980



No one gets away with it in the end.
:gracebear:
I eat, sleep, and breathe God's Grace.
:luv: My Heart Is Taken :luv:
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Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 04:45 AM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
No one gets away with it in the end.
 Quoting: gracebear


Gracey! hf

Just saying hi. lol.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 05:11 AM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Hell does not exist, Grow Up!



[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 05:50 AM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Hell does not exist, Grow Up!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50188980


According to scripture and the bible it does, so unless you can refute the accuracy of the bible (and believe me many have tried and failed) then you have no basis for understanding. Jesus Christ spoke in his own words of it.
Stefan Parlow

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01/09/2014 06:00 AM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Ridiculous nonsense.

A life spent doing good deeds with unselfish motives matters whether or not you've ever heard the name of Jesus or cared to accept the story of his existence.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49801954



Yes, it DOES matter and they are good works that can impact people's lives.
But that can't get you out of the "place" of sin.
Only way out is accepting Christ and believing him, which moves you into a place of righteousness.
 Quoting: gbear


I'm sorry, but you're terribly wrong. Your religion has blinded you into thinking something so nonsensical that I truly feel sorrow for you.

To think that someone cannot be free of sin because they do not believe in the existence of Jesus is so illogical it's a wonder people convince themselves to believe it.

Tell me, can the aboriginal tribes who've never heard the name Jesus never be righteous because of that? Of course they can. Because righteousness is a matter or conduct not a matter of belief.

Do yourself a favor, and remove yourself from this boxed in way of thinking you've resigned yourself to. Believe in Christ, by all means. But this ideology that one must accept Christ or be damned is an absurdity of immense proportions. And this is coming from a person who believes that the Jesus figure indeed lived.

The deeds of our lives will be what we are judged by. The love we've spread. The unselfishness we've shown. These are the things Jesus is concerned with, not whether or not we believed he existed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49801954

+100
I am a mystic. My hp is also in English
[link to christus-spricht.com]

download book: about May 27th, it will be available at amazon or thalia.

More than 400 visions,channelings and mystical experiences given by JESUS CHRIST!
gracebear  (OP)

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01/09/2014 06:01 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
No one gets away with it in the end.
 Quoting: gracebear


Gracey! hf

Just saying hi. lol.
 Quoting: Brightstarz



Hellooo.
Lol, how are you doing? hf

I'm sad my winter break is coming to an end
doubt
:gracebear:
I eat, sleep, and breathe God's Grace.
:luv: My Heart Is Taken :luv:
[[No Private Msgs Please.]]
gracebear  (OP)

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01/09/2014 06:02 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Hell does not exist, Grow Up!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50188980


According to scripture and the bible it does, so unless you can refute the accuracy of the bible (and believe me many have tried and failed) then you have no basis for understanding. Jesus Christ spoke in his own words of it.
 Quoting: Brightstarz



Lol yeah people have tried their hand at trying to do away with the Bible completely but it comes back better than ever each time :)
:gracebear:
I eat, sleep, and breathe God's Grace.
:luv: My Heart Is Taken :luv:
[[No Private Msgs Please.]]
MuadDib987 (nli)

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01/09/2014 06:23 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Hell does not exist, Grow Up!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50188980


According to scripture and the bible it does, so unless you can refute the accuracy of the bible (and believe me many have tried and failed) then you have no basis for understanding. Jesus Christ spoke in his own words of it.
 Quoting: Brightstarz


Actually, "hell" is an English word which didn't even exist until centuries later. The gospels were issued in Greek, and the word which "Jesus" (not even His real name) used was Gehenna, the name of the local landfill. It was a burning, maggot-infested garbage dump. He was warning the people standing right in front of Him about the coming destruction of Jerusalem. When the Romans sacked the city just 40 years later, they dumped the deceased carcasses in Gehenna. Jesus was warning the Pharisees about a specific national judgment that has since come and gone.

Same basics on the topic can be found here. . .
[link to what-the-hell-is-hell.com]


If in fact the classic Hell is real, can you show where in scripture God first announced that sinners go to an afterlife of fire? If it's as serious as Christianity Inc. asserts, God would hopefully have mentioned it to Adam & Eve as soon as possible, right? Yet there's no record of any such discussion. If we follow the history, God also neglected to mention Hell to Cain (world's first murderer), Noah, Abraham, or Moses. The info He gave Moe amounted to volumes of detailed directives, including specifics on how to handle menstruation, yet in all of it, there's no mention of Eternal Damnation - all the punishments for disobedience involved this earthly life: defeat, dishonor, disease, captivity, crop failure, etc.

The concept of Hell has no basis in scripture - it's a pagan fairy tale that was smuggled into God's house and has snowballed into one of the biggest idols we have. The early christians of the first couple of centuries widely believed in the eventual redemption of everyone. But when Rome took control and tainted everything, this view suddenly became "heresy", and ambitious clergy reveled in the idea of endless destruction, by which they could scare commoners into submission. This essentially birthed the dark ages, as understanding of God's saving Grace & Victory was locked away in a dungeon. Church officials became exactly like their warped "god" and had no conscience about burning peasants at the stake for such offenses as asking questions or reading scripture for themselves.
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 06:26 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Hell is your own mind, the bad feeling/conscience you get if done something wrong (sin)
It will keep torturing you until you set it right.

And this applies to all, not just cristians... same thing but differently phrased
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52400167




If there is no hell, then our Creator came to earth in the form of a human and died in vain!

How futile the mind that believes this. If there is no hell, there was no need for a Saviour. And yes, I needed a Saviour... People don't believe in hell because they don't believe they are sinners, or they don't want to give up their sin. People are sinful, there is a hell, and we all need the Saviour! He did not die in vain! He conquered sin, death, and hell!
Mrdlaw4Jc
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01/09/2014 06:30 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Ridiculous nonsense.

A life spent doing good deeds with unselfish motives matters whether or not you've ever heard the name of Jesus or cared to accept the story of his existence.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49801954


Romans 3.1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Matthew 7.21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 06:34 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Hell does not exist, Grow Up!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50188980


According to scripture and the bible it does, so unless you can refute the accuracy of the bible (and believe me many have tried and failed) then you have no basis for understanding. Jesus Christ spoke in his own words of it.
 Quoting: Brightstarz


Actually, "hell" is an English word which didn't even exist until centuries later. The gospels were issued in Greek, and the word which "Jesus" (not even His real name) used was Gehenna, the name of the local landfill. It was a burning, maggot-infested garbage dump. He was warning the people standing right in front of Him about the coming destruction of Jerusalem. When the Romans sacked the city just 40 years later, they dumped the deceased carcasses in Gehenna. Jesus was warning the Pharisees about a specific national judgment that has since come and gone.

Same basics on the topic can be found here. . .
[link to what-the-hell-is-hell.com]


If in fact the classic Hell is real, can you show where in scripture God first announced that sinners go to an afterlife of fire? If it's as serious as Christianity Inc. asserts, God would hopefully have mentioned it to Adam & Eve as soon as possible, right? Yet there's no record of any such discussion. If we follow the history, God also neglected to mention Hell to Cain (world's first murderer), Noah, Abraham, or Moses. The info He gave Moe amounted to volumes of detailed directives, including specifics on how to handle menstruation, yet in all of it, there's no mention of Eternal Damnation - all the punishments for disobedience involved this earthly life: defeat, dishonor, disease, captivity, crop failure, etc.

The concept of Hell has no basis in scripture - it's a pagan fairy tale that was smuggled into God's house and has snowballed into one of the biggest idols we have. The early christians of the first couple of centuries widely believed in the eventual redemption of everyone. But when Rome took control and tainted everything, this view suddenly became "heresy", and ambitious clergy reveled in the idea of endless destruction, by which they could scare commoners into submission. This essentially birthed the dark ages, as understanding of God's saving Grace & Victory was locked away in a dungeon. Church officials became exactly like their warped "god" and had no conscience about burning peasants at the stake for such offenses as asking questions or reading scripture for themselves.
 Quoting: MuadDib987 (nli)


Amazing post.... They won't want to touch this with a 10-foot pole....

cool2
MuadDib987 (nli)

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01/09/2014 06:36 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Hell is your own mind, the bad feeling/conscience you get if done something wrong (sin)
It will keep torturing you until you set it right.

And this applies to all, not just cristians... same thing but differently phrased
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52400167




If there is no hell, then our Creator came to earth in the form of a human and died in vain!

How futile the mind that believes this. If there is no hell, there was no need for a Saviour. And yes, I needed a Saviour... People don't believe in hell because they don't believe they are sinners, or they don't want to give up their sin. People are sinful, there is a hell, and we all need the Saviour! He did not die in vain! He conquered sin, death, and hell!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52708566


Some questions for you: is your life the same as it was before you met Christ? Surely you understand the need for redemption from our inherent corruption, yes?

Is God not worth knowing and walking with simply because He exists, or are you only in this thing for the fire insurance?

cheers
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 06:41 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
The Pagan Doctrine Of Hell:

[link to www.godsplanforall.com]

Hebrew and Greek Words Mistranslated to mean Hell:

[link to www.godsplanforall.com]
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 06:43 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
The 'hell' test:

[link to www.tentmaker.org]
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 06:44 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Hell does not exist, Grow Up!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50188980


According to scripture and the bible it does, so unless you can refute the accuracy of the bible (and believe me many have tried and failed) then you have no basis for understanding. Jesus Christ spoke in his own words of it.
 Quoting: Brightstarz


Actually, "hell" is an English word which didn't even exist until centuries later. The gospels were issued in Greek, and the word which "Jesus" (not even His real name) used was Gehenna, the name of the local landfill. It was a burning, maggot-infested garbage dump. He was warning the people standing right in front of Him about the coming destruction of Jerusalem. When the Romans sacked the city just 40 years later, they dumped the deceased carcasses in Gehenna. Jesus was warning the Pharisees about a specific national judgment that has since come and gone.

Same basics on the topic can be found here. . .
[link to what-the-hell-is-hell.com]


If in fact the classic Hell is real, can you show where in scripture God first announced that sinners go to an afterlife of fire? If it's as serious as Christianity Inc. asserts, God would hopefully have mentioned it to Adam & Eve as soon as possible, right? Yet there's no record of any such discussion. If we follow the history, God also neglected to mention Hell to Cain (world's first murderer), Noah, Abraham, or Moses. The info He gave Moe amounted to volumes of detailed directives, including specifics on how to handle menstruation, yet in all of it, there's no mention of Eternal Damnation - all the punishments for disobedience involved this earthly life: defeat, dishonor, disease, captivity, crop failure, etc.

The concept of Hell has no basis in scripture - it's a pagan fairy tale that was smuggled into God's house and has snowballed into one of the biggest idols we have. The early christians of the first couple of centuries widely believed in the eventual redemption of everyone. But when Rome took control and tainted everything, this view suddenly became "heresy", and ambitious clergy reveled in the idea of endless destruction, by which they could scare commoners into submission. This essentially birthed the dark ages, as understanding of God's saving Grace & Victory was locked away in a dungeon. Church officials became exactly like their warped "god" and had no conscience about burning peasants at the stake for such offenses as asking questions or reading scripture for themselves.
 Quoting: MuadDib987 (nli)


Then why did Jesus HIMSELF preach about it 44 times???
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 06:47 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Then why did Jesus HIMSELF preach about it 44 times???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51545261


He didn't, because you're accepting/believing a mistranslation of term(s) that signified no such concept. Study the etymology of the Hebrew & Greek terminology and you will see that those words NEVER represented the pagan concept of 'eternal hell' or 'eternal torment'... The original doctrine was usurped by the Roman Catholic church....
Mrdlaw4Jc
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01/09/2014 06:51 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Then why did Jesus HIMSELF preach about it 44 times???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51545261


He didn't, because you're accepting/believing a mistranslation of term(s) that signified no such concept. Study the etymology of the Hebrew & Greek terminology and you will see that those words NEVER represented the pagan concept of 'eternal hell' or 'eternal torment'... The original doctrine was usurped by the Roman Catholic church....
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Ok Lets get started with these. Let me know when you are finished and if you'd like more!

Hell

(In the A. V. this word occurs in O. T. Scriptures, cited below, and is the translation of the Hebrew word “sheol,” which signifies the unseen state)

In the R. V. of O. T. it appears only in (Isa 5:14 14:9,15 28:15,18 57:9 Eze 31:16,17 32:21,27 Am 9:2 Jon 2:2 Hab 2:5)

In the R. V., “sheol” is translated “lowest pit” (De 32:22 Ps 86:13)

And it is translated “pit” in (Ps 55:15)

In the R. V. the word “Sheol” itself occurs in the following scriptures (2Sa 22:6 Job 11:8 26:6 Ps 9:17 16:10 18:5 116:3 139:8 Pr 5:5 7:27 9:18 15:11,24 23:14 27:20)

“Sheol” is translated “grave” in A. V. in (Ge 37:35 42:38 44:29,31 1Sa 2:6 1Ki 2:6 9:1 ... Job 7:9 14:13 17:13 21:13 24:19 Ps 6:5 30:3 31:17 49:14,15 88:3 89:48 141:7 Pr 1:12 30:16 Ec 9:10 So 8:6 Ho 13:14)

In the R. V. the Greek word “gehenna” is translated “hell” in the following scriptures (Mt 5:22,29,30 10:28 18:9 23:15,33 Mr 9:43,45,47 Lu 12:5 Jas 3:6)

The R. V. has introduced “Hades,” the word found in the Greek text, which signifies the unseen world, in the following scriptures (Mt 11:23 16:18 Lu 10:15 16:23 Ac 2:27,31 Re 1:18 6:8 20:13,14)
MuadDib987 (nli)

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01/09/2014 06:59 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Then why did Jesus HIMSELF preach about it 44 times???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51545261


He didn't, because you're accepting/believing a mistranslation of term(s) that signified no such concept. Study the etymology of the Hebrew & Greek terminology and you will see that those words NEVER represented the pagan concept of 'eternal hell' or 'eternal torment'... The original doctrine was usurped by the Roman Catholic church....
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Ok Lets get started with these. Let me know when you are finished and if you'd like more!

Hell

(In the A. V. this word occurs in O. T. Scriptures, cited below, and is the translation of the Hebrew word “sheol,” which signifies the unseen state)

In the R. V. of O. T. it appears only in (Isa 5:14 14:9,15 28:15,18 57:9 Eze 31:16,17 32:21,27 Am 9:2 Jon 2:2 Hab 2:5)

In the R. V., “sheol” is translated “lowest pit” (De 32:22 Ps 86:13)

And it is translated “pit” in (Ps 55:15)

In the R. V. the word “Sheol” itself occurs in the following scriptures (2Sa 22:6 Job 11:8 26:6 Ps 9:17 16:10 18:5 116:3 139:8 Pr 5:5 7:27 9:18 15:11,24 23:14 27:20)

“Sheol” is translated “grave” in A. V. in (Ge 37:35 42:38 44:29,31 1Sa 2:6 1Ki 2:6 9:1 ... Job 7:9 14:13 17:13 21:13 24:19 Ps 6:5 30:3 31:17 49:14,15 88:3 89:48 141:7 Pr 1:12 30:16 Ec 9:10 So 8:6 Ho 13:14)

In the R. V. the Greek word “gehenna” is translated “hell” in the following scriptures (Mt 5:22,29,30 10:28 18:9 23:15,33 Mr 9:43,45,47 Lu 12:5 Jas 3:6)

The R. V. has introduced “Hades,” the word found in the Greek text, which signifies the unseen world, in the following scriptures (Mt 11:23 16:18 Lu 10:15 16:23 Ac 2:27,31 Re 1:18 6:8 20:13,14)
 Quoting: Mrdlaw4Jc 51545261


That's good stuff. The fact that they took the liberty of using different terms to translate a single Hebrew word kind if illustrates the subjectivity of the whole matter of translation. They made it say what they thought God meant in each case, instead of simply presenting the text objectively and allowing it to speak for itself.

If sheol = Hell, why exactly is Jacob expecting to go there in Genesis 37:35 when he thinks Joseph is dead?
A: He's not, because sheol is merely "the hereafter".
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 07:01 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Ridiculous nonsense.

A life spent doing good deeds with unselfish motives matters whether or not you've ever heard the name of Jesus or cared to accept the story of his existence.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49801954


It is not our works that give us a ticket to Paradise, it is by the grace supplied through the death and resurrection of Christ. You do realize that many bad people also do good works. Oprah donates millions to various charities as does Bill Gates. By the standard of men these are good people, yet unto God if they have not repented and the spirit does not dwell in them, all of their works are as good as a bag of rags.

Many people give with a motive, many so called Christians give with motive. An example are those who send a 5,000 dollar seed in hopes of a bigger return from God. Another example are those who give for a tax benefit. What good is a gift if it is done with an expectation? We are all filthy rags, we are only justified because Christ paid our penalties.

Op is correct, it isn't our sins that send us to hell. We are all worthy of that punishment, it is simply based on whether or not we choose to accept the free gift of salvation. In other words, we all have a court date, some choose to accept the free lawyer/mediator whom is Christ our savior, he who stands for us before God. Others choose to go it alone and this is a poor plan, remember the old saying "Only a fool represents himself."

If you died tomorrow, are you represented? If not you should consider this before hand because we all will face a ruling someday and it is clear in the mandate that we must have representation, no amount of good works can spare us.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 07:12 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Then why did Jesus HIMSELF preach about it 44 times???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51545261


He didn't, because you're accepting/believing a mistranslation of term(s) that signified no such concept. Study the etymology of the Hebrew & Greek terminology and you will see that those words NEVER represented the pagan concept of 'eternal hell' or 'eternal torment'... The original doctrine was usurped by the Roman Catholic church....
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Ok Lets get started with these. Let me know when you are finished and if you'd like more!

Hell

(In the A. V. this word occurs in O. T. Scriptures, cited below, and is the translation of the Hebrew word “sheol,” which signifies the unseen state)

In the R. V. of O. T. it appears only in (Isa 5:14 14:9,15 28:15,18 57:9 Eze 31:16,17 32:21,27 Am 9:2 Jon 2:2 Hab 2:5)

In the R. V., “sheol” is translated “lowest pit” (De 32:22 Ps 86:13)

And it is translated “pit” in (Ps 55:15)

In the R. V. the word “Sheol” itself occurs in the following scriptures (2Sa 22:6 Job 11:8 26:6 Ps 9:17 16:10 18:5 116:3 139:8 Pr 5:5 7:27 9:18 15:11,24 23:14 27:20)

“Sheol” is translated “grave” in A. V. in (Ge 37:35 42:38 44:29,31 1Sa 2:6 1Ki 2:6 9:1 ... Job 7:9 14:13 17:13 21:13 24:19 Ps 6:5 30:3 31:17 49:14,15 88:3 89:48 141:7 Pr 1:12 30:16 Ec 9:10 So 8:6 Ho 13:14)

In the R. V. the Greek word “gehenna” is translated “hell” in the following scriptures (Mt 5:22,29,30 10:28 18:9 23:15,33 Mr 9:43,45,47 Lu 12:5 Jas 3:6)

The R. V. has introduced “Hades,” the word found in the Greek text, which signifies the unseen world, in the following scriptures (Mt 11:23 16:18 Lu 10:15 16:23 Ac 2:27,31 Re 1:18 6:8 20:13,14)
 Quoting: Mrdlaw4Jc 51545261


When were you planning on studying the etymology of these terms though?

If you did you would recognize that none of them represent the concept of an 'eternal hell' - which is doctrine of pagan origin.

Hebrew theology does not subscribe to any such a concept so how can such a doctrine exist in the Old Testament?

The Greek term 'Hades' was:

A) the name of a mythological 'God'
B) also used to represent an 'underworld' of the dead
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Did Christian theology spawn from Greek mythology???

huh

So the Hebrews did not believe in any such concept of 'eternal hell' and still do not to this day. And the Greeks believed in an 'underworld' that all departed souls went to.... The pagans advocated the doctrine of a 'hell' as a place of 'eternal torment'. The Roman Catholic church used pagan influences to usurp the original christian doctrine/belief and interpretation of the N.T. scripture - which supported the notion of the eventual reconciliation of all souls.

You are free to believe as you wish of course - but you can't believe in 'eternal hell' and claim it's supported by biblical scripture, because any examination of the etymology of the terminology used in the scripture will establish clearly that it's not....
Anonymous Coward
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Then why did Jesus HIMSELF preach about it 44 times???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51545261


He didn't, because you're accepting/believing a mistranslation of term(s) that signified no such concept. Study the etymology of the Hebrew & Greek terminology and you will see that those words NEVER represented the pagan concept of 'eternal hell' or 'eternal torment'... The original doctrine was usurped by the Roman Catholic church....
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Ok Lets get started with these. Let me know when you are finished and if you'd like more!

Hell

(In the A. V. this word occurs in O. T. Scriptures, cited below, and is the translation of the Hebrew word “sheol,” which signifies the unseen state)

In the R. V. of O. T. it appears only in (Isa 5:14 14:9,15 28:15,18 57:9 Eze 31:16,17 32:21,27 Am 9:2 Jon 2:2 Hab 2:5)

In the R. V., “sheol” is translated “lowest pit” (De 32:22 Ps 86:13)

And it is translated “pit” in (Ps 55:15)

In the R. V. the word “Sheol” itself occurs in the following scriptures (2Sa 22:6 Job 11:8 26:6 Ps 9:17 16:10 18:5 116:3 139:8 Pr 5:5 7:27 9:18 15:11,24 23:14 27:20)

“Sheol” is translated “grave” in A. V. in (Ge 37:35 42:38 44:29,31 1Sa 2:6 1Ki 2:6 9:1 ... Job 7:9 14:13 17:13 21:13 24:19 Ps 6:5 30:3 31:17 49:14,15 88:3 89:48 141:7 Pr 1:12 30:16 Ec 9:10 So 8:6 Ho 13:14)

In the R. V. the Greek word “gehenna” is translated “hell” in the following scriptures (Mt 5:22,29,30 10:28 18:9 23:15,33 Mr 9:43,45,47 Lu 12:5 Jas 3:6)

The R. V. has introduced “Hades,” the word found in the Greek text, which signifies the unseen world, in the following scriptures (Mt 11:23 16:18 Lu 10:15 16:23 Ac 2:27,31 Re 1:18 6:8 20:13,14)
 Quoting: Mrdlaw4Jc 51545261


That's good stuff. The fact that they took the liberty of using different terms to translate a single Hebrew word kind if illustrates the subjectivity of the whole matter of translation. They made it say what they thought God meant in each case, instead of simply presenting the text objectively and allowing it to speak for itself.

If sheol = Hell, why exactly is Jacob expecting to go there in Genesis 37:35 when he thinks Joseph is dead?
A: He's not, because sheol is merely "the hereafter".
 Quoting: MuadDib987 (nli)


I don't think you're quoting the correct scripture.

Genesis 33-36
33 And he recognized it and said, “It is my son’s tunic. A wild beast has devoured him. Without doubt Joseph is torn to pieces.” 34 Then Jacob tore his clothes, put sackcloth on his waist, and mourned for his son many days. 35 And all his sons and all his daughters arose to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and he said, “For I shall go down into the grave to my son in mourning.” Thus his father wept for him.

36 Now the Midianites[a] had sold him in Egypt to Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh and captain of the guard.

Sorry, but I have to believe that you are taking a SERIOUS departure from Scripture here. Buy doing so you are preaching doctrines of demons! I think you know where I think that will get you!

Peace out :)
MuadDib987 (nli)

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01/09/2014 07:14 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
it is simply based on whether or not we choose to accept the free gift of salvation
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36693892


When every knee bows and every tongue confesses the Lord, does that not sound like acceptance? We're told it occurs "to the glory of the Lord", so we know they'll be bowing and confessing in genuine sincerity - God has made it clear He what He thinks about people who honor Him with their lips while their hearts are far from Him.

Consider the parable of the two sons. . .the Father assigns them His work, and one son says "yes" but doesn't actually do anything, while the other son says "no", but changes his mind and goes and does what the Father wanted.

Likewise, He tells us that harlots and tax collectors will reach the Kingdom before the professional religionists. Whores and gangsters will be in the Kingdom of God.

But the religionists don't like that, because it infringes on their exclusive club.
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
gracebear  (OP)

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01/09/2014 07:16 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
it is simply based on whether or not we choose to accept the free gift of salvation
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36693892


When every knee bows and every tongue confesses the Lord, does that not sound like acceptance? We're told it occurs "to the glory of the Lord", so we know they'll be bowing and confessing in genuine sincerity - God has made it clear He what He thinks about people who honor Him with their lips while their hearts are far from Him.

Consider the parable of the two sons. . .the Father assigns them His work, and one son says "yes" but doesn't actually do anything, while the other son says "no", but changes his mind and goes and does what the Father wanted.

Likewise, He tells us that harlots and tax collectors will reach the Kingdom before the professional religionists. Whores and gangsters will be in the Kingdom of God.

But the religionists don't like that, because it infringes on their exclusive club.
 Quoting: MuadDib987 (nli)



Hmm your post made me pause.. so are you saying everyone is going to heaven?
:gracebear:
I eat, sleep, and breathe God's Grace.
:luv: My Heart Is Taken :luv:
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Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 07:18 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Grace, when you get bored one day, try exploring this summary for another perspective to contemplate:

[link to www.christianspiritualism.org]
(Synopsis/Summary of the Conclusions at the bottom of the document)
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 07:19 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Those who fail to accept the free payment of their sins, paid by Jesus's death, go to hell because they are still in the prison(place) of sin.
Once you accept Christ you are moved into the place of righteousness.

All the bad deeds are not what send you to hell. The punishment for those sins were judged and punished in the body of Jesus Christ at the cross.
It's what you choose to do with Christ that determines your ultimate fate.

May God's grace find you hf
 Quoting: gbear


When Jesus returns, after the Battle of Armageddon there
will be a judgment to see who goes into the millenium(?).
This APPEARS to be a works judgment, like the Great
White Throne Judgment.
Some people think this IS the Great White Throne Judgment, but that wouldn't exactly make sense.


MATTHEW 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
MuadDib987 (nli)

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01/09/2014 07:22 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Ok Lets get started with these. Let me know when you are finished and if you'd like more!

Hell

(In the A. V. this word occurs in O. T. Scriptures, cited below, and is the translation of the Hebrew word “sheol,” which signifies the unseen state)

In the R. V. of O. T. it appears only in (Isa 5:14 14:9,15 28:15,18 57:9 Eze 31:16,17 32:21,27 Am 9:2 Jon 2:2 Hab 2:5)

In the R. V., “sheol” is translated “lowest pit” (De 32:22 Ps 86:13)

And it is translated “pit” in (Ps 55:15)

In the R. V. the word “Sheol” itself occurs in the following scriptures (2Sa 22:6 Job 11:8 26:6 Ps 9:17 16:10 18:5 116:3 139:8 Pr 5:5 7:27 9:18 15:11,24 23:14 27:20)

“Sheol” is translated “grave” in A. V. in (Ge 37:35 42:38 44:29,31 1Sa 2:6 1Ki 2:6 9:1 ... Job 7:9 14:13 17:13 21:13 24:19 Ps 6:5 30:3 31:17 49:14,15 88:3 89:48 141:7 Pr 1:12 30:16 Ec 9:10 So 8:6 Ho 13:14)

In the R. V. the Greek word “gehenna” is translated “hell” in the following scriptures (Mt 5:22,29,30 10:28 18:9 23:15,33 Mr 9:43,45,47 Lu 12:5 Jas 3:6)

The R. V. has introduced “Hades,” the word found in the Greek text, which signifies the unseen world, in the following scriptures (Mt 11:23 16:18 Lu 10:15 16:23 Ac 2:27,31 Re 1:18 6:8 20:13,14)
 Quoting: Mrdlaw4Jc 51545261


That's good stuff. The fact that they took the liberty of using different terms to translate a single Hebrew word kind if illustrates the subjectivity of the whole matter of translation. They made it say what they thought God meant in each case, instead of simply presenting the text objectively and allowing it to speak for itself.

If sheol = Hell, why exactly is Jacob expecting to go there in Genesis 37:35 when he thinks Joseph is dead?
A: He's not, because sheol is merely "the hereafter".
 Quoting: MuadDib987 (nli)


I don't think you're quoting the correct scripture.

Genesis 33-36
33 And he recognized it and said, “It is my son’s tunic. A wild beast has devoured him. Without doubt Joseph is torn to pieces.” 34 Then Jacob tore his clothes, put sackcloth on his waist, and mourned for his son many days. 35 And all his sons and all his daughters arose to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and he said, “For I shall go down into the grave to my son in mourning.” Thus his father wept for him.

36 Now the Midianites[a] had sold him in Egypt to Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh and captain of the guard.

Sorry, but I have to believe that you are taking a SERIOUS departure from Scripture here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51545261


Didn't you just point out that the Hebrew word for "grave" in Genesis 37:35 is sheol? I'm merely confirming that this word does not mean "Hell", because Jacob would not be talking about going there.



Buy doing so you are preaching doctrines of demons! I think you know where I think that will get you!

Peace out :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51545261


Don't sweat it. The bottom line is that Jesus saves, and He isn't going to take "no" for an answer. How that equals a doctrine of demons I cannot conceive.

1 Corinthians 15 tells us that ultimately, God will become "all in all".

Daniel 2 talks about a Stone, cut without hands, that grinds Nebuchadnezzar's statue to dust, and then grows until it fills the earth. This Stone is Christ and His kingdom.

Habakkuk 2 tells us that eventually, "the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea".

Isaiah 26 tells that when God's judgments are in the earth, its inhabitants will learn righteousness.

Psalm 2 talks about being granted the heathen as an inheritance, and the ends of the earth as a possession.

In Revelation 22, the leaves of the Tree of Life are for the healing of the peoples (Greek = ethnos).

David tells the Father in Psalm 65 "Unto Thee shall all flesh come".

In Revelation, we're told that the gates of New Jerusalem never close. Isaiah 60 elaborates upon this, saying in verse 11 that they remain open so the kings and armies of the nations may be brought within.

These things all describe what Ephesians calls "the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus" to become evident in the coming ages.
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
gracebear  (OP)

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01/09/2014 07:26 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Grace, when you get bored one day, try exploring this summary for another perspective:

[link to www.christianspiritualism.org]
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Thanks for sharing and contributing hf I'll give it a look over.
What do you think of my thread thus far lol
:gracebear:
I eat, sleep, and breathe God's Grace.
:luv: My Heart Is Taken :luv:
[[No Private Msgs Please.]]
MuadDib987 (nli)

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01/09/2014 07:27 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
it is simply based on whether or not we choose to accept the free gift of salvation
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36693892


When every knee bows and every tongue confesses the Lord, does that not sound like acceptance? We're told it occurs "to the glory of the Lord", so we know they'll be bowing and confessing in genuine sincerity - God has made it clear He what He thinks about people who honor Him with their lips while their hearts are far from Him.

Consider the parable of the two sons. . .the Father assigns them His work, and one son says "yes" but doesn't actually do anything, while the other son says "no", but changes his mind and goes and does what the Father wanted.

Likewise, He tells us that harlots and tax collectors will reach the Kingdom before the professional religionists. Whores and gangsters will be in the Kingdom of God.

But the religionists don't like that, because it infringes on their exclusive club.
 Quoting: MuadDib987 (nli)



Hmm your post made me pause.. so are you saying everyone is going to heaven?
 Quoting: gracebear


Technically, heaven is not the goal - God is establishing His kingdom here on earth. So everyone is going to earth ;)

I used to believe in the classic Hell like we're supposed to. I was also a judgmental Pharisee, knee-deep in rancid hypocrisy. Fortunately, God took the time to straighten me out on some key things, and life is altogether different now.

Last Edited by MuadDib987 (nli) on 01/09/2014 07:29 PM
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 07:31 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Grace, when you get bored one day, try exploring this summary for another perspective:

[link to www.christianspiritualism.org]
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


Thanks for sharing and contributing hf I'll give it a look over.
What do you think of my thread thus far lol
 Quoting: gracebear


Grace I think it's an evolving 'work in progress'.

Just remember that as we continue searching and exploring (finding our way), our existing (or preexisting) beliefs and understanding of things will inevitably mature & evolve as part of that process. Nothing wrong with that though, because it's a natural part of life. : )
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2014 07:44 PM
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Re: People don't go to hell for their sins..
Will the psychopath go to hell?
Simply because the part of his brain that regulates empathy is missing or defected. Just like a one legged man being punished for being unable to run a marathon.

Will the Lion go to hell for being a Lion?

Will the Child abuser go to hell whom himself was abused as a kid and didnt know any better?

Will the depressed go to hell?

Will the chronically ill go to hell, simply for not being able to take care of themselves?

Will the ADHD go to hell simply because they have no patience to read the bible.

Will the mentally ill go to hell?

Will Muslim/Hundu/Protestant/Catholic/20000 other known religions go to hell, simply because they picked the wrong religion?



Too many shaky questions. I believe in God most definately, evolution theory is bogus and God almighty is there to help us and give us life and take it away.

God gave the world evil and good, and we always balance in between.


But I never really digested the purpose of Jesus. I know he existed, its well documented, I know he is at least a very very important son of God.

But, I dont get whats the motive of believing in him dying for my sins how ever big or small it would be, would be the only way to heaven. Why such a strange ritual? How could it be possible for anyone to have a sincere genuine emotion for something that alledgedly happened 2k years ago?

I wonder what pages of the Bible have been removed and stored in that deep and dark library of the Vatican.





GLP