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Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide

 
Frayed Knot

User ID: 35406953
United States
01/14/2014 11:07 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Please get off your high horse - no one here is pushing anyone.

If you live in a society, which I think you do, you have some hard decisions to make. If you should have the misfortune to have a horribly deformed baby who will never have a healthy, happy life, then you go right ahead and keep it alive as long as YOU pay the massive bills to care for your own child. We are potentially talking millions of dollars over a lifetime. But if you want society to pay the bills for the rest of the child's life, you better think about the ethics of that demand.

Who are you to condemn those very ill babies to a miserable life anyway? Would you want to be in their shoes?

Why do Christians not seem to care about the deaths of 150 billion perfectly healthy animals that are slaughtered every year just for people to eat? In the natural world, the sickest of babies of all species are wisely left to die.

Have you never had a pet euthanized who was suffering and near death? Or did you leave them to suffer because you were afraid god wouldn't approve? I have and I loved him dearly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


not if they want to live. I cannot murder them. It is a line which when crossed has never resulted in constructive good beyond the short term. Hitler helped the bottom line when he culled the herd. But if I disobey the law for compassion then it is easier the next times. Always results in a spiral. Thou shalt not kill.
 Quoting: Kirk


I sure hope you don't eat meat then. Oh, but I suppose you meant thou shalt not kill Humans. Killing animals isn't really killing? Never mind the wholesale slaughter I mentioned above.

Some non-human primate species have at least the consciousness and abilities of 3- to 4-year-old humans. Are you up at arms when they are killed or abused, or are you just worried about 1-hour-old humans who are not viable beings?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


I only eat animals that are still suckling, seeing as they are not "viable beings".
I have long feared that my sins would return to visit me, and the cost is more than I can bear. - The Patriot
Kirk

User ID: 23299871
United States
01/14/2014 11:10 PM

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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Please get off your high horse - no one here is pushing anyone.

If you live in a society, which I think you do, you have some hard decisions to make. If you should have the misfortune to have a horribly deformed baby who will never have a healthy, happy life, then you go right ahead and keep it alive as long as YOU pay the massive bills to care for your own child. We are potentially talking millions of dollars over a lifetime. But if you want society to pay the bills for the rest of the child's life, you better think about the ethics of that demand.

Who are you to condemn those very ill babies to a miserable life anyway? Would you want to be in their shoes?

Why do Christians not seem to care about the deaths of 150 billion perfectly healthy animals that are slaughtered every year just for people to eat? In the natural world, the sickest of babies of all species are wisely left to die.

Have you never had a pet euthanized who was suffering and near death? Or did you leave them to suffer because you were afraid god wouldn't approve? I have and I loved him dearly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


not if they want to live. I cannot murder them. It is a line which when crossed has never resulted in constructive good beyond the short term. Hitler helped the bottom line when he culled the herd. But if I disobey the law for compassion then it is easier the next times. Always results in a spiral. Thou shalt not kill.
 Quoting: Kirk


I sure hope you don't eat meat then. Oh, but I suppose you meant thou shalt not kill Humans. Killing animals isn't really killing? Never mind the wholesale slaughter I mentioned above.

Some non-human primate species have at least the consciousness and abilities of 3- to 4-year-old humans. Are you up at arms when they are killed or abused, or are you just worried about 1-hour-old humans who are not viable beings?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629

No,lest you be confused God spelled out which animals to eat and which not to eat so murder applies only to humans. What you seem to miss is the real victim in this. Some poor soul agrees to be a murderer when you can wrap wire around yourself and plug it in. Keep your suicide a solo trip. What do you think all those GIs are suiciding for? People who had no idea what would happen to them when their heart saw through their eyes. To take a life is a terrible thing.
Government is a body largely ungoverned.
Frayed Knot

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01/14/2014 11:18 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Let's clear up one thing:

In Oregon, a doctor can only participate in Death with Dignity if the patient has been diagnosed with a terminal disease and is expected to live only another 6 months or less.

So no doctor is going to help out a teenager who is depressed about the prom or whatever.

I don't know about the other states' laws.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


This is absolutely correct.

These euthanasia, right to death laws only apply to terminally ill patients, and to get access to the drugs that end ones life can be a trial. It's not as though these people can simply walk in and demand them.

But my question is why should sane people not have that right if they so choose?
 Quoting: Em18966


Ask a psychologist.
I have long feared that my sins would return to visit me, and the cost is more than I can bear. - The Patriot
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2014 11:24 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Quite a few suicides, saw and experienced hell in their near death experience.


[link to www.youtube.com]


[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32873905
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01/14/2014 11:40 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Perhaps it's already been said on here, but: suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
I appreciate your viewpoint, really. And believe further: what if we just failed/refused to reproduce for our 'masters"? Can there be any stronger urge than to re-PRODUCE for TPTB? Perhaps the core of homophobia?
But I'd like to think that if we're shooting ourselves we're shooting too high. Why must we feel ourselves to be always the hero/heroine? Why can't we just live our lives, and if a revolution is in the cards, must we start with our own deaths? Life sucks. Religion sucks. I have no answers. Can't even say: it gets better! But it just might. Please care for yourself.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2014 11:42 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Please get off your high horse - no one here is pushing anyone.

If you live in a society, which I think you do, you have some hard decisions to make. If you should have the misfortune to have a horribly deformed baby who will never have a healthy, happy life, then you go right ahead and keep it alive as long as YOU pay the massive bills to care for your own child. We are potentially talking millions of dollars over a lifetime. But if you want society to pay the bills for the rest of the child's life, you better think about the ethics of that demand.

Who are you to condemn those very ill babies to a miserable life anyway? Would you want to be in their shoes?

Why do Christians not seem to care about the deaths of 150 billion perfectly healthy animals that are slaughtered every year just for people to eat? In the natural world, the sickest of babies of all species are wisely left to die.

Have you never had a pet euthanized who was suffering and near death? Or did you leave them to suffer because you were afraid god wouldn't approve? I have and I loved him dearly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629




I am a mother of 3 children, two of which were born with disabilities. They have a happy life, filled with love.
Yeah, my middle daughter fits your "horribly deformed" category. Her facial appearance before she had numerous surgeries, garnered nasty remarks from people like you. They called her a "little monster", and told me to keep her at home, because her face disturbed them.
As for the cost, Shriners did all the surgeries for free. Insurance covered most everything else.
Today she is a married mother of 2, with her and her husband expecting their 3rd child next month.
When there is life, there is hope.
 Quoting: tiger1


Congrats, your children were born as viable human beings capable of living an independent life and do not have the severest type of problems that I was talking about. I certainly was not referring to a "horrible deformity" as something that only affected appearance, but rather issues that were mentally and/or physically incapacitating.
Frayed Knot

User ID: 35406953
United States
01/14/2014 11:44 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
I have no answers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32873905

I have long feared that my sins would return to visit me, and the cost is more than I can bear. - The Patriot
Frayed Knot

User ID: 35406953
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01/14/2014 11:51 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Please get off your high horse - no one here is pushing anyone.

If you live in a society, which I think you do, you have some hard decisions to make. If you should have the misfortune to have a horribly deformed baby who will never have a healthy, happy life, then you go right ahead and keep it alive as long as YOU pay the massive bills to care for your own child. We are potentially talking millions of dollars over a lifetime. But if you want society to pay the bills for the rest of the child's life, you better think about the ethics of that demand.

Who are you to condemn those very ill babies to a miserable life anyway? Would you want to be in their shoes?

Why do Christians not seem to care about the deaths of 150 billion perfectly healthy animals that are slaughtered every year just for people to eat? In the natural world, the sickest of babies of all species are wisely left to die.

Have you never had a pet euthanized who was suffering and near death? Or did you leave them to suffer because you were afraid god wouldn't approve? I have and I loved him dearly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629




I am a mother of 3 children, two of which were born with disabilities. They have a happy life, filled with love.
Yeah, my middle daughter fits your "horribly deformed" category. Her facial appearance before she had numerous surgeries, garnered nasty remarks from people like you. They called her a "little monster", and told me to keep her at home, because her face disturbed them.
As for the cost, Shriners did all the surgeries for free. Insurance covered most everything else.
Today she is a married mother of 2, with her and her husband expecting their 3rd child next month.
When there is life, there is hope.
 Quoting: tiger1


Congrats, your children were born as viable human beings capable of living an independent life and do not have the severest type of problems that I was talking about. I certainly was not referring to a "horrible deformity" as something that only affected appearance, but rather issues that were mentally and/or physically incapacitating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


Mental disorders that were considered "incapacitating" a hundred years ago are now successfully treated with medicines. Brain abnormalities that would have caused a person to live out their life in an institution even 50 years ago are now treatable.

You want to kill these children off when medical science is just getting to the point of understanding the brain?

And let's talk about Steven Hawking, shall we?
I have long feared that my sins would return to visit me, and the cost is more than I can bear. - The Patriot
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52917629
United States
01/14/2014 11:52 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Please get off your high horse - no one here is pushing anyone.

If you live in a society, which I think you do, you have some hard decisions to make. If you should have the misfortune to have a horribly deformed baby who will never have a healthy, happy life, then you go right ahead and keep it alive as long as YOU pay the massive bills to care for your own child. We are potentially talking millions of dollars over a lifetime. But if you want society to pay the bills for the rest of the child's life, you better think about the ethics of that demand.

Who are you to condemn those very ill babies to a miserable life anyway? Would you want to be in their shoes?

Why do Christians not seem to care about the deaths of 150 billion perfectly healthy animals that are slaughtered every year just for people to eat? In the natural world, the sickest of babies of all species are wisely left to die.

Have you never had a pet euthanized who was suffering and near death? Or did you leave them to suffer because you were afraid god wouldn't approve? I have and I loved him dearly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


not if they want to live. I cannot murder them. It is a line which when crossed has never resulted in constructive good beyond the short term. Hitler helped the bottom line when he culled the herd. But if I disobey the law for compassion then it is easier the next times. Always results in a spiral. Thou shalt not kill.
 Quoting: Kirk


I sure hope you don't eat meat then. Oh, but I suppose you meant thou shalt not kill Humans. Killing animals isn't really killing? Never mind the wholesale slaughter I mentioned above.

Some non-human primate species have at least the consciousness and abilities of 3- to 4-year-old humans. Are you up at arms when they are killed or abused, or are you just worried about 1-hour-old humans who are not viable beings?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


I only eat animals that are still suckling, seeing as they are not "viable beings".
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


Yes they are. If they weren't suckling, they may be nonviable.

viable: capable of living; especially : having attained such form and development as to be normally capable of surviving outside the mother's womb <a viable fetus>

2: capable of growing or developing <viable seeds> <viable eggs>

3a : capable of working, functioning, or developing adequately <viable alternatives>

b : capable of existence and development as an independent unit <the colony is now a viable state>

c (1) : having a reasonable chance of succeeding <a viable candidate> (2) : financially sustainable <a viable enterprise>
Frayed Knot

User ID: 35406953
United States
01/14/2014 11:52 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Please get off your high horse - no one here is pushing anyone.

If you live in a society, which I think you do, you have some hard decisions to make. If you should have the misfortune to have a horribly deformed baby who will never have a healthy, happy life, then you go right ahead and keep it alive as long as YOU pay the massive bills to care for your own child. We are potentially talking millions of dollars over a lifetime. But if you want society to pay the bills for the rest of the child's life, you better think about the ethics of that demand.

Who are you to condemn those very ill babies to a miserable life anyway? Would you want to be in their shoes?

Why do Christians not seem to care about the deaths of 150 billion perfectly healthy animals that are slaughtered every year just for people to eat? In the natural world, the sickest of babies of all species are wisely left to die.

Have you never had a pet euthanized who was suffering and near death? Or did you leave them to suffer because you were afraid god wouldn't approve? I have and I loved him dearly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629




I am a mother of 3 children, two of which were born with disabilities. They have a happy life, filled with love.
Yeah, my middle daughter fits your "horribly deformed" category. Her facial appearance before she had numerous surgeries, garnered nasty remarks from people like you. They called her a "little monster", and told me to keep her at home, because her face disturbed them.
As for the cost, Shriners did all the surgeries for free. Insurance covered most everything else.
Today she is a married mother of 2, with her and her husband expecting their 3rd child next month.
When there is life, there is hope.
 Quoting: tiger1


Congrats, your children were born as viable human beings capable of living an independent life and do not have the severest type of problems that I was talking about. I certainly was not referring to a "horrible deformity" as something that only affected appearance, but rather issues that were mentally and/or physically incapacitating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


Good to know children are now born viable in your eyes.
I have long feared that my sins would return to visit me, and the cost is more than I can bear. - The Patriot
Frayed Knot

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01/14/2014 11:54 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
...


not if they want to live. I cannot murder them. It is a line which when crossed has never resulted in constructive good beyond the short term. Hitler helped the bottom line when he culled the herd. But if I disobey the law for compassion then it is easier the next times. Always results in a spiral. Thou shalt not kill.
 Quoting: Kirk


I sure hope you don't eat meat then. Oh, but I suppose you meant thou shalt not kill Humans. Killing animals isn't really killing? Never mind the wholesale slaughter I mentioned above.

Some non-human primate species have at least the consciousness and abilities of 3- to 4-year-old humans. Are you up at arms when they are killed or abused, or are you just worried about 1-hour-old humans who are not viable beings?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


I only eat animals that are still suckling, seeing as they are not "viable beings".
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


Yes they are. If they weren't suckling, they may be nonviable.

viable: capable of living; especially : having attained such form and development as to be normally capable of surviving outside the mother's womb <a viable fetus>

2: capable of growing or developing <viable seeds> <viable eggs>

3a : capable of working, functioning, or developing adequately <viable alternatives>

b : capable of existence and development as an independent unit <the colony is now a viable state>

c (1) : having a reasonable chance of succeeding <a viable candidate> (2) : financially sustainable <a viable enterprise>
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


You just described every healthy fetus.
I have long feared that my sins would return to visit me, and the cost is more than I can bear. - The Patriot
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52917629
United States
01/15/2014 12:00 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Please get off your high horse - no one here is pushing anyone.

If you live in a society, which I think you do, you have some hard decisions to make. If you should have the misfortune to have a horribly deformed baby who will never have a healthy, happy life, then you go right ahead and keep it alive as long as YOU pay the massive bills to care for your own child. We are potentially talking millions of dollars over a lifetime. But if you want society to pay the bills for the rest of the child's life, you better think about the ethics of that demand.

Who are you to condemn those very ill babies to a miserable life anyway? Would you want to be in their shoes?

Why do Christians not seem to care about the deaths of 150 billion perfectly healthy animals that are slaughtered every year just for people to eat? In the natural world, the sickest of babies of all species are wisely left to die.

Have you never had a pet euthanized who was suffering and near death? Or did you leave them to suffer because you were afraid god wouldn't approve? I have and I loved him dearly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629




I am a mother of 3 children, two of which were born with disabilities. They have a happy life, filled with love.
Yeah, my middle daughter fits your "horribly deformed" category. Her facial appearance before she had numerous surgeries, garnered nasty remarks from people like you. They called her a "little monster", and told me to keep her at home, because her face disturbed them.
As for the cost, Shriners did all the surgeries for free. Insurance covered most everything else.
Today she is a married mother of 2, with her and her husband expecting their 3rd child next month.
When there is life, there is hope.
 Quoting: tiger1


Congrats, your children were born as viable human beings capable of living an independent life and do not have the severest type of problems that I was talking about. I certainly was not referring to a "horrible deformity" as something that only affected appearance, but rather issues that were mentally and/or physically incapacitating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


Mental disorders that were considered "incapacitating" a hundred years ago are now successfully treated with medicines. Brain abnormalities that would have caused a person to live out their life in an institution even 50 years ago are now treatable.

You want to kill these children off when medical science is just getting to the point of understanding the brain?

And let's talk about Steven Hawking, shall we?
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


Please consider that I'm talking about very severe conditions that will necessitate the patient live in a bed at his parent's house for his entire life. I'm not talking about bipolar disorder or other illnesses that are not diagnosable at birth.

Stephen Hawking was born normal and did not have problems until he was a young adult. Not even relevant to this discussion.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52917629
United States
01/15/2014 12:01 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
...


I sure hope you don't eat meat then. Oh, but I suppose you meant thou shalt not kill Humans. Killing animals isn't really killing? Never mind the wholesale slaughter I mentioned above.

Some non-human primate species have at least the consciousness and abilities of 3- to 4-year-old humans. Are you up at arms when they are killed or abused, or are you just worried about 1-hour-old humans who are not viable beings?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


I only eat animals that are still suckling, seeing as they are not "viable beings".
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


Yes they are. If they weren't suckling, they may be nonviable.

viable: capable of living; especially : having attained such form and development as to be normally capable of surviving outside the mother's womb <a viable fetus>

2: capable of growing or developing <viable seeds> <viable eggs>

3a : capable of working, functioning, or developing adequately <viable alternatives>

b : capable of existence and development as an independent unit <the colony is now a viable state>

c (1) : having a reasonable chance of succeeding <a viable candidate> (2) : financially sustainable <a viable enterprise>
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


You just described every healthy fetus.
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


OK, so what's your point? No one is advocating doing anything to healthy babies.
Anonymous Coward
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01/15/2014 12:03 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Please get off your high horse - no one here is pushing anyone.

If you live in a society, which I think you do, you have some hard decisions to make. If you should have the misfortune to have a horribly deformed baby who will never have a healthy, happy life, then you go right ahead and keep it alive as long as YOU pay the massive bills to care for your own child. We are potentially talking millions of dollars over a lifetime. But if you want society to pay the bills for the rest of the child's life, you better think about the ethics of that demand.

Who are you to condemn those very ill babies to a miserable life anyway? Would you want to be in their shoes?

Why do Christians not seem to care about the deaths of 150 billion perfectly healthy animals that are slaughtered every year just for people to eat? In the natural world, the sickest of babies of all species are wisely left to die.

Have you never had a pet euthanized who was suffering and near death? Or did you leave them to suffer because you were afraid god wouldn't approve? I have and I loved him dearly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629




I am a mother of 3 children, two of which were born with disabilities. They have a happy life, filled with love.
Yeah, my middle daughter fits your "horribly deformed" category. Her facial appearance before she had numerous surgeries, garnered nasty remarks from people like you. They called her a "little monster", and told me to keep her at home, because her face disturbed them.
As for the cost, Shriners did all the surgeries for free. Insurance covered most everything else.
Today she is a married mother of 2, with her and her husband expecting their 3rd child next month.
When there is life, there is hope.
 Quoting: tiger1


Congrats, your children were born as viable human beings capable of living an independent life and do not have the severest type of problems that I was talking about. I certainly was not referring to a "horrible deformity" as something that only affected appearance, but rather issues that were mentally and/or physically incapacitating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


Good to know children are now born viable in your eyes.
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


Sorry, but you're not making sense any more. No, not all children are born viable. Time to check into reality.
Frayed Knot

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01/15/2014 12:09 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
...


I only eat animals that are still suckling, seeing as they are not "viable beings".
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


Yes they are. If they weren't suckling, they may be nonviable.

viable: capable of living; especially : having attained such form and development as to be normally capable of surviving outside the mother's womb <a viable fetus>

2: capable of growing or developing <viable seeds> <viable eggs>

3a : capable of working, functioning, or developing adequately <viable alternatives>

b : capable of existence and development as an independent unit <the colony is now a viable state>

c (1) : having a reasonable chance of succeeding <a viable candidate> (2) : financially sustainable <a viable enterprise>
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


You just described every healthy fetus.
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


OK, so what's your point? No one is advocating doing anything to healthy babies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


Except a few posts ago, you were saying newborn infants weren't "viable".

Sorry, but I see where you people are going with this. One minute you're crying about eating animals, and the next it's only the SEVERELY disabled babies you want to kill.

I know how you people work. You're all over the place with this shit, poking and prodding from every angle until you can tangle someone in your little web of deceit. You make me sick.

Last Edited by Frayed Knot on 01/15/2014 12:10 AM
I have long feared that my sins would return to visit me, and the cost is more than I can bear. - The Patriot
Frayed Knot

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01/15/2014 12:11 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
...




I am a mother of 3 children, two of which were born with disabilities. They have a happy life, filled with love.
Yeah, my middle daughter fits your "horribly deformed" category. Her facial appearance before she had numerous surgeries, garnered nasty remarks from people like you. They called her a "little monster", and told me to keep her at home, because her face disturbed them.
As for the cost, Shriners did all the surgeries for free. Insurance covered most everything else.
Today she is a married mother of 2, with her and her husband expecting their 3rd child next month.
When there is life, there is hope.
 Quoting: tiger1


Congrats, your children were born as viable human beings capable of living an independent life and do not have the severest type of problems that I was talking about. I certainly was not referring to a "horrible deformity" as something that only affected appearance, but rather issues that were mentally and/or physically incapacitating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


Good to know children are now born viable in your eyes.
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


Sorry, but you're not making sense any more. No, not all children are born viable. Time to check into reality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


You're the one that's so unhappy with it. Why don't you just check out?
I have long feared that my sins would return to visit me, and the cost is more than I can bear. - The Patriot
vedklyvare

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Sweden
01/15/2014 12:20 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Sure OP, look at the communist states when they decided to rid themselves of religion; they immediately threw off their shackles and refused to be subjugated under the TPTB.

Oh, wait, that didn't happen, it was exactly the opposite, and OP is a historically ignorant idiot.

"Yadda yadda docile yadda yadda sheep yadda yadda enslaved"

Do you even listen to yourself regurgitating this ignorant, neo-atheist nonsence. Religious adherants have been martyred for their beliefs; tortured, maimed and burnt alive refusing to compromise on mere principle; waged wars; founded countries; assassinated monarchs; overthrown governments; instigated revolutions.

"Those who stand for nothing, will fall for anything"
vedklyvare
Anonymous Coward
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01/15/2014 12:22 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
In many cases, though, there are indignities of dying that people have to suffer through that have nothing to do with pain.

Immobility.

Incontinence.

Inability to eat.

Inability to communicate.
 Quoting: Em18966


Its amazing how enough cocaine heroin DMT LSD Ketamine and cannabis will fix most of the conditions on your list. Your patient may still be incontinent, however.

We've spent so much time looking at poorly medicated dying people that we think they are supposed to look like that.

Medieval pain relief was better than what we have now. They had mandragora.
Anonymous Coward
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01/15/2014 12:31 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Stage 4 here.

My choices are simple.Cut,Burn,Poison.
I am refused pain control cause,I wont allow these choices to take place.

Over counter meds do help but,we wont discuss amounts.
Since this is my reality,I ponder this topic often.

Now with Fuku lurking it becomes even more serious.
With the pain med shortage that is taking place can be extremely worrisome for those terminal.

I don't want to leave those I love but, I also worry about what kind of,later years future do I have?
Will I be able as I am now or will i be in a diaper,looking out a window living off memories of my by-gone youth?

If the choice to exit does happen,I know that my soul wont go to hell,nor will The Supreme Creator punish me. This dimension is punishment enough.

My soul weeps for those that live in constant suffering.
Put in sterile rooms to linger with no real compassion.
Wondering in their minds what evil did they do to have this sort of outcome.

This is truly a deep murky subject.
Thanks OP, for shedding some light on this subject.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52917629
United States
01/15/2014 12:31 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
...


Congrats, your children were born as viable human beings capable of living an independent life and do not have the severest type of problems that I was talking about. I certainly was not referring to a "horrible deformity" as something that only affected appearance, but rather issues that were mentally and/or physically incapacitating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


Good to know children are now born viable in your eyes.
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


Sorry, but you're not making sense any more. No, not all children are born viable. Time to check into reality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


You're the one that's so unhappy with it. Why don't you just check out?
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


Please point out where I said all newborns are nonviable because if I did I must have been writing sloppily, then point out where you got the idea I was unhappy. Oh, I'll just go ahead and answer that. Answer: You totally made that up because just throwing out some words is sufficient for you. You and truth are just not very good friends, I guess.

Your suggestion that I check out surely shows your true colors. You want me to die, yet I'm a healthy human being. I don't think you should die, even If I don't agree with you. Wow! that's some morals you got.

Have a good night.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52917629
United States
01/15/2014 12:59 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Stage 4 here.

My choices are simple.Cut,Burn,Poison.
I am refused pain control cause,I wont allow these choices to take place.

Over counter meds do help but,we wont discuss amounts.
Since this is my reality,I ponder this topic often.

Now with Fuku lurking it becomes even more serious.
With the pain med shortage that is taking place can be extremely worrisome for those terminal.

I don't want to leave those I love but, I also worry about what kind of,later years future do I have?
Will I be able as I am now or will i be in a diaper,looking out a window living off memories of my by-gone youth?

If the choice to exit does happen,I know that my soul wont go to hell,nor will The Supreme Creator punish me. This dimension is punishment enough.

My soul weeps for those that live in constant suffering.
Put in sterile rooms to linger with no real compassion.
Wondering in their minds what evil did they do to have this sort of outcome.

This is truly a deep murky subject.
Thanks OP, for shedding some light on this subject.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51721090


I'm so sorry that you have reached this point in life and I deeply sympathize with the thoughts that must be going through your mind now.

You sound like a good and thoughtful person - don't forget to remind yourself of that. Since you are sincerely wrestling with the questions, I think whatever decisions you come to will be the right ones for you. I truly wish for you no suffering, only peace.

Thank you for posting. Your thoughts are very valuable as they come from someone to whom the question has become all too real.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52936917
United States
01/15/2014 01:08 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Stage 4 here.

My choices are simple.Cut,Burn,Poison.
I am refused pain control cause,I wont allow these choices to take place.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51721090


Have you been offered Hospice? Have you talked to your patient advocate about your pain control situation.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 51721090
United States
01/15/2014 04:35 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Stage 4 here.

My choices are simple.Cut,Burn,Poison.
I am refused pain control cause,I wont allow these choices to take place.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51721090


Have you been offered Hospice? Have you talked to your patient advocate about your pain control situation.
 Quoting: zenobiaphobia


Not so easy on the IHS system.

My type of cancer is slow moving and they more or less want their way.
I mentioned to the Doc that the CDC advised not to Cut,Burn Poison because, studies showed that the cancer would return with a 70% chance for different strains in the cancer family.


That was in 2007 and I haven't sought out side help since.
I will not burden humanity with my suffering for i know there are far more worse cases than I.

I do lots of research on herbs and helpful diets,plus, I live for those I love and that helps.
I'm not a happy saint with all the answers but,I'm still here as long as I can be independent that keeps me motivated.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 51721090
United States
01/15/2014 04:46 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Stage 4 here.

My choices are simple.Cut,Burn,Poison.
I am refused pain control cause,I wont allow these choices to take place.

Over counter meds do help but,we wont discuss amounts.
Since this is my reality,I ponder this topic often.

Now with Fuku lurking it becomes even more serious.
With the pain med shortage that is taking place can be extremely worrisome for those terminal.

I don't want to leave those I love but, I also worry about what kind of,later years future do I have?
Will I be able as I am now or will i be in a diaper,looking out a window living off memories of my by-gone youth?

If the choice to exit does happen,I know that my soul wont go to hell,nor will The Supreme Creator punish me. This dimension is punishment enough.

My soul weeps for those that live in constant suffering.
Put in sterile rooms to linger with no real compassion.
Wondering in their minds what evil did they do to have this sort of outcome.

This is truly a deep murky subject.
Thanks OP, for shedding some light on this subject.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51721090


I'm so sorry that you have reached this point in life and I deeply sympathize with the thoughts that must be going through your mind now.

You sound like a good and thoughtful person - don't forget to remind yourself of that. Since you are sincerely wrestling with the questions, I think whatever decisions you come to will be the right ones for you. I truly wish for you no suffering, only peace.

Thank you for posting. Your thoughts are very valuable as they come from someone to whom the question has become all too real.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


Thank-you AC.
I wont forget..
May you and yours Be Blessed and Loved.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 47245398
Hong Kong
01/15/2014 04:53 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52937525
United States
01/15/2014 05:50 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Well written, OP.
shyrlymyrly

User ID: 52970171
Estonia
01/15/2014 06:28 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Please get off your high horse - no one here is pushing anyone.

If you live in a society, which I think you do, you have some hard decisions to make. If you should have the misfortune to have a horribly deformed baby who will never have a healthy, happy life, then you go right ahead and keep it alive as long as YOU pay the massive bills to care for your own child. We are potentially talking millions of dollars over a lifetime. But if you want society to pay the bills for the rest of the child's life, you better think about the ethics of that demand.

Who are you to condemn those very ill babies to a miserable life anyway? Would you want to be in their shoes?

Why do Christians not seem to care about the deaths of 150 billion perfectly healthy animals that are slaughtered every year just for people to eat? In the natural world, the sickest of babies of all species are wisely left to die.

Have you never had a pet euthanized who was suffering and near death? Or did you leave them to suffer because you were afraid god wouldn't approve? I have and I loved him dearly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629




I am a mother of 3 children, two of which were born with disabilities. They have a happy life, filled with love.
Yeah, my middle daughter fits your "horribly deformed" category. Her facial appearance before she had numerous surgeries, garnered nasty remarks from people like you. They called her a "little monster", and told me to keep her at home, because her face disturbed them.
As for the cost, Shriners did all the surgeries for free. Insurance covered most everything else.
Today she is a married mother of 2, with her and her husband expecting their 3rd child next month.
When there is life, there is hope.
 Quoting: tiger1


So true. I myself was said that I am handicapped when I was little, doctor said that I will be never able to walk. I had minimal cerebral palsy. I had huge pains in my legs. My mother stayed up with me almost every night because I had so much pain I cryed and my mother cryed with me. She still cryes when she remembers it. By the OP's definition I had to be euthanized because I had so much pain, I won't say I didn't want to die, but I am happy I didn't. Now I am a grown person, I have no pain in my legs, I can walk fine and I am a normal person. It is thanks to my mother, who didn't give up. When doctorr said I won't be able to walk, she went to another doctor. Almost everyday we went to hospital, she spent so much time next to me, supporting me. I had every kind of therapy, Chinese massages were the ultimate healer. What if my mother would have decided to euthanize me? I am thankful it was illegal and she didn't give up on me.
I'm a bibletard, sorry for the inconvenience.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 46619613
United States
01/15/2014 06:33 AM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Yes yes, the same ole xerox machine crap, put on the internet over and over and over again...

They want to control you....

They want to keep you in line...

They want to make money keeping you alive....


Yes yes....

Please come up with original ideas, because this crap of posting the same stuff in different ways millions of times a month is getting old atheists.
Em18966  (OP)

User ID: 46357440
United States
01/15/2014 12:46 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Please get off your high horse - no one here is pushing anyone.

If you live in a society, which I think you do, you have some hard decisions to make. If you should have the misfortune to have a horribly deformed baby who will never have a healthy, happy life, then you go right ahead and keep it alive as long as YOU pay the massive bills to care for your own child. We are potentially talking millions of dollars over a lifetime. But if you want society to pay the bills for the rest of the child's life, you better think about the ethics of that demand.

Who are you to condemn those very ill babies to a miserable life anyway? Would you want to be in their shoes?

Why do Christians not seem to care about the deaths of 150 billion perfectly healthy animals that are slaughtered every year just for people to eat? In the natural world, the sickest of babies of all species are wisely left to die.

Have you never had a pet euthanized who was suffering and near death? Or did you leave them to suffer because you were afraid god wouldn't approve? I have and I loved him dearly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629




I am a mother of 3 children, two of which were born with disabilities. They have a happy life, filled with love.
Yeah, my middle daughter fits your "horribly deformed" category. Her facial appearance before she had numerous surgeries, garnered nasty remarks from people like you. They called her a "little monster", and told me to keep her at home, because her face disturbed them.
As for the cost, Shriners did all the surgeries for free. Insurance covered most everything else.
Today she is a married mother of 2, with her and her husband expecting their 3rd child next month.
When there is life, there is hope.
 Quoting: tiger1


Congrats, your children were born as viable human beings capable of living an independent life and do not have the severest type of problems that I was talking about. I certainly was not referring to a "horrible deformity" as something that only affected appearance, but rather issues that were mentally and/or physically incapacitating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52917629


Mental disorders that were considered "incapacitating" a hundred years ago are now successfully treated with medicines. Brain abnormalities that would have caused a person to live out their life in an institution even 50 years ago are now treatable.

You want to kill these children off when medical science is just getting to the point of understanding the brain?

And let's talk about Steven Hawking, shall we?
 Quoting: Frayed Knot


Let's talk about Stephen Hawking.

Stephen Hawking was born 'normal' and with and incredible mind that does not believe in a creator or an afterlife.

He was struck down with a horrible, degenerative, ultimately terminal disease.

Let's see what this incredible genius says about the right to die:

"In an interview which will reignite the heated debate surrounding euthanasia, the 71-year-old cosmologist told the BBC: "We don't let animals suffer, so why humans?"

He said: "I think those who have a terminal illness and are in great pain should have the right to choose to end their lives and those who help them should be free from prosecution.

"But there must be safeguards that the person concerned genuinely wants to end their life and they are not being pressurised into it or have it done without their knowledge or consent, as would have been the case with me.""

[link to www.independent.co.uk]

Stephen Hawking, like myself, recognizes within each individual the sentience, consciousness and awareness to know within THEMSELVES whether or not it is worth it to them to continue living this life.
Em18966  (OP)

User ID: 46357440
United States
01/15/2014 12:54 PM
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Re: Death With Dignity and why TPTB Promote Religion and Discourage Suicide
Stage 4 here.

My choices are simple.Cut,Burn,Poison.
I am refused pain control cause,I wont allow these choices to take place.

Over counter meds do help but,we wont discuss amounts.
Since this is my reality,I ponder this topic often.

Now with Fuku lurking it becomes even more serious.
With the pain med shortage that is taking place can be extremely worrisome for those terminal.

I don't want to leave those I love but, I also worry about what kind of,later years future do I have?
Will I be able as I am now or will i be in a diaper,looking out a window living off memories of my by-gone youth?

If the choice to exit does happen,I know that my soul wont go to hell,nor will The Supreme Creator punish me. This dimension is punishment enough.

My soul weeps for those that live in constant suffering.
Put in sterile rooms to linger with no real compassion.
Wondering in their minds what evil did they do to have this sort of outcome.

This is truly a deep murky subject.
Thanks OP, for shedding some light on this subject.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51721090


I'm sorry that you are in this position.

First, know you're not the only one.

People seem to think that those who choose to end their life (for whatever reason) do so flippantly and without thinking about all aspects of their decision, from their eternal soul to the impact it will have on those around them.

The fact is that nobody lives anyone else's life, feels their pain, or has to live with the consequences of their choices.

Of course you are not going to be punished eternally for ending your own torment, that kind of conditioning is social, not part of the laws of the Universe. You see it all the time in nature.

Only you know how much you can take.

I would never advocate that you take your own life, but I know that many people just like having the peace of mind of having some modicum of control of their ultimate destiny, in a reality that has already stripped them of so much. When your own body and heath and mind betray you, you feel like you are left with very little.

Not to mention we live in a society with a medical industry that thinks it knows so much more than it does about treating the sick, doctors who think they know better than patients what kind of treatments their bodies and minds can endure.

I'm not saying suicide is a great option, an ideal option, a pretty option. I'm just saying that in order to be truly free we need to have control over these types of decisions ourselves, and in a society as technologically advanced as ours, there is no reason that people should have to suffer needlessly.

Much love to you on your journey, and I am going to share with you one of my favorite quotes that always brings me peace:

"This plastic little place is just a step amongst the stairs."