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An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 09:56 PM
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An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
Greetings.

An atheist is defined as a person who denies the existence of God/Deity.

First it is ironic to note that the very definition of Atheist presupposes that there is in fact a God to not believe in. I know, I know that is simply a trick of semantics.

Semantics as it turns out or language in general is at the crux of this issue. We are as humans somewhat trapped within a cage of words - I think Chomsky said something similar. Words are simply symbols of ideas and feelings - metaphors. At any rate we must be careful with how we define things.


To begin let's first talk about something that Atheists certainly do believe in and that is intelligence. Most of the atheists I have had the pleasure of knowing are highly intelligent folk.

I propose to prove the existence of "God" with an appeal to the inherent intelligence of the atheists reading this. I will go a step further by defining God as intelligence itself.

If we stop and think about the one common must-have attribute of God across all major religions it is first and foremost intelligence. Something cannot be a supreme architect of the universe without first being intelligent.

I do not aim to proselytize for any particular religion or dogma here. My aim is simply to prove the existence of a God or supreme intelligence which created and maintains the existence of everything.

If we are defining God as intelligence plus ultra we must then define intelligence. One can get lost in an existential mind fuck of sorts on this one and I intend to avoid that as it would be simply a diversion as are most complicated systems of thought -metaphor upon metaphor they drift farther away from the simple truth of things.

Intelligence I postulate is the existence of an awareness or consciousness as it were that has the ability to create or decode data into patterns or systems for a desired effect.


The opposite of intelligence is chaos. Random, incoherent data or systems that produce no discernible intented effect of any kind.

The way a tree grows is intelligent. It grows up towards the source of it's nourishment and every branch, although not symmetrical achieves an overall balance nonetheless. You don't see trees with branches all one one side which would cause the tree to be imbalanced. That is intelligence.

The geometrical pattern of honeycomb produced by bees is intelligence.

The distance of the sun from the Earth and the distance of the moon from Earth are so perfectly balanced that if either was off by a single degree life would not exist on this planet. That is intelligence.

The mathematical formula that is created by a spiral galaxy is the exact same formula for the spiral pattern from which the hair grows on top of your head. That is intelligence. That mathematical formula is known as the golden ratio and it is found everywhere in nature and in the known universe.

Now, if in fact everything proceeded from the "big bang" what we have is a large explosion which is a moment of pure chaos. How is it that from that we find mathematical proportions and patterns such as the golden ratio as the result of a random explosion? How can the math be the same in a spiral galaxy as it is on your head, in a nautilus shell, in the swirl of cream in your coffee?

To assert that all of that simply happened randomly over billions of years, that it's all just chance is to deny the very intellect that you are using to refute it. The intelligence is there for us to see. How it got there, who can know? What it wants from us, who can know?

The fact is that there is intelligence built into the universe and that intelligence must have been emitted from some kind of consciousness. That is God. Undeniable proof.



Good day.
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 09:58 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
yer bout 3 weeks to late.

god was killed by that st matthew dude on 111
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/01/2014 10:00 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
not intelligent.


yer bout 3 weeks to late.

god was killed by that st matthew dude on 111
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 53740219
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 10:00 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 10:03 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
its easy breath not for 10 minutes :p
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 10:06 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
ya it seems improbable that the universe exploded from nothing, with no intelligence whatsoever behind it, and somehow managed to totally randomly arrange into something like the DNA molecule...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/01/2014 10:07 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
fake intelligence. aka - arrogance.



 Quoting: Dr. Ben Schillen
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/01/2014 10:10 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
which begs the question - who is it that is doing the breathing? ain't it great that we don't have to think about breathing. just happens all by itself. the baby grows from the egg all by itself. who is directing that action?

its easy breath not for 10 minutes :p
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52173999
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 10:11 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
the same forces that cause electrons to orbit protons and neutrons and interactions with other atoms is why the golden ratio exists. whether that was created by some "god" or just the positive and negative attractive electrical forces present in these sub-atomic molecules is speculative at best. also there could have been a point when venus was able to harbor life or even mars. we could lose the ability to harbor live with just a change in solar activity. its all a roll of the dice
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/01/2014 10:18 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
You argue because you want to believe.

Those forces you speak of act with intelligence otherwise there would be nothing to speak of. Are you so arrogant as to presume that intelligence is happenstance? Roll of the dice you say? Who roles those dice?

Energy is never destroyed it only changes form. From whence did the energy first derive?

There are physical laws in science. They are not invented but discovered by men. Why would random chance create laws at all? for what purpose? why bother with gravity or light or any of it? why are their creatures who with their own awareness can perceive these laws? If all started with entropy what would cause that object at rest to suddenly be put into motion? what first cause? why first cause?

To pretend to know enough to dismiss it all to random chance is the epitome of arrogance and stupidity.


the same forces that cause electrons to orbit protons and neutrons and interactions with other atoms is why the golden ratio exists. whether that was created by some "god" or just the positive and negative attractive electrical forces present in these sub-atomic molecules is speculative at best. also there could have been a point when venus was able to harbor life or even mars. we could lose the ability to harbor live with just a change in solar activity. its all a roll of the dice
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33776046
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/01/2014 10:25 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
Atheists?
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 10:29 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
You argue because you want to believe.

Those forces you speak of act with intelligence otherwise there would be nothing to speak of. Are you so arrogant as to presume that intelligence is happenstance? Roll of the dice you say? Who roles those dice?

Energy is never destroyed it only changes form. From whence did the energy first derive?

There are physical laws in science. They are not invented but discovered by men. Why would random chance create laws at all? for what purpose? why bother with gravity or light or any of it? why are their creatures who with their own awareness can perceive these laws? If all started with entropy what would cause that object at rest to suddenly be put into motion? what first cause? why first cause?

To pretend to know enough to dismiss it all to random chance is the epitome of arrogance and stupidity.


the same forces that cause electrons to orbit protons and neutrons and interactions with other atoms is why the golden ratio exists. whether that was created by some "god" or just the positive and negative attractive electrical forces present in these sub-atomic molecules is speculative at best. also there could have been a point when venus was able to harbor life or even mars. we could lose the ability to harbor live with just a change in solar activity. its all a roll of the dice
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33776046

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52417248

what created this creator why is it more logical that intelligence is eternal and that energy is not? why would it be illogical to believe that energy is eternal and that it had to be created? To me that seems more paradoxical. these are my beliefs i am not stating that i am atheist i am just stating that i don't see enough evidence to say there is a god.
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 10:39 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
Logic Fail.

If we are defining God as intelligence

IF does not equal IS

IF does equal supposition.

Intelligence I postulate is the existence of an awareness or consciousness

POSTULATE doe not equal FACT

POSTULATE does equal ASSUME.

The opposite of intelligence is chaos. NO, it's not.

Logic fail. Your PROOF is based on your IFs, assumptions and a stupid conclusion that the opposite of intelligence is chaos.
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 10:45 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
I mean, when you get the definition of atheist wrong in the first sentence, it's hard for me to go and read the rest... so I'm not.

But if you have proof, please submit it to the news and congrats on all the Nobel prizes you're about to win for being the first person to prove god(s).
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/01/2014 10:52 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
no sir it is your logic which has failed.

Do us all a favor and define the God that you do not believe in?

Logic Fail.

If we are defining God as intelligence

IF does not equal IS

IF does equal supposition.

Intelligence I postulate is the existence of an awareness or consciousness

POSTULATE doe not equal FACT

POSTULATE does equal ASSUME.

The opposite of intelligence is chaos. NO, it's not.

Logic fail. Your PROOF is based on your IFs, assumptions and a stupid conclusion that the opposite of intelligence is chaos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52814070
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/01/2014 10:52 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
Then please define Atheist for us then?


I mean, when you get the definition of atheist wrong in the first sentence, it's hard for me to go and read the rest... so I'm not.

But if you have proof, please submit it to the news and congrats on all the Nobel prizes you're about to win for being the first person to prove god(s).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51753516
beebee

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02/01/2014 10:53 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
Greetings.

The fact is that there is intelligence built into the universe and that intelligence must have been emitted from some kind of consciousness. That is God. Undeniable proof.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52417248


Couldn't agree more!! Yet, I'm constantly called an "atheist" at best and a "Satanist" at worst. Why? Because I refuse to acknowledge the demented, psychopathic, blood-thirsty, biblical god as that intelligence you speak of.
beebee
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 10:53 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
One star
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 10:55 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
Greetings.

The fact is that there is intelligence built into the universe and that intelligence must have been emitted from some kind of consciousness. That is God. Undeniable proof.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52417248


Couldn't agree more!! Yet, I'm constantly called an "atheist" at best and a "Satanist" at worst. Why? Because I refuse to acknowledge the demented, psychopathic, blood-thirsty, biblical god as that intelligence you speak of.
 Quoting: beebee


So you're a deist/polydeist then?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/01/2014 10:56 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
You are not an atheist then.


Greetings.

The fact is that there is intelligence built into the universe and that intelligence must have been emitted from some kind of consciousness. That is God. Undeniable proof.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52417248


Couldn't agree more!! Yet, I'm constantly called an "atheist" at best and a "Satanist" at worst. Why? Because I refuse to acknowledge the demented, psychopathic, blood-thirsty, biblical god as that intelligence you speak of.
 Quoting: beebee
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/01/2014 10:57 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
I know there is a supreme being because science and nature provide the proof.

Greetings.

The fact is that there is intelligence built into the universe and that intelligence must have been emitted from some kind of consciousness. That is God. Undeniable proof.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52417248


Couldn't agree more!! Yet, I'm constantly called an "atheist" at best and a "Satanist" at worst. Why? Because I refuse to acknowledge the demented, psychopathic, blood-thirsty, biblical god as that intelligence you speak of.
 Quoting: beebee


So you're a deist/polydeist then?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51753516
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 11:01 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
no sir it is your logic which has failed.

Do us all a favor and define the God that you do not believe in?

Logic Fail.

If we are defining God as intelligence

IF does not equal IS

IF does equal supposition.

Intelligence I postulate is the existence of an awareness or consciousness

POSTULATE doe not equal FACT

POSTULATE does equal ASSUME.

The opposite of intelligence is chaos. NO, it's not.

Logic fail. Your PROOF is based on your IFs, assumptions and a stupid conclusion that the opposite of intelligence is chaos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52814070

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52417248


ha ha, you are so funny. To an atheist, god is an idea, a construct, a fabrication. There is no requirement for it to exist in order to not believe in it.

Come, let us talk about the million story building in new york. The highest in the world?

Don't believe me?

Do us all a favor and define the million story building that you do not believe in?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/01/2014 11:11 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
Analogy fail. A million story building in New York is a single object located in a specific location. If you look it is either there or not there.

God is something entirely different. We are not looking for a single object we are looking for the effect of an intelligent force. You don't look for wind to know it is there, you see it's effect on the trees, on the water, the feel of it on your skin.

Do you believe in Love? You cannot see it or measure it. Do you believe in sadness? Love and sadness are shared by every human - how is that possible that we all share this hard to define, vague feeling called love or sadness? Where is this thing Love located? why does it exist at all? why do we all share it? It certainly has no evolutionary benefit.

Imagine that you don't everything there is to know. Imagine that it is possible that there is a supreme intelligence which created and maintains the universe. Does it take something away from you to believe that?

How do you explain that a spiral galaxy a billion light years away from Earth contains the same mathematical algorithm that controls the way the hair grows from the top of your head? What does random chance theory have to do with that? Admit the intelligence. Admit your arrogance. Be humbled before the awe of something that you cannot ever rationalize yourself away from.




no sir it is your logic which has failed.

Do us all a favor and define the God that you do not believe in?

Logic Fail.

If we are defining God as intelligence

IF does not equal IS

IF does equal supposition.

Intelligence I postulate is the existence of an awareness or consciousness

POSTULATE doe not equal FACT

POSTULATE does equal ASSUME.

The opposite of intelligence is chaos. NO, it's not.

Logic fail. Your PROOF is based on your IFs, assumptions and a stupid conclusion that the opposite of intelligence is chaos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52814070

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52417248


ha ha, you are so funny. To an atheist, god is an idea, a construct, a fabrication. There is no requirement for it to exist in order to not believe in it.

Come, let us talk about the million story building in new york. The highest in the world?

Don't believe me?

Do us all a favor and define the million story building that you do not believe in?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52814070
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/01/2014 11:18 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
can you prove that?

"The distance of the sun from the Earth and the distance of the moon from Earth are so perfectly balanced that if either was off by a single degree life would not exist on this planet. That is intelligence."

With the size of the universe, and how many planets are out there, we would expect this unlikely scenario to occur at least once.
 Quoting: Super Bowl Dave
Halcyon Dayz, FCD

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02/01/2014 11:22 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
can you prove that?

"The distance of the sun from the Earth and the distance of the moon from Earth are so perfectly balanced that if either was off by a single degree life would not exist on this planet. That is intelligence."

With the size of the universe, and how many planets are out there, we would expect this unlikely scenario to occur at least once.
 Quoting: Super Bowl Dave

 Quoting: Anonymous OP 52417248

Oh, the irony...
book
Reaching for the sky makes you taller.

Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
With the size of the universe, and how many planets are out there, we would expect this unlikely scenario to occur at least once.

Hate to break it to you my friend, but there is no out there.

Every thing in your experience is created within you based on information sent from your sensory organs to some location where it is processed and created.

Light does not enter the brain.

It is made there.
Bending Light

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02/01/2014 11:30 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
godsdesign
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2014 11:58 PM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
An atheist is defined as a person who denies the existence of God/Deity.

First it is ironic to note that the very definition of Atheist presupposes that there is in fact a God to not believe in. I know, I know that is simply a trick of semantics.

some atheist do deny the existence of a god/deity, others do not BELIEVE there is a god/deity. The two are seperate ideas.

Your second sentence is also wrong: denying the existence of something does not prove the thing exists; I deny the existence of pixies, therefore they exist.

I skipped most of the rest because if you start wrong then who knows how bad it will become...

then we get to this:

"..
The fact is that there is intelligence built into the universe.."

you said FACT.. you have not demonstrated this, nor have you demonstrated INTELLIGENCE.

you still need to show proof.
All you have done is look around, seen something pretty and said "AH.. this MUST have been created by a god."

The ONLY proof of gods existence is GOD. Bring forth your god.
Manu-K

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02/02/2014 12:03 AM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
You can argue the existence of a creator and I may listen. If you suddenly say that creator is Yahweh(or any other mythological god), then I stop listening.

Last Edited by Manu-K on 02/02/2014 12:07 AM
Banned as usual.

“It is far easier to be a weakling than to be a Real Man. Were the Earth less harsh or the circumstances of life less austere, man would destroy himself before the shrine of the languid goddess. Only Real Men can with safety destroy the tangled forests and wilderness of Earth and make from them gardens, but will those who inherit the gardens be Real Men? The law decrees that they must be, or the wilderness will reclaim its own.”
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2014 12:12 AM
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Re: An open invitation to all Atheists. Proof of God's Existence.
I believe in faeries





GLP