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Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???

 
RDprofessor
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02/11/2014 08:32 AM
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Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
1. The Federal Reserve supposedly derives its powers
at the express pleasure of the U.S. Congress.
2. The Federal Reserve Chair is appointed by the
U.S. President.
3. The Federal Reserve digitally creates real dollars
and uses them without Congressional oversight.
4. The Federal Reserve is currently carrying 4 Trillion
in U.S. debt.
5. Everyone on TV wants to know how the Fed will unwind
this balance sheet, by selling the debt to the markets,
or by holding the debt to maturity.
6. The U.S. taxpayer is paying interest on money created
at zero cost with full benefit of interest paid to the
consortium of banks headed by the Federal Reserve.
7. The Federal Reserve can never really take a loss, because
it always has a zero cost basis.
8. If the Federal Reserve serves American interests, why
don't they talk about canceling the debt off the U.S.
deficit by retiring the debt securities they hold ?

discuss.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2014 08:35 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Is the Federal Reserve "good for Israel"?
Useless Cookie Eater

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02/11/2014 08:35 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Discuss??



Discuss this.



homlsdpt
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02/11/2014 08:35 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
1) cruise

2) cruise
KipKat

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02/11/2014 08:36 AM

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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Because it is a private institution. They are not giving away their money, they give away yours and charge you for it!
:kkwapper:
RDprofessor  (OP)

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02/11/2014 08:40 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Is the Federal Reserve "good for Israel"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22323415


Why, Yes ! The Federal Reserve Vice-Chair is the
former head of the Bank of Israel, Stanley Fischer.
That being the same bank which laundered billions
for Bernie Madoff which the U.S. never regained,
rather than taking the money back, the U.S. government
saw fit to charge the U.S. taxpayer for making restitution
payments to Madoff victims. Yay !
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2014 08:49 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Discuss??



Discuss this.



:homlsdpt:
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


The Fed create bought that with money that it created out of thin air. Other than expenses used to make the transaction they should retire it for the good of mankind.
Epic Beard Guy

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02/11/2014 08:52 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Have you ever heard of a banker giving away money? They never do, and this is a lot of money. People have the mistaken impression that the fed is a government agency. They are not. The fed is a group of private banks, mostly (if not all) Rothschilds banks.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2014 08:53 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Because it is a private institution. They are not giving away their money, they give away yours and charge you for it!
 Quoting: KipKat


Via Force Majeure The Fed should be commandeered by a lawful Federal Government. The scum sitting in the Democrat Republican system will never do that.
Useless Cookie Eater

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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Discuss??



Discuss this.



homlsdpt
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


The Fed create bought that with money that it created out of thin air. Other than expenses used to make the transaction they should retire it for the good of mankind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 798561


People who ORDER other people to "DISCUSS" a topic???

fofo
RDprofessor  (OP)

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02/11/2014 09:08 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Discuss??



Discuss this.



homlsdpt
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


The Fed create bought that with money that it created out of thin air. Other than expenses used to make the transaction they should retire it for the good of mankind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 798561


People who ORDER other people to "DISCUSS" a topic???

fofo
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


DISCUSS, PEON.
Useless Cookie Eater

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02/11/2014 09:10 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Discuss??



Discuss this.



homlsdpt
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


The Fed create bought that with money that it created out of thin air. Other than expenses used to make the transaction they should retire it for the good of mankind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 798561


People who ORDER other people to "DISCUSS" a topic???

fofo
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


DISCUSS, PEON.
 Quoting: RDprofessor


esand
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02/11/2014 09:11 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Is the Federal Reserve "good for Israel"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22323415


Why, Yes ! The Federal Reserve Vice-Chair is the
former head of the Bank of Israel, Stanley Fischer.
That being the same bank which laundered billions
for Bernie Madoff which the U.S. never regained,
rather than taking the money back, the U.S. government
saw fit to charge the U.S. taxpayer for making restitution
payments to Madoff victims. Yay !
 Quoting: RDprofessor


It's funny how the kings of the Fed are always Jews.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2014 09:15 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Because it is a private institution. They are not giving away their money, they give away yours and charge you for it!
 Quoting: KipKat


They give away your money, charge you for it and demand you PAY THEM BACK WITH INTEREST.

How can you pay someone back that didnt have it to give away in the first place?

You dont need to repay what someone never had of their own to begin with.

The fed has no purpose but to feed itself by taking from you the same dollar several times over.
Fees to create at 3%
Interest at variable rates, compounded.
Demands for payback of a principle they never had.

Its like borrowing gold from someone that has none to begin with but having to pay them in gold.

Its a scam of intentional indebtedness, servitude, imprisonment and extermination.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2014 09:19 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Is the Federal Reserve "good for Israel"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22323415


Why, Yes ! The Federal Reserve Vice-Chair is the
former head of the Bank of Israel, Stanley Fischer.
That being the same bank which laundered billions
for Bernie Madoff which the U.S. never regained,
rather than taking the money back, the U.S. government
saw fit to charge the U.S. taxpayer for making restitution
payments to Madoff victims. Yay !
 Quoting: RDprofessor


It's funny how the kings of the Fed are always Jews.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22323415


If theyre chosen to be owners of everything, then they need a way to create a fictional reason why what you earned is not yours.


"You didnt build that" is what their current spokespuppet likes to say.

The only reason to demand a running accounting of everything you have is so they know what you have BECAUSE ITS THEIRS ALREADY.
You normal people only count what you think is your property.
SO DO THEY.
Nikola Tesla

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02/11/2014 09:49 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Discuss??



Discuss this.



homlsdpt
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


The Fed create bought that with money that it created out of thin air. Other than expenses used to make the transaction they should retire it for the good of mankind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 798561


Banksters have no interest in "the good of mankind".
"One person with courage is a majority." - Thomas Jefferson

"You’ve heard that we are what we eat. But we also are what we think".

“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."
-William F. Buckley Jr.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2014 09:54 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
I haven't yet seen any report as to the renewal of its charter. Weren't its first hundred years up in December, 2013?

Great question, O/P!
burnit
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2014 10:26 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
1. The Federal Reserve supposedly derives its powers
at the express pleasure of the U.S. Congress.
2. The Federal Reserve Chair is appointed by the
U.S. President.
3. The Federal Reserve digitally creates real dollars
and uses them without Congressional oversight.
4. The Federal Reserve is currently carrying 4 Trillion
in U.S. debt.
5. Everyone on TV wants to know how the Fed will unwind
this balance sheet, by selling the debt to the markets,
or by holding the debt to maturity.
6. The U.S. taxpayer is paying interest on money created
at zero cost with full benefit of interest paid to the
consortium of banks headed by the Federal Reserve.
7. The Federal Reserve can never really take a loss, because
it always has a zero cost basis.
8. If the Federal Reserve serves American interests, why
don't they talk about canceling the debt off the U.S.
deficit by retiring the debt securities they hold ?

discuss.
 Quoting: RDprofessor


Well, put simply it would obliterate the value of the dollar and collapse the global economy. The Fed is the backstop (with limits) to central banks worldwide, and to 'erase' those holdings would immediately torpedo both the Fed's credibility and the perceived value of the currency. Somebody has to pay.

By the way, most of your points are inaccurate, OP. Point #2 The Fed chair is not appointed, they are nominated, #3 Treasury only spends what Congress approves, #4 Not all U.S. debt...European debt as well, #6 The Treasury pays interest to the Fed for purchases, and the Fed then returns that money to the Treasury per agreement, #7 True to a point, but as the Fed's balance sheet expands, it's credibility becomes stretched, thus jeopardizing faith in the dollar as the reserve currency. #8 See above.

Still, at least you are thinking 'out of the box'. We're going to need more of that in the months and years to come.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2014 10:28 AM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Because it is a private institution. They are not giving away their money, they give away yours and charge you for it!
 Quoting: KipKat


They give away your money, charge you for it and demand you PAY THEM BACK WITH INTEREST.

How can you pay someone back that didnt have it to give away in the first place?

You dont need to repay what someone never had of their own to begin with.

The fed has no purpose but to feed itself by taking from you the same dollar several times over.
Fees to create at 3%
Interest at variable rates, compounded.
Demands for payback of a principle they never had.

Its like borrowing gold from someone that has none to begin with but having to pay them in gold.

Its a scam of intentional indebtedness, servitude, imprisonment and extermination.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49937461


False. The interest is paid back to Treasury in total.
RDprofessor  (OP)

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02/11/2014 07:49 PM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
1. The Federal Reserve supposedly derives its powers
at the express pleasure of the U.S. Congress.
2. The Federal Reserve Chair is appointed by the
U.S. President.
3. The Federal Reserve digitally creates real dollars
and uses them without Congressional oversight.
4. The Federal Reserve is currently carrying 4 Trillion
in U.S. debt.
5. Everyone on TV wants to know how the Fed will unwind
this balance sheet, by selling the debt to the markets,
or by holding the debt to maturity.
6. The U.S. taxpayer is paying interest on money created
at zero cost with full benefit of interest paid to the
consortium of banks headed by the Federal Reserve.
7. The Federal Reserve can never really take a loss, because
it always has a zero cost basis.
8. If the Federal Reserve serves American interests, why
don't they talk about canceling the debt off the U.S.
deficit by retiring the debt securities they hold ?

discuss.
 Quoting: RDprofessor


Well, put simply it would obliterate the value of the dollar and collapse the global economy. The Fed is the backstop (with limits) to central banks worldwide, and to 'erase' those holdings would immediately torpedo both the Fed's credibility and the perceived value of the currency. Somebody has to pay.

By the way, most of your points are inaccurate, OP. Point #2 The Fed chair is not appointed, they are nominated, #3 Treasury only spends what Congress approves, #4 Not all U.S. debt...European debt as well, #6 The Treasury pays interest to the Fed for purchases, and the Fed then returns that money to the Treasury per agreement, #7 True to a point, but as the Fed's balance sheet expands, it's credibility becomes stretched, thus jeopardizing faith in the dollar as the reserve currency. #8 See above.

Still, at least you are thinking 'out of the box'. We're going to need more of that in the months and years to come.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1347486


welll just hold on there a minute. Granted I was in a hurry when I posted this so I didn't have time to accurately represent all I know. I was too worried about how Janet Queen Bee Yellen would impact my stock account this morning.
Ok so let's talk about some of what you said.

First, I had thought of what the impact would be, but you must realize that the US already IS a "banana republic" and the value of the dollar, or US debt securities has nothing to do with sound money principles, the same can be said about many other countries' debts to bankers. The truth in my opinion is that the Fed COULD retire the debt, and there would be a positive effect, not a negative effect. I don't think China or Great Britain would complain. Debtholders of all classes certainly would not complain because this act would actually make the US more solvent which would make
their bonds rise in value. Moreover, the status of the Fed dollar is controlled via economic, political and military
force when required, we all know that.
On to Point 2.. I said apoointed not nominated only to infer that it is extremely rare that a President's choice for
Fed Chair would not be accepted by Congress. The fact is that the PRESIDENT has the POWER to choose someone that would be open to change IF the President wanted that change to occur, such as if I were President and kept nominating
Ron Pauls or Rick Santellis over and over again there is nothing the Congress could do about it, eventually they would remit.
On to point 3.. you're totally off the mark with this one. I said nothing at all about the Treasury. The Treasury is to the Fed what the Mint is to the Fed, a puppet to take commands. The Fed has increased the money supply by many trillions without any Congressional request or Treasury request at all. Zero. The Fed can do this, and has. Are you old enough to remember when Greenspan printed hundreds of billions to "protect" the country right before Y2K ? The media talked about how nobody was prepared for what could happen to the computers when that morning the 1999 date became 2000. Hundreds of billions of dollars were printed.
That was nothing compared to how many trillions the Fed has given banks at the zero-percent window and the Fed "discount" window and the QE's and Operation Twists, and God-knows-what-else because the Fed can create money without even telling Congress or the President anything at all about it. They can fund BLACK PROJECTS secretly without any Congressional knowledge whatsoever !
Point 4.. the Fed is carrying over 4 Trillion that we know of of US debt and US toxic mortgage paper and really nobody knows how big it is or will get. Today Queen Janet said this program can be accelerated anytime they perceive a weakening of the economy.
Point 5.. I guess you thought I was ok on that one
Point 6.. that is true and I thank you for reminding me of this, however don't think they are angels just because they return the interest portion.. they are the ones who created these trillions by their independent un-audited mandate.. and every time they do it, there is an unseen inflation tax on all who own Fed notes aka dollars because they are worth less and the government becomes overstrained with debt - the Fed should cancel the debt and decrease the debt. Returning the interest paid is b.s. because that same money finds its way back to the member banks and they know they will make interest on it sooner or later anyway !
Point 7.. the Fed has no credibility. They only have power.
there is a difference. Credibility doesn't matter anymore.
Power does still matter.
Point 8..tell the bondholders and treasury note holders who were paid by the Fed that their money received in payment has no value. They are satisfied. It doesn't matter to them if the Fed cancels their portion of the debt. Believe me if this keeps going, there could come a day when this is the only option remaining. I believe it should happen now.
Those who have the other trillions in debt would see their
bonds rise in value as the overall debt burden is lessened.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2014 11:33 PM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Good stuff. And, truth is I was a little edgy when I wrote that response, but you made some good points.

However, my issue with your debt-retirement idea boils down to this: Those mbs are still packaged together in the market (derivatives), and should the Fed 'clear the books', the derivatives would not settle in an orderly way, and the whole thing comes down.

And, with regard to the Fed functioning idependently, I agree there is more than meets the eye. But, the Fed works hand-in-hand with the Treasury, and the last thing the Fed wants is to be dissolved (those Fed banks would disintegrate if they had to realize those liabilities). It is (notwithstanding conspiracy) in their best interests for the economy to succeed.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2014 11:47 PM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
I just read a really good book called "When Everything Changed" by Edward M. Wolfe.

Descrbes how aliens come here and point out all this stupid shit we do.
The writer has real insight.
Good read.
I'm not him.



[link to www.amazon.com]
RDprofessor  (OP)

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02/12/2014 12:16 PM
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Re: Why won't the Fed just cancel/retire it's $ 4+ Trillion in U.S. Debt securities ???
Good stuff. And, truth is I was a little edgy when I wrote that response, but you made some good points.

However, my issue with your debt-retirement idea boils down to this: Those mbs are still packaged together in the market (derivatives), and should the Fed 'clear the books', the derivatives would not settle in an orderly way, and the whole thing comes down.

And, with regard to the Fed functioning idependently, I agree there is more than meets the eye. But, the Fed works hand-in-hand with the Treasury, and the last thing the Fed wants is to be dissolved (those Fed banks would disintegrate if they had to realize those liabilities). It is (notwithstanding conspiracy) in their best interests for the economy to succeed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1347486


I only meant to discuss canceling the debt bonds,
not the mb's. We do not know how many of the mb's
are worthless and will always be worthless, but it's
likely to be a very high percentage of those since
the program began in 2008-2009.
It benefits the home-owning public for them to hold the mb's, but to cancel the Treasury debt.
Think about how laughably pathetic it is that the Fed
is creating notes (dollars) out of thin air to purchase
US debt. That situation has existed for years now and
is no better perceptively than them canceling the notes
employed, which would not only lower the overall US debt
but also take that money out of eventual circulation.
Because the Fed has a policy target of increasing inflation
by at least 2%/ann. (food/energy excluded) they won't retire
the debt because they need that money to seep into circulation.
I am very suspiscious of their motives. I do not believe it
is at all necessary for their operations that the economy
succeed. The definitions they employ to gauge "success" are
skewed to favor the banks and not the public at large.

Last Edited by RDprofessor on 02/12/2014 12:17 PM





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