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"Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"

 
Veranidae
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03/14/2014 12:08 PM
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"Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
[link to bostonherald.com]

For starters, this sounds mysteriously familiar, as though it was stolen from the script of a Blue Bloods episode (if I'm not mistaken).

" 'At the end of the day, when a gun is used in a crime in Boston, we will do everything possible to find out how the gun ended up in the shooter’s hands,' Daniel Kumor, special agent in charge of Boston’s ATF division, told about 20 pastors at the 12th Baptist Church in Roxbury."

"Religious leaders in Roxbury, Dorchester, Mattapan and the South End said they will roll out programs to help curb shootings, the Rev. Jeffrey Brown said. They’ll help families who have experienced trauma and visit homes of at-risk youths so their parents recognize the warning signs of troubled behavior, Brown added."

"Boston police also reported 107 guns have been seized so far this year. Last year a total 667 guns were taken off the streets, police said."

"some illegal guns in Massachusetts are coming from nearby in Maine and New Hampshire, or southern states such as Georgia, Virginia or Florida. Many of the guns are making their way to the Bay State through drug trafficking"

What kind of substantive terms are "some," and "many?" After all, they were forthcoming with their sum-total statistics.

Define "taken off the streets."

Of these sum-total statistics, where are the breakdowns?
How many were voluntarily turned in? After all, this is MA we're talking about. How many have these clergy members guilted their members into handing in? How many were functional?
How many were seized from criminals.
Moreover, how many were seized from innocents for bureaucratic BS like "failing to register?"

And then there's the matter of the ATF's botched "Fast & Furious" program. How many of these are weapons recovered from that priceless operation, in an effort to continue keeping it below the radar?

And finally, there's the matter of drug trafficking. Perhaps if the administration would support its legal obligation and responsibility to policing the border and punishing illegal aliens, they might in turn be doing a bit more to curb illegal firearms as well.

Finally, what happened to the all-to-sensitive matter of separating church from state? After all, our government otherwise is content to turn a blind eye to the marginalization, persecution, and slaughter of Christians regularly. Apparently, the church is integral (when necessary).
Ya'ala
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03/14/2014 12:15 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Because churches and religious organizations are classified by the IRS as charitable organizations 501(c)(3) they are under the governments thumb.
Veranidae  (OP)

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03/14/2014 12:31 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Since I live in NH, I'll venture a guess that we were fingered purely for political purposes while not so much for statistical purposes. Any of the weapons that originated in NH were probably stolen by the filth passing back and forth from MA. NH has some of the lowest gun crime in the entire nation while among one of the most well-armed populations. It INFURIATES the libs in MA.
ITZCOMING
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03/14/2014 12:40 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Because churches and religious organizations are classified by the IRS as charitable organizations 501(c)(3) they are under the governments thumb.
 Quoting: Ya'ala 18776091


YOU GOT IT.

When more Christian persecution comes, most 501(c)3 pastors will fold like cheap lawnchairs.

Wanna hear some good preaching from a non gov owned pastor? This guy is really good. He isn't afraid to say anything, since the gov does not own his church!

[link to jeraldfinney.wordpress.com]
Veranidae  (OP)

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03/14/2014 12:41 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
"Religious leaders in Roxbury, Dorchester, Mattapan and the South End said they will roll out programs to help curb shootings"

What, because violence lacking a firearm is somehow less significant than violence that includes a firearm? I'm rather sure the Lord doesn't discriminate when it comes to violence period. I'm also rather sure that He would be displeased with such deceitful motives as are those of the ATF and this administration in co-opting the church as a means to a different end.
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 03:17 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
You know, I never see guns on the street. But if I do I will most certainly stop and pick them up, because it's my religious duty.
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 03:21 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
AAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a Lutheran Pastor on my 3 gun shooting team!!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 03:24 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Nail on the head about the 501.c3

Stay far away from any church that has a 501.c3

Mixing of church and state only leads to oppression and death.

The hundreds of millions who were tortured and killed by the roman catholic church from 538 ad until Napolean arrested the pope and abolished the papacy in 1798 testify as much.



Wait? But Rome is still a church/state power!

Correct. In 1929 Mussolini and Cardinal Gaspari signed the Lateran treaty.

Over night the roman catholic churches wound was healed and she became a church state power again.

Stay far far away from any 501c3 government church. They WILL join with rome. (they already teach most of her doctrine anyway)
Anonymous Coward
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Oman
03/14/2014 03:36 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
This is an important thread.
Nine's

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03/14/2014 03:37 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
501c 3 churches have sold out. It was lose the money or become a product of state and .gov. They chose the money.


A couple quotes from one article.

"This is a time of unprecedented evil on this planet. Many Americans are looking for refuge and direction with regard to dealing with these unprecedented times of tyranny. Historically, Americans look to their church for salvation and direction. However, most of today’s churches have been taken over from within by the very evil we fear. Many of your religious leaders have become the newest version of Benedict Arnold with regard to their faith. In short, most 501-C-3 churches do NOT represent God."

"FEMA and DHS directors have told the pastors that attend NOVAD meetings, that it is their duty to help implement FEMA and Homeland Security directives in anticipation of any eventualities of calamity and disaster. Pastors have further been instructed to preach Romans 13 to their followers which is designed to fool Christians into supporting Obama and it is based upon the philosophy that obedience to government, even a corrupt government, is tantamount to obedience to God."
[link to www.fourwinds10.net]

Even worse, most members don't know that someone in the church "has" to attend their meetings and be follow the information supplied to them. I wonder if their pastors, elders, or whoever is appointed to this duty, share the information with members, or they're kept in the dark?
M*walk
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03/14/2014 03:40 PM

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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
I say we jail every one of these anti-American goobermint bastards!!
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 03:43 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Because churches and religious organizations are classified by the IRS as charitable organizations 501(c)(3) they are under the governments thumb.
 Quoting: Ya'ala 18776091


Try convincing a Jehovah's Witness of that. They would never believe you.
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 03:48 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Because churches and religious organizations are classified by the IRS as charitable organizations 501(c)(3) they are under the governments thumb.
 Quoting: Ya'ala 18776091


YOU GOT IT.

When more Christian persecution comes, most 501(c)3 pastors will fold like cheap lawnchairs.

Wanna hear some good preaching from a non gov owned pastor? This guy is really good. He isn't afraid to say anything, since the gov does not own his church!

[link to jeraldfinney.wordpress.com]
 Quoting: ITZCOMING 12781064


Rome(The beast) is gathering her children(the false prophet) 501.c3 protestant churches to her.

"We are galloping toward a one-world melding of religions, and the ramifications are staggering. Pope Francis has now sent a video message to Word of Faith father Kenneth Copeland, urging a reconciliation between Catholics and Charismatics (protestants)."

[link to standupforthetruth.com]

The World council of churches general secretary, who represents a fellowship of 345 member churches in more than 110 countries, expressed these views on 7 March during his visit to Rome hosted by the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity of the Roman Catholic Church.

[link to www.oikoumene.org]


It is happening.
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 03:52 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Because churches and religious organizations are classified by the IRS as charitable organizations 501(c)(3) they are under the governments thumb.
 Quoting: Ya'ala 18776091


.
... sad but true ...
.
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 03:55 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Because churches and religious organizations are classified by the IRS as charitable organizations 501(c)(3) they are under the governments thumb.
 Quoting: Ya'ala 18776091


YOU GOT IT.

When more Christian persecution comes, most 501(c)3 pastors will fold like cheap lawnchairs.

Wanna hear some good preaching from a non gov owned pastor? This guy is really good. He isn't afraid to say anything, since the gov does not own his church!

[link to jeraldfinney.wordpress.com]
 Quoting: ITZCOMING 12781064


Yeah and after the lawn chairs are all used up they will get blown away as the wind would carry them in a storms tempest.


catfilenails
BattlesightZero

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03/14/2014 04:01 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Since I live in NH, I'll venture a guess that we were fingered purely for political purposes while not so much for statistical purposes. Any of the weapons that originated in NH were probably stolen by the filth passing back and forth from MA. NH has some of the lowest gun crime in the entire nation while among one of the most well-armed populations. It INFURIATES the libs in MA.
 Quoting: Veranidae


^^^^ THIS ^^^^^
BattlesightZero

YOU, and only YOU are responsible for maintaining the balance of power between you and the rest of the semi-sentient beings in this world. You cannot disclaim or delegate that responsibility; it is a function of being a living, breathing "adult" in this world. If you can't manage yourself on those terms, someone else *will* manage you on their terms. Your terms are irrelevant. Buy a rifle; prepare to defend yourself. If you don't, what happens is *your* fault. Period.
Nine's

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03/14/2014 04:02 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Because churches and religious organizations are classified by the IRS as charitable organizations 501(c)(3) they are under the governments thumb.
 Quoting: Ya'ala 18776091


Try convincing a Jehovah's Witness of that. They would never believe you.
 Quoting: Sunset Voulebard


The ones at the top know that they are a religious corporation that belongs to and is ruled by the State. They have lawyers. They know what they agreed to, and signed. Anyone can find the information if they really care.

“A corporation is a creature of the state… Its rights to act as a corporation are only preserved to it so long as it obeys the laws of its creation…” (Hale v. Henkel, 201 U.S. 43)
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 04:14 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Because churches and religious organizations are classified by the IRS as charitable organizations 501(c)(3) they are under the governments thumb.
 Quoting: Ya'ala 18776091


bsflag I call BS because it would violate the separation of church and state.

Feds need to do their own dirty work and leave the clergy or religion out.

I'd never thought I'd advocate an athiest group's position on something like this.
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 04:17 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
whatever happened to separation of church and state?
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 04:19 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Lets clarify:

'guns off the streets'

are these guns in the hands of the criminals or guns in the hands of the

law abiding citizens?
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 04:23 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
whatever happened to separation of church and state?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28681231


March 7th 2006 Happened.

The Bush administration put into law a brand new executive order # 13397 that REMOVES the separation of church and state and forces all churches (with 501C3 status) to become government agencies

[link to georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov]
Ya'ala

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03/14/2014 04:27 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Because churches and religious organizations are classified by the IRS as charitable organizations 501(c)(3) they are under the governments thumb.
 Quoting: Ya'ala 18776091


bsflag I call BS because it would violate the separation of church and state.

Feds need to do their own dirty work and leave the clergy or religion out.

I'd never thought I'd advocate an athiest group's position on something like this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41181573


Thats cool, you're entitled to your opinion even if it is a little naive.
Bambi2U

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03/14/2014 04:34 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Next they will be knocking on our doors

MOLAN LABE

Last Edited by HeartsInHeaven on 03/14/2014 04:35 PM
"We are locked in a battle. This is not a friendly, gentleman's discussion. It is a life and death conflict between the spiritual hosts of wickedness and those who claim the name of Jesus Christ."

"The Saints are Sinners that keep on trying"
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 04:42 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Since I live in NH, I'll venture a guess that we were fingered purely for political purposes while not so much for statistical purposes. Any of the weapons that originated in NH were probably stolen by the filth passing back and forth from MA. NH has some of the lowest gun crime in the entire nation while among one of the most well-armed populations. It INFURIATES the libs in MA.
 Quoting: Veranidae


NH reporting in.

The average MA sheeple would shit BRICKS to see what I've got lying around my apt... No crime around here.
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 04:43 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
[link to bostonherald.com]


Finally, what happened to the all-to-sensitive matter of separating church from state? After all, our government otherwise is content to turn a blind eye to the marginalization, persecution, and slaughter of Christians regularly. Apparently, the church is integral (when necessary).
 Quoting: Veranidae


ALERT: Revolutionary War was led by the Church...



[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 04:49 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Nail on the head about the 501.c3

Stay far away from any church that has a 501.c3

Mixing of church and state only leads to oppression and death.

The hundreds of millions who were tortured and killed by the roman catholic church from 538 ad until Napolean arrested the pope and abolished the papacy in 1798 testify as much.



Wait? But Rome is still a church/state power!

Correct. In 1929 Mussolini and Cardinal Gaspari signed the Lateran treaty.

Over night the roman catholic churches wound was healed and she became a church state power again.

Stay far far away from any 501c3 government church. They WILL join with rome. (they already teach most of her doctrine anyway)
 Quoting: sundayisNOTthesabbath


yoda
Knower
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03/14/2014 05:04 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
This is exactly how they were able to take over so many countries during WWII....

get the Clergy to help control/subdue the masses...put down the weapons and surrender to the takeover...



.
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 06:01 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
These are the times that will try men's souls.
Kirk

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03/14/2014 06:08 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Because churches and religious organizations are classified by the IRS as charitable organizations 501(c)(3) they are under the governments thumb.
 Quoting: Ya'ala 18776091


They signed a deal. I wont mess with your gig if you don't mess with my gig. They entered a contract. Then they keep passing the hat until the rev gets his minimum and he gives a motivational speech ala Tony Robbins.

They tell you the gifts of the spirit are in the old days, not now. Nothing to do with time, has to do with a spirit filled congregation. Gifts are in the presence of the Spirit.

Firstmost fruit of the Spirit is love. Love and scripture on the pulpit or psychology? False teachers, ravenous wolves in sheeps clothing. deceivers. It's in the book.
Government is a body largely ungoverned.
Anonymous Coward
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03/14/2014 06:57 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
Since I live in NH, I'll venture a guess that we were fingered purely for political purposes while not so much for statistical purposes. Any of the weapons that originated in NH were probably stolen by the filth passing back and forth from MA. NH has some of the lowest gun crime in the entire nation while among one of the most well-armed populations. It INFURIATES the libs in MA.
 Quoting: Veranidae


An honest government has nothing to fear from gun owners...
davvi

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03/14/2014 07:18 PM
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Re: "Feds urge clergy to help get guns off streets"
[link to bostonherald.com]

For starters, this sounds mysteriously familiar, as though it was stolen from the script of a Blue Bloods episode (if I'm not mistaken).

" 'At the end of the day, when a gun is used in a crime in Boston, we will do everything possible to find out how the gun ended up in the shooter’s hands,' Daniel Kumor, special agent in charge of Boston’s ATF division, told about 20 pastors at the 12th Baptist Church in Roxbury."

"Religious leaders in Roxbury, Dorchester, Mattapan and the South End said they will roll out programs to help curb shootings, the Rev. Jeffrey Brown said. They’ll help families who have experienced trauma and visit homes of at-risk youths so their parents recognize the warning signs of troubled behavior, Brown added."

"Boston police also reported 107 guns have been seized so far this year. Last year a total 667 guns were taken off the streets, police said."

"some illegal guns in Massachusetts are coming from nearby in Maine and New Hampshire, or southern states such as Georgia, Virginia or Florida. Many of the guns are making their way to the Bay State through drug trafficking"

What kind of substantive terms are "some," and "many?" After all, they were forthcoming with their sum-total statistics.

Define "taken off the streets."

Of these sum-total statistics, where are the breakdowns?
How many were voluntarily turned in? After all, this is MA we're talking about. How many have these clergy members guilted their members into handing in? How many were functional?
How many were seized from criminals.
Moreover, how many were seized from innocents for bureaucratic BS like "failing to register?"

And then there's the matter of the ATF's botched "Fast & Furious" program. How many of these are weapons recovered from that priceless operation, in an effort to continue keeping it below the radar?

And finally, there's the matter of drug trafficking. Perhaps if the administration would support its legal obligation and responsibility to policing the border and punishing illegal aliens, they might in turn be doing a bit more to curb illegal firearms as well.

Finally, what happened to the all-to-sensitive matter of separating church from state? After all, our government otherwise is content to turn a blind eye to the marginalization, persecution, and slaughter of Christians regularly. Apparently, the church is integral (when necessary).
 Quoting: Veranidae


Corrupt, fascist governments always use religious organizations and theclergy to impose their will on people. It is one of the reasons that we have the welfare state. Government sold welfare as "being your brother's keeper" and most religions push charities as part of one's obligation to humanity...





GLP