| Users Online Now: 2,178 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 1,142,040 | |
| Pageviews Today: 1,593,923 | Threads Today: 436 | Posts Today: 7,868 |
| 01:03 PM | ||
| Users Online Now: 2,178 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 1,142,040 | |
| Pageviews Today: 1,593,923 | Threads Today: 436 | Posts Today: 7,868 |
| 01:03 PM | ||
Paul discussion: Will you forfeit your spot in heaven for calling Paul an apostle? | |
| LostReality33 Offer Upgrade  User ID: 52884865  United States03/31/2014 03:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| JDaugherty User ID: 59634759 United States06/27/2014 04:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49393232 United States06/27/2014 07:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office." - Romans 11:13 This next verse is after the Rich Man - Camel going Through a Needle paradox Matthew 19 "27Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 27Then Peter responded to Him, "Look, we have left everything and followed You. So what will there be for us?" 28Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." I would make the claim the 12 Apostles were seperate from the Apostle to the Gentiles. I would say the reference in Revelation was a judgement reference,and to my knowledge because there is no reference to the Apostle to the Gentiles judging, so Paul wouldbe absent, totaling 12. I have resd his epistles and his tone changes. At time he is stern to rebuke those erring, but out of love for the growing church to be holy. He is humble, noting in 1 Timothy 1:15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." Paul had standing, and cast it aside to aid thise he was persecuting. He lived his life in prison when he could have rejected Christ and remained a "Pharisee of Pharisees". Paul glorifies Christ as creator and part of the Godhead, as does John in his letters. Paul's friend Luke, and his friend Mark, wrote two of the Gospels. They have are just as good as Matthew, which was written by an apostle, and John, which was written after the other 3 by another apostle. |
| vedklyvare User ID: 59705953  Sweden06/27/2014 07:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office." - Romans 11:13 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49393232 This next verse is after the Rich Man - Camel going Through a Needle paradox Matthew 19 "27Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 27Then Peter responded to Him, "Look, we have left everything and followed You. So what will there be for us?" 28Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." I would make the claim the 12 Apostles were seperate from the Apostle to the Gentiles. I would say the reference in Revelation was a judgement reference,and to my knowledge because there is no reference to the Apostle to the Gentiles judging, so Paul wouldbe absent, totaling 12. I have resd his epistles and his tone changes. At time he is stern to rebuke those erring, but out of love for the growing church to be holy. He is humble, noting in 1 Timothy 1:15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." Paul had standing, and cast it aside to aid thise he was persecuting. He lived his life in prison when he could have rejected Christ and remained a "Pharisee of Pharisees". Paul glorifies Christ as creator and part of the Godhead, as does John in his letters. Paul's friend Luke, and his friend Mark, wrote two of the Gospels. They have are just as good as Matthew, which was written by an apostle, and John, which was written after the other 3 by another apostle. Really? In Acts 15:7, at the Council at Jerusalem we learn that is was indeed Peter that was the chosen apostle to the gentiles. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. (And John doesn't glorify Jesus as the creator. God is the creator.) Last Edited by vedklyvare on 06/27/2014 08:01 PM vedklyvare |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 49393232 United States06/28/2014 01:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | John glorifies him in the Gospel of John. Funny his you reject Paul but accept the Book of Acts, written by those in his company. Paul wrote most of the books of the Nt and nothing within his epistles or the gospel and history if the church attributed to Luke contradicts the rest of the Bible or the OT. |
| vedklyvare User ID: 59725997 Sweden06/28/2014 01:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | John glorifies him in the Gospel of John. Funny his you reject Paul but accept the Book of Acts, written by those in his company. Paul wrote most of the books of the Nt and nothing within his epistles or the gospel and history if the church attributed to Luke contradicts the rest of the Bible or the OT. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49393232 Any specific verses you're thinking of? Last Edited by vedklyvare on 06/28/2014 01:58 PM vedklyvare |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 59731190 United States06/28/2014 03:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 48499249  United Kingdom06/28/2014 04:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You are barely scratching the surface on this topic, all you have done is compare some revelation verses to quotes of Paul's letters, it goes way deeper my friend, Paul witnessed The Christ remember, he was guided in what he had to record in his own works, he always glorified The Lord in his writings |
| vedklyvare User ID: 59725997 Sweden06/28/2014 04:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You are barely scratching the surface on this topic, all you have done is compare some revelation verses to quotes of Paul's letters, it goes way deeper my friend, Paul witnessed The Christ remember, he was guided in what he had to record in his own works, he always glorified The Lord in his writings Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48499249 He didn't witness him when he was alive. Good thing Jesus came back to guide Paul in very important doctrinal issues. To bad just Jesus was so forgetful that he forgot to teach the original apostles all he taught Paul. vedklyvare |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 22177258 Sweden06/28/2014 05:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Wayfaring Stranger User ID: 55034495  Canada06/28/2014 05:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And now the main focus, which is Paul. Well, we know that there are 12 Apostles of the Lamb, namely, 1.Simon/Peter, 2.Andrew, 3.James of Zebedee, 4.John, 5.Philip, 6.Bartholomew, 7.Thomas, 8.Matthew, 9.James of Alpheus, 10.Lebbeus/Thaddeus, 11.Simon, and 12.Judas Iscariot, who was replaced with Matthias. Check Matthew 10:2-4. Quoting: LostReality33 1 Corinthians 9:1, "Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?" If one was to count Paul as an apostle of the Lamb, would that then imply that Revelation 21:14 is wrong? It would mean there has to be thirteen foundations, for the thirteen apostles of the Lamb, when clearly that's not the case. 12 Apostles would list Judas as one of the 12. The kiss was destiny in motion so Judas will not lose his part. Saul was gathered by the same Spirit that the Apostles received and that would include the gift of languages as described in Act:2. If that now makes 14 Apostles hang on because there is more. The Scribe of the Gospel of John and the Book of Revelation was a Disciple of John the Baptist that traveled around with Jesus and the 12 Apostles and the Gospel is her account of the 3 1/2 years from when John the Baptist was called to serve and when the cross took place. Once Judas and Mary of Bethany are covered in detail accepting Paul will be a small step. Based in the 3 accounts you have Saul's version, his friends version and the POV if you were the Spirit involved. Because of who Saul was you can even determine why he was 'chosen' and it was more fluke than intentional design. The 4 Gospels first appeared in flawless Greek and written by 4 Jews who have never left Judea or had any contact with Gentiles. Saul had a copy that had the Lord's Prayer in it and when he was riding along whispering out the words he said the 'Amen' aloud and that is when the light event took place. In the days of blindness God gave him a perfect copy of the 4 Gospels as well as full knowledge of what those private moments added so that when they cured his blindness they saw him to be just as knowledgeable as Peter was. What Paul wrote down is what Peter would would have taught in Acts:10 so the variance in teaching is because the event is different and the people involved is different. The bruise to the head involves Gentiles and fallen angels so the rules are different that the 12 Tribes and the bruise to the heel part of that prophecy. |
| vedklyvare User ID: 59725997 Sweden06/28/2014 05:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Dead Man User ID: 59617254 United States06/28/2014 05:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It is not my intention to upset anyone, but to rather bring forth some information easily overlooked, straight from the Bible (KJV). Quoting: LostReality33 A lot of people will argue over Paul and the things he said, saying he advocated breaking away from the Law, that he taught his own gospel, and other more extreme views that he was the first person who was anti Christ. Simply by typing "Paul" or "apostle" or other such combination into our handy dandy GLP search bar will bring these topics up. In this thread, I'd like to bring up something so simple, so overlooked, and I genuinely ask, what are the implications of this? In Revelation 21, John is shown "that great city, the holy Jerusalem," by "one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues." In Revelation 21:12, it is written, "And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel." In Revelation 21:14, it is written, "And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Well, in Revelation 22:19 it is written, "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." This thread is mainly about Paul, but this implies that there are only 12 tribes of Israel, yet we know there are others who say there are 13, even 14 tribes. Can anyone please elaborate more on that? And now the main focus, which is Paul. Well, we know that there are 12 Apostles of the Lamb, namely, 1.Simon/Peter, 2.Andrew, 3.James of Zebedee, 4.John, 5.Philip, 6.Bartholomew, 7.Thomas, 8.Matthew, 9.James of Alpheus, 10.Lebbeus/Thaddeus, 11.Simon, and 12.Judas Iscariot, who was replaced with Matthias. Check Matthew 10:2-4. 1 Corinthians 9:1, "Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?" If one was to count Paul as an apostle of the Lamb, would that then imply that Revelation 21:14 is wrong? It would mean there has to be thirteen foundations, for the thirteen apostles of the Lamb, when clearly that's not the case. According to Revelation 22:19, simply by entertaining the idea that there is just one more apostle, adding 1 to 12, making 13, implying there has to be 13 foundations for 13 apostles of the Lamb, is adding to the words of Revelation! And what does that guarantee? Yet, it doesn't end there...what other implications does this have? So Paul is found a liar; are we to continue reading his epistles? I've read before here on GLP and elsewhere that many who base their belief in any type rapture do so from Paul, that Paul is the foundation/reason for this rapture nonsense. It's clear that 144,000 are taken, but not some big-number million rapture. Is it wrong to say that you'd forfeit heaven by calling Paul an apostle? He obviously can't be, yet says he is. And if you say he is, you're implying there's 13 gates for this 13th apostle of the Lamb, right? Hi There |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 22177258 Sweden06/28/2014 05:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Wayfaring Stranger User ID: 55034495 Canada06/28/2014 05:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I feel ashamed. I thought that I am a Christian and didn't even know that Paul was not one of the 12 apostles. Quoting: Shhh... Having the title below probably made Paul forget all about not being an Apostle. He certainly knew as much as an Apostle. Rome is the 'it' in the verse below. Da:8:10: And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 7629176 United States06/28/2014 05:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I feel ashamed. I thought that I am a Christian and didn't even know that Paul was not one of the 12 apostles. Quoting: Shhh... Don't feel ashamed, I have met Baptists who thought they were started by St. John the Baptist, take everything in with humility. The important thing right now is to pray,pray,pray. |
| Wayfaring Stranger User ID: 55034495 Canada06/28/2014 05:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It will probably come as news that the Beloved Disciple was the Scribe in prison on Patmos when she wrote Revelation. She wasn't a rebel against Rome, she was Jewish so she was automatically picked up when Jews in Jerusalem entered the 'open revolt' stage and the magnitude of that event was the reason she was in the open-air prison. Is the wall now at 15 colors? Ever wonder what being in the fiery lake will do to a person. Could they be the material the wall are made of. What can't be purified will be glassified (cannot sin). The material would have meaning to God and the Holy Spirit rather than it being anybody created in this heaven and earth. Last Edited by Wayfaring Stranger on 06/28/2014 05:44 PM |
