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Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.

 
Sol Neman
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05/03/2014 12:46 PM
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Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
This situation may get much larger...it already has international attention due to the teenager being a German foreign exchange student. Castle Doctrine (Stand Your Ground) is being claimed as defense but it has been alleged the homeowners "baited" the teenager and left their garage door open. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

Missoula man charged with homicide in shooting death of foreign-exchange student

'MISSOULA -- Missoula school officials have identified the 17-year old who was shot and killed during an apparent break-in on Sunday morning was Diren Dede, a foreign exchange student from Hamburg, Germany.

He'd been attending classes as a junior at Big Sky High School.

Police are still investigating the shooting, but have said the teen was shot in the head after a 29-year old man caught him inside his garage in the 2600 block of Deer Canyon Court....'


[link to www.krtv.com]

Teen shot and killed in Missoula garage
[link to www.krtv.com]

Last Edited by Sol Neman on 05/03/2014 01:50 PM
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Sol Neman  (OP)

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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
Prosecutors say Missoula homeowners "baited" burglar before fatal gunfire

'MISSOULA -- Charging documents filed Monday allege that Markus Hendrik Kaarma and his common-law wife Janelle Pflager of Missoula "baited" 17-year-old foreign exchange student Diren Dede with a purse before shooting him in the head with a shotgun.

Kaarma, 29, made his initial appearance in Missoula County Justice Court on Monday, charged with deliberate homicide.

According to the charging affidavit, Kaarma's home on Deer Canyon Court had recently been broken into twice, so he had security equipment installed....'


[link to www.krtv.com]


Charging documents: [link to www.krtv.com]

Last Edited by Sol Neman on 05/03/2014 12:47 PM
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty ~ Thomas Jefferson
Sol Neman  (OP)

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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
Vigil honors Missoula exchange student

'MISSOULA - An emotional candlelight vigil to honor the memory of Diren Dede was held Friday night.

Dede, a 17-year-old Big Sky High School exchange student from Germany, was shot and killed last Sunday.

More than 200 people came out to the soccer field at Fort Missoula where Dede played soccer.

The gathering included close friends as well as those who didn't know him.

A table was set up for some to sign cards and leaves messages. Balloons in the German and US flags were set up to show unity.

Dede's soccer coach said it had been a tough week, and shared his memories. He also said he hopes people will stand together in light of what he called a tragic event....'


[link to www.ktvq.com]
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Sol Neman  (OP)

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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
Engen: Mayors Against Illegal Guns want 'common-sense' laws

'Missoula Mayor John Engen said while international media have focused on the recent shooting of a teenager by a Grant Creek homeowner claiming self-defense, a national gun violence group he belongs to has not dug into the so-called “castle doctrine” yet.

“I am a member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns,” Engen said Friday. “My part in that is about promoting common-sense gun laws, and chief among those are programs for expanded background checks. I think other common-sense gun organizations are paying attention to this, but I haven’t had contact on this issue.”

German exchange student Diren Dede was killed while allegedly trespassing in the garage of Missoula homeowner Markus Kaarma on April 27.

Kaarma has been charged with felony deliberate homicide, but his lawyer plans to claim self-defense under Montana’s “defense of an occupied structure” law. It’s a variation of the “your home is your castle” doctrine, absolving a shooter of guilt for using lethal force for self-defense at home....'


[link to missoulian.com]
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty ~ Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
he was a turk. not german. he acted turkish he was a criminal and he will be burried in turkey. the only thing german about that boy was the wellfare check they recaived every month
Sol Neman  (OP)

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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
Father of dead Missoula exchange student slams gun culture

'The father of a 17-year-old exchange student shot dead in Missoula’s Grant Creek neighborhood departed the U.S. on Thursday after criticizing the nation’s gun culture and arranging for his son’s body to be flown back to Germany.

Celal Dede flew out of Missoula after securing the release of Diren Dede’s body, which was transported from Montana on Wednesday afternoon, said German consulate spokeswoman Julia Reinhardt.

Before he departed, Celal Dede told the German news agency dpa that he had never imagined his son could be shot for simply entering somebody’s property.

“America cannot continue to play cowboy,” Celal Dede said.

On Sunday, homeowner Markus Kaarma fired four blasts from a shotgun into his garage, killing Diren Dede. He faces a charge of deliberate homicide....'


[link to missoulian.com]
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Sol Neman  (OP)

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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
he was a turk. not german. he acted turkish he was a criminal and he will be burried in turkey. the only thing german about that boy was the wellfare check they recaived every month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57648461


Interesting.

That is mentioned towards the bottom of the last article I posted.

'....A big banner saying “Our brother is dying while America is looking on” was put up on the sidelines of the soccer field. Some bystanders laid roses for Dede.

Dpa reported that Dede would be buried in Bodrum, Turkey, after a memorial service at Yeni-Beyazit Mosque in Hamburg. Dede’s relatives are German-Turkish immigrants....'


[link to missoulian.com]
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty ~ Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
Homeowner violated one of the 4 rules.(Always be sure of your target) and could have killed a family member or friend.

He is also on record as having left valuables in sight to lure the burglars in as well as setting up surveillance equipment due to being burglarized recently.

The man is a disgrace to law-abiding gun owners and will likely fry even in the gun-friendly state of Montana.
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2014 01:09 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
he was a turk. not german. he acted turkish he was a criminal and he will be burried in turkey. the only thing german about that boy was the wellfare check they recaived every month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57648461



He was a criminal and had broken into the man's house before. He had a German passport, but both his parents are Turks. Thus the embarrassment. Nobody in Germany would care if it was a native German. It is the Turkish community that is making a big deal out of this. Death threats and so on.
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05/03/2014 01:13 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
Homeowner violated one of the 4 rules.(Always be sure of your target) and could have killed a family member or friend.

He is also on record as having left valuables in sight to lure the burglars in as well as setting up surveillance equipment due to being burglarized recently.

The man is a disgrace to law-abiding gun owners and will likely fry even in the gun-friendly state of Montana.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9603635


How to catch a thief?
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2014 01:18 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
According to the news article...

[link to www.msnbc.com]

...the home owner set up a trap for the guy, then executed him when he saw him in the garage. This was the same type of scenario that happened with the case in Minnesota, where the guy set up a trap and executed the two teenagers.

As with the homeowner in Minnesota, this guy will likely be charged and convicted of 1st degree murder.

Sorry folks, but you can't just execute people who wander onto your property or come into your house unless you identify that they actually present a physical threat.

I remember a case almost 20 or so years ago of a mentally retarded man who wandered into someone's house and the homeowner killed him. This is what happens when people shoot first without even taking a second to assess the situation.

There are cases where homeowners have shot their own relatives, mistaking them for burglars. People just can't be all trigger happy all the damn time.

Owning a gun is a huge responsibility. It saddens me that so many gun owners lack critical thinking skills. It's idiots like this home owner that provide the anti-gun lobby with so much support and arguments against gun ownership.
Sol Neman  (OP)

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05/03/2014 01:22 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
Homeowner violated one of the 4 rules.(Always be sure of your target) and could have killed a family member or friend.

He is also on record as having left valuables in sight to lure the burglars in as well as setting up surveillance equipment due to being burglarized recently.

The man is a disgrace to law-abiding gun owners and will likely fry even in the gun-friendly state of Montana.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9603635


I agree...You must always know what your target is. Randomly shooting, in a sweeping motion, into an unlit garage is incredibly unsafe.

The 'baiting' thing alarms me as well. If a civilian wants to set up a sting operation such as this it should only be to get video/audio evidence or to detain the person caught in the act until law enforcement can arrest them so they can be given due process.

If the person breaks into your home and catches you off guard then by all means protect you and yours, but before you do, be sure of what your target is and what is behind said target.
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty ~ Thomas Jefferson
Sol Neman  (OP)

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05/03/2014 01:29 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
According to the news article...

[link to www.msnbc.com]

...the home owner set up a trap for the guy, then executed him when he saw him in the garage. This was the same type of scenario that happened with the case in Minnesota, where the guy set up a trap and executed the two teenagers.

As with the homeowner in Minnesota, this guy will likely be charged and convicted of 1st degree murder.

Sorry folks, but you can't just execute people who wander onto your property or come into your house unless you identify that they actually present a physical threat.

I remember a case almost 20 or so years ago of a mentally retarded man who wandered into someone's house and the homeowner killed him. This is what happens when people shoot first without even taking a second to assess the situation.

There are cases where homeowners have shot their own relatives, mistaking them for burglars. People just can't be all trigger happy all the damn time.

Owning a gun is a huge responsibility. It saddens me that so many gun owners lack critical thinking skills. It's idiots like this home owner that provide the anti-gun lobby with so much support and arguments against gun ownership.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57618780


Coincidentally a little more than an hour before the shooting in Missoula, across the state in Billings there was another teenager shot in a garage and that person had been staying with the home owner. Thankfully the person shot did not die.

Police say 19-year-old accidentally shot by homeowner he was staying with

'....Around 11 p.m., Billings police responded to a report of a shooting at 1328 Mirror Lake Lane off Lake Elmo Drive.

Sgt. Pat Curry said that the 19-year-old man was in the garage of the house making a phone call. The man was a family friend of the 50-year-old homeowner, who was letting the 19-year-old stay with him while he attends seminary school in town.

The 19-year-old was being quiet so as not to wake anyone in the home, Curry said, and the homeowner mistook the man for an intruder and shot him....'


[link to billingsgazette.com]
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty ~ Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous Coward
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05/03/2014 01:33 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
According to the news article...

[link to www.msnbc.com]

...the home owner set up a trap for the guy, then executed him when he saw him in the garage. This was the same type of scenario that happened with the case in Minnesota, where the guy set up a trap and executed the two teenagers.

As with the homeowner in Minnesota, this guy will likely be charged and convicted of 1st degree murder.

Sorry folks, but you can't just execute people who wander onto your property or come into your house unless you identify that they actually present a physical threat.

I remember a case almost 20 or so years ago of a mentally retarded man who wandered into someone's house and the homeowner killed him. This is what happens when people shoot first without even taking a second to assess the situation.

There are cases where homeowners have shot their own relatives, mistaking them for burglars. People just can't be all trigger happy all the damn time.

Owning a gun is a huge responsibility. It saddens me that so many gun owners lack critical thinking skills. It's idiots like this home owner that provide the anti-gun lobby with so much support and arguments against gun ownership.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57618780


Coincidentally a little more than an hour before the shooting in Missoula, across the state in Billings there was another teenager shot in a garage and that person had been staying with the home owner. Thankfully the person shot did not die.

Police say 19-year-old accidentally shot by homeowner he was staying with

'....Around 11 p.m., Billings police responded to a report of a shooting at 1328 Mirror Lake Lane off Lake Elmo Drive.

Sgt. Pat Curry said that the 19-year-old man was in the garage of the house making a phone call. The man was a family friend of the 50-year-old homeowner, who was letting the 19-year-old stay with him while he attends seminary school in town.

The 19-year-old was being quiet so as not to wake anyone in the home, Curry said, and the homeowner mistook the man for an intruder and shot him....'


[link to billingsgazette.com]
 Quoting: Sol Neman


putin

I don't understand why Americans are so damn fearful. They're afraid of shadows in the dark!

People living in fear, thinking their guns will protect them from the boogeyman.
Sol Neman  (OP)

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05/03/2014 01:43 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
According to the news article...

[link to www.msnbc.com]

...the home owner set up a trap for the guy, then executed him when he saw him in the garage. This was the same type of scenario that happened with the case in Minnesota, where the guy set up a trap and executed the two teenagers.

As with the homeowner in Minnesota, this guy will likely be charged and convicted of 1st degree murder.

Sorry folks, but you can't just execute people who wander onto your property or come into your house unless you identify that they actually present a physical threat.

I remember a case almost 20 or so years ago of a mentally retarded man who wandered into someone's house and the homeowner killed him. This is what happens when people shoot first without even taking a second to assess the situation.

There are cases where homeowners have shot their own relatives, mistaking them for burglars. People just can't be all trigger happy all the damn time.

Owning a gun is a huge responsibility. It saddens me that so many gun owners lack critical thinking skills. It's idiots like this home owner that provide the anti-gun lobby with so much support and arguments against gun ownership.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57618780


Coincidentally a little more than an hour before the shooting in Missoula, across the state in Billings there was another teenager shot in a garage and that person had been staying with the home owner. Thankfully the person shot did not die.

Police say 19-year-old accidentally shot by homeowner he was staying with

'....Around 11 p.m., Billings police responded to a report of a shooting at 1328 Mirror Lake Lane off Lake Elmo Drive.

Sgt. Pat Curry said that the 19-year-old man was in the garage of the house making a phone call. The man was a family friend of the 50-year-old homeowner, who was letting the 19-year-old stay with him while he attends seminary school in town.

The 19-year-old was being quiet so as not to wake anyone in the home, Curry said, and the homeowner mistook the man for an intruder and shot him....'


[link to billingsgazette.com]
 Quoting: Sol Neman


putin

I don't understand why Americans are so damn fearful. They're afraid of shadows in the dark!

People living in fear, thinking their guns will protect them from the boogeyman.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57618780


Paranoia will destroy ya....

I am all about being prepared for as many possible scenarios as you can think of, but on the same token, I agree, people seem afraid of everything now. They don't even want to talk to their neighbor or let their kids out of the yard or maybe even outside.

I remember being out of my parent's sight until dark, playing with friends, riding my bike, climbing trees, etc...

What has happened? Are bad things happening more frequently or are they only being reported more often than they once were so our perception tells us it is more dangerous now and we must shelter ourselves and our families?

Last Edited by Sol Neman on 05/08/2014 11:15 PM
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty ~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
bsflagbsflag

That filthy teen was NOT GERMAN. He was nothing but a low life anchor baby Turk born in German. That does NOT make him GERMAN.

Germanic genes are the closet to perfection allowed by human evolution.

I am glad the homeowner was charged with homicide because he was an idiot who broke the rules but the facts remain that this filthy Turk was nothing more than a Turk. NOT A GERMAN.
da clappa
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
he was a turk. not german. he acted turkish he was a criminal and he will be burried in turkey. the only thing german about that boy was the wellfare check they recaived every month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57648461


clappaclappaclappaclappa
Sol Neman  (OP)

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05/03/2014 02:16 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
Regardless of the guy's nationality...I am curious to see how this will be spun politically. Never let a crisis go to waste right?

This situation has called into question the castle doctrine (stand your ground) again, it can be used as a spring board for more gun control laws. In addition, it sounds like the person shot or at least his family are Muslim, as he is being buried at a mosque. We already have strained relations with Germany. Oh yea, Turkey is also involved...

This could end up being pushed aside and out of the public eye or it could get much, much bigger and be the catalyst of things to come.

Your thoughts?
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty ~ Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous Coward
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05/08/2014 11:32 AM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
This will be used as an justification to implement the UN Arms Trade Treaty in the US.
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
he was a turk. not german. he acted turkish he was a criminal and he will be burried in turkey. the only thing german about that boy was the wellfare check they recaived every month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57648461


hesright
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
he was a turk. not german. he acted turkish he was a criminal and he will be burried in turkey. the only thing german about that boy was the wellfare check they recaived every month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57648461


bump
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
he was a turk. not german. he acted turkish he was a criminal and he will be burried in turkey. the only thing german about that boy was the wellfare check they recaived every month
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57648461



He was a criminal and had broken into the man's house before. He had a German passport, but both his parents are Turks. Thus the embarrassment. Nobody in Germany would care if it was a native German. It is the Turkish community that is making a big deal out of this. Death threats and so on.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57648519


Turks...in Germany...WTF.

Where they originally let in after WW2 as cheap labor to rebuild ?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
Maybe they should send a flotilla to Montana...
Em18966

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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
Didn't they just nail some other dude for doing almost the same thing the other day? Only they charged and convicted him of first degree murder for setting a trap for burglars and executing them and getting it all on tape?

You can't just execute people.

Unless you're the police, then you can shoot any mother fucker that gets lippy.
Anonymous Coward
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05/08/2014 12:18 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
Garage Hopping ? I never heard of that scratching The other story says two exchange students were garage hopping the other student was from Equador and he ran off when shots were fired . He was questioned by police and is now back in Equador .
Sirrx7

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05/08/2014 12:20 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
This dude is fucked!!!
The comments about waiting to shoot a kid is going to be what really does him in. Hell, those words might even be enough for prosecutors to push for premeditated.

He and his wife are pretty damned stupid though. You never make your intentions public and you never admit that you set a trap.

That being said, the kid was still garbage for going after the bait. Any kid that was raised right would have known better.
Anonymous Coward
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05/08/2014 12:42 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
He should go to prison. He set out to kill someone when he set that trap. Wouldn't he rather capture him alive? I would. Regardless, people like this have no business owning guns. They give every other gun owner a bad name. These are the types of people who get drunk with friends and then target shoot, or shoot deer out of their car window.
tegul
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
-


Here is an honest alert for foreigners in America...

If you don't want to get shot while we tolerate your visit to our Country, do not trespass and steal peoples hard earned property.

Thank You, and please enjoy your stay.
tegul
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05/08/2014 01:35 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
This will be used as an justification to implement the UN Arms Trade Treaty in the US.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8412858




Hmmmmm, interesting.
Anonymous Coward
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05/08/2014 04:20 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
He should go to prison. He set out to kill someone when he set that trap. Wouldn't he rather capture him alive? I would. Regardless, people like this have no business owning guns. They give every other gun owner a bad name. These are the types of people who get drunk with friends and then target shoot, or shoot deer out of their car window.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57037612


s226 He was in his house with his lady and his baby and these punks had robbed his garage twice before you Idiot . He was not driving around shooting deer out his window .He was a firefighter .
Anonymous Coward
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05/08/2014 04:28 PM
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Re: Montana man charged with homicide after shooting foreign-exchange student, claims self-defense.
in germany all the wetbacks are turkish





GLP