Todays International Concert pitch of A=440 Hz is the unnatural standard tuning frequency, removed from the symmetry of sacred vibrations

Cue the South Park brown note in 1, 2, 3....

Amazing! Thanks for posting this. Most hard rock is played in the key of A, which is 440 HZ. Explains a lot.

Brilliant. Thanks for posting this.

I like the photo of 440 Vs. 432

as they say, a picture is worth a million words ;-)

You know what is interesting, Most of the guitarists who's music has become timeless have incorporated what is known as half step down tuning.

what is 1/2 step down guitar tuning?


half step down basically means that you are tuning each string down half a step E.g the 6th string or your bass E string will be tuned down to D#, essentailly tuning down half a step..... each string will be tuned down half a step as well. the strings will be tuned to D# G# C# F# A# D#.

E♭ (E‐flat) tuning or D♯ (D‐sharp) tuning is an alternative form of guitar tuning. It is based on the standard guitar tuning, except that all of the strings are lowered by one half‐step. The result looks like this: E♭‐A♭‐D♭‐G♭‐B​♭‐E♭. The guitar is usually played identically to standard tuning, resulting in a heavier tone without requiring the guitarist to learn different chords or fingering.

The tuning has a number of other features attractive to artists. It allows the use of heavier strings without decreasing playability. The tuning is also easier to play with a saxophone accompaniment (saxophones are usually tuned to B♭ or E♭). It can also be matched with the E♭ pentatonic minor scale formed by the black keys of a keyboard.

Blues legend Robert Johnson was one of the first to experiment with alternate guitar tunings such as E♭. Jimi Hendrix was also famous for tuning down a half-step, and Stevie Ray Vaughan used it almost exclusively in his electric guitar playing, as did Slash of Guns N' Roses fame. The tuning remains very popular in rock and blues music...

Half step down tuning still does not produce perfect sacred geometry but it is way matter than being in 440 Hz.

Other artists known to use E♭[edit]

AC/DC - on "Night Prowler", "Ruff Stuff", "Love Hungry Man", "Get it Hot" and live performances since 2008.

AFI - since "Sing The Sorrow".

Agalloch

Alcest

Alice Cooper - The guitars in Alice Cooper's have been tuned a half step down on select live songs since circa 1998.

Alice in Chains (most songs, dubbed 'Standard Alice tuning' by Jerry Cantrell).

Anthrax (on live performances and some songs on Persistence of Time, "Black Lodge" from Sound of White Noise and most songs on all studio albums since Volume 8: The Threat Is Real).

Black Sabbath during live performances, to ease the stress on guitarist Tony Iommi's fingers, which had been amputated by an accident at a sheet metal factory. This tuning is predominant on studio and live recordings featuring Ronnie James Dio and Tony Martin as lead vocalists, as well as the 13 album. Tony Iommi predominately used C# (3 half steps) tuning on Masters of Reality, Volume 4 and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath recordings.

Black Stone Cherry (also on live performances of E-tuned songs).

Bon Jovi - on live performances since 1988.
Brand New - all/nearly all songs on "Your Favorite Weapon" and "Déjà Entendu" albums.

Buckethead – used on many compositions and live performances.

Danzig - on all albums since Danzig III: How the Gods Kill, and on all songs on Danzig and Danzig II: Lucifuge since 1990.

Def Leppard - on the song Photograph and during live performances.

DragonForce (live performances from 2006 to 2010). Also the primary cause for their controversy from Graspop 2006.

Dream Theater - on the songs "Stream of Consciousness" and "The Root of All Evil".

Green Day (used for the entity of their Dookie album and Insomniac album and used for some of the songs off Kerplunk and for the songs "21st Century Breakdown" and "Before the Lobotomy").

Guns N' Roses (most songs).

Jimi Hendrix Experience - most of their songs. Some examples: "Red House", "Voodoo Child (Slight Return)", "Spanish Castle Magic", "All Along the Watchtower".

Judas Priest - on "Reckless", "Burn in Hell", "Bullet

Train", "Hellrider", "Eulogy", "Lochness", and live performances since Rob Halford's return.

Kiss - Most songs

Lynyrd Skynyrd - on Simple Man.

Megadeth - on Youthanasia and songs "Angry Again", "Diadems" and "Problems".

Metallica - on "The God That Failed", and "Killing Time", the albums Load, ReLoad and Garage Inc., and on all standard tuned songs in live performances since 1995.

Motörhead - on most albums since their second album Overkill and on some E-tuned songs in live performances since 1978.

Muse - On songs such as "Animals", recent live performances of "Starlight", and "United States of Eurasia"
Nightingale (band)

Nirvana - Some songs on Bleach and Incesticide and most songs on In Utero.
Nevermore (until Dead Heart in a Dead World when, from then onwards, seven strings were mostly used and tuned to B♭).
Neverest during live performances and acoustic renderings of most songs.

The Offspring tune to E♭ during live performances.
Oasis-For the song Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is.

Our Lady Peace

Ozzy Osbourne (On the albums Diary Of A Madman, The Ultimate and all material with Zakk Wylde, with the exception of Black Rain).

Pantera on Strength Beyond Strength from Far Beyond Driven

Queens of the Stone Age (on "The Sky Is Fallin'")

Rage Against The Machine (used on Bulls on Parade)

Revocation (Most songs)

R.E.M. (used on Harborcoat)
Rise Against (since Revolutions per Minute).

Scorpions (live performances on some songs and many songs with Uli Jon Roth).

The Smashing Pumpkins - Used on "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness". Billy Corgan stated the tuning was used to give the album a darker sound. In modern times originally E tuned songs now are in E♭ in live performances.

Stone Sour (mostly used on their softer songs, or "songs for the ladies" as said by Jim Root).[1]

Sum 41 - On some songs on the album "Does This Look Infected?", most of the album "Chuck" and most songs when played live[2]

System of a Down (on "Lost in Hollywood" and "Lonely Day")

Thin Lizzy - Fighting, Jailbreak, Johnny the Fox, Bad Reputation and Black Rose: A Rock Legend are mostly in E♭ tuning, and all live performances since 1975 have been in E♭.

Trivium - on some songs and for In Waves album

U2 - on Boy, War and many live versions of songs originally written in standard tuning.
Warrant - on albums "Dirty Rotten Filthy Stinking Rich" (though some songs are 1/4 step down), "Cherry Pie", and "Rockaholic"

Weezer - Most songs written in the "Blue album" and

Pinkerton periods were in E♭ tuning.

Van Halen - on most songs and during recent live performances.

Yngwie Malmsteen (most songs).

Five stars for the thread, and this for you OP--


Thread: Gratitude for the awakened and sober of spirit and purpose

Ditto ^^^^

And,

.....
You know what is interesting, Most of the guitarists who's music has become timeless have incorporated what is known as half step down tuning.

what is 1/2 step down guitar tuning?


half step down basically means that you are tuning each string down half a step E.g the 6th string or your bass E string will be tuned down to D#, essentailly tuning down half a step..... each string will be tuned down half a step as well. the strings will be tuned to D# G# C# F# A# D#.
......

That is interesting!!!!

Thank you so much, Just passing it along ;-)

you sound a little confused. "A" does not automatically mean 440, it's how you tune the A to reach that frequency or 432's.

A=440 is the standard

I guess the point is that the A position CAN be tuned to anything but if it's NOT in 440HZ then it's not in the accepted Standard Tuning as stated in this thread.

I hold this 440 vs 432 to be bad science. A myth-wishful thinking.

As for the water pictures, if you change the size of the bucket, you will get a different result.

YES! No convincing proof has been given or quoted, even on GLP, that establishes scientifically that 432 Hz is in some way "better than" more natural than", more healthful than" 440 Hz. As Manassas says, the picture does not prove anything, since changing the size of the bucket will change the pattern, as the result is a combination of the wavelength in the water's surface and the dimensions of the container. Would anybody out there care to refute this, and supply REAL scientific proof of what has been asserted without proof?

Actually that is very incorrect

Look into the subject of cymatics and educate yourself before you speak.

[link to www.ted.com]

The issue of musical tuning is important. The "Verdi tuning" is actually based on the primacy of the human singing voice, which has very distinct register breaks which are biologically determined, not mathematically determined. The use of different registral "colors" by classical composers, and the corresponding colors in the musical instruments, created beautiful polyphony.

Check out www.swb256.com for background articles on Verdi Tuning. The decision to raise the tuning arbitrarily is part of the larger attack on science generally.

[link to www.swb256.com]

Acutally this has been studied and there is an entire institute set up around this purpose to return music to it's more natural tuning of A=432hz (middle C=256hz). Musical notes played in a scale based on A=432hz tuning have a greater abundance of overtones and natural harmonics, as well as greater resonance meaning the sound is more powerful and the music is clearer and does not have to be played as loud resulting in hearing damage. Compared with music based on 440hz, which produces stunted overtones and needs to be turned louder to hear clearly. Aside from this the most convincing evidence however for me has not been not found in a science journal but in direct experience listening to and especially playing music in both tunings. I was very skeptical and not jumping on any bandwagon, but have played in this and many other reference pitches for years now to see for myself and I can say with absolute certainty that playing music in 432hz lends more depth and feeling to music, much more so than 440hz which sounds and feels constricted by comparison.

[link to www.schillerinstitute.org]

I've been casually researching this for years, comparing what I read with how the tunings sound on my old Taylor guitar.

There seems to be some push for 432Hz on the internet, but also some discussion of 428Hz...so I've compromised with 430. They are not far apart, and all seem to resonate with my body better than 440Hz.

I'm sure this has something to do with the Chakra energy-transfer hubs that are supposed to be within the body, which most likely fall within the normal range of human voice. We are all musical beings...it seems a large part of how we're built.

I'd love to calculate precisely what middle-A is when C below it is tuned to 256Hz. That frequency is associated with the monochord mathematics from Pythagoras...which seem to dovetail correctly with the Schumann Resonance of the Earth (which is within the core brain resonances in every one of us)...given that octaves are 'supposed' to be with every halving or doubling of the Hertzian-measured frequency.

I'm sure it is close to the old tuning of Middle A than 440Hz is...and since it was brought up...many metal and harder rock music is tuned even more stridently, which is why most of the guitar tuners you can buy at Guitar Center go UP from 440...but the new Snark-branded one will go up or down.

Cheers,
John
Detroit

132 classic rock titles, in 432 Hz...if you please--




[link to www.youtube.com]

as a person who that makes music for a living i find this 432hz thing a bit nonsensical.

1. we can't even really talk about "pure" music with "pure" tones and "pure" vibrations when we consider how guitars (fretted instruments) and pianos are tuned...using the
equal-tempered system. with the equal-temperament system virtually ALL notes on a piano/synth/guitar/fretted-bass are actually OUT-OF-TUNE.

1a. one of the most fundamental tuning intervals, the "perfect" fifth, is actually 2 cents flat. all the time. and yes it makes a difference.

1b. with equal-temperament...certain notes are played with the same fret/key. a#=Bb. c#=Db. d#=Eb. f#=Gb. G#=Ab.

the thing is, if you use "pure" pythagorean ratios...these notes are not (and should not) be the same. an a# is NOT a Bb, a C# is NOT a Db, etc.etc.


2. non-tempered instruments...such as non-fretted string instruments like the violin/viola/cello/upright bass...or the human voice...is not limited to this tempered system. a violin will tune to PERFECT fifths (2 cents sharper than an equal-tempered fifth)...and you know you're in tune because the overtones absolutely lock in and everything vibrates/rings better. tune to the 2-cents flat equal-tempered system and things don't ring as well any more.

all the other notes in the scale follow the pythagorean ratios...using the pythagorean temperament (a# is not Bb, etc.). however, when playing two or more notes at the same time the pitch shifts slightly again to match what is needed in a chord (using the just temperament)

to a trained non-tempered musician...all pianos and guitars sound slightly out-of-tune and they must account and adjust for this when playing with those instruments.

3. so it's curious that many of these proponents of the 432hz system use music that is based on the equal-tempered system...namely pop music with its guitars.


4. otoh you have a whole library of classical music (generally non-tempered) which is soothing even though it is based on a440.


5. and what of non-western based styles of music which relies on microtonality and doesn't have any sense of pitch center like a432?


6. so this whole idea that 432hz makes sense when you look at the individual hz for each note...is utter hogwash because those notes listed are based on the EQUAL-TEMPERAMENT scale which is NON-PURE to begin with.

and just some further added tidbits...

7. historically the pitch-center for any work of music was really a bit all-over-the-place. strings weren't as stable as they are now...they couldn't hold a pitch...musicians had to tune to harpsichords and organs which are so temperamental to the weather and will change at a whim...
heck tuning forks throughout history were all based on varying hz's. so this idea that a440 was set to move people away from the pure a432...when the reality is that there realistically was no unified a432 to begin with at all...well hrms.

8. some of the proof that a432 is beautiful and natural is the pattern that it makes in water. at the same time i've seen that the proof that mozart's music is beautiful is the resulting pretty ice crystal shapes it makes in water. but was that recording of mozart's played with a432? i'd wager IT WAS NOT.

to me anyhing in a432 just sounds flat. many orchestras will tune higher than a440 (a444, a442, etc.) because it makes them sound more brilliant. so then the reverse will be true as well.

anyways...

and just to clarify...

things vibrate and ring MORE when you use pure temperaments like pythagorean and just.

non-tempered instruments like the violin/viola/cello/etc. and the voice naturally will use these pure temperaments when they play in tune.

a piano tuned to the equal-temperament system...and any fretted instrument like the guitar/e.bass/etc. will never ring/vibrate as much as it can because the notes are actually all slightly out-of-tune and so the overtones/harmonics don't ring as they can.

so this idea that 432hz makes things ring/vibrate more is nonsensical especially when the example is applied using the equal-tempered scale...or music based on the equal-tempered scale (most pop-music.)

tuning the piano to the key its playing in (and pianists WILL do this in competitions)...or somehow adjusting each individual fret to the actual key its playing in...would make the instrument/music ring WAY MORE because the harmonics would be locked in to the actual pythagorean note ratios.

One of the more obscure tuning reference pitches is to the human voice, especially the cantors.

I personally use reference pitch A=415Hz. It works well in chamber music settings. The timbre & resonance is richer, fuller, rounder. And the lower tension is gentler on both gut & brass strings. Fewer blow outs LoL


ETA Recording & manipulating the sound freqs is NOT the same as experiencing it live. The dynamics aren't the same.

Last Edited by I'mpossible on 07/23/2014 07:57 PM

I'm not quite sure where the 432hz came from myself as the main reference pitch I hear about from classical music is middle C=256hz which would be A=430hz approximately, rather than 432hz. Tuning is not an exact science, but obviously frequencies have an effect on our consciousness and our biology, everything around us is vibratory in nature, so some frequencies are going to sound 'better' to us and affect us in a more positive way than others. To me the issue is not so much that 432hz is the magical healing fequency that some think it is, but that 440hz certainly is NOT what we should be tuning to. Certainly A=430 or 432hz is a better alternative.

And then you can go down the rabbit hole as to why certain groups were so insistent on implementing an international standard of 440hz, and who those people were that were behind this? Why would it be so important to them? Why did they want the standard at 440hz, despite the protest of muscians and singers and the fact that many classical artists used a reference of middle C=256hz?


[link to www.schillerinstitute.org]

When I tried this last night, I decided to check where 415Hz puts you on a standard 440Hz measurement. It is exactly a half-step down...so you're playing D#,G#,C#,F#,A#,D#.


So now I'll have to try 420Hz=middleA. I'm sure I've done this experiment before, but I've forgotten.



Cheers,
John
Detroit