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NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017

 
Setheory
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NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel?

[link to www.wired.co.uk]

"Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma."

Updated Link:
[link to www.inverse.com (secure)]

Last Edited by Setheory on 08/14/2017 11:56 AM
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
Setheory  (OP)

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07/31/2014 02:46 PM
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
According to the law of conservation of momentum, this technology should not work.

I’m off to read the actual papers……

goodnews

Last Edited by Setheory on 07/31/2014 02:48 PM
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
Setheory  (OP)

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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Here is the paper entitled: Anomalous Thrust Production from an RF Test Device Measured on a Low-Thrust Torsion Pendulum

[link to ntrs.nasa.gov]
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
Setheory  (OP)

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07/31/2014 03:03 PM
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Here is the paper entitled: Anomalous Thrust Production from an RF Test Device Measured on a Low-Thrust Torsion Pendulum

[link to ntrs.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: Setheory


Just read the first paper and this certainly seems legit. “Technically” this does seem to break the law of conservation of momentum.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
The Joker

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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Cool stuff! goodnews
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07/31/2014 03:10 PM
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
This is what they use to control the Moon right?
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07/31/2014 03:10 PM

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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017

I'm tired of waiting, somebody push the damn button already!

Keep your 72 virgins, give me one old biker chick.
Setheory  (OP)

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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Cool stuff! goodnews
 Quoting: The Joker


The idea that we might potentially be traveling the solar system via technology we don’t fully understand is actually a pretty cool thought.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
Anonymous Coward
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07/31/2014 03:15 PM
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Interesting, it's just like a carrot in the end of a stick.

Apparently they must have been utilizing such technology atleast 70 years ago to account for modern eyewitness UFO accounts.

No harm, no foul..
Useless Cookie Eater

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07/31/2014 03:18 PM
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel?

[link to www.wired.co.uk]

"Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma."
 Quoting: Setheory


Will wonders never cease.
The Chinese INVENTED something....rather than STEAL IT like they always do.

Whoda' thought. rolleyes
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07/31/2014 03:18 PM

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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel?

[link to www.wired.co.uk]

"Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma."
 Quoting: Setheory

Dude, sweet find! If this is true, this completely changes everything in spaceflight. A propellant-less thruster, this would nearly render the tsiolkovsky rocket equation pointless for all future spaceflight (except perhaps for getting into orbit initially). 720 mN is amazing if true, the ion engine on the Dawn spacecraft only produces 90 mN, and even an ion engine must expend fuel (albeit with very high isp). Not as high thrust as Vasimr, but still much better than ion. Buzz Aldrin's idea of not coming back from a trip to Mars to make it more feasible? Fuck that, you suddenly don't need to expend fuel to break Martian orbit and return to earth. This changes the entire paradigm of spaceflight, if it really does pan out. You could load a bunch of these up on your manned spacecraft and use as much payload fraction for life support and supplies as you please without having to worry about what it will do to your delta-V budget - you don't have a delta-V budget, you have unlimited delta-V as long as you have power.

The one concern I have is that in the NASA test they report much lower thrust, 50mN, similar to ion engines (perhaps due to test article differences/power levels?) and even their "null" test article produced thrust. That sends a red flag up in my mind that it could be a spurious detection of thrust that isn't really there due to some sort of interference with the test equipment, but I don't know how. I just don't want to get my hopes up over nothing, but I'm going to be seeing a former astronaut this weekend and I will definitely ask him if he knows anything about this.
[link to ntrs.nasa.gov]

Last Edited by Astromut on 07/31/2014 03:25 PM
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Cool stuff! goodnews
 Quoting: The Joker


The idea that we might potentially be traveling the solar system via technology we don’t fully understand is actually a pretty cool thought.
 Quoting: Setheory


Why not? Many of the medicines we take work but the researchers are not sure how.

.
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07/31/2014 03:25 PM

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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Fake trip to Mars imminent.
Let’s go Brandon!
Fuck the left!
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07/31/2014 03:28 PM
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
bump
Setheory  (OP)

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07/31/2014 03:31 PM
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel?

[link to www.wired.co.uk]

"Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma."
 Quoting: Setheory

Dude, sweet find! If this is true, this completely changes everything in spaceflight. A propellant-less thruster, this would nearly render the tsiolkovsky rocket equation pointless for all future spaceflight (except perhaps for getting into orbit initially). 720 mN is amazing if true, the ion engine on the Dawn spacecraft only produces 90 mN, and even an ion engine must expend fuel (albeit with very high isp). Not as high thrust as Vasimr, but still much better than ion. Buzz Aldrin's idea of not coming back from a trip to Mars to make it more feasible? Fuck that, you suddenly don't need to expend fuel to break Martian orbit and return to earth. This changes the entire paradigm of spaceflight, if it really does pan out. You could load a bunch of these up on your manned spacecraft and use as much payload fraction for life support and supplies as you please without having to worry about what it will do to your delta-V budget - you don't have a delta-V budget, you have unlimited delta-V as long as you have power.

The one concern I have is that in the NASA test they report much lower thrust, 50mN, similar to ion engines and even their "null" test article produced thrust. That sends a red flag up in my mind that it could be a spurious detection of thrust that isn't really there due to some sort of interference with the test equipment, but I don't know how. I just don't want to get my hopes up over nothing, but I'm going to be seeing a former astronaut this weekend and I will definitely ask him if he knows anything about this.
[link to ntrs.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: Dr. Astro



It looked as though they went into the testing with the sole purpose of protecting against such interference, as they were very skeptical of the Chinese claims. I got the impression that the cautionary statement at the end of the paper was more of a “WTF is happening here?”, but time will tell.

I'm going to go read the Chinese paper now.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
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07/31/2014 03:33 PM

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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel?

[link to www.wired.co.uk]

"Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma."
 Quoting: Setheory

Dude, sweet find! If this is true, this completely changes everything in spaceflight. A propellant-less thruster, this would nearly render the tsiolkovsky rocket equation pointless for all future spaceflight (except perhaps for getting into orbit initially). 720 mN is amazing if true, the ion engine on the Dawn spacecraft only produces 90 mN, and even an ion engine must expend fuel (albeit with very high isp). Not as high thrust as Vasimr, but still much better than ion. Buzz Aldrin's idea of not coming back from a trip to Mars to make it more feasible? Fuck that, you suddenly don't need to expend fuel to break Martian orbit and return to earth. This changes the entire paradigm of spaceflight, if it really does pan out. You could load a bunch of these up on your manned spacecraft and use as much payload fraction for life support and supplies as you please without having to worry about what it will do to your delta-V budget - you don't have a delta-V budget, you have unlimited delta-V as long as you have power.

The one concern I have is that in the NASA test they report much lower thrust, 50mN, similar to ion engines and even their "null" test article produced thrust. That sends a red flag up in my mind that it could be a spurious detection of thrust that isn't really there due to some sort of interference with the test equipment, but I don't know how. I just don't want to get my hopes up over nothing, but I'm going to be seeing a former astronaut this weekend and I will definitely ask him if he knows anything about this.
[link to ntrs.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: Dr. Astro



It looked as though they went into the testing with the sole purpose of protecting against such interference, as they were very skeptical of the Chinese claims. I got the impression that the cautionary statement at the end of the paper was more of a “WTF is happening here?”, but time will tell.

I'm going to go read the Chinese paper now.
 Quoting: Setheory


Let me know what you find, I'm going to ask former astronaut Tom Jones if he knows anything about this this weekend. My guess is probably not, but who knows, maybe he still keeps a close ear to the ground with NASA.
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
This is what they use to control the Moon right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 53467120

No, it isn't.
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel?

[link to www.wired.co.uk]

"Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma."
 Quoting: Setheory


Will wonders never cease.
The Chinese INVENTED something....rather than STEAL IT like they always do.

Whoda' thought. rolleyes
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


Well actually, the inventor is British.
astrobanner2
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07/31/2014 03:38 PM
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Cool stuff! goodnews
 Quoting: The Joker


The idea that we might potentially be traveling the solar system via technology we don’t fully understand is actually a pretty cool thought.
 Quoting: Setheory


They already have been doing it since the 1950's. Check, Mars Proyect at bibliotecapleyades.net
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Here is the paper entitled: Anomalous Thrust Production from an RF Test Device Measured on a Low-Thrust Torsion Pendulum

[link to ntrs.nasa.gov]
 Quoting: Setheory


Just read the first paper and this certainly seems legit. “Technically” this does seem to break the law of conservation of momentum.
 Quoting: Setheory


I am no expert in any relevant field, but I thought a good deal of universal laws broke down once one entered the field of quantum mechanics? I mean, the wikipedia article suggests this is known physics, just known quantum physics. Can anyone more qualified clarify? I'm out of my league here.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
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07/31/2014 03:39 PM
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Pft, they don't know shit about anything.


The truth would turn their brains to mush.


They cannot handle it. They'd go full retard.
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
It sounds pretty low thrust, maybe enough to position satellites but not enough thrust to move light years in seconds, so no warp drive.

They can do the same thing with solar radiation and solar sails.

.
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
They need to test it in a total vacuum.
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
bump
I came. I saw. I Concorde.

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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
A practical, non nuclear, non-chemical, propulsion system for space? Finally we reach the 21st Century!

This could allow for real exploration & colonization of the Sol system.
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Anomalous Thrust Production from an RF Test Device Measured on a Low-Thrust Torsion Pendulum
 Quoting: Setheory


:bertbook:
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Is this a game changer for satellites and space travel?

[link to www.wired.co.uk]

"Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma."
 Quoting: Setheory


Will wonders never cease.
The Chinese INVENTED something....rather than STEAL IT like they always do.

Whoda' thought. rolleyes
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


Well actually, the inventor is British.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


OK....so the Chinese are par for the course then.
Figures.
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
It sounds pretty low thrust, maybe enough to position satellites but not enough thrust to move light years in seconds, so no warp drive.

They can do the same thing with solar radiation and solar sails.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60906342


I say this with the caveat and qualifier that this is all still very much theoretical and very possibly spurious, but if true the claim is that second generation thrusters would be capable of much higher thrust levels, on the order of 0.5m/s^2. No, we're not talking a star trek warp drive, but it would revolutionize how we move about in space nevertheless.
[link to www.emdrive.com]
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
They need to test it in a total vacuum.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60510409

mccoy
Agreed.
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
Badass stuff, OP.

I love how humanity's definition of what is possible is changing so quickly - and that I have been lucky enough to witness so many innovations and advancements in my lifetime.

(I mean, can you even begin to imagine being born in like 1910 and living to 2010? The changes in "possible" that you would have seen take place over your lifetime? It was a crazy century, and this one could be even more incredible...)

I love this.

And the idea that what we believe to be physical 'laws' may only be laws until they're broken by the next technological advancement is pretty cool, too.
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Re: NASA validates "WTF - Impossible" space drive. Interesting...UPDATED - 8/14/2017
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