Joseph and Judah the birthright and the sceptre

Good discussion. WE ALL have "a ways to go". I believe actually, that the conversation doesn't really get deep until conversations like this one are more mainstream. I wish I had time to participate in this discussion this morning.

I agree...come back sometime when you have more time...I'm at work also so my time is limited right now

Zionism vs Christianity: Which edifies God the Father? If we want to please God what is required of us? First we must believe in God and His promises. As a christian we believe God promised us a redeemer, Christ is the only person that fills that promise. The Prophets described the Messiah and His purpose for the ages, what do you believe? Do you believe that Christ is King of Kings and High Priest? If He is, do you not recoginse His power and authority. Does He not return to establish His Kingdom, His rule and how we should worship Him. Most christians today lack the faith to believe Christ and His word. The adversary likes to give you a counterfeit before God moves on your behalf. Christianity struggles between flesh and spirit. We build churches and institutions to glorify God. God wanted to be among his people and was for forty years. He provided shelter, food and a marriage contract and they rejected it from the beginning. God still loves them and does not break his promise. David comes along and wants to build a temple (a box) for His God. God loves David and allows the establishment Temple worship. Once again the desires of the flesh turn to corruption. How many times does it take for God destroy fleshly works to get one attention. At Christ return He intends to seperate that is flesh and spirit. Does your desire or action result in the love of God and His righteousness, kindness, mercy and justice for all?

How many people are playing that piano...the piano bench seats one...lol

As you mentioned there is hierarchy and there has to be one at the top of the hierarchy..in the kingship there is none higher than David the king but in the priesthood there is none higher than Joseph the first-born birthright holder..1chronicles 5:2....is David also the corporation of all the people or a single person...?



Last Edited by waterman on 08/09/2016 01:10 PM

I read Zachariah 11 like you said about the beauty and the bond. I really didn't get much out of it except that it sounded like Jerusalem would be destroyed. Parts of the Old Testament are very cryptic.

If Ben David is the king wouldn't he also have to have the highest priesthood as well? Seems like logically he must. By the way the messiah has arrived on glp he is posting under the name "The Messiah".

In a united Israel ezekiel and Jeremiah tell us there is levitic priesthood and davidic kingship...the King can't be over the priesthood or it becomes melchelzedek order priesthood...King uzziah tried to run the priesthood in 2chronicles 26 and died with leprosy...the King can't run the priesthood in a levitic priesthood which will be in effect during the millennium according to Jeremiah and ezekiel

I think it will be a Melchizedek order priesthood. Admittedly I am Mormon and that's what Mormons claim to have. I had no idea the millennial priesthood was mentioned in Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

It is and it's levitic not melchelzedek

In a united Israel ezekiel and Jeremiah tell us there is levitic priesthood and davidic kingship...the King can't be over the priesthood or it becomes melchelzedek order priesthood...King uzziah tried to run the priesthood in 2chronicles 26 and died with leprosy...the King can't run the priesthood in a levitic priesthood which will be in effect during the millennium according to Jeremiah and ezekiel




Divine right of Kings Christ has full authority granted by the Father. Failure to recognize this is your loss and lack of faith. Why diminish Christ power and Glory. Does he not have the knowledge and the wisdom to do both. He laid down His life to obtain this rulership

And he does rule from heaven with the greater melchekzedek Priesthood and Kingship...but promises and covenants are still yet to be fullfiled on earth and we serve a covenant God



Last Edited by waterman on 08/09/2016 03:11 PM

Faith is believing that is what one cannot see. God's covenant can not be broken. We stand in the way when we act to force our Fathers hand. Like recreating the Priest hood before its time. We are trying to steal Christ's Glory and
He so jealous of His title that He will let you destroy yourself. His return is has been plan since the beginning. Players are set and He will demonstrate to all who is and has always been in controll

east is south
two main lands/continents with a harmless/holy land between them...

Follow scripture my friend, and not every made-up story you read. Joseph doesn't die at the Gates of Jerusalem. Joseph knows he holds many titles and he does hold the preeminent position just as Enoch does. Just as it is foretold in scripture and throughout other dialogues. Joseph alone FIRST sees himself before all others thru revelations and confirmations. It is not something he summarizes or imagined or otherwise guesses at. He was hid from all others even from himself until it was revealed to him and confirmed many times by many witnesses both in fleshly and spiritual forms/entities. He does not boast of his many names and titles (surnamed thee) [Isa.45:4kjv,] but he instead is dismayed [Isa.41:10kjv,] that he was/is the one chosen.

I must leave you over there by yourself my friend. You have denied what is yet hidden from you, and failed to believe the words of many and also the truths I sought to teach you. I feel sorry that you cannot see, but destiny is not in my hands my friend. What must be must be. Yet, I hope you at least heed the warning of your sibling's vision of your far spiritual future, that should tell you your true future position and mine! Yet, all things are possible with God. Perhaps that is why at least an abode still remained with your name written upon it..if repentance is in your future.

I am glad you figured out those yours, don't forget there is that word you'll also..lol. I only wish you would figure out the deeper things needful for you to understand, and put away these foolish beliefs of your own deceptions. Only the enemy could cause one to believe a non- confirmation of a belief as you do.

I give you red karma b/c I cannot in good conscious reward a false teaching. Nevertheless, this doesn't reflect my genuine concern for you, your beliefs, and your future outcome.

God Bless.

You cut that down about 800 words and you"ll be able to put it on a birthday card for me...lol

I'm just teasin...good to hear from ya again....and as always thanks for the post

This s a good thread. I will add a comment and see where it goes :) The Levitical priests are already being trained publically, the temple construction is set to begin soon, Yehuda Glick and other Knesset members and rabbi's as well as the Sanhedrin have already met with Turkish religious leader Adnon Oktar (who has met with all the leaders of the Mason's of the world). The stated goal is that all the other religions will submit to Islam and Islam will rule all the others. You can find all of that is true by simply using Google and Youtube.

I'm curious though, how do you reconcile Hebrews' discourse on the priesthood of the melektzadik? We know that tzadik reigned before the Levitical. For example chapter 8, "Now here is the main point being said. We do have such a Kohen Gadol, (High Priest)". So clearly the tzadik is above/ better than the Levitical. Also there is a clear mention of a new mediator of a better covenant as well.

And then there are views also that the temple is where G-d meets with His people, and also that we are His temple. We sacrifice our animal instincts on the altar of our heart (the holy of holies). And also the question of this really being only the 3rd temple and if the antonian fortress that we see in Jerusalem today- is that really the remains of the "second" temple that Yeshua/ Yashka prophesied "not a stone" would remain?

I mean really, this could be a REALLY deep conversation if all parties were willing to humble themselves and learn from each other and what everyone brings to the table. All of us have blinders, and our eyes are not opened up to all the same things at the same time.

If we embrace our confirmation bias, we can overcome it (we all have it). That's my thoughts on jumping in to the conversation. Shalom.

Last Edited by Sabbath Keeper on 08/09/2016 05:23 PM

As you know David is the king in the millennium and can come from no other line than Judah...which is the firstborn line

David being from the line of judah is the chief leader(civil leader) of 1 chronicles 5:2.....but notice he hasn't the firstborn birthright as that is the one from the line of Joseph which is the 2nd born.......so being David is from the line of Judah he won't be able to see the Joseph who holds the firstborn birthright because none of Josephs brothers will be able to see him before he sees them....but Joseph will be able to see david/Judah...if you have a kingship and ezekiel and jeremiah tell us there is a levitic priesthood....it will be the one with the firstborn birthright who will be in charge of it and David doesn't have the firstborn birthright...Joseph does






If I cut that down 800 words and put it on a birthday card for ya it would just say.......1 Chronicles 5:2

King James 2000 Bible
For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and from him came the prince; but the birthright was Joseph's:)








Isaiah 45:4:

King James Bible
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.


As for the surnaming...there are two who are surnamed..let me detail it for ya..lol

Isaiah 44:5

“One shall say, I am the LORD'S; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel.”



One shall say I am the LORD"S...that is firstborn Israel/Judah.....then it go on to say.."ANOTHER" which is not firstborn Israel/Judah but it is 2nd born Jacob/Israel...then it goes back to firstborn Judah/Israel

conclusion:

Jacob the 2nd born with firstborn birthright sees that the firstborn Israel is being surnamed...and realizes he as 2nd born with firstborn birthright is also surnamed...Judah/Israel is the firstborns...civil leaders...and Jacob/Israel is the birthright holder and priestly....how did he do it?....He grabbed the heel of the firstborn because he knew who the firstborn was:





The mistake you make is you think the story of Jacob is the story of the firstborn Judah/Israel and it is really the story of the 2nd born with firstborn birthright Jacob/Israel..thats why Isaiah servant chapters keep referring to Jacob(2nd born with birthright) and Israel(firstborn) instead of just saying Israel throughout the chapters..so you know who is who

Last Edited by waterman on 08/09/2016 05:53 PM

oy vey waterman.
the piano bench seats one?
a christian who doesnt know what a parable is...

I know what a parable is but I also know what hierarchy is and Joseph has the firstborn birthright..1 chronicles 5:2..lol

and it has been concluded in that that Joseph received a double portion - Ephraim and Manasseh.

but the priesthood including the position of the high priest belongs to the line of Aaron.

you have yet to show how they were dispossessed of it

again levites were put in place as a "substitute" for the firstborn birthright holder......when Joseph who holds the postion of firsborn birthright holder arrives...I'm sure he will say..."thanks for holding it till I arrived friends"...lol...because in a united Israel all the tribes will know king david has the kingship and Joseph holds the firstborn birthright

the levites substitute the first born of every Israelite family whether its Judean family Mannashite family or Dannite family.
so you dont make sense.

now... can you show me a verse that shows the line of Aaron has been dispossessed of its role as priests and high priests?

Just as Joseph will hold the firstborn birthright of every Israelite family...why have a substitute when you can have the real thing...lol

where is that written?
and how can he do that if we know the priests in the third temple will be from the line of Zadok?

substitution denotes a temporary position.
but Hebrew is not english.

again, where is the verse that show the Aaronic line has been dispossessed?

How would you identify who is a descendent of Aaron? I don't for a second believe you have the records that stretch back 4,000 years to do this.

if you dont believe... that is your problem.
you need to familiarize yourself with how Jewish marriage works.
the Rabbis keep the records of every marriage, to cover such cases, to make sure a divorcee can not marry a priest, to make sure a Jew marries a Jew.
to make sure that incase one is a priest, his father is also a priest... the Rabbis have been doing this all through out our diaspora.

research the Aaron Y chromosome.

also it says somewhere in Ezekiel that the Messiah would be responsible for establishing the identities of the priesthood.
and it would be done together with the help of the prophet Elijah who is to return according to Malachi.

Zionism was born out of political reasons. Jews in Europe were a hated group. They were run out of different parts of Europe for a variety of reasons. It took a foothold in England under the Balfour Agreement. When Gen Allenby free Jerusalem without firing a shot wheels were already in motion for a homeland. If you believe that a religious group
trumps the rights of racially appoint group you win the argument. The current group occupying Jerusalem are of the Kahzar gene pool. This makes them a counterfeit. They would rule over you harshly. If you don't comply with the law you will be destroyed. These people want power to rule over the entire world. Think about other nations that used religion to control money and power for ill will. I weep that people think that animal sacrifice and a handful of men should rule over God's people. I am not willingly give up my Birthright to such people. Always be wary of people who tell you they are chosen but their fruits do not edify God the Father. You are supporting tyranny not love grace or beauty.

Perhaps you"re not from the line of zaddok..perhaps you are more from the line of Abiathar..not all levites will serve in the temple and if you aren't satisfied with a firstborn birthright holder being high priest that is your choice and perhaps you can be a farmer or something more to your suiting...lol

I am definitely not a Zaddok, I am not a Levite.

I am happy that you thread has no more merit.
the line of Aaron has not be dispossessed.

continue teaching christians about the third temple sacrifices seperation of kingship and priesthood.

G-d bless.

It's good to be happy but it's better to be joyful...right sword-like

You don't have 4,000 years of records to prove this. You know it, I know it and everyone else knows it too. It's the same issue with the Israelis claiming they are all decended from Judah and therefore some kind of special race. These records were in fact destroyed when the second temple was demolished by the Romans.

And yes I do believe, it's just that you're full of it.