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Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 05:19 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Thank you OP for that well thought out info.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 05:19 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What is the possibility that the Chikungunya virus which presents similar symptoms could confuse the medical system to the point of paralysis. Cases are increasing in the U.S. as the Ebola spreads in Africa. In fact many viruses have similar symptoms so confusion seems inevitable. The headache, fever and joint pain are common symptoms and sorting through who has what seems like a near impossible task.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 05:21 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What has had me interested is that fact this has made the leap from forested to urban environment and is currently running outside of season.. Like the plague has a season you normally find ebola outbreaks within it's seasons (most typically dry conditions at the end of rainy season) with it seemingly breaking out of these known constraints the question is does it have the legs for further adaptations. I really hope not, but it worth noting each time it breaks free of known constraints..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61272265


Maybe it had help
HoodRats

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08/06/2014 05:23 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Crazy to me, all the doomtards sit around waiting for and creating entirely bullshit scenarios...and when a real one presents itself, they say it'll never happen.

Thanks OP
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 05:25 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
FEAR PORN!!!!
Vaccines have never been proven. There is NO safe vaccine, and polio was eradicated when we quit using DDT in the pastures. DDT was getting into the cows milk and harming kids.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 05:26 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
If there was a major outbreak people wouldnt get to the hospital and thee wouldnt be any need to do lab tests.
It would be assumed everyone had it and would be required to stay indoors.
There would be a military curfew,anyone showing any of the symptoms would be assumed to have ebola and treated as such regardless.
There wouldnt be any lab tests,it would be undoable and pointless.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60978912


With an incubation period this long no one would even know that the outbreak started. Thats why I'm saying initially it would be extremely difficult to know there is an outbreak, let alone contain it.

Look, this entire ebola outbreak could be bullshit, all of it.

But the sheer lack of ability for any western healthcare system to contain an outbreak is not bullshit. Viruses literally evolve to use our own immune responses to multiply, if it gets to a place where immuno compromised people are already struggling, it's like a buffet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


Maybe someone engineered it to have a longer incubation time in order to cause it to spread outside just regional areas.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 05:26 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
All,

I have a practical request.

Can you get a virologist, microbiologist, chemist or health care worker to get the correct dilution rate for standard household clorox? That is, a safe amount to ensure that the viral particles have been broken up?

E.g., The Clorox Company switched to selling its concentrated liquid version. The bottle states it's 8.25% sodium hypochlorite. For hostpital disinfection, it states 1/2 cup per gallon.

I assume most folks will have plastic gallon milk jugs, so using gallons as a standard calculation is preferred.

Should I go with 1/2 cup per gallon?
Corn Dog

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08/06/2014 05:27 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Do you really think that if there was an Ebola outbreak that hospital will simply let someone with a fever and other such symptoms wait in the emergency room, and then wait for lab results to come back from the other side of the country?

I don't think so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60249311


You miss the point. The moment they enter the emergency room (well, actually the moment they start travelling to the emergency room), they will be infecting people. Sure, the hospital may isolate them - but it can't isolate them until they arrive and are seen to have symptoms. Even then, if it is busy - which ERs usually are - it won't happen immediately. And if there are many people turning up with symptoms, just where do you think they will put them?

Seriously, comments like yours, with all due respect, just show how people are not thinking about the realities.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 53990064


Actually during the flu season hospitals set up tents outside and people with the flu symptoms go to the tent. This is what I would think would happen. The hospital would try to keep them separate.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/06/2014 05:27 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What is the possibility that the Chikungunya virus which presents similar symptoms could confuse the medical system to the point of paralysis. Cases are increasing in the U.S. as the Ebola spreads in Africa. In fact many viruses have similar symptoms so confusion seems inevitable. The headache, fever and joint pain are common symptoms and sorting through who has what seems like a near impossible task.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60532823


Again, good point. This is what I eluded in the op when I stated that a patient presenting with a headache, fever, sore throat etc. Would not cue anyone off. That literally could be anything. A cold? The flu? If someone came in with respiratory distress and sweating profusely you could easily make a case for a heart attack.

The point is, the early symptoms are so non specific it would be hard to tell what the patient is dealing with. And Viral infections never present exactly the same with everyone. You could have a fever, but no headache, you could have a rash, but no sore throat etc.

So yes you are absolutely correct, it would be very confusing for medical staff.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 05:34 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What is the possibility that the Chikungunya virus which presents similar symptoms could confuse the medical system to the point of paralysis. Cases are increasing in the U.S. as the Ebola spreads in Africa. In fact many viruses have similar symptoms so confusion seems inevitable. The headache, fever and joint pain are common symptoms and sorting through who has what seems like a near impossible task.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60532823


Again, good point. This is what I eluded in the op when I stated that a patient presenting with a headache, fever, sore throat etc. Would not cue anyone off. That literally could be anything. A cold? The flu? If someone came in with respiratory distress and sweating profusely you could easily make a case for a heart attack.

The point is, the early symptoms are so non specific it would be hard to tell what the patient is dealing with. And Viral infections never present exactly the same with everyone. You could have a fever, but no headache, you could have a rash, but no sore throat etc.

So yes you are absolutely correct, it would be very confusing for medical staff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


And guess what season is right around corner with winter.
Might be time for you and wife get out of lab field.
I bet you have no neg flow room for even processing samples much less testing if the came out with kit test. No hood you got will be enough. Any aerosal and whole lab staff done
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 05:36 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Well said and thought out.
 Quoting: 18328


^
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/06/2014 05:38 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What is the possibility that the Chikungunya virus which presents similar symptoms could confuse the medical system to the point of paralysis. Cases are increasing in the U.S. as the Ebola spreads in Africa. In fact many viruses have similar symptoms so confusion seems inevitable. The headache, fever and joint pain are common symptoms and sorting through who has what seems like a near impossible task.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60532823


Again, good point. This is what I eluded in the op when I stated that a patient presenting with a headache, fever, sore throat etc. Would not cue anyone off. That literally could be anything. A cold? The flu? If someone came in with respiratory distress and sweating profusely you could easily make a case for a heart attack.

The point is, the early symptoms are so non specific it would be hard to tell what the patient is dealing with. And Viral infections never present exactly the same with everyone. You could have a fever, but no headache, you could have a rash, but no sore throat etc.

So yes you are absolutely correct, it would be very confusing for medical staff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


And guess what season is right around corner with winter.
Might be time for you and wife get out of lab field.
I bet you have no neg flow room for even processing samples much less testing if the came out with kit test. No hood you got will be enough. Any aerosal and whole lab staff done
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18176399


Yes you are correct. Our hood is a room that is not a negative flow room. Half the time I think the hood is just to keep the smell from body fluids and abscesses bearable.
jpop

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08/06/2014 05:40 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I agree with everything you wrote except:


#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

The mortality rate hasn't gone down.
Some of the most extreme cases had a 100% mortality rate, but that is because they were the first cases and nobody knew anything about the virus.

The other 5 outbreaks were in the low 80% range
.
6 out 14 cases of Zaire Ebola had the same mortality rate or lower than the current outbreak which is between 60%-75%

2008 Democratic Republic of Congo 44%, 2007 71%
2001-2002 Congo 75%
1996 Gabon 75%, again in 1996 68%, 1997 60%
 Quoting: jpop


So in effect the virus is just as virulent, but has a much longer incubation period in which to spread and may be more contagious than we're being told.


Our only hope is that it doesn't cause an outbreak in the US.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 05:42 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What is the possibility that the Chikungunya virus which presents similar symptoms could confuse the medical system to the point of paralysis. Cases are increasing in the U.S. as the Ebola spreads in Africa. In fact many viruses have similar symptoms so confusion seems inevitable. The headache, fever and joint pain are common symptoms and sorting through who has what seems like a near impossible task.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60532823


Again, good point. This is what I eluded in the op when I stated that a patient presenting with a headache, fever, sore throat etc. Would not cue anyone off. That literally could be anything. A cold? The flu? If someone came in with respiratory distress and sweating profusely you could easily make a case for a heart attack.

The point is, the early symptoms are so non specific it would be hard to tell what the patient is dealing with. And Viral infections never present exactly the same with everyone. You could have a fever, but no headache, you could have a rash, but no sore throat etc.

So yes you are absolutely correct, it would be very confusing for medical staff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


And what if Ebola has or is merged with Chikungunya, Dengue, or the many of others making its spreading capabilities epic, is this possible?
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 05:43 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What is the possibility that the Chikungunya virus which presents similar symptoms could confuse the medical system to the point of paralysis. Cases are increasing in the U.S. as the Ebola spreads in Africa. In fact many viruses have similar symptoms so confusion seems inevitable. The headache, fever and joint pain are common symptoms and sorting through who has what seems like a near impossible task.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60532823


Holy effing carp.

This post made my pucker factor rise ten fold.

First, that cases ARE increasing and its a new virus here.

Second, that it could easily confuse the entire situation and either add to the confusion or add to the panic.
Abi ~

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08/06/2014 05:49 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
:greathread: Very informative ..anyone who has worked in the healthcare industry knows that what you said is the truth.
You accept the love you think you deserve~~~

Love cannot live where there is no trust~~~

Truth has no temperature~~~

Love like it's never gonna hurt~~~

Have no regrets~~~
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 05:51 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
The mortality rate is 'catching up'. The numbers are starting to indicate a rate of around 70%, in Africa.
That in no way means the death rate of Ebola infection in the West would be that high.

I am extremely respectful of any lethal pathogen. One thing OP stated I agree with - before anyone noticed "Ebola" there would be a steady stream of "FUO" - Fever of unknown origin.
If you have 20 patients in ED waiting room all with temp of 101+, they are going to sit for some time.. traumas still come, heart attacks still come, you have triage priorities.
Fever, flu like symptoms isn't high on that list.
jpop

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08/06/2014 05:58 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
The mortality rate is 'catching up'. The numbers are starting to indicate a rate of around 70%, in Africa.
That in no way means the death rate of Ebola infection in the West would be that high.

I am extremely respectful of any lethal pathogen. One thing OP stated I agree with - before anyone noticed "Ebola" there would be a steady stream of "FUO" - Fever of unknown origin.
If you have 20 patients in ED waiting room all with temp of 101+, they are going to sit for some time.. traumas still come, heart attacks still come, you have triage priorities.
Fever, flu like symptoms isn't high on that list.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58491096


I put the stats for all Zaire Ebola mortality rates on this thread.

The rates are about the same as other outbreaks of Zaire Ebola, so they did not go down.
Theobromine

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08/06/2014 06:00 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
My fear is that in our efforts to help our patients, if an outbreak occurred here, our efforts, which are all based loosely on triage, would not only fall short, but actually cause it spread.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601


How?

vodka5
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61056835

Because ignorant people would be running to the hospital for every little thing even MORE instead of staying home and keeping their germs to them self.

OP, I use our sauna whenever I feel a cold or flu coming on and it is better by the next day. It works like an artificial fever to break down viruses.
Do you think other viruses would be susceptible and even EBOLA if you immediately spiked your temperature for half an hour?

Last Edited by Theobromine The Deplorable on 08/06/2014 06:02 PM
"What are you helping with all this helping?" Buddhist saying
Kit MacReady

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08/06/2014 06:01 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I have one question that I haven't seen answered anywhere.

Suppose one gets Ebola and is treated successfully.

Is that person then immune to Ebola, or can one simply be released from the hospital only to catch it again when arriving at home?
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 06:01 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
All,

I have a practical request.

Can you get a virologist, microbiologist, chemist or health care worker to get the correct dilution rate for standard household clorox? That is, a safe amount to ensure that the viral particles have been broken up?

E.g., The Clorox Company switched to selling its concentrated liquid version. The bottle states it's 8.25% sodium hypochlorite. For hostpital disinfection, it states 1/2 cup per gallon.

I assume most folks will have plastic gallon milk jugs, so using gallons as a standard calculation is preferred.

Should I go with 1/2 cup per gallon?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45799893


I was wondering about this as well- all the Clorox available now that I see is concentrated. I have to look again, but doesn't it say how concentrated it is? You can work off the concentration level and compare to old formula?
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 06:02 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I have one question that I haven't seen answered anywhere.

Suppose one gets Ebola and is treated successfully.

Is that person then immune to Ebola, or can one simply be released from the hospital only to catch it again when arriving at home?
 Quoting: Kit MacReady


I just read that if you survive it, your antibodies don't protect you from being infected again. I can provide the link, if you'd like to read it yourself.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 06:03 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I don't think you people get it... What is the death rate for the normal flu that killed 36,000 last year? I'm certain it's not anywhere near Ebola's kill rate. I'm not even going to look it up because it's not even close.

If Ebola can transmit itself as easily as the common flu, then what? You also need to understand how bacteria grows. If there is not much of it takes a long time to get going. Once it gets larger and more of it the faster it grows. This is kindergarten shit.

It takes time, but then the exponential kicks in.

ebola will do nothing.
 Quoting: T-Man


^^^^^this^^^^^
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44550379


So, the people that have already died just imagined ebola killed them?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8547422


Of course not. It's real just like the 36,000 that died in the USA last year of the flu. Am I going to panic and freak out like all the doomsters on these threads? Absolutely not.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44550379
Kit MacReady

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08/06/2014 06:03 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I have one question that I haven't seen answered anywhere.

Suppose one gets Ebola and is treated successfully.

Is that person then immune to Ebola, or can one simply be released from the hospital only to catch it again when arriving at home?
 Quoting: Kit MacReady


I just read that if you survive it, your antibodies don't protect you from being infected again. I can provide the link, if you'd like to read it yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59663952


I'll take your word for it.

If this does break out into a global pandemic, and you're lucky enough to get treated and survive....

..I wouldn't count on being lucky in perpetuity.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 06:04 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Here it is- about antibodies....
"Vaccine. None. As with exposure to other filoviruses, exposure to Ebola does not confer subsequent immunity. The antibody response in convalescent patients does not neutralize or protect against subsequent infection by Ebola virus. Researchers are now studying genetic immunization approaches."

[link to www.tarakharper.com]
Theobromine

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08/06/2014 06:07 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I have one question that I haven't seen answered anywhere.

Suppose one gets Ebola and is treated successfully.

Is that person then immune to Ebola, or can one simply be released from the hospital only to catch it again when arriving at home?
 Quoting: Kit MacReady


I just read that if you survive it, your antibodies don't protect you from being infected again. I can provide the link, if you'd like to read it yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59663952

That's horrible news.

Once you beat it that should be it if its like chicken pox.
But if its like malaria you can get again and again.
What is happening in Africa are people getting it after healthy for a period of time?
"What are you helping with all this helping?" Buddhist saying
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 06:08 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What is the possibility that the Chikungunya virus which presents similar symptoms could confuse the medical system to the point of paralysis. Cases are increasing in the U.S. as the Ebola spreads in Africa. In fact many viruses have similar symptoms so confusion seems inevitable. The headache, fever and joint pain are common symptoms and sorting through who has what seems like a near impossible task.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60532823


Again, good point. This is what I eluded in the op when I stated that a patient presenting with a headache, fever, sore throat etc. Would not cue anyone off. That literally could be anything. A cold? The flu? If someone came in with respiratory distress and sweating profusely you could easily make a case for a heart attack.

The point is, the early symptoms are so non specific it would be hard to tell what the patient is dealing with. And Viral infections never present exactly the same with everyone. You could have a fever, but no headache, you could have a rash, but no sore throat etc.

So yes you are absolutely correct, it would be very confusing for medical staff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


And what if Ebola has or is merged with Chikungunya, Dengue, or the many of others making its spreading capabilities epic, is this possible?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40286933


Is this possible since it is in a new mutation?

Is this a stupid question?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/06/2014 06:11 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I guess I have to laugh at those throwing the BS flag up on this.

This thread is about standard ER triage and hospital containment procedures, and how it relates in the event of a serious outbreak.

Could a hospital handle a Mass Cal? Sure.
Can it handle flu season? Yep.

People calling BS on standard hospital Triage methods just simply don't understand anything about modern medicine.

So before you call BS, please understand that I'm not saying an outbreak in the west is imminent. All I'm saying is that should the unthinkable happen, the system itself as it currently stands would be a hindrance to the containment of the virus. Anyone that works in healthcare already knows this.

All I have done is state the obvious. And that is not bullshit, not even close.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 06:12 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601


Polio was a harmless childhood illness before kids stopped getting it a young age.

I wonder if the polio virus, developing as it has along with humanity, did not serve some important function in the human gut...
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 06:12 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Now we know what the FEMA camps are for...not for civil uprising, but for quarantine.





GLP