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Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.

 
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
The simple fact is that if there is an outbreak of pandemic lethality, the hospital is where you go to die.

I would avoid hospitals like... the plague.
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I guess I have to laugh at those throwing the BS flag up on this.

This thread is about standard ER triage and hospital containment procedures, and how it relates in the event of a serious outbreak.

Could a hospital handle a Mass Cal? Sure.
Can it handle flu season? Yep.

People calling BS on standard hospital Triage methods just simply don't understand anything about modern medicine.

So before you call BS, please understand that I'm not saying an outbreak in the west is imminent. All I'm saying is that should the unthinkable happen, the system itself as it currently stands would be a hindrance to the containment of the virus. Anyone that works in healthcare already knows this.

All I have done is state the obvious. And that is not bullshit, not even close.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


It doesn't matter if your thread told them gravity was keeping their ass on the ground, you would still get the B.S flag. Tards are gonna tard. Ignore em. Most of us appreciate the info
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08/06/2014 06:13 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Don't worry about the trolls/shills, OP…


They are merely situating their sludge crusted cheeks amidst their adult diapers, ready to projectile vomit in fear.
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08/06/2014 06:16 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
ebola will do nothing.
 Quoting: T-Man


^^^^^this^^^^^
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44550379


^^^^Not this^^^^
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08/06/2014 06:21 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Thread: Real-time Test Kit for Ebola. 100 tests for 600 Euro.
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I'm a doctor, and I have spent time in the field studying tropical medicine all over the world, including Africa, South America, and Asia. OP is spot on. While this may all be media hype, if ebola is spreading worldwide and has shifted its focus from mortality to morbidity, something has definitely changed and it has "found a way" to remain viable. Our healthcare system is not equipped for anything like this.
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08/06/2014 06:23 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
The simple fact is that if there is an outbreak of pandemic lethality, the hospital is where you go to die.

I would avoid hospitals like... the plague.
 Quoting: Apocalypse Troll


This is very wise. At the height of the flu season I had a sick child- not the flu. The doctor refused to meet us in the parking lot because I refused to bring the child into a dirty waiting room and doctors office. So we went herbal.
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
The Black Death arises again!



dead2
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.
===========================================

They can rarely tell you much of anything unless it's something common. flu/strep things of that nature..

Had to be in a lot of different hospital settings last two years or so..it's appalling the new level of low that has been reached.. first off you're taking a risk much higher than ever told going in those places to have tests done . they're infected more than will ever be admitted to with MRSA countless people..family member got it from having a bone marrow test done,test came back fine, but had to fight for life from the infection they gave them at the hospital, the doctors (two) admitted it came from the test they did, but they won't report giving people this terrible illness because if they do the cdc has to notify, also causes marks against the hospital if they have to many they could be closed. Unless the victim knows these things, they never think to report them...We didn't even bother with it, what's the point?
What could prevent them from giving people this nasty thing? Just a little bit of Clorox/bleach.. and them properly cleaning the rooms and utensils used.. They put one of my relatives in a room where there was still blood on the floor and over/under the railings of the bed..

Then there's this: you always hear about giving blood how important that is to save a life, all that's true.. but i can't figure out what in the world they do with all this collected blood.. there were times when we would have to wait over two days to get the much needed blood..one time they couldn't get the match an had to give plasma instead.. made me realize if something major were to ever happen, the blood supply would be out in a matter of hours..

so while all that's goes on everyday, normal day to day things..

know a group of people that went to many parts of the Europe this summer... the group they were with all (pretty much) got very sick.. with flu like symptoms only no one can tell them what they had!!! They were all from different part of this country and the world..

It's not Ebola, they didn't go to Africa but fact is it crossed my mind more than once! Weird thing was they could not really diagnose any of them.. they're treating it as some bacteria infection.. and they seem to be responding /but all tests done came back with nothing.. <<<< there's the problem..

One in the group did manage to contract mrsa/ had a wreck on one of those scooter things.
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Great thread OP. I've been watching the ebola outbreak for months. I was just about to remove it from my feeds thinking it had gone stale when the recent headlines hit. Needless to say It's got me on the edge of my seat.

I think we're playing a waiting game at this point. I believe it's already here. (aside from our two star patients) Whether or not it gets a foothold remains to be seen.
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
whateverbsflag
 Quoting: Vaellene


GLP would be much better if members like you were quickly identified as terminally retarded and banned immediately.
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08/06/2014 06:33 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601



I don't fear because we all have Obamacare! Once more the Congress can overrule any natural biological condition or event. Just look what they did with Gay Marriage! And the Supreme Court will hold up the ruling!!

With Obamacare and the court system, we can defeat biology!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24470209


epiclol
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times." Bruce Lee
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
5 stars OP
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Here it is- about antibodies....
"Vaccine. None. As with exposure to other filoviruses, exposure to Ebola does not confer subsequent immunity. The antibody response in convalescent patients does not neutralize or protect against subsequent infection by Ebola virus. Researchers are now studying genetic immunization approaches."

[link to www.tarakharper.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59663952


With that in mind, could we say that Ebola has the potential to kill off 100% of humanity?
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08/06/2014 06:39 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
ebola will do nothing.
 Quoting: T-Man


It would seem that since it already HAS done something, that your statement is a load of bullcrap, no?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/06/2014 06:52 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What is the possibility that the Chikungunya virus which presents similar symptoms could confuse the medical system to the point of paralysis. Cases are increasing in the U.S. as the Ebola spreads in Africa. In fact many viruses have similar symptoms so confusion seems inevitable. The headache, fever and joint pain are common symptoms and sorting through who has what seems like a near impossible task.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60532823


Again, good point. This is what I eluded in the op when I stated that a patient presenting with a headache, fever, sore throat etc. Would not cue anyone off. That literally could be anything. A cold? The flu? If someone came in with respiratory distress and sweating profusely you could easily make a case for a heart attack.

The point is, the early symptoms are so non specific it would be hard to tell what the patient is dealing with. And Viral infections never present exactly the same with everyone. You could have a fever, but no headache, you could have a rash, but no sore throat etc.

So yes you are absolutely correct, it would be very confusing for medical staff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


And what if Ebola has or is merged with Chikungunya, Dengue, or the many of others making its spreading capabilities epic, is this possible?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40286933


I'm honestly not sure. Viruses typically don't attack each other. Maybe a better way to ask is could two viruses exchange information? An example would be exchanging proteins or something like that. Which I suppose would be possible provided the other virus had already run it's course and shed some of it's "information" in the body. I'm definitely not a virologist, and my understanding compared to them is beyond basic.

Th scenario above seems plausible in theory I suppose, but I would not take it to heart. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I could shed a little more light.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 06:53 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Read the books THE HOT ZONE...and THE COBRA EVENT.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What is the possibility that the Chikungunya virus which presents similar symptoms could confuse the medical system to the point of paralysis. Cases are increasing in the U.S. as the Ebola spreads in Africa. In fact many viruses have similar symptoms so confusion seems inevitable. The headache, fever and joint pain are common symptoms and sorting through who has what seems like a near impossible task.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60532823


Again, good point. This is what I eluded in the op when I stated that a patient presenting with a headache, fever, sore throat etc. Would not cue anyone off. That literally could be anything. A cold? The flu? If someone came in with respiratory distress and sweating profusely you could easily make a case for a heart attack.

The point is, the early symptoms are so non specific it would be hard to tell what the patient is dealing with. And Viral infections never present exactly the same with everyone. You could have a fever, but no headache, you could have a rash, but no sore throat etc.

So yes you are absolutely correct, it would be very confusing for medical staff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


And what if Ebola has or is merged with Chikungunya, Dengue, or the many of others making its spreading capabilities epic, is this possible?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40286933


I'm honestly not sure. Viruses typically don't attack each other. Maybe a better way to ask is could two viruses exchange information? An example would be exchanging proteins or something like that. Which I suppose would be possible provided the other virus had already run it's course and shed some of it's "information" in the body. I'm definitely not a virologist, and my understanding compared to them is beyond basic.

Th scenario above seems plausible in theory I suppose, but I would not take it to heart. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I could shed a little more light.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


Thank you
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Great thread OP. I've been watching the ebola outbreak for months. I was just about to remove it from my feeds thinking it had gone stale when the recent headlines hit. Needless to say It's got me on the edge of my seat.

I think we're playing a waiting game at this point. I believe it's already here. (aside from our two star patients) Whether or not it gets a foothold remains to be seen.
 Quoting: Grindylows


My opinion as well. Although if th incubation period is real, then we'll all find out about it in a few weeks.
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I am going grocery shopping pre-Ebola outbreak. Got to stockup
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
:bs f lag:

:bs meter2:

:st fu:
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61263169


Anonymous Coward is so fitting a title for you.
Diomede

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08/06/2014 07:05 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone,
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601


zombies
FistOfFreedom

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08/06/2014 07:14 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I guess I have to laugh at those throwing the BS flag up on this.

This thread is about standard ER triage and hospital containment procedures, and how it relates in the event of a serious outbreak.

Could a hospital handle a Mass Cal? Sure.
Can it handle flu season? Yep.

People calling BS on standard hospital Triage methods just simply don't understand anything about modern medicine.

So before you call BS, please understand that I'm not saying an outbreak in the west is imminent. All I'm saying is that should the unthinkable happen, the system itself as it currently stands would be a hindrance to the containment of the virus. Anyone that works in healthcare already knows this.

All I have done is state the obvious. And that is not bullshit, not even close.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61257950


Trollolol

So OP are you preparing and at what point would you consider it out of control to where you start prepping
LouieFine
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08/06/2014 07:17 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
ebola will do nothing.
 Quoting: T-Man


You need to educate yourself about "normalcy bias"

You have a severe case. Good luck. People with such
attitudes tend to be the first victims.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/06/2014 07:18 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I guess I have to laugh at those throwing the BS flag up on this.

This thread is about standard ER triage and hospital containment procedures, and how it relates in the event of a serious outbreak.

Could a hospital handle a Mass Cal? Sure.
Can it handle flu season? Yep.

People calling BS on standard hospital Triage methods just simply don't understand anything about modern medicine.

So before you call BS, please understand that I'm not saying an outbreak in the west is imminent. All I'm saying is that should the unthinkable happen, the system itself as it currently stands would be a hindrance to the containment of the virus. Anyone that works in healthcare already knows this.

All I have done is state the obvious. And that is not bullshit, not even close.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61257950


Trollolol

So OP are you preparing and at what point would you consider it out of control to where you start prepping
 Quoting: FistOfFreedom


Now? The minute you hear that cases are being confirmed in major cities with major airports it's plausible that things are about to get real. I've always prepped. Just because I think it's folly not too. I have a family, if the house burns down, I better have a back up plan after all.
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08/06/2014 07:19 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601

You might want to listen to OP. He is not selling doom here, he is simply stating the facts about our health care system and its limitations. My wife is a Nurse practitioner and has the same assessment of the lack of proper treatment centers for a wide spread viral epidemic. 5 stars OP.
cheers
 Quoting: Dark Shadow


clappa
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08/06/2014 07:20 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I started a new thread on this but thought it also deserved to be in this thread:

---------------------------

There are secondary effects of a bad Ebola event which "could" lead to even more deaths than just the direct deaths (at least for the industrialized world)



COLLAPSE OF THE HIGH TECH MEDICAL SUPPLY CHAIN FOR THOSE WHO NEED IT TO LIVE

About 1 in 20 to 1 in 30 Americans NEED regular High Tech Medical Intervention in order to keep living normal lives. This includes Diabetics, Heart Patients, People with Other Deficencies, Kidney Dialysis, Transplant Patients, Nursing Home Patients, etc..

In other words the risk of an additional 5% die off of people in the US exists "IF" the Ebola situation causes a collapse in our High Tech Medical Supply Chain even if those people do NOT contract Ebola.



FOOD and risk of FAMINE

In days of old, as late as the 1960/70's there were LOTS of farmers who produced our food in the US). Today a small percentage of those numbers now produce our food (at least in the US) and the production process is very high tech. While rural areas may have a MUCH lower infection and death rate, they may not, but if there is a vast reduction in those who know how to farm, OR the support supply chain that allows our FACTORY FARMS to produce, then on the heels of Ebola could come serious famine issues.



NUCLEAR POWER PLANT MELTDOWN RISKS (scariest of all)

A couple of posters have already commented that Nuclear Power Plants require Well Trained People operating them PLUS a continuous supply chain of Electric Power and cooling water in order to avoid a Fukoshima situation ... EVEN WHEN THEY ARE SHUT DOWN!! (cooling pools will overheat and old fuel will melt ... ala Fukushima ... if the ELECTRIC pumps stop and the water cooling them stops flowing through the pools ... a reactor recently shut down REQUIRES WEEKS to cool down! ... also needing a continual supply of cooling water while that is going on). NO Operators or NO Electric Power for Cooling = Nuclear Plant meltdown ala Fukushima! ... A No-Go zone for miles around for maybe a 1000 years or more.
Joe42

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08/06/2014 07:23 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Thanks OP, these are the threads we need. 5 stars.
(aren't you glad this signature isn't rediculously long)
FistOfFreedom

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08/06/2014 07:24 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I guess I have to laugh at those throwing the BS flag up on this.

This thread is about standard ER triage and hospital containment procedures, and how it relates in the event of a serious outbreak.

Could a hospital handle a Mass Cal? Sure.
Can it handle flu season? Yep.

People calling BS on standard hospital Triage methods just simply don't understand anything about modern medicine.

So before you call BS, please understand that I'm not saying an outbreak in the west is imminent. All I'm saying is that should the unthinkable happen, the system itself as it currently stands would be a hindrance to the containment of the virus. Anyone that works in healthcare already knows this.

All I have done is state the obvious. And that is not bullshit, not even close.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61257950


Trollolol

So OP are you preparing and at what point would you consider it out of control to where you start prepping
 Quoting: FistOfFreedom


Now? The minute you hear that cases are being confirmed in major cities with major airports it's plausible that things are about to get real. I've always prepped. Just because I think it's folly not too. I have a family, if the house burns down, I better have a back up plan after all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


Great stuff..

Do you think it's more so a matter of when... not if?
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08/06/2014 07:28 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601



I don't fear because we all have Obamacare! Once more the Congress can overrule any natural biological condition or event. Just look what they did with Gay Marriage! And the Supreme Court will hold up the ruling!!

With Obamacare and the court system, we can defeat biology!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24470209


EVERYTHING BEING DONE is to institute internationalist minority rule of a resource rich majority.
You will be declared undesirable and sent to camps to be worked to death.
Internationalists always do this.
They are thieves and need to thieves.
Slave labour camps are communist inventions, Hitler just copied them some time 20 or so years later.

They will declare any and all opposition null and void and declare it a capital offense.
This is their pattern, minority control of others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51160787


Which is why it does not matter if Ebola is real doom or fake doom. They'll use it to fill up their quarantine centers and then their labor camps. The lucky ones get executed.

Ebola is actually immaterial, but I appreciate the perspective of this thread.





GLP