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Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 07:39 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I started a new thread on this but thought it also deserved to be in this thread:

---------------------------

There are secondary effects of a bad Ebola event which "could" lead to even more deaths than just the direct deaths (at least for the industrialized world)



COLLAPSE OF THE HIGH TECH MEDICAL SUPPLY CHAIN FOR THOSE WHO NEED IT TO LIVE

About 1 in 20 to 1 in 30 Americans NEED regular High Tech Medical Intervention in order to keep living normal lives. This includes Diabetics, Heart Patients, People with Other Deficencies, Kidney Dialysis, Transplant Patients, Nursing Home Patients, etc..

In other words the risk of an additional 5% die off of people in the US exists "IF" the Ebola situation causes a collapse in our High Tech Medical Supply Chain even if those people do NOT contract Ebola.



FOOD and risk of FAMINE

In days of old, as late as the 1960/70's there were LOTS of farmers who produced our food in the US). Today a small percentage of those numbers now produce our food (at least in the US) and the production process is very high tech. While rural areas may have a MUCH lower infection and death rate, they may not, but if there is a vast reduction in those who know how to farm, OR the support supply chain that allows our FACTORY FARMS to produce, then on the heels of Ebola could come serious famine issues.



NUCLEAR POWER PLANT MELTDOWN RISKS (scariest of all)

A couple of posters have already commented that Nuclear Power Plants require Well Trained People operating them PLUS a continuous supply chain of Electric Power and cooling water in order to avoid a Fukoshima situation ... EVEN WHEN THEY ARE SHUT DOWN!! (cooling pools will overheat and old fuel will melt ... ala Fukushima ... if the ELECTRIC pumps stop and the water cooling them stops flowing through the pools ... a reactor recently shut down REQUIRES WEEKS to cool down! ... also needing a continual supply of cooling water while that is going on). NO Operators or NO Electric Power for Cooling = Nuclear Plant meltdown ala Fukushima! ... A No-Go zone for miles around for maybe a 1000 years or more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52154903


A couple of more things to add:

Prisons becoming untenable in terms of continuing to function leading to prisoners breaking out and going wild.

Mental asylums becoming untenable in terms of continuing to function leading to mental patients breaking out and going wild.

And those things happening while simultaneously increasing numbers of law enforcement will be quitting their jobs due to societal breakdown and of course dying as well.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/06/2014 07:41 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
...



bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61257950


Trollolol

So OP are you preparing and at what point would you consider it out of control to where you start prepping
 Quoting: FistOfFreedom


Now? The minute you hear that cases are being confirmed in major cities with major airports it's plausible that things are about to get real. I've always prepped. Just because I think it's folly not too. I have a family, if the house burns down, I better have a back up plan after all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


Great stuff..

Do you think it's more so a matter of when... not if?
 Quoting: FistOfFreedom


Honestly I've always thought it's just a matter of time. Always figured it would be the flu that brought us down. But in all seriousness, if there is one thing people should be afraid of, it's hemorrhagic fever.

The outbreak is already happening. It's real. The world is responding, WHO is sounding the alarm, the CDC is sounding the alarm. It's spread into one of the largest cities in Nigeria, the fact that it hasn't found a way here yet is irrelevant. Unless people start taking this seriously, and stop thinking that this entire thing is just a scare tactic, then yes, it is only a question of when.

Again, not saying it will happen, because proper precautions can fix all of that, but right now, it's just seems like everyone is scrambling, and no one really knows what to do.

For the life of me I have no idea why they were still allowing flights out of the hotzone.

The point is, this is real, this is serious, this is not a joke. And it scares the shit out of all of us in the healthcare industry because we know how that industry works. That is to say, for most things, healthcare works. For this? No way.

People can ignore this and call it BS if they want, it's their decision. It's their life. But if things go bad people should not expect that anyone at a hospital can save them. The system will NOT work under the current conditions.

Don't be one of those people dependent on a broken system to save them, it's already on the brink without the help of a major epidemic. Something like this can and will push it over the edge
SteamrolledGobias

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08/06/2014 07:44 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
ebola will do nothing.
 Quoting: T-Man


You need to educate yourself about "normalcy bias"

You have a severe case. Good luck. People with such
attitudes tend to be the first victims.
 Quoting: LouieFine 55933174


so how long until deaths happen in the US? 30 days? 90 days?

how long before BS flags?
beeches

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08/06/2014 07:44 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
"I used to work in a hospital, something is different about this Ebola"

Of course, because we have so much experience with this virus...

More lying fear mongering
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61032671


I didn't "used" to, I do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


I'm an ex-Fireman/HAZWOPER/Incident Commander. I'm telling you, first responders, EMT, ambulance crews, are going to be out to lunch once the calls start coming in. We can't handle infectious, NBC, bio-calls every time the pager goes off.
Every hypochondriac is going to overload the emergency systems before an outbreak even gets here. By the time it does, crews will be exhausted, understaffed, under supplied and prime vector sources themselves.
 Quoting: USCG Popeye


all true. which is why I am going to hunker down as much as humanly possible for the next month or so. Regardless of what happens with ebola, it is NOT the time to be sick if you can possibly avoid it.
we only have each other. And that makes us rich.. . .

Wisdom in the man, patience in the wife, brings peace to the house and a happy life.
beeches

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08/06/2014 07:48 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Hoax just like the swine flu. Gullible at all?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60221612


Swine flu was not a hoax. It claimed real lives. I am glad it was not more .
we only have each other. And that makes us rich.. . .

Wisdom in the man, patience in the wife, brings peace to the house and a happy life.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 07:54 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
ebola will do nothing.
 Quoting: T-Man


You need to educate yourself about "normalcy bias"

You have a severe case. Good luck. People with such
attitudes tend to be the first victims.
 Quoting: LouieFine 55933174


so how long until deaths happen in the US? 30 days? 90 days?

how long before BS flags?
 Quoting: SteamrolledGobias


I don't know if you're aware of this but the first Ebola death in the US may have happened already:

Thread: So CDC, Does The NYC Patient Have Ebola Or Not? You'll Have To Tell Us Eventually.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 08:01 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
OP -
Thanks for an enlightening thread.

I have a question about Morgellons.
At your lab, do you notice strange (Morgellons) fibers in your petri-dishes that are not identifiable?

I am wondering how you treat such findings when/if they occur and are noticed?

thx
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 08:04 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What is the possibility that the Chikungunya virus which presents similar symptoms could confuse the medical system to the point of paralysis. Cases are increasing in the U.S. as the Ebola spreads in Africa. In fact many viruses have similar symptoms so confusion seems inevitable. The headache, fever and joint pain are common symptoms and sorting through who has what seems like a near impossible task.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60532823


Again, good point. This is what I eluded in the op when I stated that a patient presenting with a headache, fever, sore throat etc. Would not cue anyone off. That literally could be anything. A cold? The flu? If someone came in with respiratory distress and sweating profusely you could easily make a case for a heart attack.

The point is, the early symptoms are so non specific it would be hard to tell what the patient is dealing with. And Viral infections never present exactly the same with everyone. You could have a fever, but no headache, you could have a rash, but no sore throat etc.

So yes you are absolutely correct, it would be very confusing for medical staff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


And what if Ebola has or is merged with Chikungunya, Dengue, or the many of others making its spreading capabilities epic, is this possible?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40286933


I'm honestly not sure. Viruses typically don't attack each other. Maybe a better way to ask is could two viruses exchange information? An example would be exchanging proteins or something like that. Which I suppose would be possible provided the other virus had already run it's course and shed some of it's "information" in the body. I'm definitely not a virologist, and my understanding compared to them is beyond basic.

Th scenario above seems plausible in theory I suppose, but I would not take it to heart. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I could shed a little more light.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


Viruses dont 'attack' one another but given enough victim density they may reassemble from a concomitant infections situation and merge genetic material and protein components and generate mutations.
The rate for this is low, and it requires a fulminating infectious process and close population density.
Viruses self assemble and the infected body that gets two or more simultaneous infections can generate unique products.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/06/2014 08:06 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
OP -
Thanks for an enlightening thread.

I have a question about Morgellons.
At your lab, do you notice strange (Morgellons) fibers in your petri-dishes that are not identifiable?

I am wondering how you treat such findings when/if they occur and are noticed?

thx
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61267673


I work in clinical stat laboratory. We do not partake in any research whatsoever. We are simply a diagnostic extension of our physicians. The result we provide from our lab test are largely done to confirm an already known diagnosis. This is the case with every single inpatient STAT lab.

Kaiser Permanente was commissioned (by the CDC I believe) to study Morgellons at a research lab in California. I do not know what the results of the research was.

Never seen any fibers on plates, but in an inpateint lab for an otherwise unverified disease, it's most likely that those fibers would just be deemed a "containment" in the culture.

Not saying that right, or even moral, again, hospital labs just don't have the ability to run diagnostics on everything.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 08:07 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I'm a doctor, and I have spent time in the field studying tropical medicine all over the world, including Africa, South America, and Asia. OP is spot on. While this may all be media hype, if ebola is spreading worldwide and has shifted its focus from mortality to morbidity, something has definitely changed and it has "found a way" to remain viable. Our healthcare system is not equipped for anything like this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 786640


I Concur.

That's just the way it is.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/06/2014 08:08 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
...


Again, good point. This is what I eluded in the op when I stated that a patient presenting with a headache, fever, sore throat etc. Would not cue anyone off. That literally could be anything. A cold? The flu? If someone came in with respiratory distress and sweating profusely you could easily make a case for a heart attack.

The point is, the early symptoms are so non specific it would be hard to tell what the patient is dealing with. And Viral infections never present exactly the same with everyone. You could have a fever, but no headache, you could have a rash, but no sore throat etc.

So yes you are absolutely correct, it would be very confusing for medical staff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


And what if Ebola has or is merged with Chikungunya, Dengue, or the many of others making its spreading capabilities epic, is this possible?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40286933


I'm honestly not sure. Viruses typically don't attack each other. Maybe a better way to ask is could two viruses exchange information? An example would be exchanging proteins or something like that. Which I suppose would be possible provided the other virus had already run it's course and shed some of it's "information" in the body. I'm definitely not a virologist, and my understanding compared to them is beyond basic.

Th scenario above seems plausible in theory I suppose, but I would not take it to heart. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I could shed a little more light.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


Viruses dont 'attack' one another but given enough victim density they may reassemble from a concomitant infections situation and merge genetic material and protein components and generate mutations.
The rate for this is low, and it requires a fulminating infectious process and close population density.
Viruses self assemble and the infected body that gets two or more simultaneous infections can generate unique products.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60275215


So glad someone could answer this, that you for stepping up and helping with that!
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 08:09 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
I have one question that I haven't seen answered anywhere.

Suppose one gets Ebola and is treated successfully.

Is that person then immune to Ebola, or can one simply be released from the hospital only to catch it again when arriving at home?
 Quoting: Kit MacReady


Have you got the flu before?
Are you immune?

Mutation
Charleegirl1

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08/06/2014 08:11 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
bump
Happygirl1111
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 08:12 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
OP -
Thanks for an enlightening thread.

I have a question about Morgellons.
At your lab, do you notice strange (Morgellons) fibers in your petri-dishes that are not identifiable?

I am wondering how you treat such findings when/if they occur and are noticed?

thx
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61267673


I work in clinical stat laboratory. We do not partake in any research whatsoever. We are simply a diagnostic extension of our physicians. The result we provide from our lab test are largely done to confirm an already known diagnosis. This is the case with every single inpatient STAT lab.

Kaiser Permanente was commissioned (by the CDC I believe) to study Morgellons at a research lab in California. I do not know what the results of the research was.

Never seen any fibers on plates, but in an inpateint lab for an otherwise unverified disease, it's most likely that those fibers would just be deemed a "containment" in the culture.

Not saying that right, or even moral, again, hospital labs just don't have the ability to run diagnostics on everything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


No way morgellons fibers would grow in standard petri dish used for bacterial cultures since those are for growing bacteria and not for growing any novel substances.
Cell cultures are a different animal altogether but used to grow intracellular cells which would essentially be parasitic and not likely to organize to create structures on their own.
TruthNow88

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08/06/2014 08:13 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601


You understand that Ebola is one of the largest (if not the largest) and therefor slowest to evolve viruses. For it to change so radically in such a short period of time is literally unheard of... They can compare Ebola samples from a few years ago to samples found in fossil's from millions of years ago... and guess what, the virus hardly changed at all. Yet we are to believe that in just the past ~1 year this virus has all of a sudden changed drastically (3% which might not sound like much but it is), making it have 3x the standard incubation period as well as being MUCH more easily transmittable then all other known strains of Ebola.

I guess my point is yes, something changed, but to assume it is natural is where you made your mistake. This thing is bioengineered... that is what changed, and it is far from natural.

Last Edited by TruthNow88 on 08/06/2014 08:13 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 08:14 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
...


And what if Ebola has or is merged with Chikungunya, Dengue, or the many of others making its spreading capabilities epic, is this possible?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40286933


I'm honestly not sure. Viruses typically don't attack each other. Maybe a better way to ask is could two viruses exchange information? An example would be exchanging proteins or something like that. Which I suppose would be possible provided the other virus had already run it's course and shed some of it's "information" in the body. I'm definitely not a virologist, and my understanding compared to them is beyond basic.

Th scenario above seems plausible in theory I suppose, but I would not take it to heart. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I could shed a little more light.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


Viruses dont 'attack' one another but given enough victim density they may reassemble from a concomitant infections situation and merge genetic material and protein components and generate mutations.
The rate for this is low, and it requires a fulminating infectious process and close population density.
Viruses self assemble and the infected body that gets two or more simultaneous infections can generate unique products.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60275215


So glad someone could answer this, that you for stepping up and helping with that!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


Read "Beasts of the Earth" to get a better understanding, written by two docs.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 08:15 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601


You understand that Ebola is one of the largest (if not the largest) and therefor slowest to evolve viruses. For it to change so radically in such a short period of time is literally unheard of... They can compare Ebola samples from a few years ago to samples found in fossil's from millions of years ago... and guess what, the virus hardly changed at all. Yet we are to believe that in just the past ~1 year this virus has all of a sudden changed drastically (3% which might not sound like much but it is), making it have 3x the standard incubation period as well as being MUCH more easily transmittable then all other known strains of Ebola.

I guess my point is yes, something changed, but to assume it is natural is where you made your mistake. This thing is bioengineered... that is what changed, and it is far from natural.
 Quoting: TruthNow88

Could you give link to where they found it in fossils.
Sobriquet™

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08/06/2014 08:15 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
It's not scary at all. Why would you be afraid of a psyop?

Idol1bsflag

Oh, unless you're scared shiatless of the karma you will reap by pushing this particular hoax...

damned
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61260452


9/11 was a psyop and a hoax too. But it still happened.

A psychological operation does not necessitate it being a hoax.

Was the OK City Federal Building bombing a hoax and a psyop?

Just because it's fuckery doesn't mean it's not real.

I believe it's real because it fits their agenda perfectly.

Seems like a perfect storm is brewing to me.
Government...
Govern: CONTROL
Ment: MIND
CONTROL MIND;MIND CONTROL

The terrorists attacks which will be launched in the United States will be blamed upon middle eastern religious fanatics, Christian fundamentalists, white supremacists, Patriots, or Militias. A more immediate result of these operations will be the increased use of military forces, weaponry, and equipment such as tanks and armored personnel carriers in civilian law enforcement, the suspension or elimination of Habeas Corpus, the elimination of jury trials, the attempted disarming of the American People, and the institution of martial law with show-trials conducted by a tribunal of judges. - William Cooper 1997 (RIP)

"If it's TRUE, it cannot be a THEORY!"
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And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. - John 3:19

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Here it is- about antibodies....
"Vaccine. None. As with exposure to other filoviruses, exposure to Ebola does not confer subsequent immunity. The antibody response in convalescent patients does not neutralize or protect against subsequent infection by Ebola virus. Researchers are now studying genetic immunization approaches."

[link to www.tarakharper.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59663952


With that in mind, could we say that Ebola has the potential to kill off 100% of humanity?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61056835


i guess some of that probability will be up to humanity

as a few others have pointed out , we live in a society of self obsessed hypochondriacs who will drag their infected carcasses to A&E / doctors surgeries and not give a shit about who they infect along the way

so i reckon if we all behave like self centred twats and don't isolate ourselves when we are ill( which we should do anyway)
then more people will be infected than if we behaved in a morally and socially responsible way

but largely , we won't as we are self obsessed ignorant and morally challenged aresholes

ergo- maybe we deserve to be wiped out as a result
TruthNow88

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601


You understand that Ebola is one of the largest (if not the largest) and therefor slowest to evolve viruses. For it to change so radically in such a short period of time is literally unheard of... They can compare Ebola samples from a few years ago to samples found in fossil's from millions of years ago... and guess what, the virus hardly changed at all. Yet we are to believe that in just the past ~1 year this virus has all of a sudden changed drastically (3% which might not sound like much but it is), making it have 3x the standard incubation period as well as being MUCH more easily transmittable then all other known strains of Ebola.

I guess my point is yes, something changed, but to assume it is natural is where you made your mistake. This thing is bioengineered... that is what changed, and it is far from natural.
 Quoting: TruthNow88

Could you give link to where they found it in fossils.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8189275


Rates of genetic change are one one-hundredth as fast as influenza A in humans, but on the same magnitude as those of hepatitis B. Extrapolating backwards using these rates indicates Ebolavirus and Marburgvirus diverged several thousand years ago.[15] However, paleoviruses (genomic fossils) of filoviruses (Filoviridae) found in mammals indicate that the family itself is at least tens of millions of years old.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Unexpected viral 'fossils' found in vertebrate genomes
[link to www.sciencedaily.com]


Molecular evolutionary analyses for Ebola and Marburg viruses were conducted with the aim of elucidating evolutionary features of these viruses. In particular, the rate of nonsynonymous substitutions for the glycoprotein gene of Ebola virus was estimated to be, on the average, 3.6 x 10(-5) per site per year. Marburg virus was also suggested to be evolving at a similar rate. Those rates were a hundred times slower than those of retroviruses and human influenza A virus, but were of the same order of magnitude as that of the hepatitis B virus. When these rates were applied to the degree of sequence divergence, the divergence time between Ebola and Marburg viruses was estimated to be more than several thousand years ago. Moreover, most of the nucleotide substitutions were transitions and synonymous for Marburg virus. This suggests that purifying selection has operated on Marburg virus during evolution.
[link to mbe.oxfordjournals.org]


What Ebola virus did in the past year would be = to if AIDS became airborne with 100x the mortality rate, with added drug-resistance, shit it would probably even glow for fuck sakes... My point is this "evolution" in Ebola was NOT NATURAL.
"Fuck the American regime change policy... Pardon me... I mean fuck our gift of democracy!"
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Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 08:28 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week.

This is what stood out to me. Ebola was ineffective as a weapon in past cases, because it killed to quickly and spread little. However, governments still tried to weaponize it. This new?? strain has the perfect incubation period for spread. That's what stands Boldly out to me.
I'm not an expert, I just remember the History of Ebola and have seen the reports of what it did in the past.
TruthNow88

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08/06/2014 08:31 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week.

This is what stood out to me. Ebola was ineffective as a weapon in past cases, because it killed to quickly and spread little. However, governments still tried to weaponize it. This new?? strain has the perfect incubation period for spread. That's what stands Boldly out to me.
I'm not an expert, I just remember the History of Ebola and have seen the reports of what it did in the past.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60992157


Fort Detrick... anyone with eyes to see knows where this "change" happened.

Filoviruses like Ebola have been of interest to the Pentagon since the late 1970s, mainly because Ebola and its fellow viruses have high mortality rates — in the current outbreak, roughly 60 percent to 72 percent of those who have contracted the disease have died — and its stable nature in aerosol make it attractive as a potential biological weapon.
[link to www.navytimes.com]

I bet it is DoD... fuckers!
"Fuck the American regime change policy... Pardon me... I mean fuck our gift of democracy!"
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Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 08:33 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
OP -
Thanks for an enlightening thread.

I have a question about Morgellons.
At your lab, do you notice strange (Morgellons) fibers in your petri-dishes that are not identifiable?

I am wondering how you treat such findings when/if they occur and are noticed?

thx
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61267673


I work in clinical stat laboratory. We do not partake in any research whatsoever. We are simply a diagnostic extension of our physicians. The result we provide from our lab test are largely done to confirm an already known diagnosis. This is the case with every single inpatient STAT lab.

Kaiser Permanente was commissioned (by the CDC I believe) to study Morgellons at a research lab in California. I do not know what the results of the research was.

Never seen any fibers on plates, but in an inpateint lab for an otherwise unverified disease, it's most likely that those fibers would just be deemed a "containment" in the culture.

Not saying that right, or even moral, again, hospital labs just don't have the ability to run diagnostics on everything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


No way morgellons fibers would grow in standard petri dish used for bacterial cultures since those are for growing bacteria and not for growing any novel substances.
Cell cultures are a different animal altogether but used to grow intracellular cells which would essentially be parasitic and not likely to organize to create structures on their own.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60275215


Oh - thanks.

Whatever - I'm wondering if OP or his wife find evidence of Morgellons in the lab while at work, and wondering what they think about it? (within any tests or procedures)
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
if we did have the means to contain Ebola GLP would think its an NWO plot to destroy the world either way..
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Wow, you obviously know what you're talking about. Question for you. I'm 57 and healthy. I have never had a flu shot. I don't do anything to avoid germs... I touch everything with my bare hands including public toilet seats and doors. Perhaps twice in my life I have had the flu. I stayed in bed, drank tons of water. Wouldn't I have the same outcome if ebola entered my body? Wouldn't my own immune system deal with it?
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Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
More idiotic fear-mongering. NOT ONE PERSON READING THIS IS AT RISK FROM EBOLA VIRUS!

Thread: ALERT! EBOLA PSYOP IN FULL SWING! Weapons of Mass Distraction Engaged....
 Quoting: Hugh M Eye


Thank you for that well informed and well thought out analysis of the situation. You very obviously read the thread. And are well versed in every single thing I was talking about.

You're that guy sitting in the ER waiting room puking his guts out and not understanding why the guy who just came in with a heart attack gets to see the doctor hours before you ever will.
.
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601



Thank you for the time you put into this.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Wow, you obviously know what you're talking about. Question for you. I'm 57 and healthy. I have never had a flu shot. I don't do anything to avoid germs... I touch everything with my bare hands including public toilet seats and doors. Perhaps twice in my life I have had the flu. I stayed in bed, drank tons of water. Wouldn't I have the same outcome if ebola entered my body? Wouldn't my own immune system deal with it?
 Quoting: Evil Cretin Heretic


It would do everything it could to deal with it. But some things are just to strong for us. AIDS, Smallpox, etc. You have to understand that these things are not just invaders, they are trying to spread, trying to survive. They are doing everything they can to continue the spread of their "species". We are the means for many viruses to do just that. It's not that your immune system can't fight it, it could, it would try, it's the fact that viruses depend on your body trying to fight it. Your immune response, coughing, sneezing, puking, sweating etc. that is how they spread. They make your body fight them, so they can invade another host.

Does that help?
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08/06/2014 08:50 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601


You understand that Ebola is one of the largest (if not the largest) and therefor slowest to evolve viruses. For it to change so radically in such a short period of time is literally unheard of... They can compare Ebola samples from a few years ago to samples found in fossil's from millions of years ago... and guess what, the virus hardly changed at all. Yet we are to believe that in just the past ~1 year this virus has all of a sudden changed drastically (3% which might not sound like much but it is), making it have 3x the standard incubation period as well as being MUCH more easily transmittable then all other known strains of Ebola.

I guess my point is yes, something changed, but to assume it is natural is where you made your mistake. This thing is bioengineered... that is what changed, and it is far from natural.
 Quoting: TruthNow88

Could you give link to where they found it in fossils.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8189275


Rates of genetic change are one one-hundredth as fast as influenza A in humans, but on the same magnitude as those of hepatitis B. Extrapolating backwards using these rates indicates Ebolavirus and Marburgvirus diverged several thousand years ago.[15] However, paleoviruses (genomic fossils) of filoviruses (Filoviridae) found in mammals indicate that the family itself is at least tens of millions of years old.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Unexpected viral 'fossils' found in vertebrate genomes
[link to www.sciencedaily.com]


Molecular evolutionary analyses for Ebola and Marburg viruses were conducted with the aim of elucidating evolutionary features of these viruses. In particular, the rate of nonsynonymous substitutions for the glycoprotein gene of Ebola virus was estimated to be, on the average, 3.6 x 10(-5) per site per year. Marburg virus was also suggested to be evolving at a similar rate. Those rates were a hundred times slower than those of retroviruses and human influenza A virus, but were of the same order of magnitude as that of the hepatitis B virus. When these rates were applied to the degree of sequence divergence, the divergence time between Ebola and Marburg viruses was estimated to be more than several thousand years ago. Moreover, most of the nucleotide substitutions were transitions and synonymous for Marburg virus. This suggests that purifying selection has operated on Marburg virus during evolution.
[link to mbe.oxfordjournals.org]


What Ebola virus did in the past year would be = to if AIDS became airborne with 100x the mortality rate, with added drug-resistance, shit it would probably even glow for fuck sakes... My point is this "evolution" in Ebola was NOT NATURAL.
 Quoting: TruthNow88


Thanks for links and agree after reading
Not Natural
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08/06/2014 08:51 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Omg..another eola threat thread...you fuuking losets..dont get in the fear conspiracy...we hsd a graet day today..live in,the presenr fuck the nearby future fear all jew fear mongering wake up and smell the daysies..litterly..ty love
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