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Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.

 
K Hall
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Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Today a LOT 787 Dreamliner made an emergency landing at Glasgow Prestwick airport following a fire warning from the luggage hold.

[link to www.theguardian.com]

The entire fleet of 787s had previously been grounded following fires in the controversial battery systems.

Firefighters examine the forward luggage hold.
[link to i.dailymail.co.uk]


This documentary outlines some of the problems with the 787 program. Claims are made that the proper engineering safety schedules were compressed for commercial reasons. The lithium cobalt batteries are just too dangerous for aircraft and that the Charleston assembly line is so bad, that one major customer refuses to take 787s built there.



[link to www.youtube.com]

When the film maker asks 15 Charleston workers if they would fly on their aircraft, 10 say no, one that does says "Yeah, I probably would but I have a kind of death wish".

K

Last Edited by K Hall on 05/06/2015 05:55 PM
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
There was something about turbulence hitting an Air India dream liner flight and a hush up

[link to economictimes.indiatimes.com]
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Dreamliner’s engine cracks even before its delivery

Read more at:
[link to economictimes.indiatimes.com]

Scary
hiding
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Boeing SCREAMLINER
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Dreamliner’s engine cracks even before its delivery

Read more at:
[link to economictimes.indiatimes.com]

Scary
hiding
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10361628


Thanks for those links. I can't say I am surprised by the reports of cracking. During the documentary a composites specialist hired by Boeing to write the repair procedure for parts damaged during manufacture witnessed damaged parts being ignored, papered over or hidden, he stated,

"I have no doubt there are bad repairs going out the door on the 787, I am worried that sooner or later there is going to be a structural failure on the fuselage".

The 787 makes the most use of composites of any airliner, including fuselage barrels. The scenario is scarily reminiscent of the De Havilland Comet 1 airliner, which was the first highly pressurised airliner ( first jet airliner ). It suffered three catastrophic fuselage failures due to metal fatigue.

K

Last Edited by K Hall on 09/26/2014 03:38 PM
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Today a LOT 787 Dreamliner made an emergency landing at Glasgow Prestwick airport following a fire warning from the luggage hold.

[link to www.theguardian.com]

The entire fleet of 787s had previously been grounded following fires in the controversial battery systems.

Firefighters examine the forward luggage hold.
[link to i.dailymail.co.uk]


This documentary outlines some of the problems with the 787 program. Claims are made that the proper engineering safety schedules were compressed for commercial reasons. The lithium cobalt batteries are just too dangerous for aircraft and that the Charleston assembly line is so bad, that one major customer refuses to take 787s built there.



[link to www.youtube.com]

When the film maker asks 15 Charleston workers if they would fly on their aircraft, 10 say no, one that does says "Yeah, I probably would but I have a kind of death wish".

K
 Quoting: K Hall


Goddam!

I watched that whole You tube Video and it is a scathing indictment on the fatcats at the top where it is all about increasing profits over quality and pride in our products.

They give up quality for more profits.

Walmart is a shining example of another "American" company selling us cheap Chinese crap to fatten their bottom line for the cockroaches on Wall Street.

I'll never fly on a 787 tell you after watching that.
The Corporate CEO's need to burn in Hell when one of those birds come down and kill hundreds.
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
whatever happened to the one that put down on the too short runway? like KS or something
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Conflicting reports about what happened today. Sky news and other news outlets are saying that not only was the fire protection and warning system system showing there was a problem but the pilots "could smell smoke".

[link to news.sky.com]

Firefighters with breathing apparatus.
[link to i.dailymail.co.uk]

[link to i.dailymail.co.uk]

Later on,

Barbara Pijanowska-Kuras, a LOT spokeswoman, said: "The emergency landing of the plane was caused by a glitch in the fire protection system. There was no fire or smoke on board."

She added that "generally speaking, the aircraft is functional. We are waiting for a confirmation from technical services to say when the aircraft could fly back to Poland."

[link to news.airwise.com]

"Generally speaking" I am not filled with confidence

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Conflicting reports about what happened today. Sky news and other news outlets are saying that not only was the fire protection and warning system system showing there was a problem but the pilots "could smell smoke".

[link to news.sky.com]

Firefighters with breathing apparatus.
[link to i.dailymail.co.uk]

[link to i.dailymail.co.uk]

Later on,

Barbara Pijanowska-Kuras, a LOT spokeswoman, said: "The emergency landing of the plane was caused by a glitch in the fire protection system. There was no fire or smoke on board."

She added that "generally speaking, the aircraft is functional. We are waiting for a confirmation from technical services to say when the aircraft could fly back to Poland."

[link to news.airwise.com]

"Generally speaking" I am not filled with confidence

K
 Quoting: K Hall


I would like to borrow your thread for a new one with a different objective in mind based on what I have learned here with this one.
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Someone sayz,

Tin whiskers. Perhaps made worse through Hydrogen Sulphide ah la the Jumping Jack Flash Hypothesis.

--------------
Don’t Let Tin Whiskers Destroy Your Design
Abhishek Gupta Abhishek Gupta, Cypress Semiconductor Oct 15, 2013

“Tin whiskers” is not an imaginative, fanciful term for some obscure aspect of electronics manufacturing. Tin whiskers are real, microscopic conductive fibers emanating from pure tin surfaces, and they pose a serious problem to electronics of all types. Almost invisible to the human eye and 10 to 100 times thinner than a human hair, they can bridge fairly large distances between electrical device leads.
...
When a whisker grows between two conductors, it usually “fuses” (disappears), creating a momentary short circuit. In some cases it forms a conductive path, creating false signals at an incorrect location that can, in turn, cause improper operation of the device in question. They can grow fairly rapidly. Incubation can range from days to years, and there is no set timetable for when they commence growing. In very rare cases, rather than disappearing like a fuse link, the whisker can instead form conductive plasma capable of carrying over 200 A.
...
Tin whiskers are relevant to today’s engineers and OEMs because they are a result of switching to lead-free electronics. The use of lead (Pb) has been banned in Europe since 2006 by the 2003 Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive 2002/95/EC (RoHS). Although it originated in Europe, the directive now affects virtually every piece of electronics gear manufactured today or planned for the near future.
...
There have been several incidents relating to Boeing 787 airliner electrical systems. In December 2012, a short circuit and electrical arcing were caused by a fault in a module that controlled a generator and plugged into the power panel of the motherboard. It caused the cockpit instruments to indicate that one of the plane’s six generators was down.
.............
[link to electronicdesign.com] . Less than 50% copied. Emphasis added. Edited for readability.
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Conflicting reports about what happened today. Sky news and other news outlets are saying that not only was the fire protection and warning system system showing there was a problem but the pilots "could smell smoke".

[link to news.sky.com]

Firefighters with breathing apparatus.
[link to i.dailymail.co.uk]

[link to i.dailymail.co.uk]

Later on,

Barbara Pijanowska-Kuras, a LOT spokeswoman, said: "The emergency landing of the plane was caused by a glitch in the fire protection system. There was no fire or smoke on board."

She added that "generally speaking, the aircraft is functional. We are waiting for a confirmation from technical services to say when the aircraft could fly back to Poland."

[link to news.airwise.com]

"Generally speaking" I am not filled with confidence

K
 Quoting: K Hall


I would like to borrow your thread for a new one with a different objective in mind based on what I have learned here with this one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63035628


Are you hijacking the thread and forcing it to fly to a conspiracy forum in the middle east ?

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Conflicting reports about what happened today. Sky news and other news outlets are saying that not only was the fire protection and warning system system showing there was a problem but the pilots "could smell smoke".

[link to news.sky.com]

Firefighters with breathing apparatus.
[link to i.dailymail.co.uk]

[link to i.dailymail.co.uk]

Later on,

Barbara Pijanowska-Kuras, a LOT spokeswoman, said: "The emergency landing of the plane was caused by a glitch in the fire protection system. There was no fire or smoke on board."

She added that "generally speaking, the aircraft is functional. We are waiting for a confirmation from technical services to say when the aircraft could fly back to Poland."

[link to news.airwise.com]

"Generally speaking" I am not filled with confidence

K
 Quoting: K Hall


I would like to borrow your thread for a new one with a different objective in mind based on what I have learned here with this one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63035628


Are you hijacking the thread and forcing it to fly to a conspiracy forum in the middle east ?

K
 Quoting: K Hall


Hehe. No just setting up a summary of the video. Feel Free to add to the summary if I missed or misstated something.

Thread: The Cost to Quality when Profits is the Main Priority - 787 Dreamliner
K Hall  (OP)

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09/26/2014 05:33 PM
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Goddam!

I watched that whole You tube Video and it is a scathing indictment on the fatcats at the top where it is all about increasing profits over quality and pride in our products.

They give up quality for more profits.

Walmart is a shining example of another "American" company selling us cheap Chinese crap to fatten their bottom line for the cockroaches on Wall Street.

I'll never fly on a 787 tell you after watching that.
The Corporate CEO's need to burn in Hell when one of those birds come down and kill hundreds.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63035628


Yes it is shocking. In this case quality means safety. Every bolt supplied to an aircraft manufacturer has to be inspected by a authorised person and the inspection recorded on a certificate, that's how seriously safety is taken, similarly every job on the production line must be signed off by the quality manger, that just wasn't happening at Charleston.

I would like to borrow your thread for a new one with a different objective in mind based on what I have learned here with this one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63035628


That's quite similar isn't it ?

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Someone sayz,

Tin whiskers. Perhaps made worse through Hydrogen Sulphide ah la the Jumping Jack Flash Hypothesis.

--------------
Don’t Let Tin Whiskers Destroy Your Design
Abhishek Gupta Abhishek Gupta, Cypress Semiconductor Oct 15, 2013

“Tin whiskers” is not an imaginative, fanciful term for some obscure aspect of electronics manufacturing. Tin whiskers are real, microscopic conductive fibers emanating from pure tin surfaces, and they pose a serious problem to electronics of all types. Almost invisible to the human eye and 10 to 100 times thinner than a human hair, they can bridge fairly large distances between electrical device leads.
...
When a whisker grows between two conductors, it usually “fuses” (disappears), creating a momentary short circuit. In some cases it forms a conductive path, creating false signals at an incorrect location that can, in turn, cause improper operation of the device in question. They can grow fairly rapidly. Incubation can range from days to years, and there is no set timetable for when they commence growing. In very rare cases, rather than disappearing like a fuse link, the whisker can instead form conductive plasma capable of carrying over 200 A.
...
Tin whiskers are relevant to today’s engineers and OEMs because they are a result of switching to lead-free electronics. The use of lead (Pb) has been banned in Europe since 2006 by the 2003 Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive 2002/95/EC (RoHS). Although it originated in Europe, the directive now affects virtually every piece of electronics gear manufactured today or planned for the near future.
...
There have been several incidents relating to Boeing 787 airliner electrical systems. In December 2012, a short circuit and electrical arcing were caused by a fault in a module that controlled a generator and plugged into the power panel of the motherboard. It caused the cockpit instruments to indicate that one of the plane’s six generators was down.
.............
[link to electronicdesign.com] . Less than 50% copied. Emphasis added. Edited for readability.
 Quoting: Someone 38307156


Not at all surprised, the reason lead was added to solder originally was to reduce tin whiskers. I still have reels of lead solder at home. The lead free stuff is rubbish, much harder to work with. It has a higher melting temperature so if you are doing anything delicate you risk damaging the components.

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Here are Boeing test pilots Mike Byran and Randy Neville proving that the wings don't fall off that easily at this years Farnborough international trade show. Following this display on Monday they were asked not to perform the touch and go again.



[link to www.youtube.com]

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Quite a good summary of the 787 situation. Beacon battery causing a fire that shutdown Heathrow airport lasy year and massive tax breaks for Boeing's Charleston plant.



[link to www.youtube.com]

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Not as many concerned fliers as I thought there would be.
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Boeing SCREAMLINER
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027587


DOOMliner
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
bump

going to forward this to everyone i know. thanks op.
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
bump

going to forward this to everyone i know. thanks op.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63331506


It's pretty shocking isn't it. Airbus has decided to ditch lithium ion batteries from its design for the A350 and switch to safe nickel-cadmium batteries instead in what they describe as a risk reduction strategy. The A350 will be Airbus' rival to Boeing's 787 and 777.

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
*******************************************

Once Again the Unions will take this once great company to the grave!


*********************************************
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
*******************************************

Once Again the Unions will take this once great company to the grave!


*********************************************
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57797836


Ah, you didn't watch the film did you? It's the Boeing management that is taking the company down the toilet. The non union workers at Charleston are building potentially deadly aircraft.

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Terrible teens

Eleven early production 787s sit unloved on a taxiway outside Boeing’s Everett factory. Dubbed the "terrible teens" they are heavier than any other 787 due to the extensive post manufacturing safety modifications.

[link to airwaysnews.com]

Boeing is looking for a buyer to offload them on to.

[link to www.bloomberg.com]

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
hard to believe when safe battery tech' has been around for ever . they are trying to save weight which shows airlines thirst for profits . the battery probably weighs as much as 4 pax . the farnborough flying was pretty crazy i thought . its not a fighter !
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
The 787 has its very own version of the millennium bug. Boeing have discovered that after the control units on the aircraft's generators ( GCUs ) have been running for a total of 248 days, a timer counter overflows and the generator goes into failsafe mode. If all four GCUs ( two on each engine ) were started at the same time then they will all shut down together, as the FAA describe it-

"This AD was prompted by the determination that a Model 787 airplane that has been powered continuously for 248 days can lose all alternating current (AC) electrical power due to the generator control units (GCUs) simultaneously going into failsafe mode regardless of flight phase.
....
Loss of all AC electrical power can result in loss of control of the airplane."
[link to s3.amazonaws.com (secure)]

One of the 787's feature is that unlike earlier aircraft, absolutely everything on the aircraft is electrically powered. That includes pressurisation of the cabin and pressurisation of the hydraulic system for control surfaces and undercarriage ( bleedless engine design ).

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
The 787 has its very own version of the millennium bug. Boeing have discovered that after the control units on the aircraft's generators ( GCUs ) have been running for a total of 248 days, a timer counter overflows and the generator goes into failsafe mode. If all four GCUs ( two on each engine ) were started at the same time then they will all shut down together, as the FAA describe it-

"This AD was prompted by the determination that a Model 787 airplane that has been powered continuously for 248 days can lose all alternating current (AC) electrical power due to the generator control units (GCUs) simultaneously going into failsafe mode regardless of flight phase.
....
Loss of all AC electrical power can result in loss of control of the airplane."
[link to s3.amazonaws.com (secure)]

One of the 787's feature is that unlike earlier aircraft, absolutely everything on the aircraft is electrically powered. That includes pressurisation of the cabin and pressurisation of the hydraulic system for control surfaces and undercarriage ( bleedless engine design ).

K
 Quoting: K Hall


I was getting ready to write the fact that this is such as non-issue that I can't believe it's being made into one. Firstly, NO commercial aircraft stays powered up for any length of time, usually powered down each day when the shift for the plane is over.

Point being, no plane, not even Air Force One would have its power kept online that long, they have maintenance and other things they do which would disconnect these power sources anyway in most cases. Again, real non-issue that was lab discovered, which forced them to have to notify the FAA, which then acted to put notice out on the issue.
K Hall  (OP)

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05/06/2015 08:25 PM
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
The 787 has its very own version of the millennium bug. Boeing have discovered that after the control units on the aircraft's generators ( GCUs ) have been running for a total of 248 days, a timer counter overflows and the generator goes into failsafe mode. If all four GCUs ( two on each engine ) were started at the same time then they will all shut down together, as the FAA describe it-

"This AD was prompted by the determination that a Model 787 airplane that has been powered continuously for 248 days can lose all alternating current (AC) electrical power due to the generator control units (GCUs) simultaneously going into failsafe mode regardless of flight phase.
....
Loss of all AC electrical power can result in loss of control of the airplane."
[link to s3.amazonaws.com (secure)]

One of the 787's feature is that unlike earlier aircraft, absolutely everything on the aircraft is electrically powered. That includes pressurisation of the cabin and pressurisation of the hydraulic system for control surfaces and undercarriage ( bleedless engine design ).

K
 Quoting: K Hall


I was getting ready to write the fact that this is such as non-issue that I can't believe it's being made into one. Firstly, NO commercial aircraft stays powered up for any length of time, usually powered down each day when the shift for the plane is over.

Point being, no plane, not even Air Force One would have its power kept online that long, they have maintenance and other things they do which would disconnect these power sources anyway in most cases. Again, real non-issue that was lab discovered, which forced them to have to notify the FAA, which then acted to put notice out on the issue.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 65801876


You would have to be sure the GCUs had been powered down. Boeing says “If there is a definitive record of a powercycle within the last 120 days, no operator action is immediately required. Operators will perform periodic power cycling at scheduled intervals until incorporating a software update. Boeing will issue in the fourth quarter of 2015,”
[link to www.theguardian.com]

Are you saying that cold and dark means the same as a powercycle. I think a power cycle that would reset the GCUs is a definite maintenance action ( during B check ? ) that they now have a directive to perform.

What about this ?
"It generally would be rare for a jet to be connected to a power source for so long. However, when the Dreamliner launched, it experienced a few glitches, such as erroneous "nuisance" messages, just after being powered up, so Boeing recommended airlines power up the 787 earlier before a flight than they might with other aircraft. To avoid the issue, some airlines have been keeping their Dreamliners powered up for long period of time."
[link to www.bizjournals.com]

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
K Hall  (OP)

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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
I'm not sure if we are supposed to be able to read this but anyway here is Boeing's "position statement" on the bug and its AD.

[link to 787updates.newairplane.com]

K
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics" - Fred Hoyle
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
The GCU’s principal function is to provide voltage regulation and fault current limiting while in the generate mode. The GCU also supports the main engine start function

My point stands though.

No GCU is going to be kept operating for the time period required to cause this in the field, nor would it have if this was never discovered for another decade. That's really all I'm saying.
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Re: Boeing 787 Dreamliner documentary. LATEST - FAA says reboot your Dreamliner if you don't want it to fall out of the sky.
Check out Begino's brief threads pointing to this very thing possibly happening on the 14th May.