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All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present

 
b4its2l8

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12/10/2018 08:53 AM
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
...

Oh, if you only understood context.
Jesus was speaking to his Disciples, Hebrews, not to Gentiles, nor the World.
They were inquiring regarding the fulfillment of God's prophecies to Israel.

I noticed you conveniently skipped verse 16,
16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Which squarely places the context, to those who are in Israel and what they will see.

Something that is not plainly mentioned is that the current age of technology ( age of the Gentiles ruling the World) will end first.
This is proven by Eze ch 39 and other passages.
39 9 Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out, kindle fires, and burn the weapons— the bucklers and shields, the bows and arrows, the clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel. 10 They will not gather wood from the countryside or cut it from the forests, for they will use the weapons for fuel. They will loot those who looted them and plunder those who plundered them, declares the Lord GOD.

Showing that there is definite lack of technology( back to burning wood for fuel in order to cook and heat with).
So no electricity or natural gas run appliances.
Also a lack military technology at this time, ( no tanks, planes, guns, etc).
So, no smart phones, video, etc! Sorry.


It must occur this way, in order to produce the power vacuum, for the anti Christ to rise to power, First in the Middle East, and then in the rest of the World.
Currently the Gentile, World powers( USA, Russia, etc) control the Middle East to prevent a major conflict or shift in power, Such as the Rise of the Anti Christ to power. So this must change also before any thing else can happen
 Quoting: The Dr.


Speaking only to Israel?

Rev 13:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall SEE their dead bodies three and an half days lie in the street. (KJV)

This says other people from other nations will SEE their dead bodies in the street.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Speaking only to Israel?

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

 Quoting: b4its2l8


I guess I have to 'prove' the tribulation is for the entire world.

I'll start with this:

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

----

Here we are in the great tribulation:

Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

----

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Here's a partial outline to show how Revelation and Matthew 24 events are the same:

7 seal judgements (Rev 6): - Matthew 24, what Jesus calls time of sorrows:

First four seal judgements: 4 horses of apocalypse start journey -

1) NWO-globalization - take over by deception; Math 24, see that no man deceives you.

2) war(terrorism?) - Math 24, nation will rise against nation.

3) price of food soars, - Math 24, there will be famine in diverse places.

4) 1/4 earth men dies (hunger, pestilence, catastrophes, etc) - Math 24, disease; famine; earthquakes.

Next - seals 5, 6 & 7

5) Christians are killed for believing in Jesus - Math 24, many will be killed for my namesake

6) Great earthquake, sun blackens, moon red, many signs in sky takes place; men hide, for the great day of his wrath is come - Matthew 24, what Jesus calls the Great Tribulation starts with this seal.
b4its2l8

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12/11/2018 01:35 PM
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
...


Speaking only to Israel?

Rev 13:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall SEE their dead bodies three and an half days lie in the street. (KJV)

This says other people from other nations will SEE their dead bodies in the street.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Speaking only to Israel?

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

 Quoting: b4its2l8


I guess I have to 'prove' the tribulation is for the entire world.

I'll start with this:

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

----

Here we are in the great tribulation:

Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

----

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Here's a partial outline to show how Revelation and Matthew 24 events are the same:

7 seal judgements (Rev 6): - Matthew 24, what Jesus calls time of sorrows:

First four seal judgements: 4 horses of apocalypse start journey -

1) NWO-globalization - take over by deception; Math 24, see that no man deceives you.

2) war(terrorism?) - Math 24, nation will rise against nation.

3) price of food soars, - Math 24, there will be famine in diverse places.

4) 1/4 earth men dies (hunger, pestilence, catastrophes, etc) - Math 24, disease; famine; earthquakes.

Next - seals 5, 6 & 7

5) Christians are killed for believing in Jesus - Math 24, many will be killed for my namesake

6) Great earthquake, sun blackens, moon red, many signs in sky takes place; men hide, for the great day of his wrath is come - Matthew 24, what Jesus calls the Great Tribulation starts with this seal.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


This article hits on many points I've not covered in my postings:

[link to www.ucg.org (secure)]

Small Excerpt:

The final crisis

Jesus at this point turns to local events that will lead to worldwide upheaval. He says, “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near” (Luke 21:20). This He declares in conjunction with “the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (Matthew 24:15; compare Mark 13:14).

Daniel had foretold a foreign invasion of the Holy Land and the placement of the abomination of desolation within the temple complex (Daniel 11:31). If we follow the historical fulfillment of the Daniel 11 prophecy, it becomes apparent that this was accomplished under the Syrian invader Antiochus Epiphanes, who caused a pagan defilement of the temple around 168 B.C.

Yet this was long before Jesus spoke
. So Jesus must have been declaring that this past fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy was not a complete fulfillment—that the past event was a prototype or forerunner of something still to come.
b4its2l8

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12/12/2018 04:08 PM
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
...


Speaking only to Israel?

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

 Quoting: b4its2l8


I guess I have to 'prove' the tribulation is for the entire world.

I'll start with this:

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

----

Here we are in the great tribulation:

Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

----

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Here's a partial outline to show how Revelation and Matthew 24 events are the same:

7 seal judgements (Rev 6): - Matthew 24, what Jesus calls time of sorrows:

First four seal judgements: 4 horses of apocalypse start journey -

1) NWO-globalization - take over by deception; Math 24, see that no man deceives you.

2) war(terrorism?) - Math 24, nation will rise against nation.

3) price of food soars, - Math 24, there will be famine in diverse places.

4) 1/4 earth men dies (hunger, pestilence, catastrophes, etc) - Math 24, disease; famine; earthquakes.

Next - seals 5, 6 & 7

5) Christians are killed for believing in Jesus - Math 24, many will be killed for my namesake

6) Great earthquake, sun blackens, moon red, many signs in sky takes place; men hide, for the great day of his wrath is come - Matthew 24, what Jesus calls the Great Tribulation starts with this seal.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


This article hits on many points I've not covered in my postings:

[link to www.ucg.org (secure)]

Small Excerpt:

The final crisis

Jesus at this point turns to local events that will lead to worldwide upheaval. He says, “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near” (Luke 21:20). This He declares in conjunction with “the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (Matthew 24:15; compare Mark 13:14).

Daniel had foretold a foreign invasion of the Holy Land and the placement of the abomination of desolation within the temple complex (Daniel 11:31). If we follow the historical fulfillment of the Daniel 11 prophecy, it becomes apparent that this was accomplished under the Syrian invader Antiochus Epiphanes, who caused a pagan defilement of the temple around 168 B.C.

Yet this was long before Jesus spoke
. So Jesus must have been declaring that this past fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy was not a complete fulfillment—that the past event was a prototype or forerunner of something still to come.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


More from the above author:

Small excerpt:

Christ’s Olivet prophecy progresses, in concert with the book of Revelation, toward the final events before His return. He said, “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24). Even the elect, the people of God who “keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Revelation 12:17), will be susceptible to this great deception.

The apostle Paul spoke of this time of deception in 2 Thessalonians 2. This prophecy of a “man of sin” to arise before Christ’s return stands out within Paul’s writings.

This end-time deception is led by a figure “who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped” and who will even sit “in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.”...

A final great deception to come

Christ’s prophecy of false teachers coming in His name, claiming He is the Christ but deceiving many, indeed came to pass. Church history is largely a story of teachings and practices of the counterfeit Christianity, with its system of beliefs and practices fundamentally different from what the early New Testament Church believed and taught. The story of those who held to or at times recaptured the essence of true Christianity is not easy to follow through history.

Today those who strive to practice the teachings that Christ put into His Church are few in comparison to the thousands of churches that call themselves Christian but are in fact descendants of the counterfeit movement begun in the first century....

[link to www.ucg.org (secure)]
b4its2l8

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12/13/2018 04:20 PM
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
...


God always saves a remnant - no matter how horrendous things are:

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation...

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


22 And except those days should be shortened...

Some debate exists on what it means for days to be shortened:

Here's an interesting take on it.

Was the Lord meaning a literal shortening of time?

Small excerpt:

Events that change the earth:

Japan Earthquake

It’s hard for us to imagine events that can change the times, but they do happen. Recently, the day was shortened by the 8.9 mag earthquake in Japan when the earth’s rotation sped up by a microsecond.

The difference in the earth’s rotation around the sun to equate 5 less days in a year would be approx. 0.43 km/s or speed it up to 30.2 km/s.

We can already get an idea that the events spoken of in the Bible will be catastrophic on a global scale if we were to take the passage literally. Because the day was shortened by the earthquake, we assume that the number of days in a year was increased by a tiny amount, but what if it wasn’t?

It’s possible that the various changes on the planet caused by the earthquake affected the planet’s wobble, core configuration, magnetic field, or trajectory through space that could have had the opposite effect of speeding the earth’s course around the sun. Scientists are exploring the effects, but we have no way of knowing for certain....

[link to judeochristianchurch.com]
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Here we have the length of the tribulation being cut short:

Biblegateway: AMP

And if those days [of tribulation] had not been cut short, no human life would be saved; but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


To shorten does Not necessarily mean to shorten at the end of tribulation. It could also mean to shorten at the beginning of tribulation.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Matthew 24:22 (B) but (for the elect's sake) those days shall be shortened.

So we know from this passage not everyone was killed: Many of the very elect were kept alive...

So who are the elect referred to here?
Dave X

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12/13/2018 05:03 PM
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
We are definitely close to the start of the tribulation period. I think we have months left at the most!

Get right with the Lord now because He comes as a thief in the night!
b4its2l8

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12/14/2018 07:58 AM
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
We are definitely close to the start of the tribulation period. I think we have months left at the most!

Get right with the Lord now because He comes as a thief in the night!

 Quoting: Dave X


hf

As Ed Morrissey of Hotair said:

Signs, signs, every where signs
b4its2l8

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12/16/2018 07:51 AM
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
...


22 And except those days should be shortened...

Some debate exists on what it means for days to be shortened:

Here's an interesting take on it.

Was the Lord meaning a literal shortening of time?

Small excerpt:

Events that change the earth:

Japan Earthquake

It’s hard for us to imagine events that can change the times, but they do happen. Recently, the day was shortened by the 8.9 mag earthquake in Japan when the earth’s rotation sped up by a microsecond.

The difference in the earth’s rotation around the sun to equate 5 less days in a year would be approx. 0.43 km/s or speed it up to 30.2 km/s.

We can already get an idea that the events spoken of in the Bible will be catastrophic on a global scale if we were to take the passage literally. Because the day was shortened by the earthquake, we assume that the number of days in a year was increased by a tiny amount, but what if it wasn’t?

It’s possible that the various changes on the planet caused by the earthquake affected the planet’s wobble, core configuration, magnetic field, or trajectory through space that could have had the opposite effect of speeding the earth’s course around the sun. Scientists are exploring the effects, but we have no way of knowing for certain....

[link to judeochristianchurch.com]
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Here we have the length of the tribulation being cut short:

Biblegateway: AMP

And if those days [of tribulation] had not been cut short, no human life would be saved; but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


To shorten does Not necessarily mean to shorten at the end of tribulation. It could also mean to shorten at the beginning of tribulation.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Matthew 24:22 (B) but (for the elect's sake) those days shall be shortened.

So we know from this passage not everyone was killed: Many of the very elect were kept alive...

So who are the elect referred to here?
 Quoting: b4its2l8


We asked the question, and we get more questions:

Who are “the elect” referred to in Matthew 24:31?

Small Excerpt:

The question here is this: “Who are the elect that he gathers with a great sound of a trumpet from the four winds of heaven? Are they the Church saints?” I’m convinced that they are not.

Let me tell you why. For one thing, if you’re going to say these are Church saints, you’re overlooking some extensive revelation that’s given to us in the Old Testament. What kind of revelation?

There are passages in the Old Testament where God calls the whole nation of Israel “His chosen,” literally “His Elect.”....

[link to www.jashow.org (secure)]
b4its2l8

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12/19/2018 07:20 AM
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
...


Here we have the length of the tribulation being cut short:

Biblegateway: AMP

And if those days [of tribulation] had not been cut short, no human life would be saved; but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


To shorten does Not necessarily mean to shorten at the end of tribulation. It could also mean to shorten at the beginning of tribulation.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Matthew 24:22 (B) but (for the elect's sake) those days shall be shortened.

So we know from this passage not everyone was killed: Many of the very elect were kept alive...

So who are the elect referred to here?


We asked the question, and we get more questions:

Who are “the elect” referred to in Matthew 24:31?

Small Excerpt:

The question here is this: “Who are the elect that he gathers with a great sound of a trumpet from the four winds of heaven? Are they the Church saints?” I’m convinced that they are not.

Let me tell you why. For one thing, if you’re going to say these are Church saints, you’re overlooking some extensive revelation that’s given to us in the Old Testament. What kind of revelation?

There are passages in the Old Testament where God calls the whole nation of Israel “His chosen,” literally “His Elect.”....

[link to www.jashow.org (secure)]


This person makes the supposition we're getting it wrong if we say it's the nation Israel - by virtue of this statement:

The '"elect" is a reference to believers' - and we know most jews are not believers:

Small Excerpt:

In the Olivet Discourse, as in any passage of Scripture, it is important to note the referents of the pronouns. In verse one, we note that it is the disciples who approach Jesus with the question regarding the destruction of the temple and
 Quoting: b4its2l8
n that would signal His return. Beginning in verse two, we are introduced to a series of pronouns differentiating those who are, and would become, His disciples and those who are not, and would not, become disciples. We see in the second verse for example, "Truly I say to you" (the questioning disciples). In verse three we see a reference to "us" (disciples) and again in verse four, referring to the disciples, the warning of Christ, "See to it that no one misleads you."

Throughout the remainder of the discourse, Jesus frequently makes use of those pronouns. In contrast to the "you" and "us", Jesus refers to "they" (cf. verses 9, 26, 30). The "they" in the context of the discourse is a reference to those who are in
 Quoting: b4its2l8
on to Christ.

The association of "elect" and "you" (disciples) is clearly made in verses 22-24. Jesus says, "And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days shall be cut short. Then - if any one says to you...so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect" (emphasis added). The association of "elect" and "you" (disciples) in these verses is clearly made and it is equally clear that the term "elect" is not referring to national Israel.

[link to www.solagroup.org]
b4its2l8

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12/19/2018 07:26 AM
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
Oops - post mangled

Here it is again:

This person makes the supposition we're getting it wrong if we say it's the nation Israel - by virtue of this statement:

The '"elect" is a reference to believers' - and we know most jews are not believers:

Small Excerpt:

In the Olivet Discourse, as in any passage of Scripture, it is important to note the referents of the pronouns. In verse one, we note that it is the disciples who approach Jesus with the question regarding the destruction of the temple and the sign that would signal His return. Beginning in verse two, we are introduced to a series of pronouns differentiating those who are, and would become, His disciples and those who are not, and would not, become disciples. We see in the second verse for example, "Truly I say to you" (the questioning disciples). In verse three we see a reference to "us" (disciples) and again in verse four, referring to the disciples, the warning of Christ, "See to it that no one misleads you."

Throughout the remainder of the discourse, Jesus frequently makes use of those pronouns. In contrast to the "you" and "us", Jesus refers to "they" (cf. verses 9, 26, 30). The "they" in the context of the discourse is a reference to those who are in opposition to Christ.

The association of "elect" and "you" (disciples) is clearly made in verses 22-24. Jesus says, "And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days shall be cut short. Then - if any one says to you...so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect" (emphasis added). The association of "elect" and "you" (disciples) in these verses is clearly made and it is equally clear that the term "elect" is not referring to national Israel.

[link to www.solagroup.org]
b4its2l8

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12/21/2018 07:55 AM
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
We can say with certainty these aren't the elect:

Breitbart:

Illinois Attorney General Accuses Catholic Church of Withholding Names of 500 Priests Accused of Sex Abuse...

Falls under the category - evil abounds...
Truth Reaper

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12/21/2018 10:37 AM

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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
Good, it's time order hits this planet.
Truth Reaper

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12/21/2018 10:37 AM

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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
God is going to show them all what order out of chaos looks like.

Last Edited by Truth Reaper on 12/21/2018 10:38 AM
b4its2l8

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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
God is going to show them all what order out of chaos looks like.
 Quoting: Truth Reaper


Yep!!
b4its2l8

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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
Natural disasters set records around the world in 2018. These were some of the worst.

Natural disasters devastated communities around the world in 2018, killing thousands of people and inflicting billions of dollars in damage.

In September, at least 1,900 people died in Indonesia after a magnitude 7.5 earthquake and a subsequent tsunami with waves as high as 20 feet. The following month, Hurricane Michael, the strongest storm to hit the United States in 50 years, devastated North and South Carolina and killed dozens of people. Some of the worst fires in US history hit California shortly afterward, melting cars, reducing bodies to bone, and wiping out an entire town....

[link to www.businessinsider.com (secure)]

---


2018: A Year of Record-breaking Disasters

This year, we experienced a number of record-breaking disasters across the country ranging from deadly hurricanes to volcanic eruptions.....

[link to redcrosschat.org (secure)]

----

Jesus said there will be disasters in diverse places (Matt 24 & Rev 6)
b4its2l8

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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
We can say with certainty these aren't the elect:

Breitbart:

Illinois Attorney General Accuses Catholic Church of Withholding Names of 500 Priests Accused of Sex Abuse...

Falls under the category - evil abounds...
 Quoting: b4its2l8


The book of Enoch gives some insight as to who the elect may be in the first chapter:

Enoch 1:1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation

---

First and foremost they will be here during the tribulation
b4its2l8

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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
We can say with certainty these aren't the elect:

Breitbart:

Illinois Attorney General Accuses Catholic Church of Withholding Names of 500 Priests Accused of Sex Abuse...

Falls under the category - evil abounds...
 Quoting: b4its2l8


The book of Enoch gives some insight as to who the elect may be in the first chapter:

Enoch 1:1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation

---

First and foremost they will be here during the tribulation
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation...

30..then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

----

And it appears from Matthew 24 - the elect will be gathered "after the great tribulation" from everywhere - not just Israel.

Also, apparently they will be here for the duration
b4its2l8

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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
We can say with certainty these aren't the elect:

Breitbart:

Illinois Attorney General Accuses Catholic Church of Withholding Names of 500 Priests Accused of Sex Abuse...

Falls under the category - evil abounds...
 Quoting: b4its2l8


The book of Enoch gives some insight as to who the elect may be in the first chapter:

Enoch 1:1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation

---

First and foremost they will be here during the tribulation
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation...

30..then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

----

And it appears from Matthew 24 - the elect will be gathered "after the great tribulation" from everywhere - not just Israel.

Also, apparently they will be here for the duration
 Quoting: b4its2l8


The Purpose of The Elect

b4its2l8

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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
We can say with certainty these aren't the elect:

Breitbart:

Illinois Attorney General Accuses Catholic Church of Withholding Names of 500 Priests Accused of Sex Abuse...

Falls under the category - evil abounds...
 Quoting: b4its2l8


The book of Enoch gives some insight as to who the elect may be in the first chapter:

Enoch 1:1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation

---

First and foremost they will be here during the tribulation
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation...

30..then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

----

And it appears from Matthew 24 - the elect will be gathered "after the great tribulation" from everywhere - not just Israel.

Also, apparently they will be here for the duration
 Quoting: b4its2l8


The Purpose of The Elect


 Quoting: b4its2l8


Are the elect the 144k witnesses of Revelation?

Can we tell by counting their numbers?

Does the bible tell us how many there are?
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...


The book of Enoch gives some insight as to who the elect may be in the first chapter:

Enoch 1:1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation

---

First and foremost they will be here during the tribulation
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation...

30..then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

----

And it appears from Matthew 24 - the elect will be gathered "after the great tribulation" from everywhere - not just Israel.

Also, apparently they will be here for the duration
 Quoting: b4its2l8


The Purpose of The Elect


 Quoting: b4its2l8


Are the elect the 144k witnesses of Revelation?

Can we tell by counting their numbers?

Does the bible tell us how many there are?
 Quoting: b4its2l8


We get this from Enoch chapter 2:

Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him. (2)

---

Chapter 40:

1 After this I beheld thousands of thousands, and myriads of myriads, and an infinite number of people, standing before the Lord of spirits.

3 Then I heard the voices of those upon the four sides magnifying the Lord of glory.

4 The first voice blessed the Lord of spirits for ever and for ever.

5 The second voice I heard blessing the Elect One, and the elect who suffer on account of the Lord of spirits.
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...


Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation...

30..then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

----

And it appears from Matthew 24 - the elect will be gathered "after the great tribulation" from everywhere - not just Israel.

Also, apparently they will be here for the duration
 Quoting: b4its2l8


The Purpose of The Elect


 Quoting: b4its2l8


Are the elect the 144k witnesses of Revelation?

Can we tell by counting their numbers?

Does the bible tell us how many there are?
 Quoting: b4its2l8


We get this from Enoch chapter 2:

Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him. (2)

---

Chapter 40:

1 After this I beheld thousands of thousands, and myriads of myriads, and an infinite number of people, standing before the Lord of spirits.

3 Then I heard the voices of those upon the four sides magnifying the Lord of glory.

4 The first voice blessed the Lord of spirits for ever and for ever.

5 The second voice I heard blessing the Elect One, and the elect who suffer on account of the Lord of spirits.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Are the elect and the saints the same group?

The answer we have here is - Yes:

Small Excerpt:

The Elect

The church is the elect, and so is believing Israel. We just don’t have the benefit of foreknowledge to know what Jews will accept Christ yet. This is where time has a big part in interpreting Bible prophecy. We have scriptures talking about how there is no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ. However as I mentioned earlier, Israel will be blinded as they have been since the triumphal entry almost 2,000 years ago. Romans 11:25 National Israel will not come to Christ until after the “fullness of the Gentiles.”...

The main scripture that brings confusion is Matthew 24:15-22. It says that these days of great tribulation will be shortened for the “elect’s” sake. This leads many people to focus this passage on Christians because Israel doesn’t accept Christ. However, we must remember that Christ also said that “all of Israel shall be saved.” Romans 11:25-26 Therefore, even those not taken in the harpazo of the bride are still “elect,” including all of Israel....

[link to www.watchmanbiblestudy.com]
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Truly evil men:

Jude 1:3...turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Jude reminds them of what happens to people who are ungodly:

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Even the fallen angels don't escape God's wrath:

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate...
 Quoting: b4its2l8


God has prepared and reserved a 'special' place for the fallen angels:

Jude 1:6....but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day
 Quoting: b4its2l8


You can't move along very far in the bible without generating some controversy.

Jude is no different

Once again we find ourselves steep in controversy (again) with the Book of Enoch -
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...


Jude reminds them of what happens to people who are ungodly:

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Even the fallen angels don't escape God's wrath:

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate...
 Quoting: b4its2l8


God has prepared and reserved a 'special' place for the fallen angels:

Jude 1:6....but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day
 Quoting: b4its2l8


You can't move along very far in the bible without generating some controversy.

Jude is no different

Once again we find ourselves steep in controversy (again) with the Book of Enoch -


I've already posted this...

i. Genesis 6:1-2 is a controversial passage all on its own. It says, Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took w
 Quoting: b4its2l8
themselves of all whom they chose. There is a significant debate as to if the sons of God are angelic beings, or just another way of saying “followers of God” among humans. Jude helps us answer this question.

----

Actually, I think Enoch answers this question with more detail than Jude:

Enoch 7:1 It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

2And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
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Last post mangled

Here it is again:

I've already posted this...

i. Genesis 6:1-2 is a controversial passage all on its own. It says, Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. There is a significant debate as to if the sons of God are angelic beings, or just another way of saying “followers of God” among humans. Jude helps us answer this question.

----

Actually, I think Enoch answers this question with a little more detail than Jude:

Enoch 7:1 It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

2And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
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Last post mangled

Here it is again:

I've already posted this...

i. Genesis 6:1-2 is a controversial passage all on its own. It says, Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. There is a significant debate as to if the sons of God are angelic beings, or just another way of saying “followers of God” among humans. Jude helps us answer this question.

----

Actually, I think Enoch answers this question with a little more detail than Jude:

Enoch 7:1 It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

2 And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


I think it's pretty clear from Enoch and Jude - These angelic beings are not human:

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
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Last post mangled

Here it is again:

I've already posted this...

i. Genesis 6:1-2 is a controversial passage all on its own. It says, Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. There is a significant debate as to if the sons of God are angelic beings, or just another way of saying “followers of God” among humans. Jude helps us answer this question.

----

Actually, I think Enoch answers this question with a little more detail than Jude:

Enoch 7:1 It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

2 And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


I think it's pretty clear from Enoch and Jude - These angelic beings are not human:

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


But here they are human:

Marcellus Kik has written that "the Greek term aggelos does not always refer to such heavenly spirits. The meaning of the term must be determined by the context. In the following passages the Greek word aggelos is translated by the word messenger: Matthew 11:10; Luke 7:24, 27; 9:52; Mark 1:2; James 2:25. John the Baptist is called an aggelos. The disciples of John the Baptist were also described as angels. And this was true in regard to the disciples of Christ. In James 2:25 the messengers sent to Rahab were called `angels.’" [J. Marcellus Kik, An Eschatology of Victory (Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian & Reformed, 1971), p. 147f.]

David Chilton makes the same point, showing that in the Old Testament the word mal’ak, often translated "angel," is used for human prophets in 2 Chronicles 36:15-16; Haggai 1:13; and Malachi 3:1. The "angels of the seven churches" in Revelation are surely human leaders, since it makes no sense to write a letter to a spirit angel....

[link to www.biblicalhorizons.com]
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
Rev 8:8 - 1/3 of the oceans will die:

From The Big Wobble:

Thousands stung by a jellyfish invasion in Queensland Australia in yet another case of the 21st-century indicator to the demise of our oceans
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Last post mangled

Here it is again:

I've already posted this...

i. Genesis 6:1-2 is a controversial passage all on its own. It says, Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. There is a significant debate as to if the sons of God are angelic beings, or just another way of saying “followers of God” among humans. Jude helps us answer this question.

----

Actually, I think Enoch answers this question with a little more detail than Jude:

Enoch 7:1 It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

2 And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


I think it's pretty clear from Enoch and Jude - These angelic beings are not human:

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


But here they are human:

Marcellus Kik has written that "the Greek term aggelos does not always refer to such heavenly spirits. The meaning of the term must be determined by the context. In the following passages the Greek word aggelos is translated by the word messenger: Matthew 11:10; Luke 7:24, 27; 9:52; Mark 1:2; James 2:25. John the Baptist is called an aggelos. The disciples of John the Baptist were also described as angels. And this was true in regard to the disciples of Christ. In James 2:25 the messengers sent to Rahab were called `angels.’" [J. Marcellus Kik, An Eschatology of Victory (Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian & Reformed, 1971), p. 147f.]

David Chilton makes the same point, showing that in the Old Testament the word mal’ak, often translated "angel," is used for human prophets in 2 Chronicles 36:15-16; Haggai 1:13; and Malachi 3:1. The "angels of the seven churches" in Revelation are surely human leaders, since it makes no sense to write a letter to a spirit angel....

[link to www.biblicalhorizons.com]
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

----

We now get into the why they will be placed in chains until the great day of judgement
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Big Sign?

Biblical Proportions: Mecca’s Grand Mosque Plagued By Swarms Of Locusts

The pilgrimage hub of Saudi Arabia got hit with a plague of biblical proportions earlier this week when a massive swarm of locusts descended upon the Islamic holy site of Mecca.

In several videos posted online, locusts were seen crawling around Mecca’s grand mosque, creeping their way across the stone slabs, providing a small snapshot of what Pharaoh saw during the Passover thousands of years ago. One particularly searing video showed a cloud of flying pests descending their way over the wall, illuminated by the towering floodlights....

[link to conservativefighters.com]
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Last post mangled

Here it is again:

I've already posted this...

i. Genesis 6:1-2 is a controversial passage all on its own. It says, Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. There is a significant debate as to if the sons of God are angelic beings, or just another way of saying “followers of God” among humans. Jude helps us answer this question.

----

Actually, I think Enoch answers this question with a little more detail than Jude:

Enoch 7:1 It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

2 And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


I think it's pretty clear from Enoch and Jude - These angelic beings are not human:

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


But here they are human:

Marcellus Kik has written that "the Greek term aggelos does not always refer to such heavenly spirits. The meaning of the term must be determined by the context. In the following passages the Greek word aggelos is translated by the word messenger: Matthew 11:10; Luke 7:24, 27; 9:52; Mark 1:2; James 2:25. John the Baptist is called an aggelos. The disciples of John the Baptist were also described as angels. And this was true in regard to the disciples of Christ. In James 2:25 the messengers sent to Rahab were called `angels.’" [J. Marcellus Kik, An Eschatology of Victory (Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian & Reformed, 1971), p. 147f.]

David Chilton makes the same point, showing that in the Old Testament the word mal’ak, often translated "angel," is used for human prophets in 2 Chronicles 36:15-16; Haggai 1:13; and Malachi 3:1. The "angels of the seven churches" in Revelation are surely human leaders, since it makes no sense to write a letter to a spirit angel....

[link to www.biblicalhorizons.com]
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

----

We now get into the why they will be placed in chains until the great day of judgement
 Quoting: b4its2l8


There is very much conjecture over the meaning of strange flesh

Here's one opinion:

What Does Jude 7 Mean By “Other Flesh”?

There is a case to be that Jude’s comment about sarkos heteras (“other flesh”) is a reference to sex with angels not sex with other men. Verse 6 is likely an allusion to the sin of the angels in Genesis 6:1-4, which according to Jewish tradition, involved angels having sex with the daughters of men....

[link to www.thegospelcoalition.org (secure)]
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Re: All prophecies the bible says will happen in End Times are happening or almost completed at present
...


I think it's pretty clear from Enoch and Jude - These angelic beings are not human:

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
 Quoting: b4its2l8


But here they are human:

Marcellus Kik has written that "the Greek term aggelos does not always refer to such heavenly spirits. The meaning of the term must be determined by the context. In the following passages the Greek word aggelos is translated by the word messenger: Matthew 11:10; Luke 7:24, 27; 9:52; Mark 1:2; James 2:25. John the Baptist is called an aggelos. The disciples of John the Baptist were also described as angels. And this was true in regard to the disciples of Christ. In James 2:25 the messengers sent to Rahab were called `angels.’" [J. Marcellus Kik, An Eschatology of Victory (Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian & Reformed, 1971), p. 147f.]

David Chilton makes the same point, showing that in the Old Testament the word mal’ak, often translated "angel," is used for human prophets in 2 Chronicles 36:15-16; Haggai 1:13; and Malachi 3:1. The "angels of the seven churches" in Revelation are surely human leaders, since it makes no sense to write a letter to a spirit angel....

[link to www.biblicalhorizons.com]
 Quoting: b4its2l8


Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

----

We now get into the why they will be placed in chains until the great day of judgement
 Quoting: b4its2l8


There is very much conjecture over the meaning of strange flesh

Here's one opinion:

What Does Jude 7 Mean By “Other Flesh”?

There is a case to be that Jude’s comment about sarkos heteras (“other flesh”) is a reference to sex with angels not sex with other men. Verse 6 is likely an allusion to the sin of the angels in Genesis 6:1-4, which according to Jewish tradition, involved angels having sex with the daughters of men....

[link to www.thegospelcoalition.org (secure)]
 Quoting: b4its2l8


What we learn in Jude is these angelic beings were anything but angels - or whatever our concept of what angels should be.

Somehow they were corrupted

By satan or whatever

But they became what we know today as 'fallen angels'.