Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear | |
emerald eye (OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 39877195 United States 10/12/2014 11:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear I don't know if this was previously posted, but if it was I believe it deserves to be posted again in light of current events. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
emerald eye (OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 39877195 United States 10/12/2014 11:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear I thought about adding this to one of the pinned threads so that more people would see it, but I didn't want to hi-jack anyone's thread, but I hope this doesn't get buried in GLP. I am printing this article and taking it to a group of hospital administrators tomorrow morning. [link to www.cidrap.umn.edu] Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
emerald eye (OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 39877195 United States 10/12/2014 11:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear I changed the title, I think the word "math" scares too many people. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Psi Guy User ID: 26915826 United States 10/12/2014 11:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear important info hon...thanks "If you keep running into brick walls you might be going in the wrong direction...duh!" Psi Guy "Don't chase the dream, just live it instead." Psi Guy "If one note is off, eventually it will destroy the whole symphony." Walter-Prometheus" The road to freedom lies not through mysteries or occult performances, but through the intelligent use of natural forces and laws. 'If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.' Nikola Tesla "The Upholder of the Cycles which supports the whole of Life, is water. In every drop of water dwells the Godhead, whom we all serve; there also dwells Life, the Soul of the "First" substance - Water - whose boundaries and banks are the capillaries that guide it and in which it circulates" -- Viktor Schauberger |
emerald eye (OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 39877195 United States 10/12/2014 11:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear Thanks Psi, I always love your threads, and your avatar! I need to check your threads, but do you have any comments to make about this whole thing? Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 63246495 United States 10/12/2014 11:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 56867035 United States 10/13/2014 12:02 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
emerald eye (OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 39877195 United States 10/13/2014 12:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear Oh wow, thanks for the pin. While this information is mainly directed at health care workers, it also applies to everyone and anyone in close contact with infected patients. This is a very important article that puts to bed the old ideas of droplet, aerosol and aersolized. Here is the short version for those who do not wish to read the whole thing: "Editor's Note: Today's commentary was submitted to CIDRAP by the authors, who are national experts on respiratory protection and infectious disease transmission. In May they published a similar commentary on MERS-CoV. Dr Brosseau is a Professor and Dr Jones an Assistant Professor in the School of Public Health, Division of Environmental and Occupational Health Sciences, at the University of Illinois at Chicago." "Medical and infection control professionals have relied for years on a paradigm for aerosol transmission of infectious diseases based on very outmoded research and an overly simplistic interpretation of the data. In the 1940s and 50s, William F. Wells and other "aerobiologists" employed now significantly out-of-date sampling methods (eg, settling plates) and very blunt analytic approaches (eg, cell culturing) to understand the movement of bacterial aerosols in healthcare and other settings. Their work, though groundbreaking at the time, provides a very incomplete picture." "It's time to abandon the old paradigm of three mutually exclusive transmission routes for a new one that considers the full range of particle sizes both near and far from a source. In addition, we need to factor in other important features of infectivity, such as the ability of a pathogen to remain viable in air at room temperature and humidity and the likelihood that systemic disease can result from deposition of infectious particles in the respiratory system or their transfer to the gastrointestinal tract." We recommend using "aerosol transmissible" rather than the outmoded terms "droplet" or "airborne" to describe pathogens that can transmit disease via infectious particles suspended in air." "To summarize, for the following reasons we believe that Ebola could be an opportunistic aerosol-transmissible disease requiring adequate respiratory protection: Patients and procedures generate aerosols, and Ebola virus remains viable in aerosols for up to 90 minutes. All sizes of aerosol particles are easily inhaled both near to and far from the patient." "Risk level and working conditions suggest that a PAPR (powered air-purifying respirator) will be more protective, cost-effective, and comfortable than an N95 filtering facepiece respirator." [link to www.cidrap.umn.edu] Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/13/2014 12:07 AM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 59439170 United States 10/13/2014 12:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear It is awful that they are not giving health care workers the correct equipment. All the hcws should go on strike if they balk at giving you what you need. No one could blame anyone for that. I knew something was screwy with the story of the nurse that caught ebola in TX. Who would be lax in taking off equipment when they know it could mean their life. Frankly, when this gets bad enough, most of us will be left on our own because the govt. can't get their shit together on ANYTHING. They are never prepared for a damned thing, ever, so frustrated. If you guys have to strike because of this, I will march with you and I am not in healthcare work. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 61700417 United States 10/13/2014 12:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear |
emerald eye (OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 39877195 United States 10/13/2014 12:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear It is awful that they are not giving health care workers the correct equipment. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59439170 All the hcws should go on strike if they balk at giving you what you need. No one could blame anyone for that. I knew something was screwy with the story of the nurse that caught ebola in TX. Who would be lax in taking off equipment when they know it could mean their life. Frankly, when this gets bad enough, most of us will be left on our own because the govt. can't get their shit together on ANYTHING. They are never prepared for a damned thing, ever, so frustrated. If you guys have to strike because of this, I will march with you and I am not in healthcare work. Thanks, I sincerely appreciate your comments. I want health care workers to realize that they can be more properly protected, and to be vocal and proactive about this. Everyone print this article and take it to your hospital administrators and infectious disease departments, fire departments, ambulance companies, ect. The CDC won't use anything less than a BLS4 suit when dealing with Ebola, and now they expect us to "make do". The last thing that we need right now is a HCW strike, but we do need proper protection, and to stop blaming the health care workers who become infected listing to the advice generally given without further scrutiny. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
my 2 cents User ID: 60779794 Canada 10/13/2014 12:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear Great research OP Patriotism is supporting your country always -- and your government when they deserve it. Mark Twain Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords. -Benjamin Franklin |
emerald eye (OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 39877195 United States 10/13/2014 12:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear The equipment that they are talking about costs around $500-2,000. How can our safety not be worth that? [link to www.amazon.com] [link to www.amazon.com] In directly treating Ebola patients, I am not sure that we should not be wearing those BSL-4 bubble suits. Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/13/2014 12:20 AM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Earl of Grey User ID: 63601926 United States 10/13/2014 12:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear I totally agree with you, Ebola reston ( a type which only is lethal to monkeys) was proven to be transmissible by aerosol at very low doses and actually there were cases of 6 human handlers being infected with this virus by aerosol transmission. [ [link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] Reston genetically is very similar to ebola zaire. Also, if ebola zaire is not transmissible by aerosol transmission then why is it classified as a biosafety level 4 disease? (“for work with dangerous and exotic agents that pose a high individual risk of aerosol- transmitted laboratory infections”) see slide 10, [link to www.cdc.gov] Take a look at what the CDC does when they have to be in contact with ebola [link to www.cdc.gov] |
GUAM USA User ID: 43153408 Guam 10/13/2014 12:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
GUAM USA User ID: 43153408 Guam 10/13/2014 12:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear It is awful that they are not giving health care workers the correct equipment. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59439170 All the hcws should go on strike if they balk at giving you what you need. No one could blame anyone for that. I knew something was screwy with the story of the nurse that caught ebola in TX. Who would be lax in taking off equipment when they know it could mean their life. Frankly, when this gets bad enough, most of us will be left on our own because the govt. can't get their shit together on ANYTHING. They are never prepared for a damned thing, ever, so frustrated. If you guys have to strike because of this, I will march with you and I am not in healthcare work. Thanks, I sincerely appreciate your comments. I want health care workers to realize that they can be more properly protected, and to be vocal and proactive about this. Everyone print this article and take it to your hospital administrators and infectious disease departments, fire departments, ambulance companies, ect. The CDC won't use anything less than a BLS4 suit when dealing with Ebola, and now they expect us to "make do". The last thing that we need right now is a HCW strike, but we do need proper protection, and to stop blaming the health care workers who become infected listing to the advice generally given without further scrutiny. Great Thread OP!! |
FLUFFY PUPPY User ID: 11115621 United States 10/13/2014 12:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear Hospitals are 'following CDC' guidelines is the problem. I serious think this thing is aerosolized and can get through the HAZMAT protection the CDC guidelines require. Healthcare workers should demand to be using a higher level of HAZMAT protection when dealing with ANY suspected infected patient. Respirators, not just face masks. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 61201047 United States 10/13/2014 12:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
PIR User ID: 54058774 United States 10/13/2014 12:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 59439170 United States 10/13/2014 12:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear The equipment that they are talking about costs around $500-2,000. How can our safety not be worth that? Quoting: emerald eye [link to www.amazon.com] [link to www.amazon.com] In directly treating Ebola patients, I am not sure that we should not be wearing those BSL-4 bubble suits. Your safety is worth MUCH MORE than that. But, if they do the right thing, it won't cost nearly as much because they don't have to buy retail and they can negotiate prices on bulk quantity purchases. If they can afford billions of bullets and the war machine, then they can damn well spring for this. The govt. should be in talks (or whoever has to pay for this) directly with the manufacturers and they should be starting production now. But... ya know. |
LongrodVonHugendong User ID: 63894219 United States 10/13/2014 12:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 54210452 Australia 10/13/2014 12:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear you have to consider how much infection (all infections)is caused by lack of protocol in health care . when i was waiting for an operation, my drs major concern was during my hospital stay, i would contract mrsa due to non observation of protocol (the most common way that bacteria is spread) it made me highly observant of what nurses did when i was in hospital, and i watched them break protocol on a continous basis. they had absolutely no regard for it whatsoever much of the time. this was in one of the best private hospitals in the country, not some public er , which all undoubtedly break protocol continuously. to stop it, hospital staffing would have to be increased massively. protocol to stop mrsa spread was 15 days off work after mrsa was detected on nurses skin. in actuality, nurses were rarely ever tested, and hardly ever put on leave because there is no one to replace them. one nurse, a british backpacker, moped around whining she was supposed to be on holiday and didn't want to work, but was being called in daily due to short staffing. she would have been delighted to be fired for not observing protocol and tried every day without success. basically, the way hospitals are staffed has led to breach of protocol as an entrenched behaviour. |
emerald eye (OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 39877195 United States 10/13/2014 12:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear you have to consider how much infection (all infections)is caused by lack of protocol in health care . Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54210452 when i was waiting for an operation, my drs major concern was during my hospital stay, i would contract mrsa due to non observation of protocol (the most common way that bacteria is spread) it made me highly observant of what nurses did when i was in hospital, and i watched them break protocol on a continous basis. they had absolutely no regard for it whatsoever much of the time. this was in one of the best private hospitals in the country, not some public er , which all undoubtedly break protocol continuously. to stop it, hospital staffing would have to be increased massively. protocol to stop mrsa spread was 15 days off work after mrsa was detected on nurses skin. in actuality, nurses were rarely ever tested, and hardly ever put on leave because there is no one to replace them. one nurse, a british backpacker, moped around whining she was supposed to be on holiday and didn't want to work, but was being called in daily due to short staffing. she would have been delighted to be fired for not observing protocol and tried every day without success. basically, the way hospitals are staffed has led to breach of protocol as an entrenched behaviour. Of course mistakes may be made, but it doesn't change the fact that without proper respiratory protection, health care workers and many others are at unnecessary increased risk. This includes other patients, because sick health care workers can and do transmit disease. This virus is just too lethal to make the kinds of arbitrary lapses that are currently being made. I believe that any health care worker (including ambulance, fire department and medic personnel) who are working around anyone even possibly infected with the Ebola virus should be wearing a respirator. This is also for the safety of the general public. Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/13/2014 12:35 AM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
TripleH User ID: 48782165 United States 10/13/2014 12:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
emerald eye (OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 39877195 United States 10/13/2014 12:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear While in principle I agree with you, hospitals in our society are a necessary evil. If nothing else, hospitals will become inundated by the "worried well" I think it is good advice to stay home if you are not really sick. I have been working on a list of herbal supplements to boost the immune system for family and friends. I posted some of this on a previous thread. I will try to do a thread on this when I have it completed, it is a work in progress, and is requiring many hours of research. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1618643 United States 10/13/2014 12:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 27249705 United States 10/13/2014 12:43 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear for other professionals who read the deathcare 'insurance' and understand the nature of aerosolized viruses that have almost zero survival exit the field, treat when you must,as it worsens... highest precautions remember morbidity if 100% dying...why mess around with catching it??? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3563393 United States 10/13/2014 12:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear Word is out... Ebola Victims will be shot & Cremated. All Scientific, Mathematics, Statistical, vector projections indicate this as the most prudent effective method of treating this contagion. Any other method results in horrific loss of innocent lives, and further spread of the disease. . |
LiquifiedKidney User ID: 50093112 United States 10/13/2014 12:47 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear I totally agree with you, Quoting: Earl of Grey Ebola reston ( a type which only is lethal to monkeys) was proven to be transmissible by aerosol at very low doses and actually there were cases of 6 human handlers being infected with this virus by aerosol transmission. [ [link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] Reston genetically is very similar to ebola zaire. Also, if ebola zaire is not transmissible by aerosol transmission then why is it classified as a biosafety level 4 disease? (“for work with dangerous and exotic agents that pose a high individual risk of aerosol- transmitted laboratory infections”) see slide 10, [link to www.cdc.gov] Take a look at what the CDC does when they have to be in contact with ebola [link to www.cdc.gov] Read the steps that must be implemented in a BSL-4 lab, including insect and pest control, now think of Duncan's apartment, with possible roaches scurrying at night through his ebola mattress, and maybe rats licking at his vomitus, then right on to the next guy's apartment and walking over dishes and sinks... Think of all the possible ways we are screwed. The pressure washing of his vomit from the sidewalk. Ugggg. |
emerald eye (OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 39877195 United States 10/13/2014 12:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear I've been reading where you at least need a N100 or P100 respirator. Does this mean that those would not be sufficient? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1618643 In general for a very tiny and a very lethal virus I want the best protection possible for all of us, but especially those who put themselves at risk by caring for patients, in close contact situations. In my opinion, while certainly better than nothing, the N95 and N100 masks are too dependent on fit and lack of air leaks and other mechanical factors that can compromise their effectiveness. Here are a couple of links that explain the differences in greater detail. [link to nycosh.org] [link to www.osha.gov (secure)] Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |