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This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 08:21 AM
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This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond accused Mr Putin of “acting like some mid-20th century tyrant."

"Don’t make it sound like that is an outrageous thing for us to demand,” Mr Hammond said. “This man has sent troops across an international border and occupied another country’s territory acting like some mid-20th century tyrant (referring to Russia's actions in Ukraine, and how any peace agreements will involve Russia leaving Crimea.)

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

From Wiki:

"Ukraine became gripped by unrest when President Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign an association agreement with the European Union on 21 November 2013.[65] An organized political movement known as 'Euromaidan' demanded closer ties with the European Union, and the ousting of Yanukovych.[66] This movement was ultimately successful, culminating in the February 2014 revolution, which removed Yanukovych and his government.[67] However, some people in largely Russophone eastern and southern Ukraine, the traditional bases of support for Yanukovych and his Party of the Regions, did not approve of the revolution, and began to protest in favour of closer ties with Russia. Various demonstrations were held in Crimea in favour of leaving Ukraine and accession to the Russian Federation, leading to the 2014 Crimean crisis."
_________________________________________________________

There was an uprising in Ukraine after the previous president refused to sign an agreement with the EU. The citizens of Kiev rose up and overthrew the government. Some of the protests turned violent when both protesters and police started getting killed in the streets.

Crimea and Eastern Ukraine have a high population of people who identify themselves as being Russian--they live in Crimea / Ukraine, but their blood is Russian. When the bullets started flying and it appeared this revolution was going violent and it may potentially affect innocent citizens, Russia held a vote and democratically decided to put military in Crimea TO SECURE IT, not to conquer it.

The citizens of Crimea voted to keep them there.

Some people are accusing the US, the CIA and other foreign groups as being the instigators in Ukraine. For some reason we want to fight against Russia.

Now, we are calling Putin "Hitler" for doing something that any leader who cares about his citizens would do.

The US is halfway around the world telling other nuclear armed countries to fall in line, and they're not doing it because we're the instigators.

Our country will continue to get away with this until we stop them.

Not trying to sound paranoid, because I don't fear this scenario, but there are talks happening between Ukraine, Russia, Germany and France. The leaders of these countries have already acknowledged that if they can't make an agreement, "the alternative is war."

"If we don't manage to find not just a compromise but a lasting peace agreement, we know perfectly well what the scenario will be. It has a name, it's called war.""
French President Holland

[link to www.newstalk.com]

If our government is responsible for this, we are in effect allowing it to happen. Technically (legally,) we are the government. The government is supposed to be made up by the people, for the people. No one I talk to in person supports the actions our country seems to be taking.

We are the ones who have to fight and die in these wars, shouldn't we have a say in them?
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 08:24 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
Crimea and Eastern Ukraine have a high population of people who identify themselves as being Russian--they live in Crimea / Ukraine, but their blood is Russian. When the bullets started flying and it appeared this revolution was going violent and it may potentially affect innocent citizens, Russia held a vote and democratically decided to put military in Crimea TO SECURE IT, not to conquer it.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


That never actually happened. You're either confused or knowingly lying. The only referendum happened after the Russians seized Crimea militarily.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 08:35 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
Crimea and Eastern Ukraine have a high population of people who identify themselves as being Russian--they live in Crimea / Ukraine, but their blood is Russian. When the bullets started flying and it appeared this revolution was going violent and it may potentially affect innocent citizens, Russia held a vote and democratically decided to put military in Crimea TO SECURE IT, not to conquer it.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


That never actually happened. You're either confused or knowingly lying. The only referendum happened after the Russians seized Crimea militarily.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47504717


Okay, so if there is a violent bloodbath happening outside your house, do you hold a vote to stop it first, or do you go ahead and stop it?

IF your family is getting slaughtered in the streets, do you ask the person who rescues you if there was a vote?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 08:36 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
They put troops there to secure a volatile area, then when the international community got outraged, they held a vote.

Happy?

It doesn't change much.

If we were the ones who instigated the unrest in the first place, doesn't that mean we technically were the ones who invaded it first?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 08:40 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
By the way, I love this country, I served in the US Army, and I know people who have died wearing the uniform.

When was the last time the US voted to use force and succeeded? You know, as opposed to just sending military force wherever we want.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 08:46 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
So you're saying that Russia had no intention of taking Crimea for themselves... but somehow accidentally annexed it anyway? How does that happen?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 08:50 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
So you're saying that Russia had no intention of taking Crimea for themselves... but somehow accidentally annexed it anyway? How does that happen?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47504717


Kind of like how we didn't want Iraq but occupied it for 15 or so years.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 08:51 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
So you're saying that Russia had no intention of taking Crimea for themselves... but somehow accidentally annexed it anyway? How does that happen?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47504717


Kind of like how we didn't want Iraq but occupied it for 15 or so years.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


Did you annex it and make it a state of the USA?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 08:56 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
I'm saying it is the actions of the US and EU that caused the bullets to start killing citizens in Ukraine, and Russia recognized what was happening-- Western intelligence agencies were attempting to destabilize Ukraine and install their own friendly government.

Would any sovereign country allow such a thing to happen? What if this shit happened to your country?

It's one thing for the population of a country to legitimately have protests, it's another thing when it's funded and supported by foreign interests.

Due to these unlawful actions, Russia drew a line in the sand. The people of eastern Ukraine and Crimea support this.

At what point does any of this affect the US?

By the way, I don't see any bullets or violence happening in Crimea, which is the focus of "Russia's evil actions." Why is this, if the place is so disputed? You would think that the population would be viciously fighting the occupiers, right?

Iraq and Afghanistan are great examples of populations fighting an insurgency against a superior occupying force. Why is this not happening in Crimea?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 08:57 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
So you're saying that Russia had no intention of taking Crimea for themselves... but somehow accidentally annexed it anyway? How does that happen?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47504717


Kind of like how we didn't want Iraq but occupied it for 15 or so years.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


Did you annex it and make it a state of the USA?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47504717


Does any of this BS affect you in Australia?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 09:01 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
By the way, it appears that since we are exposed to western media propaganda, we are going to get certain versions of the story.

You speak of "Annexation" of Crimea.

According to Wiki, and we know how Wiki can be, Putin disputes the "annex" label.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

[link to rt.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 09:04 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
When you look back to 2012, you have President Viktor Yanukovych admitting that Ms Tymoshenko's case was hindering his and Ukraines ambitions to join the EU, which even tempered Ukraines hopes during Euro2012..

President Viktor Yanukovych was moving towards the EU until the Russians came up with another deal, Ms Tymoshenko's case put a major dampener on things with the EU so it opened the door to Russia... if you want timelines to this then you'll have to extend them, do you really think the EU association agreement just landed on Yanukovychs desk out of the blue?

So, in part the Russians interfered in that process, but also the EU interferring in Ms Tymoshenko's case which has since snowballed into what is probably best at least to be described as a civil war, if you want to call the EU wrong for associating with Ukraine, that's fine, but Yanukovych was part of that deal, and holds some responsibility as that ascension part of his ambitions.. nothing can change that.

If he has felt so strongly in favour of Russia he would not have played that game, he would not have put the Ukraine in that situation and the EU would not have had sight of an association deal with Ukraine..

But we are where we are with this, in the midst of a civil war that has the scope and capacity to turn into a global conflict..

We where so close to having a peaceful Europe, Russia moving closer to the EU, and even last year there where Russian officials who where hoping that at sometime in the near future British troops would be carrying Russian weapons into battle..

I can't say I see any high ground to be had in this affair... but that is just my humble opinion.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 09:05 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
5* and pin request for truth.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 09:11 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
It's all part of the plan by the elites to teach you that borders and treaties are unimportant when it comes to Khazarian rule over the world.

Once borders are declared null and void and the powers can invade then all is lost.

Your countrys borders are no less important than the borders of the 4 walls of your home.

Russia declaring it has the only right of validating borders will not stop if successful in Ukraine.

Russias declaration of its neighbors borders invalidity is exactly the same process and exactly the same groups involved as those claiming that Americans borders are subject to change.
In fact Russia is a major source of military power and political sponsorship and encouragement of each and every country that's declared American and European borders subject to change.

To support Russia is to support Russia declaring you a nazi and taking your home too.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 09:12 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
So you're saying that Russia had no intention of taking Crimea for themselves... but somehow accidentally annexed it anyway? How does that happen?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47504717


Kind of like how we didn't want Iraq but occupied it for 15 or so years.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


Did you annex it and make it a state of the USA?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47504717


Does any of this BS affect you in Australia?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


Is any of it affecting you in America?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 09:13 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
When you look back to 2012, you have President Viktor Yanukovych admitting that Ms Tymoshenko's case was hindering his and Ukraines ambitions to join the EU, which even tempered Ukraines hopes during Euro2012..

President Viktor Yanukovych was moving towards the EU until the Russians came up with another deal, Ms Tymoshenko's case put a major dampener on things with the EU so it opened the door to Russia... if you want timelines to this then you'll have to extend them, do you really think the EU association agreement just landed on Yanukovychs desk out of the blue?

So, in part the Russians interfered in that process, but also the EU interferring in Ms Tymoshenko's case which has since snowballed into what is probably best at least to be described as a civil war, if you want to call the EU wrong for associating with Ukraine, that's fine, but Yanukovych was part of that deal, and holds some responsibility as that ascension part of his ambitions.. nothing can change that.

If he has felt so strongly in favour of Russia he would not have played that game, he would not have put the Ukraine in that situation and the EU would not have had sight of an association deal with Ukraine..

But we are where we are with this, in the midst of a civil war that has the scope and capacity to turn into a global conflict..

We where so close to having a peaceful Europe, Russia moving closer to the EU, and even last year there where Russian officials who where hoping that at sometime in the near future British troops would be carrying Russian weapons into battle..

I can't say I see any high ground to be had in this affair... but that is just my humble opinion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67776066


My opinion is that all of this unrest is due to BRICS and their economic actions.

All of the unrest in that area are escalations of war directly relating to their threatening of the US dollar's world dominance.

This is my opinion, and it is also my opinion that if they are legitimately and democratically working together to affect the market in legal ways, there is nothing we should do about it other than fixing our broken economic model.

However, those who are in charge of this country cannot accept the fact that the dollar will no longer be the reserve currency, and that their NWO plans have failed.

We can speculate all we like as intellectuals, but as we speculate, we march to war at the same time.

It's one thing for us to analyze who did what and who is wrong and why, but once the US takes a stance regarding military action halfway around the world, it might be time for us to go from speculating to actually and outwardly speaking out against these actions.

ESPECIALLY if all of this is over the dollar (again.)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 09:13 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
...


Kind of like how we didn't want Iraq but occupied it for 15 or so years.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


Did you annex it and make it a state of the USA?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47504717


Does any of this BS affect you in Australia?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


Is any of it affecting you in America?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47504717


It will if we deploy troops and resources there, which is what I'm speaking out against.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 09:15 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
All Europe has but token armed forces because they prefer peace and productivity leading to prosperity.

Russia has but token productivity and peace and instead has chosen to build an invasion army with its resources and simply confiscate the wealth of the west.

American is in Europe because it was invited and the public prospered.
Russia had to invade Europe with it's military might and it left a wasteland.

Now Russia wants back in because they cannot survive within their own borders without monopolizing trade.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 09:15 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
It's all part of the plan by the elites to teach you that borders and treaties are unimportant when it comes to Khazarian rule over the world.

Once borders are declared null and void and the powers can invade then all is lost.

Your countrys borders are no less important than the borders of the 4 walls of your home.

Russia declaring it has the only right of validating borders will not stop if successful in Ukraine.

Russias declaration of its neighbors borders invalidity is exactly the same process and exactly the same groups involved as those claiming that Americans borders are subject to change.
In fact Russia is a major source of military power and political sponsorship and encouragement of each and every country that's declared American and European borders subject to change.

To support Russia is to support Russia declaring you a nazi and taking your home too.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34504517


Russia is openly saying they don't want to take over the world.

[link to eng.kremlin.ru] <--Putin's Valdai speech

I am paraphrasing here, but in this speech he states that Russia already has so much land and resources to manage, they have no ambitions to expand their borders.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 09:17 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
All Europe has but token armed forces because they prefer peace and productivity leading to prosperity.

Russia has but token productivity and peace and instead has chosen to build an invasion army with its resources and simply confiscate the wealth of the west.

American is in Europe because it was invited and the public prospered.
Russia had to invade Europe with it's military might and it left a wasteland.

Now Russia wants back in because they cannot survive within their own borders without monopolizing trade.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34504517


Sounds like your opinion, but if you look at the actions of the parties OBJECTIVELY, you will find that it is the opposite.

Who instigated the unrest in Ukraine?

[link to www.breitbart.com] <Oliver Stone, Ukraine revolt has CIA fingerprints.

If the Ukrainian revolt was due to US intelligence agencies, who is the aggressor in this situation?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 09:21 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
We grew up with propaganda right out of the womb speaking out against Russia, at least a lot of us were.

I know it is hard to really think about this objectively with all of that conditioning, but it is really important to call a spade, a spade.

Russia is not the aggressor in this situation. I will honestly be the first one to speak up as soon as I see it happening (but I don't think it will.)

It is obvious that since 9/11 we have been the one expanding borders... Not openly, but with shadow governments.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 09:26 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
A nation, ANY NATION has the right to be left alone.

A nation, ANY NATION has the obligation to keep within it's own borders.


THE PTB are all about educating you as to WHY THEY GET TO IGNORE THE ABOVE LAWS OF CIVILIZATION.


It is the whole of Liberal theory as to why they are entitled to force their way of life onto others.

Nobody is invading Russia

Russia is invading Ukraine and Russia has no interest in stopping there.

Just as Russia had bought Yanukovitch, they will in turn buy Merkel and others with the same inexpensive promise they gave Ukraine that if they disarm and not defend themselves they will be respected and be safe.

OP has no business inflicting his views, his Khazarian views on Ukraine, Poland, Finland or anywhere else.
He should stay in Isreal but then again, they cannot live within their own borders among themselves either.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 09:27 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
5* and pin request for truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21020237


hf
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 09:30 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
A nation, ANY NATION has the right to be left alone.

A nation, ANY NATION has the obligation to keep within it's own borders.


THE PTB are all about educating you as to WHY THEY GET TO IGNORE THE ABOVE LAWS OF CIVILIZATION.


It is the whole of Liberal theory as to why they are entitled to force their way of life onto others.

Nobody is invading Russia

Russia is invading Ukraine and Russia has no interest in stopping there.

Just as Russia had bought Yanukovitch, they will in turn buy Merkel and others with the same inexpensive promise they gave Ukraine that if they disarm and not defend themselves they will be respected and be safe.

OP has no business inflicting his views, his Khazarian views on Ukraine, Poland, Finland or anywhere else.
He should stay in Isreal but then again, they cannot live within their own borders among themselves either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34504517


You are ignoring the fact that it appears the US is the ones quietly instigating unrest in Ukraine, and it was Russia who responded openly.

The US has invaded practically the entire middle east. We detain captors indefinitely without trial. We do these things without congressional approval most of the time.

Russia voted to put force in Crimea. Crimea voted to keep them there. Sounds much more democratic than what we are up to.

Also, don't disrespect my views. I earned the right to express them. You're welcome to your informed opinion, but don't degrade this into personal accusations.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 09:31 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
I'm saying it is the actions of the US and EU that caused the bullets to start killing citizens in Ukraine, and Russia recognized what was happening-- Western intelligence agencies were attempting to destabilize Ukraine and install their own friendly government.

Would any sovereign country allow such a thing to happen? What if this shit happened to your country?

It's one thing for the population of a country to legitimately have protests, it's another thing when it's funded and supported by foreign interests.

Due to these unlawful actions, Russia drew a line in the sand. The people of eastern Ukraine and Crimea support this.

At what point does any of this affect the US?

By the way, I don't see any bullets or violence happening in Crimea, which is the focus of "Russia's evil actions." Why is this, if the place is so disputed? You would think that the population would be viciously fighting the occupiers, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


bsmeter2

face it OP, Russia is doing the wrong thing in the Ukraine, just like it did the wrong thing in the Crimea.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 09:32 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
A couple of my older threads explaining similar things..

Thread: Wanna read some crazy shit? -- BRICS, 9/11, Arab Spring, Gold, Fukushima, WWIII, etc.

Thread: Edward Snowden, and how he relates to the disappearance of MH370. Russia has our entire playbook!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 09:33 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
I'm saying it is the actions of the US and EU that caused the bullets to start killing citizens in Ukraine, and Russia recognized what was happening-- Western intelligence agencies were attempting to destabilize Ukraine and install their own friendly government.

Would any sovereign country allow such a thing to happen? What if this shit happened to your country?

It's one thing for the population of a country to legitimately have protests, it's another thing when it's funded and supported by foreign interests.

Due to these unlawful actions, Russia drew a line in the sand. The people of eastern Ukraine and Crimea support this.

At what point does any of this affect the US?

By the way, I don't see any bullets or violence happening in Crimea, which is the focus of "Russia's evil actions." Why is this, if the place is so disputed? You would think that the population would be viciously fighting the occupiers, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


bsmeter2

face it OP, Russia is doing the wrong thing in the Ukraine, just like it did the wrong thing in the Crimea.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22774473


Oh noes! The BS meter! I have been thoroughly debunked.

I shall go crawl back under my rock now.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 09:34 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
Not even one generation since the fall of that Russian masterpiece of architecture, the Berlin Wall the net is flooded with people who claim it never existed and refuse to admit Russia's making every effort to rebuild it.

Russia simultanously wants to destroy the west while it's shills are promising that Russia is the Wests savior when the fact is that the west is totally penetrated with elite friends of Vlad.
The elites and the royals will not have to work for Vlad, but you will.
The Iron Curtain was not a Disco Rave party.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2015 09:37 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond accused Mr Putin of “acting like some mid-20th century tyrant."

"Don’t make it sound like that is an outrageous thing for us to demand,” Mr Hammond said. “This man has sent troops across an international border and occupied another country’s territory acting like some mid-20th century tyrant (referring to Russia's actions in Ukraine, and how any peace agreements will involve Russia leaving Crimea.)

(...)

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


... which of course is something the West never does!

lmao
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/09/2015 09:37 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
Not even one generation since the fall of that Russian masterpiece of architecture, the Berlin Wall the net is flooded with people who claim it never existed and refuse to admit Russia's making every effort to rebuild it.

Russia simultanously wants to destroy the west while it's shills are promising that Russia is the Wests savior when the fact is that the west is totally penetrated with elite friends of Vlad.
The elites and the royals will not have to work for Vlad, but you will.
The Iron Curtain was not a Disco Rave party.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34504517


History is filled with examples of atrocities being performed on both sides.

Life, good and evil are all fluid elements, meaning that the entity that was "good" one generation isn't guaranteed to be so "good" a generation later.

Same thing with evil..

I'm not advocating being ruled by Putin or Russia. I don't think Ukraine wants to be part of Russia, and I don't think Russia wants to absorb Ukraine.

It seems the US wants to rule the world based on our actions both militarily and economically. Is this something we want? Can we imagine the entire world being managed like the US is?
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02/09/2015 09:39 AM
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Re: This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine
British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond accused Mr Putin of “acting like some mid-20th century tyrant."

"Don’t make it sound like that is an outrageous thing for us to demand,” Mr Hammond said. “This man has sent troops across an international border and occupied another country’s territory acting like some mid-20th century tyrant (referring to Russia's actions in Ukraine, and how any peace agreements will involve Russia leaving Crimea.)

(...)

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67491225


... which of course is something the West never does!

lmao
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67870347


Right!

Except, the Russian parliament voted to do this, and the people of Crimea voted to keep them there.

When was the last time this happened with a Middle Eastern country we invaded?





GLP