This is why Russia isn't doing the wrong thing in Ukraine

There's not one country that can claim to have benefited by exclusive friendship with Russia in the last 100 years.

Everywhere that Russia went has been immediately turned into a violent hellhole of sectarian clashes encouraged by the authoritarian Russian representatives.

If as claimed Russia is here to save you shouldn't you look too see what happened to every one of Russia little friends after Russia took them, literally took them, under it's wonderful wings?

The fact is that Russia has yet to demonstrate even one nation having benefited from it's intervention, so the potential that given Russias claims of being the worlds new saviour what are the chances that they get it right when they have only ever got it horribly, terribly wrong every time they forced themselves on others as their new and only friend and lover?

Crimea didn't have one casualty as a result of unrest. That's not a success?

There a lots of places, where many ppl identify themselves as russians. That is not good enough reason to start spilling blood over the lands.



Even by current Putin's laws, that referendum was illegal. I worked as an observer on last russian presedential elections. Media coverage was entirely one-sided, people of Crimea had no chance to openly debate idea of joining RF. Entire Crimea was covered in posters like this [link to icdn.lenta.ru] and all oposing voices were shutted down [link to www.youtube.com]


How about we give ukranians a chance to decide their destiny for themselves? Even if it means getting help from US and CIA.


That is not true. I can call Putin "Hitler" for a lots of reasons - repressing his own ppl, putting opposition in jail, taking away my own freedoms, ignoring constitution, waging a criminal war - not just against Ukraine, but also against Georgia and Chechnya. Let me remind you that Chechnya wanted to break away from Russia and Putin's answer to that was to eliminate half of their popullation. Famous russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya was writing about his war crimes there, about rapes of little chechen girls and about mass murder of POW. She was murdered in center of Moscow on day of Putin's birthday.


Putin is bluffing, he is not able to wage a war.

Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Vietnam, 9/11, JFK, Sandy Hook, Boston Bombing, MH370, etc..

If our government lies to us regarding such large events, how can we trust them to give us the truth regarding anything?

How can we question other events so thoroughly and in such detail, and for the most part agree the official version of events are lies, why would we trust them in matters of war?

This

Sorry for not being able to answer all, but are you so sure of that?

We are only looking at a time span of just over a year, and Russia has gone from almost joining with the EU to being totally opposed to it..

What has gone wrong? serious question, this time last year Russian officials where hopeful that in future conflict (read like Afghanistan/Iraq) that British troops would go into those conflicts armed with Russian weapons..

In the same time frame Rolls Royce (maker of military nuclear power plants) was tying up with Rusatom to build new nuclear reactors, the French, Dutch and Spanish where fighting over who could sell warships to Russia, Russian corporations where buying up European oil refineries..

Why has this dynamic changed so dramatically? almost the diametric opposite of what it was.. and it is not just Russia that seems to be the loser here, the USA seems to also be losing out, so who actually is gaining?

So true. I was in Abkhazia and South Osetia last year. Russia supposedly saved em from "nazi" Georgian almost 7 years ago. They are still in ruins, even though Russia sends there billions of dollars. Same thing will happen with Crimea. De facto its russian territory right now, but funny thing - they are getting all of their food, water and electricity from Ukraine. There are no russian banks, only ukranian, cuz of sanctions. Crimea has no connection to Russia, only across black sea. There are so many problems, that are not going to be solves in current russian economic situation.

On your first point, the bullets started flying prior to Russia's intervention in Ukraine. It was as a result of bloodshed that they decided to intervene. So, point #1 seems kind of weak.

Point #2, I don't know anything about, and I can't speak about it. I can speak of our laws in the US, and I'm pretty sure that CIA intervening in a sovereign country like Ukraine and instigating unrest is probably unlawful.

Point #3, see point #2. I don't know why any country would want the US or the CIA involved in their affairs, seems how death and bloodshed always follow.

Point #4, I don't know much about Chechnya, but just some quick research refutes your assertion of "half" the population being eliminated. The country's population is about 1.6 million according to a quick search, and estimates of casualties during that conflict put the number around 50,000. That is a high number, and I honestly don't know much about the conflict.

Once again though, I can speak of my country better than your country. If Europe and Russia need to hammer some things out diplomatically, so be it. It is no business of the United States. It appears we are the instigators in causing the unrest, how fair is it for the instigators to dictate the conditions of the peace?

Point 5, Putin is not able to wage a war.

It is not Putin threatening war, it is France's President Hollande claiming this.

However, like the citizens of the US, Russian citizens are ruthless when they believe they are fighting a legitimate war.

I'd hate to be on the receiving end of the wrath of a motivated Russian population.

I will tell you who is gaining - Putin's ratings are. Russian economy is in bad shape since 2008 and its getting only worse. Mainly cuz of corruption, bad policies and terrible management. Biggest corporations are controlled by his closest friends. British foreign minister is right when he is calling Putin a tyrant. Think about it - he is 15 years in power, next election for another 6-year term will be in 2018 and he is running unopposed. That will be 24 years of absolute power. Do you think its in russian ppl interrest? EU and USA are easy targets of his propoganda machine. His main goal is to protect his throne. Best friends of russian diplomacy are totalitarian regimes like North Korea. Mark my words - on 9th may there will be parade in Moscow for 70th anniversary of ending ww2 and Kim Jong Un is going to have VIP place right next to mr Putin.

Nothing went wrong. Putin decided that opposing west will give him more profit in eyes of propoganda audience. His ratings are very important during economical collapse. Main idea sold by propaganda inside of Russia could be interpreted as "Its not time to critisize or change our goverment, when we surrounded by enemies, who want us to fight each other. Its time for us all to gather around our leader in face of western threat".

well, that is a shame... given how this will end in a global conflict, I don't see any other way out, midst of a depression these things always seem to happen..

best of luck

There was no millitary action before Crimea annexation. First shots were fired on east of Ukraine by pro-russian rebels, who were probably trained, equipped and organised by russian millitary.


Trust me - ukranians had very good reasons to revolt without any kind of foreign instigations.


You will be surprised. For instance, many russians who share my political views, would love to see CIA involvement in crashing of Putin's regime. I think that CIA could never instigate a revolution without strong support on the ground by locals.


On December 6, 1999 Putin said that every civillian should leave Chechen capital, city of Grozny or they will be considered as terrorists. [link to esquire.ru] That is was happened to that city. It is very hard to find objective information on this subject, since there is no independent journalism left in Russia. Considering political situation, official numbers cant be true. We still dont know our losses from WW2. Officials say its somewhere between 20 and 30 millions of ppl. Can u imagine that? +/- 10 millions of ppl - that is being said by high level officials. Nevermind the numbers, whole war was meaningless, lots of russian and chechen ppl died there just to keep this small nation conquered and we had dozens of terrorist atacks since as a result. My main point is that in Ukranian conflict Putin says that rebels have a right to break away, but in Chechen conflict he scorched them with fire, without caring about casualties or consequences.


When Soviet Union fell apart, Ukraine was #3 nuclear power in the world. They agreed to give away all of their nukes to Russia in exchange for promise to protect their borders. This promise was given by US, UK and Russia. You can read more here - [link to en.wikipedia.org] You cant give a promise to help and than on day X say "its not my problem". Ukranian borders were broken by Crimean annexation and all that US did - imposed some weak sanctions on Putins friends. Its a matter of what your countriy's promise is worth internationally.

Look at this picture - [link to barentsobserver.com] It says "radioactive ashes" on the screen. This picture is a screenshot from most popular newscast on 100% goverment-owned tv channel. This episode aired in april 2014. With that picture behind him, he was saying "Russia is the only country in the world, that can turn USA into radioactive ashes". This is just an example from the top of my head. You will be shocked to find out how much militarized russian propoganda atm.

Dont give up OP shills in full force

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Russia calls Ukrainians in Ukraine nazis

Russia calls Americans in Ukrain nazis


Why should Putin deal with one set of alleged nazis different than the other?

Putin is creating a noose around Americas neck with deals with Cuba and the very central American countries flooding across the southern border.

Ukraines borders have been erased by Putin and Americas borders are erased by Putin and his flexible friends.

Do you think Putins flexible friends are going to suffer or do you think Americans that look just like Ukrainians are going to suffer.
Is Yanukovich suffering right now living in Russia under Putins protection or are the Ukrainians the ones being killed and having their economy destroyed so that Russia can run away with it?

Russia calls Ukrainians in Ukraine nazis

Russia calls Americans in Europe and America nazis


Why should Putin deal with one set of alleged nazis different than the other?

Putin is creating a noose around Americas neck with deals with Cuba and the very central American countries flooding across the southern border.

Ukraines borders have been erased by Putin and Americas borders are erased by Putin and his flexible friends.

Do you think Putins flexible friends are going to suffer or do you think Americans that look just like Ukrainians are going to suffer.
Is Yanukovich suffering right now living in Russia under Putins protection or are the Ukrainians the ones being killed and having their economy destroyed so that Russia can run away with it?


fixed

OP's other thread is "Why Treyvon Martin wasn't doing the wrong thing to George Zimmerman".

Yeah, I'm just home from school because we're getting like two more feet.

It's all the global warming we keep hearing about. If anything, it's from all the geo engineering we DON'T keep hearing about ;)

Yes. Hawai'i. That's exactly what the U.S. did.

One can only speak so much truth to people that don't want to hear it, or have incentive in distorting it.

All the opposition to what I'm saying here is basing their arguments on the premise that Russia was the aggressor in the region, when it is the opposite.

If there are legitimate protests going on in a country and as a result a government's regime changes, then so be it.

If there are legitimate protests going on and a foreign intelligence agency instigates fighting amongst the protesting population and the civilian authorities trying to maintain peace, do we find this acceptable?

When a foreign intelligence agency starts a war in a neighboring country to yours and people start dying needlessly, and they are also ethnically connected to your country, isn't it kind of your moral duty to prevent bloodshed?

Plus, unlike the US and our actions in the middle east, Russia's parliament voted to do this, and the people voted for this to happen.

Whether we agree with the actions that either side are performing, how is it ANY of the United States business to get involved?

AWwwwww OP's home from school because of a snow day.
Buck up little manchild, springtimes coming..

Good thread, OP. ^5

Kind of reminds you of Syria, too.

Right. I served in the US Army and I have the GI bill to use up. Unfortunately I have to remove snow instead of bettering myself. What's your excuse for being on this thread?

Bring up a map and imagine that all of our actions since 9/11 have been preparing for WWIII with Russia and possibly China.

Draw a line through Europe and through the Middle east, keeping in mind which countries recently had an "arab spring" as well as the ones we invaded like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Seems like we're making a kind of military front with Russia and China to the east, right?

Notice anything funny about Iran and Syria? Syria is west of that imaginary line we just drew, and Iran is smack dab in the middle of Iraq and Afghanistan. Funny the rhetoric we get about needing to invade and secure both those countries, right?

Also, I've heard that Syria doesn't have a foreign central bank, they have a state run central bank. Iran also has a state owned central bank. Russia is part of BRICS, which is a coalition of countries trying to unseat the US dollar's dominance.

Isn't it a wild coincidence that all of these "terrorist" countries aren't run by the same central bankers NATO countries are run by?

right, yet here you are on the computer kissing putin's butt all day-----wouldn't that job be easier if you packed up and moved to moscow?

As I said, snow day. I don't need to prove to you what I've done and where I've gone.

I signed up in 2005 at the height of the Iraq war. I believed the propaganda that put us there, and I was willing to die for the cause.

Can you imagine how pissed off all these veterans are going to be when they realize all their buddies that didn't come home died because of a lie?

I suppose I should just support Obama like everyone else on GLP ;)

OP that is not true!!!! only the braindead support this..





there are many like you..