Eternal Life in Hellfire? | |
DGenesis1:29 (OP) User ID: 68640391 United States 04/30/2015 07:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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Face Palmer User ID: 1149868 Germany 04/30/2015 07:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Dont make fun it gets deleted "The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title." Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The woman who is not pursued sets up the doctrine that pursuit is offensive to her sex, and wants to make it a felony. No genuinely attractive woman has any such desire. - H.L. Mencken, In Defense Of Women |
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DGenesis1:29 (OP) User ID: 68640391 United States 05/12/2015 08:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Good stuff, OP. However. . . Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52621665 There's no such state. Death has actually been defeated and will in fact be the last enemy neutralized. Annihilation is a massive step up from Endless Torture, but it remains an unsatisfactory outcome for Love. You're gonna need to explain why the Bible says the wicked, and Satan shall not exist anymore. And why they shall be ashes under the soles of our feet. Death being defeated means none shall die anymore. Sin and death are done with. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 52621665 United States 05/12/2015 04:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Good stuff, OP. However. . . Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52621665 There's no such state. Death has actually been defeated and will in fact be the last enemy neutralized. Annihilation is a massive step up from Endless Torture, but it remains an unsatisfactory outcome for Love. You're gonna need to explain why the Bible says the wicked, and Satan shall not exist anymore. And why they shall be ashes under the soles of our feet. Death being defeated means none shall die anymore. Sin and death are done with. If they're ashes, they still exist, yes? Aren't ashes symbolic of humility (as typically paired with sackcloth)? The wicked will "cease to exist" in the same manner the "old me" or the "old you" cease to exist - "old things are passed away, behold all things are become new", etc. One of the clues is in Psalm 112, where we're told the *desire* of the wicked shall perish. What does it matter that his desire dies if he himself is going to vanish entirely? There's more going on here than a simple disposal of failed projects. The catch is that "all shall be salted with fire", not just evil people. God applies fire for purification, as the Refiner perfecting His creations. And God says He's no respector of persons. If we're following Christ, we should be at least somewhat familiar with the fire - fiery trials and so forth, which we're told change us into His image as the process burns away the flesh, or defective carnal human sin nature. Those old testament burnt sacrifices of goats and bulls and so forth symbolize *us* going through the fire, and as the "flesh" is burned away, it pleases God because it renders us fit for spiritual things, no longer mere beasts dominated by carnal desires to eat and mate and fight. That's what the smoke of their turmoil rising up to the age illustrates. Fire is always what made the sacrifices acceptable. Also, Psalm 2 talks about God's people (the Meek/overcomers/sons of God spoken of in Romans 8) receiving the heathen as an inheritance. Note that the "gates" of New Jerusalem *never* close. Isaiah 60 explains that these gates remain open for the purpose of bringing the kings and armies of the world inside. |
DGenesis1:29 (OP) User ID: 68640391 United States 05/12/2015 09:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If they're ashes, they still exist, yes? Aren't ashes symbolic of humility (as typically paired with sackcloth)? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52621665 The wicked will "cease to exist" in the same manner the "old me" or the "old you" cease to exist - "old things are passed away, behold all things are become new", etc. One of the clues is in Psalm 112, where we're told the *desire* of the wicked shall perish. What does it matter that his desire dies if he himself is going to vanish entirely? There's more going on here than a simple disposal of failed projects. The catch is that "all shall be salted with fire", not just evil people. God applies fire for purification, as the Refiner perfecting His creations. And God says He's no respector of persons. If we're following Christ, we should be at least somewhat familiar with the fire - fiery trials and so forth, which we're told change us into His image as the process burns away the flesh, or defective carnal human sin nature. Those old testament burnt sacrifices of goats and bulls and so forth symbolize *us* going through the fire, and as the "flesh" is burned away, it pleases God because it renders us fit for spiritual things, no longer mere beasts dominated by carnal desires to eat and mate and fight. That's what the smoke of their turmoil rising up to the age illustrates. Fire is always what made the sacrifices acceptable. Also, Psalm 2 talks about God's people (the Meek/overcomers/sons of God spoken of in Romans 8) receiving the heathen as an inheritance. Note that the "gates" of New Jerusalem *never* close. Isaiah 60 explains that these gates remain open for the purpose of bringing the kings and armies of the world inside. If they are ashes they do not still exist. They are literally ashes. That's like claiming the people whom the atomic bomb was dropped on still exist. Ashes are a symbol of humility, but you can't take the symbolic meaning and apply it to a literal event. This is the end result of the wicked. They "surely die." Satan says, "Ye shall not surely die." Either the wages of sin is death, or it isn't. Either my personal being will die, or I will not die. It's either one or the other. The wages of sin is not life, and that eternally, once we've extinguished your wickedness. No, it's death. As in you die. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 52621665 United States 05/12/2015 11:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's like claiming the people whom the atomic bomb was dropped on still exist. Quoting: DGenesis1:29 But they *do* - and they will, at the millennial resurrection(s). Ashes are a symbol of humility, but you can't take the symbolic meaning and apply it to a literal event. Why not? Symbolism is the language of scripture. Are we not to "die daily"? And yet only through that "death" (in and with Christ) do we truly live, right? Furthermore, the nuts & bolts of this death boils down to simply learning to deal with challenges and to make spiritual choices & observations and grow some functional ears and not be ruled by our lower animal instincts. If we've been walking any distance with Him, it should be starting to sink in that death is really *not* that big a big deal. "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." If you & I are in Christ, we are right now dead, and it's *His* life we're living, yes? I'm not the same guy I was back when I did things my way. This death we're under is actually liberating, yes? It really only affects our "old self", who ends up dethroned so Christ has a place to sit within us. Lost people are in for essentially the same program - the timing is the only real difference. As firstfruits, we're merely the first batch (after Christ, the prototype or captain of our salvation). All through scripture, death is essentially the first step towards life. . . "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit". Right, "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." We know that every knee will bow And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2). And we're told that that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Therefore, these previously unbelieving multitudes will either have the Holy Spirit or the Holy Spirit will have them - for most believers, this is pretty "out there" conclusion to make, but I don't think there's any getting around it. Keep in mind, "the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." |
DGenesis1:29 (OP) User ID: 68640391 United States 05/13/2015 10:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | But they *do* - and they will, at the millennial resurrection(s). Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52621665 Malachi 4:1-3 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. All those who are resurrected to the judgment scene will have their lives extinguished. What you are declaring gives absolutely no reason for any one of us to be Christians. If they at the judgment scene do not suffer death, then the wages of sin is really not death. Do they actually die at the judgment scene, yes or no? Your response is no. Therefore, the wages of sin, is not death to you. It is eternal life, and that after suffering in flames for a time. The Word of God is plain. Thus saith the Lord, the wages of sin is death. Why not? Symbolism is the language of scripture. Are we not to "die daily"? And yet only through that "death" (in and with Christ) do we truly live, right? Furthermore, the nuts & bolts of this death boils down to simply learning to deal with challenges and to make spiritual choices & observations and grow some functional ears and not be ruled by our lower animal instincts. If we've been walking any distance with Him, it should be starting to sink in that death is really *not* that big a big deal. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52621665 "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." If you & I are in Christ, we are right now dead, and it's *His* life we're living, yes? I'm not the same guy I was back when I did things my way. This death we're under is actually liberating, yes? It really only affects our "old self", who ends up dethroned so Christ has a place to sit within us. Lost people are in for essentially the same program - the timing is the only real difference. As firstfruits, we're merely the first batch (after Christ, the prototype or captain of our salvation). All through scripture, death is essentially the first step towards life. . . "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit". Emphasis mine. Death is really not that big of a deal? Then there is no threatening of God's judgment then for the sins we commit! Then behold, we may sin, and that eternally, for all we shall suffer is flames of fire for a time! And we shall have right to the tree of life! Behold, sinners can be emboldened in their sins! Behold, the wicked have no reason to repent! Death is no punishment! Live a sin filled life now, and receive the reward of eternal happiness later. Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. This Scripture must needs be rewritten then, that those who have right to the tree of life are those who don't do His commandments as well. Blessed are they as well, for they too will have right to the tree of life! Under your teaching, there is no punishment for sin. Death is no punishment, but the first step towards life. Therefore death really means, life. Right, "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52621665 We know that every knee will bow And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2). And we're told that that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Therefore, these previously unbelieving multitudes will either have the Holy Spirit or the Holy Spirit will have them - for most believers, this is pretty "out there" conclusion to make, but I don't think there's any getting around it. Keep in mind, "the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." The wicked do not want Christ. They have rejected Him their whole lives. Yes, every knee shall finally bow, but for multitudes many, it shall be too late. They will realize the justice in God destroying them, and ending their lives -- but too late. They will realize that the wages of sin really is death -- but too late. Nevertheless, the wicked will bow to the supremacy of Christ, and give Him glory. Then will fire shall come down and devour them, and they shall each be burned according to their works. And then, they shall cease to exist. They shall be as if they had never been. They rise from the graves exactly how they went down into them. Their wicked hearts have no desire for obedience. They hate God. They hate Christ. They will not walk in righteousness. They will hate heaven. They will hate to exist among those who share the same love as Christ. Such discontent will not be made manifest in heaven. AC, this all goes back to the very first lie told in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Do not believe him. Yes, the wicked will "surely die". The wages of sin is death, period. And if there is no death, then there is no need for Christ. And if there is no need for Christ, there is no need for righteousness. And if there is no need for righteousness, then "let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die." Let us live exceptionally wicked lives, for we shall still inherit the tree of life. We shall still live for all eternity. That, dear AC, is not the gospel. Last Edited by DGenesis1:29 on 05/13/2015 10:16 AM |