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Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/05/2019 08:09 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?

....

The 'Great Grain robbery' is also a fact. Did you know that the US transferred billions of dollars, in the form of subsidized grain, to the SOVIET UNION immediately after the conclusion of the Apollo Program!
 Quoting: Florida Stevii 76792171


At any rate, the US and Soviet Union had a joint low orbit space mission immediately after that:
"The Apollo–Soyuz Test Project, conducted in July 1975, was the first joint U.S.–Soviet space flight." - Wikipedia

So the Soviets had no motivation to call "foul". Indeed, they had covered up deaths in their own space program, and probably did not want that revealed either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47752129


Yeah, funny that they would corroborate on a LEO mission, instead of you know... A co-operative manned Moon mission!
Anonymous Coward
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12/05/2019 09:06 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?

....

The 'Great Grain robbery' is also a fact. Did you know that the US transferred billions of dollars, in the form of subsidized grain, to the SOVIET UNION immediately after the conclusion of the Apollo Program!
 Quoting: Florida Stevii 76792171


At any rate, the US and Soviet Union had a joint low orbit space mission immediately after that:
"The Apollo–Soyuz Test Project, conducted in July 1975, was the first joint U.S.–Soviet space flight." - Wikipedia

So the Soviets had no motivation to call "foul". Indeed, they had covered up deaths in their own space program, and probably did not want that revealed either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47752129


If you go deeper, for example read "From Major Jordans Diaries" or Antony Sutons work you would know that the same people who were in power in the US were running the USSR. See also the Norman Dodd on the Reece committee on non profits, where in their aim was to comfortably merge the US with the Soviet Union.

So I would say on a higher level (this level) they were all on the same team.
Neil WeakLegs
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12/05/2019 09:58 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?

....

The 'Great Grain robbery' is also a fact. Did you know that the US transferred billions of dollars, in the form of subsidized grain, to the SOVIET UNION immediately after the conclusion of the Apollo Program!
 Quoting: Florida Stevii 76792171


At any rate, the US and Soviet Union had a joint low orbit space mission immediately after that:
"The Apollo–Soyuz Test Project, conducted in July 1975, was the first joint U.S.–Soviet space flight." - Wikipedia

So the Soviets had no motivation to call "foul". Indeed, they had covered up deaths in their own space program, and probably did not want that revealed either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47752129


If you go deeper, for example read "From Major Jordans Diaries" or Antony Sutons work you would know that the same people who were in power in the US were running the USSR. See also the Norman Dodd on the Reece committee on non profits, where in their aim was to comfortably merge the US with the Soviet Union.

So I would say on a higher level (this level) they were all on the same team.
 Quoting: Neil WeakLegs 54097234


Once you follow the money, it all points to, well, you know.
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2019 01:02 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
If you go deeper, for example read "From Major Jordans Diaries" or Antony Sutons work you would know that the same people who were in power in the US were running the USSR. See also the Norman Dodd on the Reece committee on non profits, where in their aim was to comfortably merge the US with the Soviet Union.

So I would say on a higher level (this level) they were all on the same team.
 Quoting: Neil WeakLegs 77388729


Once you follow the money, it all points to, well, you know.


Which also explains why Communism had so much ASSISTANCE in its efforts to subvert America.

Apparently Kennedy wanted to do a joint US/USSR Moon mission.

MIC didn't like that idea, they still wanted to drag out the Cold War another 2 and a half decades!
Neil WeakLegs
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12/06/2019 01:42 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
If you go deeper, for example read "From Major Jordans Diaries" or Antony Sutons work you would know that the same people who were in power in the US were running the USSR. See also the Norman Dodd on the Reece committee on non profits, where in their aim was to comfortably merge the US with the Soviet Union.

So I would say on a higher level (this level) they were all on the same team.
 Quoting: Neil WeakLegs 77388729


Once you follow the money, it all points to, well, you know.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47752129


Which also explains why Communism had so much ASSISTANCE in its efforts to subvert America.

Apparently Kennedy wanted to do a joint US/USSR Moon mission.

MIC didn't like that idea, they still wanted to drag out the Cold War another 2 and a half decades!


There is actually a video of a speech by JFK saying that he wanted to do a joint US/USSR Moon mission. You can see and hear JFK saying it himself.

There is a rumor that Eisenhower knew that the MIC had advanced tech and wanted it to be made public.

JFK knew about it from Eisenhower, and proposed the Moon landing before the end of the decade to get the tech exposed but instead the MIC decided to conceal the high tech and fake the Apollo missions using souped-up low tech (rockets). (And keep the profits.)
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2019 02:16 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
There definitely is tech hidden from us. They show us what they were working on 15-20 years ago.

Imagine the robots Boston Dynamics actually has... Probably hybrids/cyborgs by now.

But that is neither here nor there, when it comes to Apollo.

Apologies for getting sidetracked.
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2019 12:52 AM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
*BUMP*
Halcyon Dayz, FCD

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12/09/2019 01:51 AM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
This guy Halcyon just goes round in circles.

You can't pin him down on anything because he DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING.
 Quoting: Canatard 47752129

Maybe you are not asking the right questions.

What Heavy Lifter rocket would they use, Halcyon, if they were to replicate the Apollo missions today?
 Quoting: Canatard 47752129

NOBODY is going to replicate Apollo.
NOBODY is going to send people to the Moon today.

Assuming they had the money, which you say is the problem (and 'lack of political will', whatever that is).
 Quoting: Canatard 47752129

They would have needed the funding and proper political support years ago.
Nobody pulls off a major space programme, or even a very little one, in an afternoon.
What's wrong with you?

You keep failing to explain how this is relevant to your accusations.

Let me give but one example. I said that the Apollo Program was used as a distraction from things like Nixon closing the Gold Window and disclosure of Vietnam War atrocities.

"This is an ASSertion, not a proven fact.
Do you even understand the difference?"

Halcyon Dayz says.

Well... Actually it is a fact that US government held off telling the public about the My Lai massacre, that happened in 1968 (!!!) until after Apollo 11, and just two weeks or so before Apollo 12!

And it is also a FACT that Nixon closed the Gold Window less than two weeks after Apollo 15! Closer to one week, really, if you look at when the mission ended and the craft 'returned from the Moon' was recovered.

Facts. Not assertions.
 Quoting: Canadard 47752129

Correlation =/= causation.
Logic: how does it work?

The US has so many scandals you could link everything with everything.
"Happened in the same week" is not prove one thing has to do with the other.

And you keep failing to explain how this is relevant to your accusations.
Using Apollo as a distraction doesn't require Apollo to be faked, it merely needs to happen.

The 'Great Grain robbery' is also a fact. Did you know that the US transferred billions of dollars, in the form of subsidized grain, to the SOVIET UNION immediately after the conclusion of the Apollo Program!
 Quoting: Canadard 47752129

How could a mere 10 million tonnes of wheat be worth billions?
And all exported wheat was subsidised.

And you keep failing to explain how this is relevant to your accusations.
The Soviet Union doesn't even exist anymore.
The current generation would have no reason to sit on such juicy info.

All this is just speculation, innuendo, and arguments from ignorance.
It's not proof.
It isn't even evidence.

Evidence needs to be true, and relevant.
As in, it actually proves that something was faked.
Half a century and still nada.
book
Reaching for the sky makes you taller.

Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
BeSkeptical

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12/09/2019 06:59 AM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
The current generation would have no reason to sit on such juicy info.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Putin, like other tyrants and totalitarian systems, prefers to use information as blackmail.
Evidence needs to be true, and relevant.
As in, it actually proves that something was faked.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Backwards "logic." NASA is the one making the most extravagant scientific claim in history. NASA is the one who must prove its case.

In fact, NASA never tried.

- Scientifically, NASA could have provided its technology and documentation (methods and apparatus) to nonaligned countries willing to reproduce the alleged feat.

- Historically, NASA could have provided nonaligned countries with means to track and communicate with the astronauts throughout their alleged journey, and provided instructions to the astronauts on how to demonstrate their claims. (For example: "Briefly remove your heavy equipment, then jump ten feet in the air.")

- Legally, NASA could have conducted a series of depositions, under oath and cross-examination, of the astronauts, engineers and executives.

NASA did none of this. Instead, ruled by infamous crook Tricky Dicky Nixon, NASA simply hoped that the American people would be so gullible as to swallow the entire story whole without question. Unfortunately, NASA was mostly correct on that.
Neil WeakLegs
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12/09/2019 07:37 AM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
The current generation would have no reason to sit on such juicy info.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Putin, like other tyrants and totalitarian systems, prefers to use information as blackmail.
Evidence needs to be true, and relevant.
As in, it actually proves that something was faked.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Backwards "logic." NASA is the one making the most extravagant scientific claim in history. NASA is the one who must prove its case.

In fact, NASA never tried.

- Scientifically, NASA could have provided its technology and documentation (methods and apparatus) to nonaligned countries willing to reproduce the alleged feat.

- Historically, NASA could have provided nonaligned countries with means to track and communicate with the astronauts throughout their alleged journey, and provided instructions to the astronauts on how to demonstrate their claims. (For example: "Briefly remove your heavy equipment, then jump ten feet in the air.")

- Legally, NASA could have conducted a series of depositions, under oath and cross-examination, of the astronauts, engineers and executives.

NASA did none of this. Instead, ruled by infamous crook Tricky Dicky Nixon, NASA simply hoped that the American people would be so gullible as to swallow the entire story whole without question. Unfortunately, NASA was mostly correct on that.
 Quoting: BeSkeptical



Assuming that something was faked, no one can accuse NASA or the astronauts of perjury because, as you pointed out, they never tried to legally (using the court system) prove anything.

They just sort of implied that they went; I think a lawyer would call it "hearsay" and it would not stand up in court.
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2019 08:11 AM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
The current generation would have no reason to sit on such juicy info.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Putin, like other tyrants and totalitarian systems, prefers to use information as blackmail.
Evidence needs to be true, and relevant.
As in, it actually proves that something was faked.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Backwards "logic." NASA is the one making the most extravagant scientific claim in history. NASA is the one who must prove its case.

In fact, NASA never tried.

- Scientifically, NASA could have provided its technology and documentation (methods and apparatus) to nonaligned countries willing to reproduce the alleged feat.

- Historically, NASA could have provided nonaligned countries with means to track and communicate with the astronauts throughout their alleged journey, and provided instructions to the astronauts on how to demonstrate their claims. (For example: "Briefly remove your heavy equipment, then jump ten feet in the air.")

- Legally, NASA could have conducted a series of depositions, under oath and cross-examination, of the astronauts, engineers and executives.

NASA did none of this. Instead, ruled by infamous crook Tricky Dicky Nixon, NASA simply hoped that the American people would be so gullible as to swallow the entire story whole without question. Unfortunately, NASA was mostly correct on that.
 Quoting: BeSkeptical



Assuming that something was faked, no one can accuse NASA or the astronauts of perjury because, as you pointed out, they never tried to legally (using the court system) prove anything.

They just sort of implied that they went; I think a lawyer would call it "hearsay" and it would not stand up in court.
 Quoting: Neil WeakLegs 77397845


well, "they were just passengers" as buzz said,
BeSkeptical

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12/09/2019 09:47 AM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
[link to www.cnn.com (secure)]
---
Neil Armstrong's widow finds artifacts from moonwalk in a closet

Inside the bag was the camera that recorded Armstrong's landing on the moon, as well as his famous remarks upon his landing.
---

Neil Armstrong was a man of high character. Does anyone actually imagine that he would have quietly purloined priceless historic artifacts--without permission or documentation--and hid them in his closet like a schoolboy with a stolen baseball glove?

Isn't it more likely that he considered the artifacts to be legal evidence in a potential fraud case?

Last Edited by BeSkeptical on 12/09/2019 09:49 AM
BeSkeptical

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12/09/2019 09:51 AM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
Neil Armstrong's death was somewhat suspicious.

[link to www.nytimes.com (secure)]
---
But in private, the family’s reaction to his death at 82 was far stormier. His two sons contended that incompetent post-surgical care at Mercy Health — Fairfield Hospital had cost Mr. Armstrong his life, and even one expert retained by the hospital would find serious problems with his treatment.

The hospital defended the care, but paid the family $6 million to settle the matter privately and avoid devastating publicity, documents show. The hospital insisted on keeping the complaints and the settlement secret.
---
BeSkeptical

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12/09/2019 09:55 AM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
Neil Armstrong's widow suggested that we give him a wink.

[link to www.nasa.gov (secure)]
---
"For those who may ask what they can do to honor Neil, we have a simple request. Honor his example of service, accomplishment and modesty, and the next time you walk outside on a clear night and see the moon smiling down at you, think of Neil Armstrong and give him a wink."
---

Non-Americans need to understand the American meaning of a wink. Wikipedia explains:

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
---
Winking in Western culture can be used as a way of letting someone else know that the winker or some other person is joking or lying (e.g., a parent tells their child a story about a fairy princess, and then winks at the child's older sibling, the sibling thus knows the parent is lying to the younger child).
---
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2019 06:57 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
Neil Armstrong's death was somewhat suspicious.

[link to www.nytimes.com (secure)]
---
But in private, the family’s reaction to his death at 82 was far stormier. His two sons contended that incompetent post-surgical care at Mercy Health — Fairfield Hospital had cost Mr. Armstrong his life, and even one expert retained by the hospital would find serious problems with his treatment.

The hospital defended the care, but paid the family $6 million to settle the matter privately and avoid devastating publicity, documents show. The hospital insisted on keeping the complaints and the settlement secret.
---
 Quoting: BeSkeptical


Now thats interesting and new to me!
Cheers BeSkeptical! hf
Neil WeakLegs
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12/09/2019 10:28 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
The current generation would have no reason to sit on such juicy info.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Putin, like other tyrants and totalitarian systems, prefers to use information as blackmail.
Evidence needs to be true, and relevant.
As in, it actually proves that something was faked.
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD

Backwards "logic." NASA is the one making the most extravagant scientific claim in history. NASA is the one who must prove its case.

In fact, NASA never tried.

- Scientifically, NASA could have provided its technology and documentation (methods and apparatus) to nonaligned countries willing to reproduce the alleged feat.

- Historically, NASA could have provided nonaligned countries with means to track and communicate with the astronauts throughout their alleged journey, and provided instructions to the astronauts on how to demonstrate their claims. (For example: "Briefly remove your heavy equipment, then jump ten feet in the air.")

- Legally, NASA could have conducted a series of depositions, under oath and cross-examination, of the astronauts, engineers and executives.

NASA did none of this. Instead, ruled by infamous crook Tricky Dicky Nixon, NASA simply hoped that the American people would be so gullible as to swallow the entire story whole without question. Unfortunately, NASA was mostly correct on that.
 Quoting: BeSkeptical



Assuming that something was faked, no one can accuse NASA or the astronauts of perjury because, as you pointed out, they never tried to legally (using the court system) prove anything.

They just sort of implied that they went; I think a lawyer would call it "hearsay" and it would not stand up in court.
 Quoting: Neil WeakLegs 77397845


well, "they were just passengers" as buzz said,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78232756


It seems like Buzz is a "loose cannon". Why haven't they silenced him?
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2019 10:34 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
They have set Buzz up so that any admission at this point would be DISMISSED as the 'ravings of a lunatic', an old man, a hero, who has unfortunately gone senile.
Neil WeakLegs
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12/09/2019 11:09 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
They have set Buzz up so that any admission at this point would be DISMISSED as the 'ravings of a lunatic', an old man, a hero, who has unfortunately gone senile.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47752129


If Buzz gave names, dates, and locations, and pointed directly to specific evidence, I do not think he would be ignored.
Neil WeakLegs
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12/09/2019 11:14 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
a u L I s. Com


Nobody went to the Moon.

Not the Soviets not the Americans.

Still can’t!


Halcyon is a joke!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78236031


This thread is not about "going to the Moon" in general. It is specifically about the Apollo Moon Missions from 1969 to 1972.

For all we know, the Military Industrial Complex could have gone to the Moon by other missions. With advanced tech, they could take off from Antarctica and avoided the VABs, etc.
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2019 06:03 PM
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Re: Moon Landing hoax? Debunking the Debunkers?
They have set Buzz up so that any admission at this point would be DISMISSED as the 'ravings of a lunatic', an old man, a hero, who has unfortunately gone senile.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47752129


If Buzz gave names, dates, and locations, and pointed directly to specific evidence, I do not think he would be ignored.
 Quoting: Neil WeakLegs 77396426


Well, is he going to give the name of the guy that hypnotized him, or the guy that gave him drugs, or what?

I am pretty sure they would have no qualms taking it out on his living family members.

Does he know the details behind filming of the hoax? I doubt it, they just used audio from 'simulated missions' as the 'authentic' audio, so even there he can't say "I was in this or that studio, recording the lines".





GLP