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Unfathomable Dogma

 
MuadDib987 (nli)
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06/02/2015 06:53 PM
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Unfathomable Dogma
Carry-over from

Thread: Unfathomable Love

(The magical Deletion Fairy seems to have struck - go figure. . .If somebuddy's assertions don't hold any water, maybe they should be left to stand and plainly exhibit their illogic, perhaps?)


With that said, no one is denying God cannot do as He fits. What I deny is the way you depict God. You charge Him as neglectful for allowing us to choose our own fate. There is no neglect upon the part of God.
 Quoting: DGenesis1:29


I'm actually not charging *Him* with anything - I'm calling BS (more faux-swearing) on our short-sighted Xtian misconceptions, unfortunately popular as ever.



But God is also Judge, and therefore, He will judge those who purposely harm, and attack His children as absolutely unworthy of everlasting life.
 Quoting: DGenesis1:29


This may be another point where we're dropping the ball. . .we're supposed forgive them, yes? Cuz if we can do that, their sins will be "remitted" (John 20). It sounds like it would go quite a ways toward setting things right, you suppose?


Their stained characters, their hard hearts will never change. And they do not want to change.
 Quoting: DGenesis1:29


I'm going to suggest that you're underestimating Him on this :)

Seriously, are we praying for wicked lost heathen sinners, or not? Is God answering our prayers, or not? It seems that if He claims to be eager to grant what we ask (provided our hearts are right), do you really sincerely believe that obstinate blind people can somehow thwart God's plan for them? Their hearts would change in an instant if He wanted to pull the Saul of Tarsus stunt on them. . .God floored this murderous chief of sinners in a brief moment, to where he was asking "Lord, what do you want me to do?"

Saul's hard, rebellious heart doesn't seem to have posed any difficulty for Jesus to entirely change, does it? Do you suppose Stephen's forgiveness of the mob who stoned him could have at all been even a tiny part of the equation?

Ultimately, He isn't taking "no" for an answer.


They will therefore suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. Their lives shall be extinguished. Yes Christ gave His very own life to save us all. But not all shall be saved, because some, after Christ jumping in front of the bus, find another car they can run and get hit by.
 Quoting: DGenesis1:29


By this scenario, it sounds as if Jesus failed to count the cost and account for *all* such dangerous vehicles. Is that really likely?

According to scripture, here's what your scary fire consists of:


"Our God is a consuming fire" - Hebrews 12 (an echo of Deuteronomy 4:24)


"Is not My word like fire?" - Jeremiah 23




He makes "His ministers a flame of fire" - Hebrews 1 (also Psalm 104)




fiery trials = sharing in the sufferings of Christ - 1 Peter 4




Israel's captivity in Egypt = "an iron furnace" - Deuteronomy 4:20, 1 Kings 8




A "fiery law" proceeded from God's right hand - Deuteronomy 33





>> It's not literal fire. It's symbolism for things which *function* like fire. <<




The "lake of fire" is an immersion in ^^ these ^^ things. A world governed by God's Kingdom. The "fiery law" mentioned in Deuteronomy 33 is further defined in Daniel 7:10 as a river originating from God's throne.




Isaiah 60 points out that the gates of new Jerusalem remain open for the purpose of bringing the kings and armies of the world *within*. The "lost" bathe in the "lake", outside the "city", only until they're ready to come into the "city" and become a citizen. Like those of us already serving God, this is largely just a matter of our "old self" dying ("the desire of the wicked shall perish" - Psalm 112).



Note that per Revelation 14, those cast into this "lake" are "in the presence of the Lamb". He Himself is likely the fire that purifies.




The only thing that it burns up is the old, corrupt nature and its debris. . .




Fire will expose and test each person's works. . ."if it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames" - 1 Corinthians 3




"By Mercy and Truth iniquity is purged". . .Proverbs 16




"The wicked will see it and be vexed, He will gnash his teeth and melt away; The *desire* of the wicked will perish" - Psalm 112




The glory of the Lord seemed like a consuming fire to the children of Israel - Exodus 24




It was by fire that He revealed His Law to them. Moses went right up to it, but the masses were afraid. . .

"For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the LORD our God anymore, then we shall die" - Deuteronomy 5




-->> Fire was equated with hearing His voice



In Zecharaiah 2:5, God promises to personally be a wall of fire around New Jerusalem. In both Isaiah 26 and 60, these walls are also said to consist of "salvation". Again Fire and Salvation go hand-in-hand.



The process of "fire" leaves us in ashes. . .a scriptural symbol of humility.




All through the Laws of Moses, fire is what made the offerings acceptable and pleasing to God.






After Israel defeated an enemy, all the gold, silver, brass, iron, tin and lead were to be purified by fire. . .

Paraphrased, "Everything that can withstand fire must go through fire, by which it shall be made clean. Any other materials which *cannot* withstand fire must be purified by water." - Numbers 31



Satan may be a defeated foe, but he still has millions hornswaggled.
 Quoting: DGenesis1:29


OK, and *they're* at fault on this? If they're blinded, what do you suggest? If they're deaf to spiritual things, how (or Whom) do you recommend getting through to them? What is the one thing scripture claims never fails? Do we even understand this One Thing, or does it solely make for catchy thread titles? Are we practiced at emitting it, or are we content with our repetitive carnal "turn-or-burn" efforts to force a square peg into a round hole, when logic, common sense & scripture all tell us it won't fit?

As I said, the real problem in all this is something quite different than we perceive.


There is no question as to God's ability. God is able to save to the uttermost. The question is, will the human being accept such unfathomable love. The answer for the majority is "No!"

 Quoting: DGenesis1:29


So it's a matter of His want-to, yes? Are you really truly convinced that *their* will is going to be done? I really don't think we have our story straight, partially because we bible-bots are largely full of ourselves. Mercy for *us* but not for them?! Absolutely does not compute.


I understand you mean well - most do. But fortunately, strongholds are coming down, and now is the time to let go of our doom-idols and learn how it's really done.
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
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06/02/2015 07:12 PM
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Re: Unfathomable Dogma
Goofy Thum
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06/05/2015 05:55 PM
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Re: Unfathomable Dogma
Not a fan of Christian control freaks who somehow feel the need to delete even slightly different viewpoints. Not cool, guys. Do you seriously wonder why corporately, we're a great big incongruent joke?
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