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Israel is Gog

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 02:33 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
I didn't say Magog was Israel. Israel is Gog. Magog is the United States.
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 02:36 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
Josephus and others identify Magog with Scythia, but in antiquity this name was used to designate vaguely any northern population.
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 02:47 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
You see you right, almost about the location. But you don't realize one thing about it. The Khazars who converted to Judism and became the Ashkenazi Jews who make up 95 percent of the Jews today. They sat in the lands of Gog and Magog and latter after holding out against the Monguls where finally pushed north by the Muslims into the lands of Poland, Germany and Russia later to flee to the United States and what is now Israel. 5 million in Israel and 6 million in the United States. This is how these Jews are Gog and Magog.

This is from Jewish sources.

Jewish sources
A letter in Hebrew dated AM 4746 (985–986) refers to "our lord David, the Khazar prince" who lived in Taman. The letter said that this David was visited by envoys from Kievan Rus to ask about religious matters — this could be connected to the Vladimir conversion which took place during the same time period. Taman was a principality of Kievan Rus around 988, so this successor state (if that is what it was) may have been conquered altogether. The authenticity of this letter, the Mandgelis Document, has however been questioned by such scholars as D. M. Dunlop.

Abraham ibn Daud, a twelfth-century Spanish rabbi, reported meeting Khazar rabbinical students in Toledo, and that they informed him that the "remnant of them is of the rabbinic faith." This reference indicates that some Khazars maintained ethnic, if not political, autonomy at least two centuries after the sack of Atil.

Petachiah of Ratisbon, a thirteenth-century rabbi and traveler, reported traveling through "Khazaria", though he gave few details of its inhabitants except to say that they lived amidst desolation in perpetual mourning.

He further related:

Whilst at Baghdad saw ambassadors from the kings of Meshech, for Magog (medieval Christian writers said that the Khazars lived in the land of Gog and Magog) is about ten days' journey from thence. The land extends as far as the Mountains of Darkness (a term often used to describe the Caucasus). Beyond the Mountains of Darkness are the sons of Jonadab, son of Rechab (an official in the court of King Josiah of Judah). To the seven kings of Meshech an angel appeared in a dream, bidding them to give up the laws and statutes, and to embrace the laws of Moses, son of Amram. If not, he threatened to lay waste their country. However, they delayed until the angel commenced to lay waste their country, when the kings of Meshech and all the inhabitants of their countries became proselytes, and they sent to the head of the academy (i.e., the Gaon of Sura or Pumbedita) a request to send them some disciples of the wise. Every disciple that is poor goes there to teach them the law and Babylonian Talmud. From the land of Egypt the disciples go there to study. He saw the ambassadors visit the grave of [the prophet] Ezekiel…"
The account of the conversion of the "seven kings of Meshech" is extremely similar to the accounts of the Khazar conversion given in the Kuzari, and in King Joseph's Reply. It is possible that Meshech refers to the Khazars, or to some Judaized polity influenced by them. Arguments against this possibility include the reference to "seven kings" (though this, in turn, could refer to seven successor tribes or state micropolities).
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 02:57 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
The Pharisees where the ones who taught the Babylonian Tamlud to the Khazars. Therefore the Khazars converting to Judism became part of the Pharisees and known there after as Ashkenazi Jews. Today there strong holds are America which they bought and paid for from the day of Independance(Read your History)Haym Salomon: Financier of the American War of Independence. and Israel the base in the Middle east. Gog and Magog are assoiciated with people not the land. The Son of Man would not prophesy against a peace of land! He was Phophesing against a belief system. The Pharisees.
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 03:03 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
The Jews have always owned America. Since day one.

Haym Salomon: Financier of the Revolutionay War
by Seymour "Sy" Brody
Haym Salomon was a hero and a fervent patriot whose love of liberty and business acumen combined made him a vital force for the War of Independence. Born in Poland, in 1740, he was forced to flee for his life due to his fight for freedom alongside Pulaski and Kosciusko, who later became military heroes in the American Revolution.

After Salomon landed in New York, he immediately became a successful broker because of his education and his remarkable talents. He married Rachel Franks, who came from a famous American Jewish family.

While New York was the seat of British power, and he was doing business with the wealthy loyalists, Salomon joined the Sons of Liberty, a group of revolutionary patriots. When the Revolutionary War started in 1776, the British arrested him and flung him into prison as a SPY.

The British recognized his linguistic abilities-he could speak 10 languages -- and put him to work as an interpreter. He was finally released and went back into business, aiding the Colonists with his mounting fortune.

Salomon was arrested again for his pro-revolutionary activities. This time he was tortured and condemned to be hanged. With the aid of his friends, he managed to escape to Philadelphia, where he arrived penniless. Salomon quickly retumed to business, using his profits to buy food for the starving Colonial Army. Generals Washington, Lafayette, Von Steuben and others often came to him for food and material aid.

Salomon negotiated many loans for the Colonies from France and Holland, but never took a commission for himself. According to legend, General Washington's appeal for funds with which to maintain his ragged army came to Salomon on Yom Kippur. Devoutly religious, Salomon recognized that love of country was an aspect of his religion. So he turned to the congregation and suspended services to secure pledges for the necessary funds. Only after he obtained the necessary amount needed in pledges did he proceed with the solemn holiday observances.

It became a regular practice -- the Revolutionary leaders' diaries testify to this- "that when money was needed for the Revolutionary War, you went to Haym Salomon."
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 03:04 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
Aaron Lopez.- Merchant King Who Kept The Revolutionary Army Supplied
by Seymour "Sy" Brody
Aaron Lopez was a major factor in the Colonies' ability to continue to revolt against the British in their quest for freedom. He is said to have owned, whole or in part, 30 transoceanic ships and more than 100 coastal vessels that became an important delivery arm for supplying sorely needed supplies to the Revolutionary Army.

Despite the pressure put on his ships by the British to prevent them from supplying the Colonial Army, his ships managed to deliver the materials needed for the Revolution.

Lopez was a power in Newport, Rhode Island, for years, when the port city was described as a shipping center that "New York can never hope to rival." One of the reasons for this was Rhode Island's great religious liberalism, which attracted a substantial community of well-educated and able Jews, the most affluent in the Colonies.

Lopez, who was bom in Portugal in 1731 and died in Newport in 1782, was one of the most outstanding Jews. He was described by Ezra Styles, Christian pastor and president of Yale, as "a merchant of first eminence; for honor and extent of commerce probably surpassed by no merchant in America." Newport's shipping industry was most important to young America's growing strength and power that enabled it to revolt.

Lopez was also recognized as a promoter of friendly relations between the faiths. He was respected by Christians and Jews alike, and no ship ever left his dock on either's Sabbath, Lopez personally laid the cornerstone of Touro Synagogue in Newport, which is now a Federal Shrine.

In strong sympathy with the Revolutionary patriots, Lopez fled Newport when the British attacked. Although Newport was ruined in the war, he did attempt to return when peace was won, but he was killed in an accident on the way.
Dino1

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09/12/2006 03:05 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
Last night The British Isles were both Gog and Magog - which is it.
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 03:12 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
America was born out of the Age of Enlightenment.

Enlightenment philosophers such as Voltaire, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, and David Hume questioned and attacked the existing institutions of both Church and State.

Haskalah (Hebrew: השכלה; "enlightenment," "intellect," from sekhel, "common sense"), the Jewish Enlightenment, was a movement among European Jews in the late 18th century that advocated adopting enlightenment values, pressing for better integration into European society, and increasing education in secular studies, Hebrew, and Jewish history. Haskalah in this sense marked the beginning of the wider engagement of European Jews with the secular world, resulting, ultimately, in the first Jewish political movements and the struggle for Jewish emancipation.

The French Revolution and Amercan Independance where bought and paid for by the Rothchilds and men like Haym Salomon etc. The Jews own America and always have.

The age of Enligtenment was a Jewish Masonic movement. To gain control of parts of Europe and America. Napolean would finish the job latter on.
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 03:22 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
Here is another hint. "Syna"GOG"ue
or Synagogue.

And yet another. "ZOG" Zionist Occupation (or Occupied) Government.


ZOG was an early hypertext system developed at Carnegie Mellon University during the 1970s by Donald McCracken and Robert Akscyn. The name "ZOG" is not an acronym and does not stand for anything.

ZOG was first started in 1972 as a large database for use in a multiuser environment. The project was as an outgrowth of artificial intelligence research initially organized by Allen Newell. ZOG consisted of frames that contained a title, a description, a line containing ZOG system commands, and selections (menu items) that led to other frames. ZOG pioneered the "frame" or "card" model of hypertext later popularized by HyperCard. In such systems, the frames or cards cannot scroll to show content that is part of the same document but held offscreen. Instead, text that exceeds the capacity of one screen must be placed in another (which then constitutes a separate frame or card).

The ZOG database became fully functional around 1977. In 1982, ZOG was ported from the original IBM mainframe version to the Three Rivers PERQ workstation and was used on the American aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson. In spite of ZOG's capabilities, it was a text-only system. McCracken and Akscyn later went on to develop KMS, an improved version of ZOG.
Ningishiddza

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09/12/2006 03:22 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
The 6th son of Japath; identified with the ancient Mushki of the Assyrians and the Muschoi of the classical Greek writers. The Assyrian inscriptions describe them as inhabiting Phrygia in Northern Anatolia (modern Turkey). Herodotus identifies the Mushki with the mountains southeast of the Black Sea or the Northeast part of Turkey. Josephus also identifies the descendents of Meshech as dwelling in Eastern Turkey.
 Quoting: mathetes


That much is correct as the the tribes of Gomer, ie the Celts, along with the Muschoi simultaneously attacked and destroyed the Hittite Kingdom.

The tribes of Gomer (Gimmer/GMR in Akkadian and Cimmer/CMR in Hebrew) consisted of two bands, which the Greeks later identified as the Galli and the Keltoi-Kimmeroi, which we know as the Gauls and Celts.

The Gauls were migrating from West to East, most likely fleeing plauges. The Celts were coming from the East, probably under pressure from other tribes moving west.

From the south came Meshech and Tubal, known as Mushki and Thobal by the Akkadians and Moschoi and Tabal by the Greeks.

All three groups converged on the Hittites at the same time. The Gauls and Mushoi/Tabal remained, but the Celts moved off toward the present-day UK.


Many also link the names with Mushkovi, the old name for Russia. Tubal: The 5th son of Japath and brother of Meshech. 9th century B.C. Assyrian inscriptions refer to it as Tabal, West of Meshech in Eastern Anatolia. Geographical neighbors, they became allies against the Assyrians in 713 B.C. The classical Greek writers called them the Tibareni and the Moschi. Herodotus also places them both along the Southeast shores of the Black Sea. Some associate it with Tobolsk of Russia.
 Quoting: mathetes


Well, at least philologically "Meshech" and "Moschoi" are the same.

How we get there is the way in which the Greeks transliterated Hebrew words.

The three letter consonantal root was M/SH/CH. The pronunciation in Hebrew is unclear because Semitic langauages often interchanged 'o' and 'u' (and I'm no expert on Hebrew but I'll ask over at Hebrew Union).

The transliteration to Greek would have been Mu/Sigma/Chi or Mosch. 'Oi' like 'im' in Hebrew designates plurality giving us Moschoi.

At about almost the exact same time as the destruction of the Hittites, the Hebrews destroyed the Caananites.

This for the most part fulfills a prophecy from Genesis (I think chapter 9) the "curse be to Canaan" and "Japeth will live in Shem's tents."

Moshoi/Tabal remained in the area until at least the 6th Century CE, when they were driven into the Balkans by the advancing Bulgars, Czechs and Slovaks (and Ruthenians) who themselves where fleeing the Huns/Magyars.

Should also be mentioned that the Gauls were a rather unique tribe who left their mark where ever they went, which was Galatia, (see Paul's letters to the Galatians, Galicia (in Poland), Galicia (in Spain) and of course Gaul (in France).

Celtic tribes for whatever strange/bizarre/wondrous reason made repeated "tours" of Europe moving from the Caucus/Taurus Mountains north in the Isles, then south toward Spain then east back to the Caucaus/Taurus Mountains and then all over again.

They did that 3 times in the span of about 11,000 years.

Relating the present-day inhabitants of Moscow and environs to Menshech/Moshk/Mushk/Moshoi/Mushoi is suspect, because it was done by christian fanatics around the 9th Century CE based on the fact that this is Moscow and the bible says this, therefore.

It totally ignores the history and migrations of peoples from Scandanavia, primarily Sweden and Findland into the area of St Petersburg and south to present day Moscow.
Americanii-s de vina futu-i in gura sa-i fut
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 03:34 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
Son of Man. Is not you and I but Jesus Christ. He is the one who prophesy against Gog and Magog. Not your Church.


Matthew

For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


You Evagelist Churches are not the Son of Man who's job it is to Phophesy agaist Gog. Jesus already did this when he Phophesied against the Pharisees or the modern day Jews of today Gog and Magog and Mystry Babylon.

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Gog and Magog is the modern day Pharissite Jew.
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 03:42 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
Gog shall persecute the church in the latter days. He shall be overthrown.
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 04:25 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
Ac you are so wrong its not even funny, where are you learning this? The 35 and 36th chap. of Ezekiel describe the rebirth of Israel. The chap. of Daniel your posting describe the rise of the antichrist!
 Quoting: mathetes

Free-masonic Israel IS the Anti-Christ stupido!
Anonymous Coward
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09/12/2006 04:50 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
Your not paying attention to my post obviously.
20-40

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09/12/2006 05:34 AM
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Re: Israel is Gog
The tribes of Gomer (Gimmer/GMR in Akkadian and Cimmer/CMR in Hebrew) consisted of two bands, which the Greeks later identified as the Galli and the Keltoi-Kimmeroi, which we know as the Gauls and Celts.

The Gauls were migrating from West to East, most likely fleeing plauges. The Celts were coming from the East, probably under pressure from other tribes moving west.
 Quoting: Ningishiddza

OMG, stuff from "The Migration of the Sea-People and the Indo-Iranean Migration" and Atlantean Empire!
What's next? The Atlantian capital was Tharsis!?
About the Gouls - Misleading. The Gauls are not THE ONE uniform tribe.

Tribes of Gaul were:

Belgica:

Remi -The leading tribe of the Belgae, they were based around Durocortorum (Rheims), and were well known for high quality horse breeding. Atrebates - Lived around Nemetocenna-Arras. Bellovaci - They lived around Caesaromagus. Nervii - one of the most powerful Belgic tribes living east of the Scheldt in central Belgium. Aided by the Atrebates and Viromandui, they came very close to defeating Caesar in 57BC. The Atuatuci were marching to join them but did not reach the battle in time. The Nervii's capital city seems to have been at Bagacum. Treveri - They lived west of the Rhine in modern SE Belgium and Luxembourg. The town of Treves preserves their name and was probably their capital.

Western Gaul:

Carnutes - A tribe living SW of Paris between the Seine and the Loire and probably based on Chartres. However, Cenabum (Orleans) was also an important center of theirs. The Carnutes had in their territory a shrine sacred to all the Gauls and consequently were highly respected. Santones - Were found around the river Charente and their capital was probably the town of Mediolanum (Saintes). Namnetes - A tribe based around the town of Condivincum (Nantes). Pictones/Pictavi - Located near the town of Lemonum (Poitiers). Bituriges - A tribe with its capital at Bourges (Avaricum). Before the conquests of Caesar they had been one of the pre-eminent tribes, but after had declined in importance. Argentomagus was another important oppidum of theirs. This is one of several tribes that seemed to have split, the Bituriges-Cubi lived near Bourges/Berry, the Bituriges-Vivisci near Burdigala (Bordeaux).
Lemovices - Lived near the modern town of Limoges whose ancient name is unknown.

Aquitania:

Vocates - One of many small tribes of Aquitania. They lived in the north-west, towards the mouth of the Garonne River. Elusates - Another of many small tribes of Aquitania. They lived in the center of the region, around the town of Eauze, whose ancient name is unknown. Tarbelli - One of many small tribes of Aquitania. They lived in the extreme southwest around the town of Dax.

Southern Gaul:

Arverni - A very powerful tribe living in the Auvergne. The most important stronghold of theirs was Gergovia (somewhere near Clermont-Ferrand). The most notable Gallic resistance leader, Vercingetorix, came from the Arverni. They had been the most powerful Gallic tribe in the 3rd and 2nd centuries BC under their king, Luernios, but when his son, Bituitos was defeated by the Romans in 123BC and the Roman 'Provincia' established, their ascendancy passed to the Aedui and Sequani. Cadurci - A tribe centered on the town of Divona. Ruteni - Lived near the town of Segodunum (Rodez).

Central Gaul:

Aedui - The leading tribe of Caesar's period, although humbled by the Germans under Ariovistus. Their capital was at Bibracte (Mont Beuvray or Autun). Branovices - A branch of the Aulerci based at Brionnais. Mandubii - A tribe whose main stronghold at Alesia (Alise-Sainte-Reine) saw the climax of the Gallic Revolt, when Vercingetorix surrendered there after a long siege. Senones - A tribe living SE of Paris around the town of Agedincum (Sens). Parisii - Lived near Lutetia (Paris). Meldi - Found east of Paris on the Marne near Meaux.

Eastern Gaul:

Sequani - Based at Vesontio (Besancon). They precipitated the Roman invasion by calling on the help of the German king Ariovistus of the Suebi when in danger of conquest by the Aedui. Lingones - Lived in the region of Andematunnum (Langres) and Dijon. Mediomatrici - Were found to the west of the Vosges, south of the Treveri. Their chief town was Divodurum (Metz).

Helvetia:

Helvetii - The major tribe living in Switzerland. Ariovistus' aid to the Sequani prompted them to want to move, something which Caesar didn't want to happen. Tigurini - Neighbours and fellow travellers with the Helvetii on their failed migration. The Tigurini had joined the Cimbri and Teutones in the march against northern Italia during the late 2nd century BCE, and fled from Sulla after those tribes' defeat by Marius. Boii - The Boii probably represented remnants of the Boii ejected from Cisalpine Gaul by the Romans. They had also settled further north and then moved to modern Switzerland. Joining the Helvetii in their migration, they shared their defeat, but the Aedui persuaded Caesar not to send them back but settle them instead on devastated Aeduan lands.

Provincia/Gallia Transalpina/Gallia Narbonensis:

Narbo - This region had been annexed by the Romans in 125 BCE. Narbo was a colony planted there. Formerly it belonged to a small tribe called the Atacini. Massilia - A Greek colony founded about 600 BCE, it civilized the area and was allied with the Romans. It had to call them in when attacked by the Sallassi in 125 BCE and a province was set up around it. Massilia made the mistake of supporting Pompey in the Civil Wars at the end of the Republic. Unforgiven by Caesar, it was stripped of its territory and quickly lost its importance to nearby Arelate. Volcae - There were actually 2 branches of the Volcae, the Volcae-Tectosages living south of Narbo and the Volcae-Arecomici living north and east. They had a large treasure pillaged from them by the Romans in 106 BCE, which then mysteriously disappeared. The Volcae Tectosages had a capital at Baetera (Beziers). Allobroges - Lived between the Rhone, the Isere and Lake Geneva. Their chief town was Vienne. They had opposed Hannibal's passage of the Alps and failed. In this period they were not very enthusiastic for Roman rule either. Tolosates - This tribe lived around Tolosa (Toulouse). From the name they were likely Aquitanian, and probably forcibly incorporated in Gallia Transalpina.

Gallia Cisalpina/Rome:

Vercellae - Originally an oppidum of the Celtic Libici, they had been brought into the administration. Near here the Cimbri were finally defeated in 101 BCE. Genua - Originally Ligurian, Genua had been Roman since 218 BCE, except for a few years when Hannibal captured it. Taurini - A Celtic tribe probably based on modern Turin. Ingauni - A Ligurian tribe, their center was at Album (Albenga).

Vasconia:

Vascones - Were the Basques. Surprisingly there was not fierce resistance to the Romans, probably because Roman rule here was fairly light. Rome's occupation focused far more on the eastern passes through the Pyrenees. Autrigones - Possibly a sub-tribe of the Vascones and/or dependent on them. This tribe occupied lands between the Vascones to the east and the Cantabrii to the west, and probably had a constant balancing act to perform between these 2 powerful groups

Well, at least philologically "Meshech" and "Moschoi" are the same.
 Quoting: Ningishiddza


Blatantly false.


How we get there is the way in which the Greeks transliterated Hebrew words.

The three letter consonantal root was M/SH/CH. The pronunciation in Hebrew is unclear because Semitic langauages often interchanged 'o' and 'u' (and I'm no expert on Hebrew but I'll ask over at Hebrew Union).
 Quoting: Ningishiddza



As you said: …”ask over at Hebrew Union.”
Langauages = languages (you added “ag”, it’s fair to presume…)


Moshoi/Tabal remained in the area until at least the 6th Century CE, when they were driven into the Balkans by the advancing Bulgars, Czechs and Slovaks (and Ruthenians) who themselves where fleeing the Huns/Magyars.
 Quoting: Ningishiddza


It appears you failed to read or understand the Great Migrations.

Celtic tribes for whatever strange/bizarre/wondrous reason made repeated "tours" of Europe moving from the Caucus/Taurus Mountains north in the Isles, then south toward Spain then east back to the Caucaus/Taurus Mountains and then all over again.

They did that 3 times in the span of about 11,000 years.
 Quoting: Ningishiddza


There is no written documentation to support such claims.

Abovetopsecret forum. Good, reliable source for history.
Come on, Ningy!

It totally ignores the history and migrations of peoples from Scandanavia, primarily Sweden and Findland into the area of St Petersburg and south to present day Moscow.
 Quoting: Ningishiddza


You just did same thing too.
Maybe you should ask Zetas or phone the Nibiru.
Derek One Seven (Viable Light Being) on Spiritual warfare thread:

quote 1: 20-40, you seem to take a page out of Nazi Joesph Goebbells', and Adolf Hitler's handbooks (about need to repeat a lie) THEN:
quote 2: 20-40, it is of no surprise to me that you, an obviously concienceless pervert.
quote 3: 20-40, it is of no surprise to me that you, an obviously concienceless pervert.
quote 4: and you are a liar, with admitted connections to the CIA.
quote 5: you are a hypocritical pervert, with admitted connections to the CIA.
quote 6: you are an obvious concienceless hypocrite and pervert, 20-40.

Over and over and over and over. Same post with few sentences added or omitted, same lies and whatever I have tried to say, he has ignored it, and keep posting the same.
BTW, I swear on bible that I have never tried to warn him about misspelled word "concienceless".





GLP