Coptic Pope Says Roman Pope Comments On Islam Are "Against The Teachings Of Christ"

Jesus never hesitated to call a liar a liar and a hypocrite a hypocrite. Coptic Pope is plain wrong.

Excuse me, the Pope was not slamming Islam in his speech. He was quoting a Byzantine emperor and making a point about religions spreading faith through violence.

"In the seventh conversation (διάλεξις - controversy) edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: "There is no compulsion in religion". According to the experts, this is one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur'an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels", he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness, a brusqueness which leaves us astounded, on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached"."

[link to www.vatican.va]



It sure would sound insulting to Muslims. The Pope could quote night and day from now until his hundred and first brithday and not quote everything recorded from every Pope.

He could have said a million things other than this. His intent was incitement.

And nobodys fooled by it either.

I'm a Copt. Copts don't have it so good in Egypt right now. They're discriminated against heavily. They're not allowed to build churches. Occasionally their young women are abducted and forced into marrying a Muslim sheikh, with obvious police complicity. In some villages, their churches and businesses are firebombed almost routinely. And every few years, some Muslims will go into through a village just machine-gunning Copts indiscriminately.

When this happened in El Kosheh - 20 or so Copts were gunned down in the street and in the fields after a shopkeeper refused to extend a Muslim customer's tab - the Judge in the murder trial aquitted all the defendants. Not only that, he attached a lengthy written opinion to the ruling, accusing the families of the victims of being trouble makers trying to foment religious tension.

Pope Shenouda likes to say friendly concilliatory things because it could make the difference between life and death for his people.

Contend for The Faith, deliverd once for all.

Exactly why people like Daughter of Lebanon keep shilling for Hezbollah and looked for every possible way to twist the subject to their favor and justify it.

Good post. About time someone who's really a COPT offered an actual perspective to shoot down shills like Daughter of Lebanon.

Someone needs to check Popeye Ratzinger for a foreskin i beleive

Pope is doing the same hatchet job on christianity that Dubyas doing on the constitution

A total pre meditated advertised trashing of all thats sacred within its walls

LEsson 1 on \"how to make good things look bad\"

Keep the name the same to muddy it, then behave like a cunt in its name

simple

the people cry! this must stop ... then appear the solution ... they cant wait!

mindfuckery of the highest order

but check this, i know a lot of roman catholics, they all hate Ratzinger the nazi and call him so too

im glad im not religious id hate to have my earthly deity taken over by some shape shifting nazi pedo fuckhead whos main goal was to trash the joint

As fas as I can tell looking around in todays world. The Pope is right. As for this imposter the Coptic Pope. LOL! Christ would say even more then the Pope did.

Example..... Jee it's hard to find anything. Oh wait. Here we go.

KJMatt.23



"1": Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

"2": Saying, The scribes and the'> Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

"3": All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

"4": For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

"5": But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

"6": And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

"7": And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

"8": But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

"9": And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

"10": Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

"11": But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

"12": And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

"13": But woe unto you, scribes and'> Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

"14": Woe unto you, scribes and'> Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

"15": Woe unto you, scribes and'> Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

"16": Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

"17": Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

"18": And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

"19": Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

"20": Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

"21": And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

"22": And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

"23": Woe unto you, scribes and'> Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

"24": Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

"25": Woe unto you, scribes and'> Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

"26": Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

"27": Woe unto you, scribes and'> Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

"28": Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

"29": Woe unto you, scribes and'> Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

"30": And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

"31": Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

"32": Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

"33": Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

"34": Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

"35": That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

"36": Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

"37": O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

"38": Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

"39": For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

If Jesus was here on earth today he would rip a hole in Islam. No Doubt.

the only people Jesus would rip a whole in are the antichrists in the christian "church"

when he came the first time
it was the religious leaders who claimed to speak for God (Yahweh) that angered him

i think he would ignore islam, since they ignore him

i find it truly offensive, as a Copt, that anybody would call our pope an 'imposter'. in fact, our faith is older than the Catholic faith and has deep roots in shaping Christianity and maintaining its true peace-loving traditions. our church is 2000 years old and is as authentic a church as any other.

my family may have had a hard time in Egypt as Copts but never have i been taught to hate--- anybody.

i am proud to have a religious leader who works to create understanding and respect between different faiths. as a Christian it is not my job to judge or cause strife but to live my life as an example of what Christ taught: love, peace and faith.

it's good to know that Rome didn't subjugate your church like they did the early celtic church

Daugher of Lebanon is probably an unemployed 44 year old man who lives in Port Orford, Oregon.

..................................

To the above poster...probably not, just misguided.

To DOL.

You claim to be a Christian but your politics are glaringly "fruit not of that tree". The excuse you use above is easily refuted by those who can get off their ass and look.
The Qur'anic passage la ikraha fi d-dini ("there is no compulsion in religion") is generally understood to mean that no one should use compulsion against another in matters of faith. There is much to commend this interpretation. As it is understood here, the statement represents a principle which has gained a recognition of international dimensions: the principle of religious tolerance. Historically also the alleged meaning of la ikraha fi d-dini appears to be warranted. "The People of the Book", i.e., the members of the older revealed religions, particularly the Jews and the Christians, were in principle never compelled to accept Islam. They were obliged, while residing in territory under Islamic domination (dar al-Islam), only to recognize the supremacy of Muslims and, at the same time, as an external indication of this recognition, to pay a separate tax. In all other matters they could maintain their inherited beliefs and perform their practices as usual. They even were allowed to establish their own internal administration.

To be sure, however, the situation was different for members of the pre-Islamic pagan Arab society. After the community which the Prophet had established had extended its power over the whole of Arabia, the pagan Arabs were forcefully compelled to accept Islam; stated more accurately, they had to choose either to accept Islam or death in battle against the superior power of the Muslims (cf. surahs 8:12; 47:4). This regulation was later sanctioned in Islamic law. All this stands in open contradiction to the alleged meaning of the Quranic statement, noted above: la ikraha fi d-dini. The idolaters (mushrikun) were clearly compelled to accept Islam - unless they preferred to let themselves be killed.

In view of these circumstances it makes sense to consider another meaning. Perhaps originally the statement la ikraha fi d-dini did not mean that in matters of religion one ought not to use compulsion against another but that one could not use compulsion against another (through the simple proclamation of religious truth). This seems even more likely in the light of surah 10:100, 101:


And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would believe together. (Or "if thy Lord had willed, all who were on earth would have believed together".) Wouldst thou (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers (a-fa-anta tukrihu n-nasa hatta yakunu mu'minina)?
It is not for any soul to believe save by the permission of Allah. He has set uncleanness upon those who have no sense (and therefore remain hardened).

Compare Surah 12:103:


And though thou try much. most men will not believe.[14]
Both of these passages demonstrate that the Prophet's zeal to convert was doomed for the most part to be without success as a result of human recalcitrance. In agreement with this it is possible to understand la ikraha fi d-dini to mean that no one can be compelled to (right) belief. The statement of the Qur'an, then, would be not a proclamation of tolerance, but much more an expression of resignation. For a transition from la ikraha fi d-dini to the following portion of this verse (qad tabaiyana r-rushdu mina l-ghayi), something to this effect would have to be supplied if the meaning proposed here should agree: "(Since the individual cannot be compelled to truly believe by external influences, he must himself find a way to faith and that should not be difficult for him.) The correct way (of faith) has (through the proclamation of Islam) become clear (so that he can clearly be freed) from the error (of pagan unbelief)."

Whoever holds the interpretation of 2:256 as it has been presented above need not therefore simply cast overboard the meaning of the statement la ikraha fi d-dini as it usually has been understood for a long time. In the contemporary world of Islam the acknowledgement of religious tolerance is well established. And how can it be formulated more precisely than by the pregnant Arabic statement: la ikraha fi d-dini! Still the fact must always be kept in mind that in many ways the circumstances governing early Islam differed from those of today and that the presuppositions for a general and complete religious tolerance were not given at that time.

DoL, you are as boring as SoT.

To Daughter of Lebanon:

The civilized world is insulted and offended when your people cut off people's heads or blow up teenagers in cafes.

We are offended at your intolerance, lack of reason, lack of compassion, and lack of scholars who, if allowed, would state clearly and for the record that your "prophet" Mohammed, as indicated in your own "holy book" committed murder, and child molestation, and is therefore not worthy of anything but the world's CONTEMPT.

You are brainwashed from the day of your birth to believe in this vile, false religion, which God himself finds offensive.

The Pope proved his point. Islam is a violent religion.

duh!

[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]

america is violent
we have more people in prison than any other society

mostly for violent crimes

DoL says shes Christian.