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FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 70054369
Korea, Republic of
09/20/2015 07:16 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
guys i am scared i a m looking at netc.com and there is this thing by toledo has been at radcon 4 for a while, and is reading 387cpm, is it bad? i'm located north of it 40 miles i am very scared is it okay
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69627776


387 is significantly higher than background. I would be taking iodine.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63335944


Or a bus out of town. 397 cpm on a small, non-disk (tube) counter is the same as what I get at 25,000 feet. At sea level, that is abnormal.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70054369


But, if its a disk (not a tube) based counter than its not that high considering the greater surface area... check the counter type.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3068362
United States
09/21/2015 11:21 AM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
My phone call with NRC spokeswoman yesterday:
"IT WAS A VERY COMPLICATED SHUTDOWN, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT"

And its still going on. Day 4.

Enjoy ~

 Quoting: RadChick


Woah.... Fermi has a serious ongoing situation and this unprofessional sounding woman is the spokesperson they present to the public?


I tried to find updated info, but searches just keep bringing up article after article regarding the many other times Fermi had an issue or inexplicably sprung a leak in the cooling system.

Thanks for that video RadChick. It's the most current result that shows up in searches. Looks like you're the only one reporting on this thing!
RadChick  (OP)

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United States
09/21/2015 11:32 AM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
It takes a lot to break welds on big pipe. I work with heavy pipe called sched 80. That will never ever just break. The only way a leak can happen is that it overheated and overtime just let go, it froze and split, corrosion, bad welding or someone is deliberately cutting it.

The freezing and splitting is the first option to be eliminated.

Someone cutting it is probably not true either.

So it's corrosion or overheating.
Probably the whole plant is full of rotten pipe.
Pipes and valves and pumps need steady maintenance.
They have a FINITE lifespan. It should be no surprise when old pipe leaks.
 Quoting: Kris Dingleberry


The pipes and all other materials break down faster in high radiation fields. This has been known since the late 1940's when Dr Eugene Wigner (Jason Scientist) studied it at Oak Ridge Labs in Tennessee. We know this happenes in nuke plants...and I am of the opinion that this is why we are having so many breakdowns in the airline industry as well (flying through fallout for almost 5 years now).

Wigner effect.


Founder of Nuked Radio

Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect

”To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine
RadChick  (OP)

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United States
09/21/2015 11:33 AM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
guys i am scared i a m looking at netc.com and there is this thing by toledo has been at radcon 4 for a while, and is reading 387cpm, is it bad? i'm located north of it 40 miles i am very scared is it okay
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69627776


387 is significantly higher than background. I would be taking iodine.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63335944


I use topical iodine every day, I paint a small patch on my wrist. I have an enlarged thyroid diagnosed in 2012. They ultrasound it every 6 months to document the progression.
Founder of Nuked Radio

Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect

”To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine
Citizenperth

User ID: 66515138
Australia
09/21/2015 11:34 AM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
It takes a lot to break welds on big pipe. I work with heavy pipe called sched 80. That will never ever just break. The only way a leak can happen is that it overheated and overtime just let go, it froze and split, corrosion, bad welding or someone is deliberately cutting it.

The freezing and splitting is the first option to be eliminated.

Someone cutting it is probably not true either.

So it's corrosion or overheating.
Probably the whole plant is full of rotten pipe.
Pipes and valves and pumps need steady maintenance.
They have a FINITE lifespan. It should be no surprise when old pipe leaks.
 Quoting: Kris Dingleberry


The pipes and all other materials break down faster in high radiation fields. This has been known since the late 1940's when Dr Eugene Wigner (Jason Scientist) studied it at Oak Ridge Labs in Tennessee. We know this happenes in nuke plants...and I am of the opinion that this is why we are having so many breakdowns in the airline industry as well (flying through fallout for almost 5 years now).

Wigner effect.


 Quoting: RadChick


yup, and for those that don't know people as well....

thanks again for all that flight research you did...

must catch up sometime...

:)
It's life as we know it, but only just.
[link to citizenperth.wordpress.com]
sic ut vos es vos should exsisto , denego alius vicis facio vos change , exsisto youself , proprie
RadChick  (OP)

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United States
09/21/2015 11:38 AM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
bump

UPDATES ANYONE?
 Quoting: daughter in NYC


I will try to call the NRC back today. Currently the plant is still in shutdown and I was told from someone on the inside they have the reactor now shut down and cooled but they still don't know why the suction pumps shut down originally and caused a cascade of problems. They are thinking an electrical fault on the property. Also excessive build up of hydrogen in the system (which is bad, will cause explosion after hydrogen gets above 6% I believe) was also found, but that is NOT what caused the pumps to fail. Fermi will not be coming online anytime soon, this I was told Saturday.
Founder of Nuked Radio

Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect

”To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine
RadChick  (OP)

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United States
09/21/2015 11:43 AM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
It takes a lot to break welds on big pipe. I work with heavy pipe called sched 80. That will never ever just break. The only way a leak can happen is that it overheated and overtime just let go, it froze and split, corrosion, bad welding or someone is deliberately cutting it.

The freezing and splitting is the first option to be eliminated.

Someone cutting it is probably not true either.

So it's corrosion or overheating.
Probably the whole plant is full of rotten pipe.
Pipes and valves and pumps need steady maintenance.
They have a FINITE lifespan. It should be no surprise when old pipe leaks.
 Quoting: Kris Dingleberry


The pipes and all other materials break down faster in high radiation fields. This has been known since the late 1940's when Dr Eugene Wigner (Jason Scientist) studied it at Oak Ridge Labs in Tennessee. We know this happenes in nuke plants...and I am of the opinion that this is why we are having so many breakdowns in the airline industry as well (flying through fallout for almost 5 years now).

Wigner effect.


 Quoting: RadChick


yup, and for those that don't know people as well....

thanks again for all that flight research you did...

must catch up sometime...

:)
 Quoting: Citizenperth


More on Wigner here with list of short films about airlines. I have not updated the list here on glp because there was not enough interest at this time. There are 2 groups on facebook discussing and following Wigner:

Airline Anomalies Post Fukushima:
[link to www.facebook.com (secure)]

The Wigner Effect (Fukushima):
[link to www.facebook.com (secure)]

Thread with lots of info:
Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect
Founder of Nuked Radio

Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect

”To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine
daughter in NYC

User ID: 62217375
United States
09/21/2015 11:59 AM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
Hi Rad,
I suggested a pin and 5 stars....

I hope it brings awareness!

God Bless You and all the effortshf


bump
daughter in NYC
RadChick  (OP)

User ID: 56069360
United States
09/21/2015 12:09 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
It takes a lot to break welds on big pipe. I work with heavy pipe called sched 80. That will never ever just break. The only way a leak can happen is that it overheated and overtime just let go, it froze and split, corrosion, bad welding or someone is deliberately cutting it.

The freezing and splitting is the first option to be eliminated.

Someone cutting it is probably not true either.

So it's corrosion or overheating.
Probably the whole plant is full of rotten pipe.
Pipes and valves and pumps need steady maintenance.
They have a FINITE lifespan. It should be no surprise when old pipe leaks.
 Quoting: Kris Dingleberry


The pipes and all other materials break down faster in high radiation fields. This has been known since the late 1940's when Dr Eugene Wigner (Jason Scientist) studied it at Oak Ridge Labs in Tennessee. We know this happenes in nuke plants...and I am of the opinion that this is why we are having so many breakdowns in the airline industry as well (flying through fallout for almost 5 years now).

Wigner effect.


 Quoting: RadChick


This is a good one too:


Founder of Nuked Radio

Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect

”To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine
RadChick  (OP)

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United States
09/21/2015 12:10 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
Hi Rad,
I suggested a pin and 5 stars....

I hope it brings awareness!

God Bless You and all the effortshf


bump
 Quoting: daughter in NYC


Thank you!!

hf
Founder of Nuked Radio

Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect

”To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine
RadChick  (OP)

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United States
09/21/2015 12:12 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
FYI for those in Michigan, we had a problem at Palisades too (on the other side of the state) the very next day, turbine trip shut down the reactor.

The timing is interesting.

NRC report (scroll down event list for 9/16):
[link to www.nrc.gov]
Founder of Nuked Radio

Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect

”To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine
RadChick  (OP)

User ID: 56069360
United States
09/21/2015 12:16 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
Also problem at Palo Verde...are we getting power surges causing these problems?? A LOT of electrical issues over the weekend:

NOTIFICATION OF UNUSUAL EVENT DUE TO RAPID COMBUSTION OF A LOAD CENTER BREAKER

"The following event description is based on information currently available. If through subsequent reviews of this event, additional information is identified that is pertinent to this event, or alters the information being provided at this time a follow-up notification will be made via the ENS or under the reporting requirements of 10CFR50.73.

"Non Class Load Center Breaker, 2ENGN-L04 failed, resulting an a visible observation of rapid combustion and resultant charring (burned area) of the breaker enclosure and housing. No physical deformation to the breaker housing or surrounding area has been identified. The rapid combustion self-extinguished immediately following the audible and visible combustion event. As a result, an Emergency Classification of HU2.2, EXPLOSION was declared due to the Load Center breaker failure and noise and visible indication observed in the field.

Palo Verde is in Arizona.

[link to www.nrc.gov]
Founder of Nuked Radio

Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect

”To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine
Citizenperth

User ID: 66515138
Australia
09/21/2015 12:29 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
It takes a lot to break welds on big pipe. I work with heavy pipe called sched 80. That will never ever just break. The only way a leak can happen is that it overheated and overtime just let go, it froze and split, corrosion, bad welding or someone is deliberately cutting it.

The freezing and splitting is the first option to be eliminated.

Someone cutting it is probably not true either.

So it's corrosion or overheating.
Probably the whole plant is full of rotten pipe.
Pipes and valves and pumps need steady maintenance.
They have a FINITE lifespan. It should be no surprise when old pipe leaks.
 Quoting: Kris Dingleberry


The pipes and all other materials break down faster in high radiation fields. This has been known since the late 1940's when Dr Eugene Wigner (Jason Scientist) studied it at Oak Ridge Labs in Tennessee. We know this happenes in nuke plants...and I am of the opinion that this is why we are having so many breakdowns in the airline industry as well (flying through fallout for almost 5 years now).

Wigner effect.


 Quoting: RadChick


yup, and for those that don't know people as well....

thanks again for all that flight research you did...

must catch up sometime...

:)
 Quoting: Citizenperth


More on Wigner here with list of short films about airlines. I have not updated the list here on glp because there was not enough interest at this time. There are 2 groups on facebook discussing and following Wigner:

Airline Anomalies Post Fukushima:
[link to www.facebook.com (secure)]

The Wigner Effect (Fukushima):
[link to www.facebook.com (secure)]

Thread with lots of info:
Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect
 Quoting: RadChick


aaahh thanks!

been doing all sorts of random stuff lately news wise, so that would be cool to regain some focus... tankx
It's life as we know it, but only just.
[link to citizenperth.wordpress.com]
sic ut vos es vos should exsisto , denego alius vicis facio vos change , exsisto youself , proprie
RadChick  (OP)

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United States
09/21/2015 01:03 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
Just started a new thread there are so many electrical problems being posted late by NRC, almost all happened on 9/16!

Thread: 5 nuke plants 9/16 all had ELECTRICAL probs MI NY VA & AZ
Founder of Nuked Radio

Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect

”To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52181054
United States
09/21/2015 01:34 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
It takes a lot to break welds on big pipe. I work with heavy pipe called sched 80. That will never ever just break. The only way a leak can happen is that it overheated and overtime just let go, it froze and split, corrosion, bad welding or someone is deliberately cutting it.

The freezing and splitting is the first option to be eliminated.

Someone cutting it is probably not true either.

So it's corrosion or overheating.
Probably the whole plant is full of rotten pipe.
Pipes and valves and pumps need steady maintenance.
They have a FINITE lifespan. It should be no surprise when old pipe leaks.
 Quoting: Kris Dingleberry


or....they were incorrectly welded from day one
RadChick  (OP)

User ID: 56069360
United States
09/21/2015 02:05 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
It takes a lot to break welds on big pipe. I work with heavy pipe called sched 80. That will never ever just break. The only way a leak can happen is that it overheated and overtime just let go, it froze and split, corrosion, bad welding or someone is deliberately cutting it.

The freezing and splitting is the first option to be eliminated.

Someone cutting it is probably not true either.

So it's corrosion or overheating.
Probably the whole plant is full of rotten pipe.
Pipes and valves and pumps need steady maintenance.
They have a FINITE lifespan. It should be no surprise when old pipe leaks.
 Quoting: Kris Dingleberry


or....they were incorrectly welded from day one
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52181054


Always a possibility in da nukes ;)

For example Surry plant mentioned in new thread link - circa 1972/86

Events
• On July 27, 1972, two workers were fatally scalded after a routine valve adjustment led to a steam release in a gap in a vent line.

• On December 9, 1986, a steam explosion in the non-nuclear part of Unit 2 killed 4 workers. This was the worst accident in terms of human cost of any in the US commercial nuclear industry.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Founder of Nuked Radio

Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect

”To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2015 02:38 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
Hmmm makes you wonder if the claims of space weather having greater effect due to earth's weakening magnetic shield, just might be true?
RadChick  (OP)

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09/21/2015 02:44 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
Also will drop this here, as suggested in other thread:

Title: Department of Energy Hacked, No Classified Information Stolen
Source: Wall St. Journal
Author: Rachael King
Date: February 4, 2013, 5:42 PM ET

[...] One concern with the recent breach is that hackers may want to use the compromised employee data to target the National Nuclear Security Administration, a semi-autonomous agency within the U.S. Department of Energy that manages the U.S. nuclear weapons stockpile, among other efforts. [...]

[link to enenews.com]
Founder of Nuked Radio

Thread: MAYDAY: The Wigner Effect

”To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
~Thomas Paine
aHEMagain^2

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United States
09/21/2015 03:19 PM
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Re: FERMI 2 REACTOR MICHIGAN - ONGOING EVENT - BIG PROBLEMS
Right now they are manually controlling feedwater (to keep hot rods covered) and the pressure in reactor vessel by playing with the relief valves...

They are still trying to find the second leak. It must be a biggie to drop in danger zone twice for one event.
 Quoting: RadChick

I can't read through the whole thread right now, so some of this may already be covered.

This is no longer an "ongoing event" as defined by the NRC, which is why Event Number 51391 isn't listed on the Event Notification Report for September 16, 2015 [link to www.nrc.gov]

That means, from this point forward, we won't have any updates on what's going on unless another reportable event takes place. In that case, a new Event Number will be issued. If the plant receives enough calls from the media, they might issue a press release. Since their initial release on this event lied about what happened and low-balled the risks, we have no reason to believe any updates will be accurate either.

We can check the daily Reactor Status Reports [link to www.nrc.gov] to see when they restart the reactor. The status reports only display the reactor power level. Additional details are added to the daily reports 28 days after they're issued. Today's report [link to www.nrc.gov] shows Fermi 2 (in Region 3) at 0% power.

Here is the daily status report for Aug. 24, 2015. This is the most recent report to have additional details added, just so you can see what kinds of "further details" about this event we can expect. [link to www.nrc.gov]

A Preliminary Notification of Event or Unusual Occurrence (PNO-III-15-009) was issued on Sept. 15, 2015. There is an important detail mentioned.

"At 11:05 p.m. (EDT) on September 13, 2015, operators manually shut down (scrammed) Fermi 2 from 100 percent power after attempts to correct a malfunction of a nonsafety-related cooling water system in the turbine building were unsuccessful and the three pumps in the system shut down. The malfunction arose earlier that evening while operators were working on the cooling water system heat exchangers." -- [link to pbadupws.nrc.gov]

This is essentially the same info as presented in the Daily Event Notification report, but the order of events is off. This and other reasons I'll go into later lead me to suspect the fuel was uncovered for longer than the 5 minutes implied (but not explicitly stated) in the Daily Event Notification report.

The leak was only unisolable, not unlocatable. From E#-51391, "The leak rate was reported as approximately 5-10 gallons per minute from a weld on the standby feedwater pump header drain valve...the leak stopped once RCIC was placed into service."

I'm very concerned about one of the updates on E#-51391. It mentions that because they're juggling to reactor pressure manually, they had a "Reactor Water Level 3" condition.

3.3.1 Purpose
A Level 3 trip indicates that the water level in the reactor vessel has dropped, and a continued decrease in level would cause steam to bypass the seal skirts of the
separators or dryers.
Generally, this is indicative of a significant problem with the level control system or reactor feedwater system." -- [link to pbadupws.nrc.gov]

As long as they're able to keep RPV Level and Pressure stable through manual operation of the Safety Relief Valves, there shouldn't be any further problems.

Hope springs eternal.

aHEMagain
"And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper piece harlot."
-- Vaarsuvius, The Order of the Stick [link to tvtropes.org]
"History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme" -- Mark Twain
"It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.-- William Clifford [link to myweb.lmu.edu]





GLP