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What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!

 
Monotheism

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09/27/2015 03:59 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Herp unitarians are heretics derp. pick

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' John 20:17
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2015 04:13 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
...


This trinity doctrine existed before the Roman Catholic church took over around 313-400 A.d.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68617918


No, it most definitely did not. It was officially adopted at the First council of Constantinople in 381 AD, and it still took several centuries to fully develop the doctrines.
 Quoting: Monotheism


It was a view held by the Church fathers before the First Council of Constantinople.

It was only had to be adopted as an offical statement as response to the heresy known was Arianism, which is same heresy you Unitarians adopted in the 1500's.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68782876


Nope. Arianism was debated at Nicea 56 years earlier not Constantinople, and even Nicea didn't present a developed trinity. And this is almost four centuries after Jesus. Fact is the holy spirit wasn't even promoted to person- and Godhood at Nicea. And even after Nicea several bishops retracted the votes they felt they were pressured into. Constantine himself also converted back to Arianism and Arianism remained the dominant faith in East Rome. The trinity was invented between the 4th and 7th century after Jesus' earthly ministry. A man-made lie.

Not that I care about any of this; I don't do man-made doctrines invented by apostate bishopes. According to the Bible, Jesus, God Himself, the prophets of the Most High God, there is one Most High God, YHWH alone. Jesus called Him Father. According to your own words, Jesus was a heretic. That says all I need to know about your faith.
 Quoting: Monotheism


The whole point of the Nicene creed which came out of the Nicene Counsel is an affirmation of the trinity and a rejection of Arianism.

The Nicene Creed's central term, used to describe the relationship between the Father and the Son, is "Homoousios" or "Consubstantiality", meaning "of the same substance" or "of one being".

Arius himself recanted of Arianism and was as received to communion on the strength of the confession of faith he had presented to Constantine a few years before at Council of Tyre (335 AD). It seems that after his death Arianism was again condemned at the First Council of Constantinople for posterity reasons.
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2015 04:35 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
What's your point?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41461190


If you are going to attack them-attack their central belief system (if u have a problem with it)
 Quoting: Oxi moran


The only thing I have a problem with, is their idolatry, calling Priest's and the Popes, their "Father", as well as Catholic Dogma, that is contrary, and their Nicoletian way's.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70410475


We don't worship idols . Statues are reminders of who we are praying to . The saints , Pope and priests have God's ear, we ask them to intercede for us. We worship God ,Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity. We pray directly to God but everyone can use help that's why we ask the priests and Pope to pray for us and the Pope does the same because He knows He's not God, only his representative in our church , a reminder . Sometimes people need visual effects .
Monotheism

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09/27/2015 04:37 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
...


No, it most definitely did not. It was officially adopted at the First council of Constantinople in 381 AD, and it still took several centuries to fully develop the doctrines.
 Quoting: Monotheism


It was a view held by the Church fathers before the First Council of Constantinople.

It was only had to be adopted as an offical statement as response to the heresy known was Arianism, which is same heresy you Unitarians adopted in the 1500's.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68782876


Nope. Arianism was debated at Nicea 56 years earlier not Constantinople, and even Nicea didn't present a developed trinity. And this is almost four centuries after Jesus. Fact is the holy spirit wasn't even promoted to person- and Godhood at Nicea. And even after Nicea several bishops retracted the votes they felt they were pressured into. Constantine himself also converted back to Arianism and Arianism remained the dominant faith in East Rome. The trinity was invented between the 4th and 7th century after Jesus' earthly ministry. A man-made lie.

Not that I care about any of this; I don't do man-made doctrines invented by apostate bishopes. According to the Bible, Jesus, God Himself, the prophets of the Most High God, there is one Most High God, YHWH alone. Jesus called Him Father. According to your own words, Jesus was a heretic. That says all I need to know about your faith.
 Quoting: Monotheism


The whole point of the Nicene creed which came out of the Nicene Counsel is an affirmation of the trinity and a rejection of Arianism.

The Nicene Creed's central term, used to describe the relationship between the Father and the Son, is "Homoousios" or "Consubstantiality", meaning "of the same substance" or "of one being".

Arius himself recanted of Arianism and was as received to communion on the strength of the confession of faith he had presented to Constantine a few years before at Council of Tyre (335 AD). It seems that after his death Arianism was again condemned at the First Council of Constantinople for posterity reasons.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68782876


No, the whole point of Nicea was not affirming the unexisting trinity, because there was no trinity even immediately after Nicea. Haven't you even read the original Nicene Creed? There's no trinity, at most there are the early outlines of a binity. And Arianism was still widespread even after Nicea.

The holy spirit wasn't even promoted to person- and Godhood until the Council of Constantinople in 381. And the decision wasn't even ecumenical. Emperor Theodosius had already enforced the trinity via the Edict of Thessalonica preceding the council. Get it? You precious trinity idol wasn't even fully invented at councils, but via an imperial edict authored by a recently converted pagan dictator. And it was enforced by the sword.

And even after Constantinople we're still a century away from the invention of foundational doctrines like the hypostatic union. And you mention the doctrine of them being homoousios. The divine substance/essence/ousia. Where's that in the Bible? Chapter and verse? Even when they adopted the term the bishops hesitated knowing fully well is was a Gnostic term. The same term was rejected in Pre-Ecumenical synods, but accepted when emperor Constantine was its main proponent. How curious. And no, Arius never recanted of Arianism. Arius came to Tyre to apologize? What ar you even talking about? The synod rules in favour of Arius and marked the first exile of Athanasius. Rather it was Constantine that converted. And the church was predominantly Arian before Theodosius came to power and began to purge the church. If it matters.

But it's not like I care about the doctrines, power strugggles and corruption of man-made institutions anyway. YHWH is my God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. His worl is my authority.

Last Edited by Monotheism on 09/27/2015 05:02 PM
Monotheism

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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
What's your point?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41461190


If you are going to attack them-attack their central belief system (if u have a problem with it)
 Quoting: Oxi moran


The only thing I have a problem with, is their idolatry, calling Priest's and the Popes, their "Father", as well as Catholic Dogma, that is contrary, and their Nicoletian way's.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70410475


We don't worship idols . Statues are reminders of who we are praying to . The saints , Pope and priests have God's ear, we ask them to intercede for us. We worship God ,Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity. We pray directly to God but everyone can use help that's why we ask the priests and Pope to pray for us and the Pope does the same because He knows He's not God, only his representative in our church , a reminder . Sometimes people need visual effects .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62580106


The trinity is an idol. You also worship bread as God. Not the representation of God. Never mind the statues. You worship bread as de facto being God. That is the very definition of idolatry.
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2015 04:43 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Argue all you want to folks, but you're never going to get it resolved. I don't understand why there is so much hatred of the RCC, especially from people who call themselves "Christians". Nice example of living like Christ with all that hatred in your heart and the foul words from your mouths. Idiots.

Besides, if you all aren't following Torah, then you're not very good believers anyhow. How many of you went to church or to mass this morning? You did NOT honor the Sabbath nor keep it holy by attending church or mass on Sunday.

However, keep bickering back and forth and acting like animals. Then you can go to church and be forgiven for acting like assholes next week and we can keep doing this shit forever.
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2015 04:47 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
...


If you are going to attack them-attack their central belief system (if u have a problem with it)
 Quoting: Oxi moran


The only thing I have a problem with, is their idolatry, calling Priest's and the Popes, their "Father", as well as Catholic Dogma, that is contrary, and their Nicoletian way's.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70410475


We don't worship idols . Statues are reminders of who we are praying to . The saints , Pope and priests have God's ear, we ask them to intercede for us. We worship God ,Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity. We pray directly to God but everyone can use help that's why we ask the priests and Pope to pray for us and the Pope does the same because He knows He's not God, only his representative in our church , a reminder . Sometimes people need visual effects .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62580106


The trinity is an idol. You also worship bread as God. Not the representation of God. Never mind the statues. You worship bread as de facto being God. That is the very definition of idolatry.
 Quoting: Monotheism

We don't worship bread. We worship God . Bread is a visual effect.
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2015 04:52 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
The pope just gave a hard hitting no holes barred homily.

And we believe in transubstantiation.
Monotheism

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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
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The only thing I have a problem with, is their idolatry, calling Priest's and the Popes, their "Father", as well as Catholic Dogma, that is contrary, and their Nicoletian way's.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70410475


We don't worship idols . Statues are reminders of who we are praying to . The saints , Pope and priests have God's ear, we ask them to intercede for us. We worship God ,Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity. We pray directly to God but everyone can use help that's why we ask the priests and Pope to pray for us and the Pope does the same because He knows He's not God, only his representative in our church , a reminder . Sometimes people need visual effects .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62580106


The trinity is an idol. You also worship bread as God. Not the representation of God. Never mind the statues. You worship bread as de facto being God. That is the very definition of idolatry.
 Quoting: Monotheism

We don't worship bread. We worship God . Bread is a visual effect.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62580106


No. You're not familiar with you own doctrines. According to the doctrine of transubstantiation the bread literally becomes the actual physical body of Christ. Not figuratively. His acual presence. You're cannibalizing on Jesus. And Eucharistic adoration, according to Catholic dogma, is worshipping his actual presence. Not his figurative presence. Worshipping a piece of bread. That is idolatry.

But hey, don't take my word for it:

[link to forums.catholic.com]
[link to forums.catholic.com]
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2015 05:23 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Actually, if you remove the word "Catholic" from it, it's what all Christians believe...


The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
 Quoting: abeliever


Correct! Nothing "catholic" about the Nicene Creed, it is a statement of faith outlining basic Christian precepts.


Of course, no reason for a statement of faith at all...
But was surprised that it took 70-some posts before the prayer/statement was presented.


The Problem with catholics is their leadership, the rcc hierarchy going back to emperor constantine 200ad.

In 200ad the hierarchy diverged from The Gospel.
Martin Luther finally addressed most of the apostasies.

Think it was NOT Father God WHO Enabled The Reformation?

catholics stay immersed in their catechism, rely on their priests, and basically give no more thought to Father God and HIS Son than what reminders they get at the occasional mass. The mass celebrates Christ's murder, not HIS Witness and THE WAY HIS Sacrifice Enabled.

Impossible to correlate HIS Witness In The Gospel with what the rcc declares. Of course, you would have to Love Christ and Father-God more than you trust the dogma decided by men. That is true of other Christians as well.

Matt 22:1-14 is The Whole Enchilada of Christianity: Father-God Desiring those HE Called to Abide and Live In and With HIM. "Marvel not that I say unto you, YE Must BE Born-Again!" But, let's forget Jesus' only Witness which uses a MUST Directive! Forget that though, for sure HE don't mean it...


catholic faith is really the thing.
It ain't Faith In God, it's faith in the church structure, the priesthood, the many apostasies that aren't Scriptural, and faith that God Knows you mean well.

Funny, how Laodicean Christians of all flavors can't answer God's Call On Their Heart...


Jesus Witnesses that HE Will REJECT those who did "Miracles, Cast-Out demons, and Prophesied IN HIS Name". Matt 7:22.

Jesus says in Matt 7:21 that HE ONLY KNOWS those "Who DO The Will Of MY Father Which Art In Heaven".

Only ONE WAY To Be Enabled to KNOW and DO Father's Will: Be Born-Again per Ezekiel 36:26-27; but let's disregard Father God's Declared Desire to Give us "A New Heart Of Flesh" and let's forget HE ever Said HE Would then Enable us to KNOW and DO HIS Will and "Keep HIS Statutes" which means to live w/o sin...

Forget all that shit.
You Laodicean Hebrews 12 Bastards of all faiths have done so!

catholics will ride their pony of denial all the way to the end of the line.


IT IS God that matters, not some fucking organization run as a cult and in dysfunction and denial of God!


Time To TRUST God Fully and Give HIM your life if you would BE HIS.

Only KNOWING God matters. Such is Jesus' Witness.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
...


Op I know that to attack an institution you must understand what they stand-what is there universal belief- everything is just interpret ion!
 Quoting: Oxi moran



Ahh I see the problem clearly. Your self identity is so wrapped up in the organization that you interpret an attack on that organization as an attack on you.

The problem is not Catholic people Op. It's the organization.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70389926


So let me get this straight you can't find anything in their central document to criticize?
 Quoting: Oxi moran

P
I was born and raised Catholic.. I have a lot to criticize about the Catholic church.

In the creed, they claim to be apostolic - or teachings relating to the 12 apostles... who were taught by Jesus.
As a former Catholic, it made me sick to see the pomp and circumstance, opulance, gold all over the place on the altars, and male clergy taking up half of the churches during the Pope's masses. It was disgusting.

They should be in sack cloth and selling all that gold and giving the monies to the poor. It's so much against what Christ taught.

This pope must have been nauseated from all of the pomcircumstance. The only time he smiled was when he was with the poor. This is what Christ taught.

All true.

Those masses should have been filled with the poor people, not clergy first and wealthy people who won church lotteries to gain an inside ticket. Seriously.

I'm on a rant because the Catholic church is not walking the walk and is just talking the talk of what Christ taught his apostles. Seriously...teeshirts and Pope swag?

What would Christ want from an apostolic church?
Shed the glitzy uniforms, and sell the gold...
Go serve others...and for God sake, feed the poor!
 Quoting: abeliever


All true. Yet

"Upon this rock
I shall build my church"

It is still the one true church
I forgive mans constructs
And see through to God. Jesus
And the Holy Spirit

Peace be with you
Anonymous Coward
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
...


The only thing I have a problem with, is their idolatry, calling Priest's and the Popes, their "Father", as well as Catholic Dogma, that is contrary, and their Nicoletian way's.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70410475


We don't worship idols . Statues are reminders of who we are praying to . The saints , Pope and priests have God's ear, we ask them to intercede for us. We worship God ,Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity. We pray directly to God but everyone can use help that's why we ask the priests and Pope to pray for us and the Pope does the same because He knows He's not God, only his representative in our church , a reminder . Sometimes people need visual effects .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62580106


The trinity is an idol. You also worship bread as God. Not the representation of God. Never mind the statues. You worship bread as de facto being God. That is the very definition of idolatry.
 Quoting: Monotheism

We don't worship bread. We worship God . Bread is a visual effect.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62580106

I was trying to explain to a non-believer, baby steps.
Monotheism

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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Correct! Nothing "catholic" about the Nicene Creed, it is a statement of faith outlining basic Christian precepts.


Of course, no reason for a statement of faith at all...
But was surprised that it took 70-some posts before the prayer/statement was presented.


The Problem with catholics is their leadership, the rcc hierarchy going back to emperor constantine 200ad.

In 200ad the hierarchy diverged from The Gospel.
Martin Luther finally addressed most of the apostasies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70260010


Eh? Make up mind, Lester. Did the hierarchy introduced by Constantine diverge from the gospel or present the "statement of faith outlining basic Christian precepts"? Because the Nicene Creed came about after a council convened and overseen by no other than Constantine, and this was in 325 AD,not 200 AD. And it not even the Nicene Creed you're replying to,but the revised Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed.
Lester
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09/27/2015 05:39 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
"Do this in Remembrance Of ME!"
Communion is a commemoration.
There is no "transubstantiation" of elements.

Why should there be?

Christ Gave HIS Life To Enable you to LIVE your Daily Life In Communion With Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Jesus Says So, in John ch 17. HIS Witness Given as a Prayer, of those WHO Are HIS, The Very Elect; those Born-Again.

John 17 Witnesses that We Who Are HIS are Preserved against all evil. Preserved. Protected. Delivered. Passed-Over by evil... None who ARE HIS need reconciliation or communion. WE LIVE IN And WITH HIM and Father-God!

God The Father Has Given you "A New Heart Of HIS Flesh" if you were Born-Again! Ezekiel 36:26... In verse 27 HE SAYS HE WILL Enable Us To KNOW and DO HIS Will and Live Without sinning!

God's WORD.
Christ IS The Word Become Flesh!!!

Deny Father's Word, you deny Christ and all that is Holy~!

rcc makes habit of denying The Word...



But these ARE The Final Moments, and I am witnessing to you that you can still Come Unto The Father Through Christ Jesus!

Just depends on manifesting your LOVE and Taking John 3:14 "action". Faith w/o works (action) is dead...

Gonna Claim HIM, but never proclaimed and acted on your Love? Never Told Father that you Trust HIM Fully and Completely with Every Aspect of your life???

Why do you think you were given life anyway?
So you could Come Unto The Father!


Mired in the dysfunction that is your religion and your self-will. Laodiceans. Paul Calls you "Bastards, not Sons" in Hebrews 12:8 and BY God his Witness is True~!

From Ezekiel ch 36:
26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

From Matt ch 7:
21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
***but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.***
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works.

23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



Don't got enough Faith to Trust God Fully and Give HIM your life?

Then you are nobody to HIM...
Lester
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09/27/2015 05:43 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Jesus' Last Witness before being taken from gaethsemane. The ONLY Witness HE Ever Gave As A Prayer!!!

This Given To Those Who ARE HIS... See your life described here? You should, if you claim HIM...

John 17


1. These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2. As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.


9. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


13. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.


17. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Monotheism

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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
...


We don't worship idols . Statues are reminders of who we are praying to . The saints , Pope and priests have God's ear, we ask them to intercede for us. We worship God ,Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity. We pray directly to God but everyone can use help that's why we ask the priests and Pope to pray for us and the Pope does the same because He knows He's not God, only his representative in our church , a reminder . Sometimes people need visual effects .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62580106


The trinity is an idol. You also worship bread as God. Not the representation of God. Never mind the statues. You worship bread as de facto being God. That is the very definition of idolatry.
 Quoting: Monotheism

We don't worship bread. We worship God . Bread is a visual effect.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62580106

I was trying to explain to a non-believer, baby steps.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62580106


No, you weren't. And that's not an accurate explanation anyway, but a grave misunderstanding. You weren't familiar with your own false doctrines that's all. Now you know. The next logial step would be rejecting them and acknowledging how false and utterly blasphemous they are.
Lester
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09/27/2015 05:46 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Correct! Nothing "catholic" about the Nicene Creed, it is a statement of faith outlining basic Christian precepts.


Of course, no reason for a statement of faith at all...
But was surprised that it took 70-some posts before the prayer/statement was presented.


The Problem with catholics is their leadership, the rcc hierarchy going back to emperor constantine 200ad.

In 200ad the hierarchy diverged from The Gospel.
Martin Luther finally addressed most of the apostasies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70260010


Eh? Make up mind, Lester. Did the hierarchy introduced by Constantine diverge from the gospel or present the "statement of faith outlining basic Christian precepts"? Because the Nicene Creed came about after a council convened and overseen by no other than Constantine, and this was in 325 AD,not 200 AD. And it not even the Nicene Creed you're replying to,but the revised Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed.
 Quoting: Monotheism


Council of Nicea 500ad
Constantine 300ad


Pity that the rcc couldn't stick to the basics and find their way to Trust God Fully; but then it would be aligned with God rather than in opposition to HIM.
Lester
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09/27/2015 05:52 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Will never see catholics discuss Jesus or The Gospel.

Certainly they can't reconcile John's first epistle with their "faith".

Their "faith" ain't in God, but in the church and all its revelations.


They even have to twist Matt 16 to validate their papal lineage. Look below; Christ Witnesses that KNOWLEDGE OF WHO HE IS is put on our heart ONLY By Father-God.

Therefore is is KNOWING WHO HE IS that is "the rock" upon which HIS Church is built.

If Father Called your heart, you got to KNOW WHO Jesus IS...

13. When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, "Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?"

14. And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16. And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.


17. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Monotheism

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09/27/2015 05:57 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Correct! Nothing "catholic" about the Nicene Creed, it is a statement of faith outlining basic Christian precepts.


Of course, no reason for a statement of faith at all...
But was surprised that it took 70-some posts before the prayer/statement was presented.


The Problem with catholics is their leadership, the rcc hierarchy going back to emperor constantine 200ad.

In 200ad the hierarchy diverged from The Gospel.
Martin Luther finally addressed most of the apostasies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70260010


Eh? Make up mind, Lester. Did the hierarchy introduced by Constantine diverge from the gospel or present the "statement of faith outlining basic Christian precepts"? Because the Nicene Creed came about after a council convened and overseen by no other than Constantine, and this was in 325 AD,not 200 AD. And it not even the Nicene Creed you're replying to,but the revised Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed.
 Quoting: Monotheism


Council of Nicea 500ad
Constantine 300ad


Pity that the rcc couldn't stick to the basics and find their way to Trust God Fully; but then it would be aligned with God rather than in opposition to HIM.
 Quoting: Lester 70260010


No, the council of Nicea was convened by Constantine in 325 AD. The next council was the first Council of Constantinople convened by emperor Theodosius in 381 which marked the full-blown apostasy of adopting the trinity. This council was preceded by an imperial edict forcing all Roman subjects, pagans and Christians alike, to accept the trinity and the Christendom of Alexandria and Rome or suffer the consequences. Not unlike a certain mark by a certain beast.
Lester
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09/27/2015 06:05 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Like mud wrestling with a pig.
Witnessing to catholics, I mean...


No heart for God or HIS Son.
Not enough to HEAR The Gospel manifest their hearts To God.


Not enough Love For God to listen with open mind and heart.
Afraid that others who Proclaim Their Love For Christ and Father are trying to seduce them...

Such dysfunction.
Engendered and cultivated by the priesthood and nuns.

Yet, it comes down to pretense rather than form.
Like Northern Ireland's "troubles".
Both sides use religion as pretense to validate their politics.


Claim Christ, but give HIM no thought or meditation.
Certainly Father-God is out of the picture.
What is the focus of rcc?
Mary and mother-church...
Forget about God, we got goddess/co-redemptress, "the mother of God" as if God can have a "mother"...


Mud wrestling with Pigs.
Yet, even the pigs KNOW Innately WHO Christ and Father God are! Even the rocks in the field bend their knee at HIS Name! Not catholics. Not willing to seek or learn. Unable to Hear or See The Gospel. Put their Belief and trust in men...

Oh well...
Monotheism

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09/27/2015 06:09 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Like mud wrestling with a pig.
Witnessing to catholics, I mean...


No heart for God or HIS Son.
Not enough to HEAR The Gospel manifest their hearts To God.


Not enough Love For God to listen with open mind and heart.
Afraid that others who Proclaim Their Love For Christ and Father are trying to seduce them...

Such dysfunction.
Engendered and cultivated by the priesthood and nuns.

Yet, it comes down to pretense rather than form.
Like Northern Ireland's "troubles".
Both sides use religion as pretense to validate their politics.


Claim Christ, but give HIM no thought or meditation.
Certainly Father-God is out of the picture.
What is the focus of rcc?
Mary and mother-church...
Forget about God, we got goddess/co-redemptress, "the mother of God" as if God can have a "mother"...


Mud wrestling with Pigs.
Yet, even the pigs KNOW Innately WHO Christ and Father God are! Even the rocks in the field bend their knee at HIS Name! Not catholics. Not willing to seek or learn. Unable to Hear or See The Gospel. Put their Belief and trust in men...

Oh well...
 Quoting: Lester 70260010


You're not witnessing, you're talking to yourself as usual. Are you calling me a Catholic? What could have possibly gven you that impression? You're too preoccupied with your own yapping to stop and listen. What is God's name then? Never heard you mentioning it, yet you witness here all the time.
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2015 07:25 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Mono...

Christ Jesus Discussed what Witness is with Nicodemus. "What WE Have Seen and Know" is how HE Phrased it. HE also stated that Nic was unable to grasp or accept HIS Witness. Imagine that! Knee to knee with Jesus and unable to make the Leap Of Faith, to Come Into Knowing... Yet, The Father Jesus Says, Gives us To Know WHO HE IS. That Knowing is "the rock".


Knowing WHO Jesus IS is all we have to Know to take action. In taking action, our Leap Of Faith, the John 3:14 Lifting-Up The Son Of Man, we Come Unto The Father.

You want HIS Name? When I made my surrender I said I was giving my life to God The Father, YahWEh, Elohim, Jehovah, Abba and any other name I could remember HIM using to Reveal HIMSELF to us.

Never Given Witness to be concerned with "holy names" as some seem to be. My life is lived In Constant Contact With God and I Know HIS Voice, Smell, and Touch.


I also Know catholicism, having been Delivered from its dysfunction and completely human rationalizations.

I don't care what you are; I address all the readers on these threads, nothing personal unless it needs to be.



Final moments, but I have been witnessing that for 11+ years here... Father Has BEEN Merciful and Generous with HIS time; yet soon The Age Of Faith will conclude.

My witness is plain and given constantly if have heart to see and hear it. Time To Decide If You Would BE HIS and Take Action!

If you were Born-Again you would recognize my voice or the witness it carries to be more accurate.

Anyway God's Will IS Always Perfect!
Nothing I do For HIM is of-myself.
If my witness registers on your heart, I am grateful!
If not, I was Blessed to have been Given to write it.


Final Moments...
Maranatha!!!
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2015 07:36 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Proud Roman Catholic here. I pray one day you all see the folly of your hatred. May God forgive you. Go in peace.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70110795


...please remember your own words when you are leaving the church along with all others pulling out in front of each other honking and shaking their fists. Most dangerous time is when catholic mass lets out saturday and sunday mass. Catholics leaving the parking lot are some of the most rude drivers. practise what is preached.

.
Lester
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09/27/2015 08:31 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Proud Roman Catholic here. I pray one day you all see the folly of your hatred. May God forgive you. Go in peace.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70110795


...please remember your own words when you are leaving the church along with all others pulling out in front of each other honking and shaking their fists. Most dangerous time is when catholic mass lets out saturday and sunday mass. Catholics leaving the parking lot are some of the most rude drivers. practise what is preached.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63535874


Sure right about the vicious drivers leaving church.


As to the "folly of your hatred" above...

Any former catholic, who has become Born-Again, KNOWS the deceptions and fears that are imprinted on parishioners to keep them in the fold. Nobody who Loves Christ is going to do you any harm, threaten your soul, or tell you any lies.

There is REALITY in Relationship With God through surrender of self, the Coming Unto The Father...

Knowing HIM Enables Knowing HIS Truth. St. John says, "But you have An Unction From The Holy One and KNOW All Things".

Knowing Christ Jesus and Father God Personally and Directly along with God The Holy Spirit Who Dwells Within.

If you Love God and Know WHO Jesus IS, it is because Father Has Called you...

the rcc chose to deny Father's Plan and denies The Gospel.
They deny the Witness St. John gives in 1st Epistle 2:27
"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

John's Witness shows the rcc dogma is alienated from God's Plan.


Anyone sharing God's Truth with you has Love For HIM and your well-being at heart. Might consider what life With God Guiding you would be like? Living life In HIS Accord, and doing HIS Will.

catholicism panders to your carnal nature and engages it, rather than giving witness that God Wants To Deliver us from it!

Do you truly Love God, or does your religious institution mean more?

That is waht this comes down to.
Leo
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09/28/2015 03:49 AM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Catholics - followers of the Pope, a man - a human being, only - they are learning the rules of the political institution of the Papacy, Headquarter in Rome, as Vatican state.
Christians - followers of the Jesus Christ - the Lord as the Son, the Head of the Church.
--------------------
Obviously, is nothing in Papacy politics coming from Nicene Crede, only similar words, dressing and some visual playing.

Have a look (and is not a complete list):
The true and only Christian is not believing in:
1. - filioque (denies that the Holy Spirit comes from the Father only! says is coming from the Son, too) – this lowers the Father importance and removes the Holy Spirit from the Trinity
2. theories (of Papacy) on the analogia entis and analogia fidei
3. teaching (of Papacy) on the „absolute vocation”
4. teaching (of Papacy) on the „primordial/Adamic sin” inheritance
5. Confusion between non-created Energy and the created Energy:
a) The Ortodoxy:
- Lord has a not-Created being AND a not-Created work/Energy
- and He comes to the man through this not-Created work/Energy
b) The Papacy:
- The Lord has not-Created being AS THE SAME AS a not-Created work/Energy (they’re confounded!)
- and He comes to the man through other, Created work/Energy
Meaning that “in” the Lord there is Created Energy, as well – and is not pure and holy simply because the Pope’s teaching brings the conclusion that the Holy Spirit is not holy, and the Trinity is not true, anymore…
6. - infailibility of a human being, a man - the Pope;is presumed that he is always right and the Lord was wrong to have so many problems…
7. – Primate - supremacy of a human being, the Pope to pray!
As a substitute of a living Lord, “found” –for ever - dead and away from the earthly life…
8. - purgatorium (only Heavens and Hell)
9. - immaculate conception of Mary (she was born from human beings conception, can note be the Holy Quatro-nity!))
….
In addition,
10. The Christian is not using yeast for the holy bread as Pope's followers and Jews do use yeast. (Eucharisty)
11. The Christian believes in substantiality end prays to Holy Spirit, the Pope's followers do not but trans- substantiality, kind of witchcraft…
12. The Christian baptize by immersing three times… and chrism the new born as soon as possible to shield the child against evil influence; the Pope followers do not... they pretend to baptize by spraying or pouring some little amount of water toward a grown-up individual…
13. The Priests singleness (celibate) is forbidden by the Christianity; the monks and nuns must live in singleness, isolated... to find peace to pray and avoid social temptations…
14. And the forgiveness of the sins by the Pope... absurd, they can't know the God's will and justice but he wants to have the absolute decision on life and death matter... sins can be forgiven only by the Lord, by confession, true sorrow and correction of the sinner.
Monotheism

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09/28/2015 01:08 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
Catholics - followers of the Pope, a man - a human being, only - they are learning the rules of the political institution of the Papacy, Headquarter in Rome, as Vatican state.
Christians - followers of the Jesus Christ - the Lord as the Son, the Head of the Church.
--------------------
Obviously, is nothing in Papacy politics coming from Nicene Crede, only similar words, dressing and some visual playing.

Have a look (and is not a complete list):
The true and only Christian is not believing in:
1. - filioque (denies that the Holy Spirit comes from the Father only! says is coming from the Son, too) – this lowers the Father importance and removes the Holy Spirit from the Trinity
 Quoting: Leo 70015407


The trinity is a false, man-made doctrine, and it's certaintly not something a true follower of Christ believes in. Filioque is just another false nonsensical sub-doctrine. How can an alleged co-equl and co-eternal third person proceed from any of the other co-equals and co-eternals? It's nothing by empty sophistry.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2015 02:32 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
The catholic faith and their beliefs can be summed up I the Nicene Crede!

[link to www.usccb.org]
 Quoting: Oxi moran


They can not deny this! This is central to their faith
 Quoting: Oxi moran


Deny what? Yeah, that is what we believe. Fun fact: the books of the Bible were chosen at the Council of Nicea.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2015 02:37 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
What about "Roman" Catholics?

For them add in the prayers to mary and the "saints", idolizing the pope and communing with the dead, and weird "relic's" such as vials of blood of dead people that are used ritually and in the same manner as necromancy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68617918


Simply call us the Catholic church. Prayers to Mary and other saints aren't much different from you asking someone else to pray for you. The only difference is the saints like Mary are praying for us in Heaven. The pope is a leader like a priest or bishop, but at the highest rank. He isn't idolized. The "vial of blood" you referring to is probably the blood of Christ, which is consumed at each mass along with the body of Christ, also known as communion or the Holy Eucharist. When Christ told his apostles at the last supper, "this is my body" and "this is my blood", referring to the bread and wine, he meant it literally. It's a miracle performed at every mass.
 Quoting: GLP Effect


Amen
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2015 03:56 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
What about "Roman" Catholics?

For them add in the prayers to mary and the "saints", idolizing the pope and communing with the dead, and weird "relic's" such as vials of blood of dead people that are used ritually and in the same manner as necromancy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68617918


We don't pray to the saints or Mary, we ask them to intercede on our behalf through prayer because they are living members of the Body of Christ who are now sinless and in the presence of God. We do not believe that the Pope is sinless or in any way divine, but was given divine authority when Jesus gave the keys of the Kingdom to Peter. The relic thing is not an essential aspect of our faith in any way and the Church does not teach that they have any divine significance, though Catholics have used them to remember and honor saints and miracles have been associated with them, miracles that we know only God has the power to perform. Saint blood used in rituals? That's just not true.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2015 04:03 PM
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Re: What Catholics really believe!!!! It's all in the Nicene Crede!!!!
...


This trinity doctrine existed before the Roman Catholic church took over around 313-400 A.d.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68617918


No, it most definitely did not. It was officially adopted at the First council of Constantinople in 381 AD, and it still took several centuries to fully develop the doctrines.
 Quoting: Monotheism


It was a view held by the Church fathers before the First Council of Constantinople.

It was only had to be adopted as an offical statement as response to the heresy known was Arianism, which is same heresy you Unitarians adopted in the 1500's.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68782876


Nope. Arianism was debated at Nicea 56 years earlier not Constantinople, and even Nicea didn't present a developed trinity. And this is almost four centuries after Jesus. Fact is the holy spirit wasn't even promoted to person- and Godhood at Nicea. And even after Nicea several bishops retracted the votes they felt they were pressured into. Constantine himself also converted back to Arianism and Arianism remained the dominant faith in East Rome. The trinity was invented between the 4th and 7th century after Jesus' earthly ministry. A man-made lie.

Not that I care about any of this; I don't do man-made doctrines invented by apostate bishopes. According to the Bible, Jesus, God Himself, the prophets of the Most High God, there is one Most High God, YHWH alone. Jesus called Him Father. According to your own words, Jesus was a heretic. That says all I need to know about your faith.
 Quoting: Monotheism


Jesus said: "Before the world was, I Am." I Am is the name of God revealed to Moses in the burning bush. He also said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Anyone who knows me knows the Father."

Regarding the Holy Spirit, that one is even easier because Jesus said to the apostles "When I send you My Spirit..."





GLP