Bible Christians, this is what you are asking others to accept about God

It would be hard to point to a book with more historical significance. The Koran may be a distant second. But you are correct that there is all manner of useful knowledge within it, even if it's not to be taken literally.

As for understanding what I blabber about, I do my best.

CASE IN POINT:V V V V V V V V V V V

Tell me about it. Especially with the 2 Tim. 3:16 reboot button, and the fact that those professing themselves to be sola scriptura areally aren't.

Last Edited by Monotheism on 01/06/2016 03:28 PM

Well, it was a generalization to be sure, I did not intend to implicate you OP! ;-)

Ah, there ya are. I was wondering what took ya so long to get here.

Again, I appreciate your earnest in getting the word out, but maybe you could at least place it where it fits. The poster you are responding to was most gracious in his/her response to me and I didn't get a lick of the kind of stuff you are associating to the response.

Yes, I realize this is a forum. Of that, I am fully informed.





You would have preferred that I use the description "Lake of Fire" in context of eternity because this is the formal title according to the Bible, whereas, Hell is the place that exists and detains souls prior to the sending of souls to eternal punishment? I do understand the distinction. However, I was unaware that I needed to be so formal. I am not engaging in a philosophical and life altering discussion here. I was basically getting to know the OP a little.

As a note: You will find that many people from different faiths, and some with none use "Hell" to describe eternal punishment as a loose term. Some even use the term to describe going through something in daily life such as, "It was like Hell today." people do not usually say "it was like Lake of Fire today."

Do elaborate, perhaps I missed something.

It appeared the poster I had quoted was falling back on the old "why would a God allow" and the old, "I think Christian means hypocrite" excuses, by all means correct me if I'm wrong.

Many people forget, there is a lake of fire a convenient 93 odd million miles away, while here on earth many people live in their own personal hells unnecessarily.

Ive read it cover to cover in context over 50 times.

Did 5 years bible college too.

Hold a pastorship and pastored a church for many years.


Then i was woken up to the lies we had been taught and were teaching others.

It why i know and understand christianity so well..and also why christians are such utter cunts to people.

Cause they teach that god is as well.

And yes..were i in your postion as i was a few years ago your response would aslo have been mine.

And i bet when the penny drops for you too that you get a little angry at the lies.

Its a tough thing to have a lifetime of lies exposed right on top of you.

It's a topic that can be debated. But like I said, I'm not here to get you to accept what I believe.

I think you are convinced that you are on the right track. So to, am I convinced that I am on the right track. But, that is kind of how life is. Everybody cannot be on the right track and be on such different tracks. Plus, I am not really too concerned with being right or wrong according to other people. I just enjoy chatting a bit when I have some time.

Not really. I understand EXACTLY the concept that you are suggesting here.

By all means, provide the secret clue that opened your eyes.

Near as I can tell it's a book, a very misunderstood book. Sad if your perspective was so skewed you went 180.

It's not about being formal, it's about being factual. A fitting approach considering the topic of the thread, don't you think? If I was being formal I'd ask you to make distictions between hades, sheol, tartarus, gehenna and the lake of fire.

And it was just a parenthesis. I was making a point.

And hell is mostly translated from the Hebrew word sheol (hades for Greek equivalent). A more proper translation is the grave, as in the state of being dead, as in not conscious, and not a detention center. A place all goes to, righteous and wicked alike. Soul immortality isn't biblical either. And a word for proper eternity can't be found in either the Greek or Hebrew text.

Last Edited by Monotheism on 01/06/2016 03:50 PM

As it turns out that book was the bible itself.

So many things we were teaching were the opposite of whats in it.

But unlike the JW's who actually change their scriptures to fit what they teach us christians utterly ignore the scriptures and teach bullshit anyway.

I shall be right back with a stack of undebunkable examples and let you try to explain why we teach the opposite of what they say.

Thank you for the lesson.

I am sorry that my comment did not meet your standards of "factualness."

As for your informative hebrew lesson: I am aware of the hebrew since hebrew is my native tongue. (nonetheless, toda.)

Ok explain these.



What the word actually SAYS

Isaiah 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

And what they actually TEACH..

Isaiah 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of a small fraction of the nations; and some of the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.


And What the word actually SAYS

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

And what they actually TEACH..

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall about 10% of mankind be made alive.

And What the word actually SAYS

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

And what they actually TEACH..

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of just a few men, and only of those that believe.

And What the word actually SAYS

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And what they actually TEACH..

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away...except in hell where screaming and pain and tears and death will continue quite happily for eternity.

And What the word actually SAYS

Isaiah 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. (8) He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

And what they actually TEACH..

Isaiah 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. (8) He will swallow up 10% of death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off about 10% of faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off a bit of the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

And What the word actually SAYS

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

And what they actually TEACH..

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw about 10% of men unto me.

And What the word actually SAYS

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

And what they actually TEACH..

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and for our's only, but not for the sins of the whole world.


And What the word actually SAYS


John 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

And what they actually TEACH..

John 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of part of the world.
.

Took a fair bit of twisting of scripture to make them say the OPPOSITE of whats there...but most christians should not have a problem with it because its what they EXACTLY teach..

Well, there you go. And it wasn't about a standard, I wass making a point in regards tp Christian theology. If I might ask, why do you believe in the NT? Or what? What's the story there? Are you of Jewish descent? As in, did your ancestors practise the Judaic faith.

Last Edited by Monotheism on 01/06/2016 04:05 PM

"You believe that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a woman made from a rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.”

I believe in the NT because I believe Jesus is the promised Messiah. I did not always believe this. May I assume you do not believe in the NT?

I am an Israeli living for a time in America. I even write in English with capital letters, vowels, and pretty good spelling.

eternity is a latin word. It has and end. Aions agonies and owlam all have an end....

Yehoshua The Nazoraion was never a Christian.

In 1776 our country fought for the freedoms of all men. Today people have forgot what happened and debate the principles of our country. And this is just under 250 years removed from the event.

Does that mean the war never took place or that what our country was founded on doesn't exist? No, it is still very much alive in people today, generally the people who took time to read actual history and understand it.

That is a decent parallel of the bible and the events that happened in it, except we are now 2000 years removed from the events of the New Testament and all people look to is a *book* instead of what the book represents.

My testimony won't mean much to you but have ever had a demon manifest in front of you or been dragged across a room by an entity not of this physical world? I have. I have also had conversations with Jesus. Most people who turn from faith in I Am and Jesus never actually had a relationship with them. They just learn a *book* then say "it never did anything for me" so they walk away without ever actually having faith and belief. I've had the luxury of experiencing things most never will which is why I am all in and never turning away as there in zero doubt in me. I hope you experience these things too, then your doubt will be removed... Or will it??

Believe is a matter of definition. What changed your mind in regards to Christianity, the NT or Jesus as the Messiah? If I might ask.

Tovia Singer, an antimissionary Orthodox Rabbi, once claimed that Jews that accepted Christianity are never actually practising Jews that know scripture, but Jews from secular backgrounds. Does that apply to you? Did you observe the
mitzvot? Do you observe them now? Do you think Jesus did away with the law? What's your opinion on the Christian concept of dual prophecy? Are you the only Christian in your family? Do you have relatives that are practising Jews?

Forgive my curiosity, I just find the Jew to Christian conversion a fascinating subject. I just don't see Christianity make a compelling case.

Last Edited by Monotheism on 01/06/2016 04:31 PM

Doubt is created by lies.

So why do christians teach lies instead of what the bible says.


For instance.....a FEW examples



What the word actually SAYS

Isaiah 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

And what they actually TEACH..

Isaiah 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of a small fraction of the nations; and some of the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.


And What the word actually SAYS

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

And what they actually TEACH..

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall about 10% of mankind be made alive.

And What the word actually SAYS

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

And what they actually TEACH..

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of just a few men, and only of those that believe.

And What the word actually SAYS

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And what they actually TEACH..

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away...except in hell where screaming and pain and tears and death will continue quite happily for eternity.

And What the word actually SAYS

Isaiah 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. (8) He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

And what they actually TEACH..

Isaiah 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. (8) He will swallow up 10% of death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off about 10% of faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off a bit of the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

And What the word actually SAYS

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

And what they actually TEACH..

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw about 10% of men unto me.

And What the word actually SAYS

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

And what they actually TEACH..

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and for our's only, but not for the sins of the whole world.


And What the word actually SAYS


John 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

And what they actually TEACH..

John 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of part of the world.
.

Took a fair bit of twisting of scripture to make them say the OPPOSITE of whats there...but most christians should not have a problem with it because its what they EXACTLY teach..

Instead of going line by line let me see if I can summarize for us to discuss:

You found that the God of the Armenian view was fake because you see people falling away from the faith and it isn't fair to those who never got a chance to make an informed choice.

You found that the God of the Reformed (or some will say Calvinist) view is straight up not fair because he makes people that he doesn't call so they don't get justified and therefore don't get glorified.

Most of your quotes and your commentary seem to indicate that your rejecting pre-destination/election. Let me know if I got it wrong and correct me if that is not the issue.

God gave freedom to everyone, yet not everyone chooses to be free.

I agree there are many false things being taught. But this might clear up some of your quotes: You must receive what you are given.

Do you know the Great Commission? Matt 28:18 is the beginning.

Some evangelicals think you can scare/argue people into believing. This is false. I've seen this happen - people get "saved" and come to church for awhile, super zealous, then disappear. It was a false conversion.

Real evangelism is based on the Great Commission. "Go and tell." Tell. Not hound, scare, fear-monger, badger, etc. Simply share the Gospel and let the Holy Spirit do the work. Period.

Anyone trying to argue you into the Kingdom is doing it wrong.

^ agreed

We plant seeds by sharing the good news and the rest will not be done by us. We cannot save a single soul, but Jesus can save all.

It is our tradition that we cannot change our traditions!
Traditionally speaking of course!

Jesus came and trampled over traditions. Traditions become distractions and idols.