Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary | |
Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 08:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 09:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 09:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 09:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary It is time to dispel a few myths about what is going on. Oregon Gov. Kate Brown sat in her office Jan. 20 and drafted a letter to the U.S. attorney general and the director of the FBI. She wrote that negotiations with the “radicals” occupying the Malheur Wildlife Refuge had failed and insisted on a “swift resolution to this matter.” Local officials, including Harney County Judge Steve Grasty, made similar demands. On Jan. 26, they got what they asked for. Authorities, including the FBI, ambushed and arrested Ammon Bundy and others on their way to a meeting in neighboring Grant County. They shot LaVoy Finicum dead. He was not holding a weapon. Awful. Grasty and Brown knew what might happen should the FBI decide negotiations had failed. Few have forgotten the standoffs at Waco and Ruby Ridge and that “swift” federal action often means people die — in many cases, indiscriminately. It’s ironic, but the behavior of the judge and the governor goes a long way to make the refuge protesters’ case for them. Blind devotion to federal authority is terribly dangerous to lives and to liberty. [link to www.capitalpress.com] |
Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 09:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary I agree. At least at the moment I do. There is so much disinfo out there that it is hard to get a true grasp of what actually happened. On the surface, it seems their strategy lacked proper planning, and they were likely infiltrated by government informants. However, if someone always waits for the perfect plan, the perfect timing, will that time ever come? It certainly appears that the Hammonds had exhausted all of the "proper" channels. The people in Harney County appear to have been afraid to speak up in their defense. Sheriff Mack noted that it would have been much easier to keep the Hammonds out of prison, then to get them out after the fact. A constitutional sheriff could have stood between them and the governmenmental overreach. Sheriff Ward was appointed early possibly for a reason. In the Harney County Court meeting minutes, there is mention of him being appointed January 1. Then in December, he is suddenly appointed in a hurry. Makes me wonder why. |
Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 10:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 10:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary OMG! Just saw something posted on the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom facebook page. There is footage of Ryan Payne kneeling as he was arrested. You can find the clip here: [link to gma.yahoo.com (secure)] Go to about 1:14 in the video at the link. So there is footage of the "traffic stop." |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69616707 United States 02/13/2016 10:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 12740327 United States 02/13/2016 10:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary "Right fight, wrong strategy" is the mantra of tyranny since the 90's. There IS no right way to fight back. No one ever suggests a correct way after they make that bullshit comment. It's a sinister demoralization tool created by the media to instill doubt and curb any future attempts to free the sheep from the farm. Seriously; how the fuck is a peaceful sit in the wrong fuckin' way to do it?! So shooting is out, peaceful resistance is out, talking is out, hands up and cooperating is out...what the fuck is left???? The courts? HA! Good luck with that. Unless you're a multi-billionaire with endless resources and nothing to do, you don't honestly think you have a snowballs chance against the Feds in a 'court of law' do you? No, the way they mean it - the only 'right way' is not to fight back at all. Anyone says 'right fight, wrong strategy' should be slapped in the mouth. LaVoy Finicum and the rest did something about it besides whine and criticise on the Internet - THATS EXACTLY THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT. Fucking ridiculous, America. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 12740327 United States 02/13/2016 10:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary Yep,right battle.DEFINITELY wrong plan.They were stupid beyond all reason seizing gov building ARMED. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69616707 Okay genius, then tell us; what's the right way? Go on. Since you know better than anyone, tell us all your master plan for the perfect way to stop the omnipotent overreach of tyranny. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 12740327 United States 02/13/2016 10:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary Yep,right battle.DEFINITELY wrong plan.They were stupid beyond all reason seizing gov building ARMED. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69616707 Soooo you're saying the Bill of Rights, written by the men who won the freedom you enjoy today to say idiotic things, were wrong? 1A is wrong? 2A is wrong? The fuck is wrong with you jackass? |
Chugiakian User ID: 68640416 United States 02/13/2016 10:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary A thread I started Thread: LaVoy Finicum and why the Government Assasinated him! A MUST LISTEN for this video [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] A MUST WATCH Chugiakian |
Bush Master User ID: 70440712 United States 02/13/2016 10:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Chugiakian User ID: 68640416 United States 02/13/2016 10:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
PIR User ID: 39739886 United States 02/13/2016 10:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary "Right fight, wrong strategy" is the mantra of tyranny since the 90's. There IS no right way to fight back. No one ever suggests a correct way after they make that bullshit comment. It's a sinister demoralization tool created by the media to instill doubt and curb any future attempts to free the sheep from the farm. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12740327 Seriously; how the fuck is a peaceful sit in the wrong fuckin' way to do it?! So shooting is out, peaceful resistance is out, talking is out, hands up and cooperating is out...what the fuck is left???? The courts? HA! Good luck with that. Unless you're a multi-billionaire with endless resources and nothing to do, you don't honestly think you have a snowballs chance against the Feds in a 'court of law' do you? No, the way they mean it - the only 'right way' is not to fight back at all. Anyone says 'right fight, wrong strategy' should be slapped in the mouth. LaVoy Finicum and the rest did something about it besides whine and criticise on the Internet - THATS EXACTLY THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT. Fucking ridiculous, America. This |
Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 10:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary "Right fight, wrong strategy" is the mantra of tyranny since the 90's. There IS no right way to fight back. No one ever suggests a correct way after they make that bullshit comment. It's a sinister demoralization tool created by the media to instill doubt and curb any future attempts to free the sheep from the farm. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12740327 Seriously; how the fuck is a peaceful sit in the wrong fuckin' way to do it?! So shooting is out, peaceful resistance is out, talking is out, hands up and cooperating is out...what the fuck is left???? The courts? HA! Good luck with that. Unless you're a multi-billionaire with endless resources and nothing to do, you don't honestly think you have a snowballs chance against the Feds in a 'court of law' do you? No, the way they mean it - the only 'right way' is not to fight back at all. Anyone says 'right fight, wrong strategy' should be slapped in the mouth. LaVoy Finicum and the rest did something about it besides whine and criticise on the Internet - THATS EXACTLY THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT. Fucking ridiculous, America. This Agree with the bolded statement in your post. This is what I would like to know. What would have been the correct way to do this? Many avenues had been exhausted. How should this have been handled? Like you, I have not heard any solution presented that would have made a difference. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69616707 United States 02/13/2016 10:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary Yep,right battle.DEFINITELY wrong plan.They were stupid beyond all reason seizing gov building ARMED. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69616707 Okay genius, then tell us; what's the right way? Go on. Since you know better than anyone, tell us all your master plan for the perfect way to stop the omnipotent overreach of tyranny. So I disagree with you and suddenly I know better than 'everyone', I stated my case,I stand by it. Armed force isnt going to cut it.We stopped a war without it.If we had gone armed,we would have been gunned down,no doubt about it. Its way to soon to enter into armed warfare against the gov,the support simply isnt there for it. Juries of sheeple and gov 'judges' are going to fry you,at this point in time. The tipping point is nowhere near now.Get an economic collapse,starving people,a nice war...THEN there will be support.THAT isnt now,just plain isnt. And they are,right now,going to lock Cliven up for 40 years,and the MAJORITY of Americans by a large percentage are going to think its just ducky. Mark my words. |
ib6xmb User ID: 70492418 United States 02/13/2016 10:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary On the surface, it seems their strategy lacked proper planning, and they were likely infiltrated by government informants. However, if someone always waits for the perfect plan, the perfect timing, will that time ever come? I also felt they lacked any planning and that location was the wrong place to do it. Your statement above makes beautiful sense. I guess starting somewhere is better than not at all. |
Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 10:50 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary I guess my real purpose in starting this thread was to end up saying this: There are many who agree it was a good cause, even though they might disagree with the strategy. Does it matter? Does it really matter if it was the wrong strategy? A man is dead now and many others are in jail. Our freedom is at stake. So there may be government informants infiltrating our milita. Hasn't this been the case throughout history? Will we wait for the "perfect" time to stand up and speak out against the injustices or will be protest these injustices when they happen? Will we continue to argue amongst ourselves over this, or will we unite against the common enemy? To be clear, I am not advocating violence. I am talking about the exercise of our 1st amendment rights. Will we continue to let them divide us, intimidate us, abuse our constitutional liberties, or will we stand for justice? |
Chugiakian User ID: 68640416 United States 02/13/2016 10:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary BREAKING: VIDEO Footage of the "traffic stop" the day LaVoy was killed. Go to 1:14 of the clip at this link: Quoting: Daniel Higdon [link to gma.yahoo.com (secure)] is there another source for this video? it is not working for me Chugiakian |
Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 11:02 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary I haven't seen one. There are some stills from the video on the facebook link. The video worked for me, but I'm getting bombarded with 1 stars on my thread, so the shills could be at work already. I started a new thread for this topic, since it wasn't getting any traction here: [link to www.godlikeproductions.com] Last Edited by Daniel Higdon on 02/13/2016 11:02 AM |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69616707 United States 02/13/2016 11:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary I guess my real purpose in starting this thread was to end up saying this: Quoting: Daniel Higdon There are many who agree it was a good cause, even though they might disagree with the strategy. Does it matter? Does it really matter if it was the wrong strategy? A man is dead now and many others are in jail. Our freedom is at stake. Im alivenot dead because of a piss poor plan.Im not in a cage.Because I exercise reasonable judgment and dont threaten my freedom or my families welfare for a cause that has no popular support.Or very little at this point. Im smart enough to see taking on the gov,armed,at this point in time will garner little support and will result in my death,incarceration and devastate my family.Boy there's some good choices. I have bigger fish to fry,and battles to fight when/if the time comes when its really necessary,not to die for a group of idots,yes IDIOTS,like Bundy and his spawn. Frankly they ARE NOT worthy of sacrificing my family for them.I have my own to care for and I will do so,thank you very much,without any support from you. YMMV,and at glp Im sure it does,I live in reality however. |
Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 11:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary I guess my real purpose in starting this thread was to end up saying this: Quoting: Daniel Higdon There are many who agree it was a good cause, even though they might disagree with the strategy. Does it matter? Does it really matter if it was the wrong strategy? A man is dead now and many others are in jail. Our freedom is at stake. Im alivenot dead because of a piss poor plan.Im not in a cage.Because I exercise reasonable judgment and dont threaten my freedom or my families welfare for a cause that has no popular support.Or very little at this point. Im smart enough to see taking on the gov,armed,at this point in time will garner little support and will result in my death,incarceration and devastate my family.Boy there's some good choices. I have bigger fish to fry,and battles to fight when/if the time comes when its really necessary,not to die for a group of idots,yes IDIOTS,like Bundy and his spawn. Frankly they ARE NOT worthy of sacrificing my family for them.I have my own to care for and I will do so,thank you very much,without any support from you. YMMV,and at glp Im sure it does,I live in reality however. Thank you for adding to the discussion. My post did not advocate taking on the government in a violent manner. Simply speaking out against the injustices. The last time I checked, we are supposed to still have the right to free speech in this country. I imagine that many others throughout history have had similar thoughts as you. Bigger fish to fry and battles to fight when/if the time comes. This situation is not just about the Bundys or the Hammonds. It's about our way of life. By the time many wake up, it may be too late to speak out against the Agenda 21/2030 plans of our government. Many state they will stand up when the fight comes to their front door. You may end up standing at your front door alone against an army. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69616707 United States 02/13/2016 11:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary Thank you OP for the reasoned response,I agree with you more than you know. I just think its too soon,America isnt ready,we are fed,fat,have football and relatively happy(Yup,thats America,sad as it may be).When that changes,and it may,its a whole different dynamic. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69616707 United States 02/13/2016 11:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary If I ever stand at my front door against the USA army,I hope I take 2 for my one life.Ive done my last stand/terminal fire drills with the marines,I know whats involved. But I dont see that scenario.Maybe one similar.You never know.I think we will have more warning than soldiers at the door. Time will tell,but the tipping point isnt here yet,not at all. |
Daniel Higdon (OP) User ID: 69657566 United States 02/13/2016 11:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary Thank you OP for the reasoned response,I agree with you more than you know. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69616707 I just think its too soon,America isnt ready,we are fed,fat,have football and relatively happy(Yup,thats America,sad as it may be).When that changes,and it may,its a whole different dynamic. I think we must be willing to listen to the voices of others. No one person has all of the answers. Again, I truly appreciate your contributions to this discussion. |
Lily o' the Valley User ID: 70848385 United States 02/13/2016 11:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Occupation of Malheur Refuge: Right fight, wrong strategy or the wake up call that was necessary He is absolutely correct. Most conservatives on this site however seem to be uninterested in the historic base of the episode. They yawn at the information that the resistance to the federal government grabbing or holding on to millions of acres of public land is a fight that has been going on for over a hundred years, it is not something that Bundy cooked up. They are allowing the media to frame these episodes of resistance as the work of kooky fanatics, rather than a continuance of a historic resistance. The government controlled media has prevented the public from knowing the true basis of this conflict, that the government is engaged wholesale in un-constitutional activities that have no legal basis. The man is right about the battle to own your property. The opening salvo on the hapless homeowner has been in the form of: * outrageous property taxes at the local level * followed by the contrived housing bubble which took property values down, while taxes were not adjusted *taxes rose, and those on fixed incomes found themselves strapped by unaffordable taxes * as a result, they have increasingly bought into reverse mortgages which will leave their homes in the hands of the government * houses owned by banks will be turned over to the federal government * government owned residential property will increase as the imbalance between income and taxes/payments becomes wider So yes, you will see this: First they cane for the miners and I said nothing Then they came for the loggers and I said nothing Then they came for the fishermen and I said nothing Then they came for the ranchers and I said nothing * Then they came for the farmers and I said nothing Then they came for the homeowners and I spoke too late * This is where we are now, folks *** Good deeds bring rewards, bad actions bring troubles. That is a law of the universe. *** |
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