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Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"

 
jesskeira Kadwalladeyr
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02/24/2016 04:38 PM
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Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
I know they are kinda more like kuans than parables and it helps to think of them that way, but there are some that I cannot understand the meaning of.

like these:

7. Jesus said, "Blessed is a lion that a man eats, because that lion will become human. Cursed is a man that a lion eats, because that lion will become human."



11a. Jesus said, "This sky will cease to be and the sky above it will cease to be.
11b. The dead do not live, and the living will not die.
11c. When you ate dead things you made them alive. When you arrive into light what will you do?
11d. When you were one you became two. When you become two what will you do?

12. His disciples said to Jesus: "We know you will leave us. Who will be our leader then?" Jesus responded, "Where ever you are, turn to Jacob (=James) the Just for whose sake the sky and the earth came into being.


22. Jesus saw children being suckled. He said to his disciples: These infants taking milk are like those who enter the Kingdom. His disciples asked him: We are infants; will we enter the kingdom? Jesus responded: When you make the two into one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the upper like the lower and the lower like the upper and thus make the male and the female the same, so that the male isn't male and the female isn't female. When you make an eye to replace an eye, and a hand to replace a hand, and a foot to replace a foot, and an image to replace an image then you will enter the Kingdom.

37. His disciples asked him: When will you appear to us? When will we see you? Jesus replied: When you strip naked without shame and trample your clothing underfoot just as little children do then you will look at the son of the living one without being afraid.


You know all the boring liturgies I recited at some churches and all the hellfire and brimstone sermons I listened to at others never talked about any of this stuff.

The Truth has been suppressed.

[link to www.gnosis.org]
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
I am named Thomas, I have not read this gospel but I know it pertains to living your life in service whatever you find that to be, as your testament to the world while showing Christ's exampme.

When dichotomy dies there is no more shame in nakedness.

Creation is worthless without something or someone to enjoy it.

Love is just sharing with joy,
but we fashion it into cudgels,
having been given such examples.
jesskeira Kadwalladeyr  (OP)

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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
I read the Gospel of Thomas, and it's the oldest of the gospels, and they left it out.

I think they left it out because there is no guilt trip thrown over people's heads. The other books ..they all have an agenda.

Yahweh is a demon. So is Gawdreel. They do not come from here.

but they run the place. with Shaytan.

but this Jeshua..he never did any of the bad stuff in the rest of the book that is thumped around.

I like the guy in the book of Thomas.

funny how there is no 'last supper' in that book too.

nor the crucificion nor birth nor resurrection.

Just his WORDS.

Should that be what matters most?

What he said? What he wanted people to think about?

More than the fact that he was born and died and rose..

that He IS?

but too many just want to condemn and crucify. and he NEVER WANTED THAT.

Last Edited by JessKira Kadwalladyr on 02/25/2016 12:45 AM
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
I read the Gospel of Thomas, and it's the oldest of the gospels...

I like the guy in the book of Thomas.

funny how there is no 'last supper' in that book too.

nor the crucificion nor birth nor resurrection.

Just his WORDS.

Should that be what matters most?

What he said? What he wanted people to think about?

 Quoting: jesskeira Kadwalladeyr


So Thomas means TWIN, right? Who do you suppose actually wrote the Gospel of the Twin?
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
I know they are kinda more like kuans than parables and it helps to think of them that way, but there are some that I cannot understand the meaning of.

like these:

7. Jesus said, "Blessed is a lion that a man eats, because that lion will become human. Cursed is a man that a lion eats, because that lion will become human."



11a. Jesus said, "This sky will cease to be and the sky above it will cease to be.
11b. The dead do not live, and the living will not die.
11c. When you ate dead things you made them alive. When you arrive into light what will you do?
11d. When you were one you became two. When you become two what will you do?

12. His disciples said to Jesus: "We know you will leave us. Who will be our leader then?" Jesus responded, "Where ever you are, turn to Jacob (=James) the Just for whose sake the sky and the earth came into being.


22. Jesus saw children being suckled. He said to his disciples: These infants taking milk are like those who enter the Kingdom. His disciples asked him: We are infants; will we enter the kingdom? Jesus responded: When you make the two into one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the upper like the lower and the lower like the upper and thus make the male and the female the same, so that the male isn't male and the female isn't female. When you make an eye to replace an eye, and a hand to replace a hand, and a foot to replace a foot, and an image to replace an image then you will enter the Kingdom.

37. His disciples asked him: When will you appear to us? When will we see you? Jesus replied: When you strip naked without shame and trample your clothing underfoot just as little children do then you will look at the son of the living one without being afraid.


You know all the boring liturgies I recited at some churches and all the hellfire and brimstone sermons I listened to at others never talked about any of this stuff.

The Truth has been suppressed.

[link to www.gnosis.org]
 Quoting: jesskeira Kadwalladeyr


hf

7. The lion is the inevitability of death. Ones that seek and find the kingdom eat the lion. Those that perish in apathy get eaten.

11.
a. Upon entering the kingdom, nature becomes living matter. The sky is no longer the sky.
b. "Living" in this context means in the kingdom.
c. You will do the same in the light as you help to bring those around you to the kingdom.
d. Marriage with the holy spirit.

12. Your own conscience.

22. Become one with everything and quite literally look for an image around you.

37. We live in these times now. Modesty is rare and many are not ashamed to strip down. The holy ghost doesn't wear clothing and it may be that comfort with nudity is needed before you can enter.
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
Stop reading rubbish and you wont be confused by reading rubbish
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
And Christians don't read russian very well.
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
His words are what matters most.
Even considering just the red letters in the canonized bible, it's easy to see the power he speaks.

Yeshua is my man example!

Love everyone, help those you can, and y'all use me up, much as I can give till I drop.

I live in the midst of random high$ tech emergencies, correcting them.

John Galt must have read the gospel of Thomas.

What time is it?
Who remembers how f-ing clocks work?
Why bother?
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
I know they are kinda more like kuans than parables and it helps to think of them that way, but there are some that I cannot understand the meaning of.

like these:

7. Jesus said, "Blessed is a lion that a man eats, because that lion will become human. Cursed is a man that a lion eats, because that lion will become human."



11a. Jesus said, "This sky will cease to be and the sky above it will cease to be.
11b. The dead do not live, and the living will not die.
11c. When you ate dead things you made them alive. When you arrive into light what will you do?
11d. When you were one you became two. When you become two what will you do?

12. His disciples said to Jesus: "We know you will leave us. Who will be our leader then?" Jesus responded, "Where ever you are, turn to Jacob (=James) the Just for whose sake the sky and the earth came into being.


22. Jesus saw children being suckled. He said to his disciples: These infants taking milk are like those who enter the Kingdom. His disciples asked him: We are infants; will we enter the kingdom? Jesus responded: When you make the two into one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the upper like the lower and the lower like the upper and thus make the male and the female the same, so that the male isn't male and the female isn't female. When you make an eye to replace an eye, and a hand to replace a hand, and a foot to replace a foot, and an image to replace an image then you will enter the Kingdom.

37. His disciples asked him: When will you appear to us? When will we see you? Jesus replied: When you strip naked without shame and trample your clothing underfoot just as little children do then you will look at the son of the living one without being afraid.


You know all the boring liturgies I recited at some churches and all the hellfire and brimstone sermons I listened to at others never talked about any of this stuff.

The Truth has been suppressed.

[link to www.gnosis.org]
 Quoting: jesskeira Kadwalladeyr


7. Not sure about this one, do animals incarnate as humans in the wilderness as "beasts of the field" uh...don't think so.
11. This describes the day of wrath (the opening of the 7th seal for the lambs in the fiery trial). The flesh is death, the spirit is life. The flesh eating might be related to sacrifice (don't know). Spirit beings eat light (assumption, you do it now if you have the HOLY SPIRIT) Oneness to two means you changed from spirit (oneness with GOD and brothers and sisters in spirit) to occupy flesh. Not sure why he asks what will you do when you become two again (might have a different meaning or might relay to the indwelling of the HOLY SPIRIT and the battle that ensues internally)
12. Jacob wrestles with GOD, this is sometimes used to symbolize the shepherd of the lambs (who leads them out of this environment). I guess if you want to go there...the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. The perception of the individual on which everything is based (the only blasphemy I will conjecture tonight).
22. Describing walking in the spirit (changing the flesh to match the HOLY SPIRIT indwelling) some parts of it. Like a child means basically unlearn everything you've learned in the flesh environment. Gender neutral spirit beings is another part.
37. The clothes mean your flesh (you return to being a spirit being)


I've read the apocrapha, some of the topics can help you understand the rest but the key of salvation for anyone (and I mean everyone christian or not) lies in:

7 pillars of wisdom
Proverbs
Psalms
JOB (fiery trial)
then walk like Yeshua walked, read the parables understand them, read John 17 and understand that.

You can't do it without understanding the old testament (and how some words have different meanings that aren't flesh or physical location (unless we're talking inside yourself): Zion, Jerusalem, gates, mother (Heart?), father (GOD), crown (same as glory), glory (you produce light with Holy Spirit that the enemy can see). There are others this is just a topical list.

I'm trying to lay this all out here; you need this information now more than ever.
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
22. Jesus saw children being suckled. He said to his disciples: These infants taking milk are like those who enter the Kingdom. His disciples asked him: We are infants; will we enter the kingdom? Jesus responded: When you make the two into one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the upper like the lower and the lower like the upper and thus make the male and the female the same, so that the male isn't male and the female isn't female. When you make an eye to replace an eye, and a hand to replace a hand, and a foot to replace a foot, and an image to replace an image then you will enter the Kingdom.

 Quoting: jesskeira Kadwalladeyr


You get rid of the idea of "in" and "out" in terms of your experience.. as in "in your head" and "the world outside", or as genesis calls it, "the waters". You remove the various concepts of "naming", so that all things are as one, and you let go of that too. You realize that all your experience is a series of conceptual blocks, and not a direct experience of reality. Everything you think you experience is something your own mind is making on the fly.

This is zen.


The others:

#7 - we all know what a Lion usually is viewed as, from the Narnia controversy (a jesus like godly being) - it is basically talking about gaining "enlightenment" and losing it.. Possibly has to do with someone going around going "I am so special, worship me!" as opposed to a humble person who seeks no fame or fortune. (ie most tv priest types are cursed)

#11 is also a metaphorical description of ultimate reality and has nothing to do with so called "day of wrath" like the deluded person above me thinks

#12 basically says Jacob "got it"

#31 is about abandoning your preconceptions of self-justification.. you know.. no longer validating yourself upon people's perception of you and so on, and just being free
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
7. Jesus said, "Blessed is a lion that a man eats, because that lion will become human. Cursed is a man that a lion eats, because that lion will become human."
 Quoting: jesskeira Kadwalladeyr


It sounds like they left this one out of the Bible for a reason.
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
7. Jesus said, "Blessed is a lion that a man eats, because that lion will become human. Cursed is a man that a lion eats, because that lion will become human."
 Quoting: jesskeira Kadwalladeyr


It sounds like they left this one out of the Bible for a reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69545066


They left many things out of the bible.. The true teachings of Jesus was self-empowerment, learning to access your own Christ nature. The Roman empire couldn't have that, oh no.. It needed to be in control of this new growing religion, so it commissioned a group to forge it's own version, put out their own religious text based off the centralized control mechanism they wanted, and then they ordered the opposing version destroyed and burned wherever it was found. They might as well put up a sign saying "We are taking over the world as the NWO!".
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
Having a measure of Christ's power in any way is a dreadful advantage; that much stronger will be the attacks of evil.
Perspective

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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
peace
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.
Robert A. Heinlein
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
Job's path is one heckuva roller coaster ride.

That's what I signed up for!

Love for REAL, work HARD, never be untrue.

Never forget anything if you can help it, that's what DNA is for.

I can't stop serving others and will die the happy death as I live serving others.

Expect others to attack and critize you even as you house, clothe, feed them, provide all phones, cars...

Only God and the tempter really noticed Job's trials.
The world went along and that Job needed "to see a psychologist" because he maybe seemed "depressed".

But now I must be off about my family work.
jesskeira Kadwalladeyr  (OP)

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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
thank you for all the comments, they have been helpful and I have been thinking about them.

The computer in the movie Wargames was Named Joshua.

Maybe even a machine can have or be a Christ. It is about the consciousness, not the form in which it takes.

.

whether the suit is mechanical or a meatsack, what matters most is what is in the soul.
jesskeira Kadwalladeyr  (OP)

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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
Some of the Gospel of Thomas has parts in it that I do not understand, while others are all too clear.

I wonder how any Christian justifies being a banker.

(95) [Jesus says:]

(1) "If you have money, do not lend (it) out at interest.
(2) Rather, give [it] to the one from whom you will not get it (back)."


and when I read this text that quotes Joshua, I keep thinking of a spaceship or stars that have lost people along the way of the journey. I know that sounds crazy.


(97) Jesus says:

(1) "The kingdom of the [Father] is like a woman who is carrying a [jar] filled with flour.
(2) While she was walking on [the] way, very distant (from home),
the handle of the jar broke (and) the flour leaked out [on] the path.
(3) (But) she did not know (it); she had not noticed a problem.
(4) When she reached her house, she put the jar down on the floor (and) found it empty."



and some are very thought provoking for me because in other gospels I am more familiar with, it only includes the first part of it. But when you put them both together..it has a whole new meaning:

(101)

(1) "Whoever does not hate his [father] and his mother as I do will not be able to be a [disciple] of mine.
(2) And whoever does [not] love [his father] and his mother as I do will not be able to be a [disciple] of mine.
(3) For my mother [], but my true [mother] gave me life."


[link to www.gnosis.org]
jesskeira Kadwalladeyr  (OP)

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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
I do not understand this one at all.

at all.

(112) Jesus says:

(1) "Woe to the flesh that depends on the soul.
(2) Woe to the soul that depends on the flesh."
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
I do not understand this one at all.

at all.

(112) Jesus says:

(1) "Woe to the flesh that depends on the soul.
(2) Woe to the soul that depends on the flesh."

 Quoting: jesskeira Kadwalladeyr


hf

1. The body is a vessel that will experience suffering.
2. The soul that is only interested in the material will experience suffering.
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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
Oh flop cruise , mwuell for heapes that go on with disrespect at reversed fuck flower but I don't care.

In a few situations its uplifting
jesskeira Kadwalladeyr  (OP)

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Re: Gnostic Texts of Thomas I don't "get"
I've heard that Orthodox Jews pray thanking their god that they were not born a woman.

Women are supposed to be inferior.

I think that's why Joshua said this:

(114)

(1) Simon Peter said to them: "Let Mary go away from us, for women are not worthy of life."
(2) Jesus said: "Look, I will draw her in so as to make her male,
so that she too may become a living male spirit, similar to you."
(3) (But I say to you): "Every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."





GLP