A philosophical argument for the existence of G-d atheists cant counter.

whenever a retarded atheist asks you in his derpy fashion "aaah well... who created G-d?!" instead of trying to explain how is it that G-d always existed, just give him this argument.

most chances he wouldn't understand the logic though...

nope, what you call god in the OT is eternal.

go research where the old testament was influenced from..

you will find out that the electric universe is what early man called god.

electric universe is eternal. no end or beginning.

"God", "Singularity", whatever...

did you read the initials OT anywhere in the OP?

no, because its not about proving the G-d of the OT, but just G-d.

if you want me to prove to you that G-d, is indeed the G-d of the OT then I'd easily do that too.

without these books, the idea of god does not exist apart from the existance of the universe.

so there is no discussion of god

the idea of a creator predates Moses.

in the form of a force. as in the electric universe.

not a man or any characteristics of man

actually it is Judaism that claims G-d is a force, while conscious of itself with the ability to override nature and reveal itself to mankind, still a force.
Judaism ideologically defeated the pagan world which saw its gods as men/animals etc.

you are lacking some basic history education.

judaism took their knowledge from earlier civilizations while adding some terrible shit and acting like this force has feelings and gives a shit about you or me

jews even decided to call themselves the chosen ones. even this force really doesn't give a fuck

+

(He becomes).

the intention of this thread is to prove that G-d exists and watch as the atheists stay away from it like it is fire.
it is not my intention to prove Judaism atm.

what do you mean?

There has always been "something". You're over-complicating things.

My Philosophy of religion class has went over this. Your argument is Aquinas' first of 5.

they saw it as the "diamond" the "philosophical stone"

sad that modern day theists have forgotten this.

telling an atheist that there has always been something, or that G-d always existed, is not going to suffice to an atheist.

Well no. It's not "that simple". Saying that something cannot arise out of nothing is, in itself a philosophical argument. In addition, the concept that "gods" transcend the concepts of "somethingness and nothingness" is a further philosophical argument. There is no evidence that "gods" can arise from nothingness. Philosophical argument, by definition, has no definitive answer or conclusion.

Here's a philosophical argument.....Your inability to type the word "God" demonstrates that your religion is founded on fear.

1. Quantum foam and zero-point energy beg to differ - all sorts of stuff is spontaneously popping in and out of existence all the time.

2. It is not possible for mathematical logic not to exist, irrespective of the existence of a physical universe.

3. I personally believe that consciousness is also universal, and perhaps even the root of what we experience as reality, rather than a manifestation of it.

4. Even if your first point were correct (which it isn't), it still doesn't follow that there is any sort of deity (i.e. a conscious, omnipotent entity) involved. In that case, all it would tell us is that there's still a mystery yet to be unraveled, and a deity is one of several very different options.

Your philosophical argument therefore breaks down into:

i. the only two possibilities are God versus a straw man (when in fact the straw man is wrong, and there are lots of other options).

ii. if the straw man is wrong, then God by default.

Philosophers would be ashamed of you.

What a fresh argument. Haven't heard that one since Aristotle came up with it about 2500 years ago.

I disagree. I am an atheist, and I believe that in an infinite universe, there can be no other explanation other than that everything has always existed, at least somewhere. From an abiogenesis perspective, the conditions required for spontaneous generation of life, no matter how slim the odds, must exist in an infinite number of locations. From a biogenesis perspective, since time has no beginning, you can not calculate the percentage of time in which life has existed. Every segment of infinite time is infinitely long... Therefore life has always existed. There is no need for a "god" to explain any of it, and in fact if you believe in an eternal god, you would have to agree that he literally waited forever before creating anything. In other words, he never created anything.

let me quickly bring your stupid argument to shame.
quantum foam and particles arising from nothing do so because there is A MECHANISM some sort of a set of rules in other words... information.
that information can not come to existence by itself.

you still and forever will need that thing which transcends both somethingness and nothingness, and it would forever be G-d.

it is an axiom.

you are not good at philosophy.
I am not saying G-d transcends nothingness/somethingness, it is not an argument.
G-d is G-d by virtue of transcending those concepts.

so you are actually saying nothing...

btw, science had destroyed the greek thought of an eternal universe, by saying the universe had a start, ie the big bang thusly conforming with the Jewish perspective.

In your first post you say that something cannot arise out of nothing. You now say that something does arise out of nothing, but now it's the laws of nature that need a creator instead of the matter itself. As I said, information in the form of mathematical logic (and perhaps consciousness also) is independent of physical reality, and cannot possibly not exist. Therefore, you're saying that God is maths, rather than the normal understanding of a deity.

It's like I said: you're taking a hole in our current understanding and defining God as whatever fills that hole. However, the thing that fills the hole might well have no personality, no individuality, and no resemblance to anything in the multitude of religions that humans have come up with. A completely impersonal set of axioms that dictates the laws of nature is not what most people think of as being 'God' but fair enough...

The big bang describes an event that likely occurred in this region of space. Our observable universe is infinitely small compared to the entirety of space. What do you think lies beyond the expansion wave of our observable universe? What is our observable universe expanding into? Isn't it likely that "the" big bang is one of an infinite number of big bangs that have occurred and will continue to occur for eternity?

btw, I am Jewish by birthright and although it is tempting to defend and support the beliefs of my true creators (my family), I have to determine my truths based on the best information that is available in this day and age.

I never said G-d is math, in my opinion he created math, because mathematical rules by themselves have no creative force in them, there would just be mathematical rules... and nothing else.

I simply said this very simple thing, there must be a thing which transcends the concepts of somethingness and nothingness and that thing is G-d.

you are now saying he has no individuality personality etc... it is not my intention to discuss his nature.

and by the path you have chosen to take in your argument it is easy to say you can no longer defend your atheism.

I used to be an atheist too, then a theist, then a Christian, now I'm an orthodox Jew.
Judaism is scientific.

I encourage you to research.
Thread: People Thirst For the Truth

other universes don't solve the problem of the first cause, they just make the chain longer...
without G-d we are trapped in a loop of what came first.

I didn't mention multiple universes. I'm talking about a single, infinite space in which transitions (energy transfers, big bangs, call 'em whatever you want) continually happen. Nothing came "first". There is no need for a "first cause". Everything is as it always was and as it always will be.

Here we go again, itelligent genius idiots misquoting GOD.

God is not the source behind all of this. God is part of all this and he too has a source.