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The Christian trinity is an idol.

 
Dr VIP 1

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10/04/2016 03:43 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mono, why did you ignore my first comment on your thread?

lol Im joking, obviously you want a discussion so to be able to teach rather than a one line answer and finish the discussion.
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2016 03:47 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


What does all this stuff about neo-pagans have to do with advaita?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72834685


since you are promoting this hindu crap... you are a neo pagan who thinks we cant see that you are a neo pagan who has been literally brain cleansed by Judaism.

now you try to sell hinduism as if its monotheism... but its not.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


I'm not promoting "hindu crap," doc, and I'm not a neo-anything. Your delusions of Judeo-supremacy are what just that, but the idea that you guys have some kind of corner on monotheism is silly. Hell, for all the admonitions over and over throughout your book, your folk still strayed again and again, running back to their chosen gods, just as you claim for those who you say worship what you call lower manifestations. The notion that someone living in India is living in a JUDAIC world influenced by the torah is frankly silly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


thats why hare krishnash in india are pure pagans worshipping loads of gods.

and american hare krishanas are like "no there is only the supreme god and all other gods are really manifestations and metaphors who are not to be worshipped"

so as you can easily tell, americans are far more influenced by Judaic Hebraic thought than indians.

and excuse me, I am not going to address your comment about Israel falling into idolatry.

well maybe I would.
Israel falling is the same as what happened with christianity, pagans come in, and shove their paganism into Jewish themes and Jews fall for it because it feels better.
baalists coming in and saying, baal is the tetragrammaton, so Jews fell.
and then christians came in and pushed their same old trinity born of a virgin paganism into Judaism and Jews fell for it.
it says nothing about the teachings of Judaism, and you know it.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


The hare krishna movement does not at all reflect the full scope of Indic thought, and even there, they do not worship loads of gods. They are pretty much the equivalent of evangelical bible thumpers and they strictly adhere to krishna just as an evangelical has his formula for being saved and thinks the whole world is dependent on it.

I've been through your peculiar understanding of pagans and jews before, and I know you hold to the idea that the jews were always monotheistic, but I see no backing evidence of that even in your own book. They started out pagans, they adapted a peculiar henotheism, and finally they went full-on monotheistic.

There's a broadly similar arc in Indic thought, but their core understanding going back into the misty past (long before you guys were even a distinct people) that clearly speaks of a strict monotheism ala Brahman, which is not to be confused with Brahma, a mistake you have already made in an earlier discussion.
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


Well, no matter how you slice it, it's an Indic contribution to the mix, so since you put it forth as some sort of validation for your experience, maybe you might want to rethink your earlier notion that the vedic stream was devoid of value.

And then there is the rest of what I said there. When you say you path is with the true God, are you saying that that God's name is Yahweh and Yahweh alone?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


no, the name is infallible, BUT the Torah is the only message he gave man kind.

and no... third eye is not an indian concept it is found all over the world.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


No, doc. The torah isn't the only message. That dogmatic horseshit is just that--horseshit. If you think the system of which the third eye is but a part is found all over the world, well, it is now. But that's because it traveled out to the rest of asia when buddhism got up and left home while taking the earlier yogic system with it and then the next big wave came when it flowered after those colonialists mono cited (as support for your inane idea that the yogis got what they did from the torah) saw it as far deeper than that torah tale and brought it back to europe in the 18th and 19th century and again when the wave of yogis and buddhists started the reverse wave of cultural colonialism and went west.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


Wouldn't that have more to do with Western orientalists than proselytizing yogis?
 Quoting: Monotheism


The first wave out was the buddhists around the 2nd century bce or so, then the western orientalists have their period in the late 18th up till now, and the yogis came starting at the end of the 19th on into today.
Dr VIP 1

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10/04/2016 03:57 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
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since you are promoting this hindu crap... you are a neo pagan who thinks we cant see that you are a neo pagan who has been literally brain cleansed by Judaism.

now you try to sell hinduism as if its monotheism... but its not.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


I'm not promoting "hindu crap," doc, and I'm not a neo-anything. Your delusions of Judeo-supremacy are what just that, but the idea that you guys have some kind of corner on monotheism is silly. Hell, for all the admonitions over and over throughout your book, your folk still strayed again and again, running back to their chosen gods, just as you claim for those who you say worship what you call lower manifestations. The notion that someone living in India is living in a JUDAIC world influenced by the torah is frankly silly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


thats why hare krishnash in india are pure pagans worshipping loads of gods.

and american hare krishanas are like "no there is only the supreme god and all other gods are really manifestations and metaphors who are not to be worshipped"

so as you can easily tell, americans are far more influenced by Judaic Hebraic thought than indians.

and excuse me, I am not going to address your comment about Israel falling into idolatry.

well maybe I would.
Israel falling is the same as what happened with christianity, pagans come in, and shove their paganism into Jewish themes and Jews fall for it because it feels better.
baalists coming in and saying, baal is the tetragrammaton, so Jews fell.
and then christians came in and pushed their same old trinity born of a virgin paganism into Judaism and Jews fell for it.
it says nothing about the teachings of Judaism, and you know it.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


The hare krishna movement does not at all reflect the full scope of Indic thought, and even there, they do not worship loads of gods. They are pretty much the equivalent of evangelical bible thumpers and they strictly adhere to krishna just as an evangelical has his formula for being saved and thinks the whole world is dependent on it.

I've been through your peculiar understanding of pagans and jews before, and I know you hold to the idea that the jews were always monotheistic, but I see no backing evidence of that even in your own book. They started out pagans, they adapted a peculiar henotheism, and finally they went full-on monotheistic.

There's a broadly similar arc in Indic thought, but their core understanding going back into the misty past (long before you guys were even a distinct people) that clearly speaks of a strict monotheism ala Brahman, which is not to be confused with Brahma, a mistake you have already made in an earlier discussion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


indian hare krishna worships multiple gods (fact)
american hare krishna worhsip only the supreme god (fact) and I say its because they have been brought up in a Hebraic world.

weve been through this before and concluded you are a deceitful liar who is butthurt and chooses to twist and distort history to carry your claim.

Jews started as pagans in egypt, the heard G-d speak - boom monotheists and ever since then some Jews became pagans because of interactions with pagan religions.
thats real history (whether you want to say the sinai event is real or not is not the issue)

and the Jews who did not fall ended up changing the world so much that practically all pagan religions are reversing their pagan religions to say there is only one supreme god and his lower manifestaions are not worthy of worship.

thats history... you are just too butthurt to admit this wasnt always the case with pagan religions.

which ofcourse carried this message so far as to worship human kings as gods and open the door to absolut despot dictatorships, the very thing Judaism set out destroy and free the world from.

anyone who holds to these pagan ideas of inferior gods/kings worthy of worship are really spiritual homosexuals who like to worship penises the more the better.

so again no wonder Judaism is so anti gay and virtually all pagan religions are pro gays.

and dont deny there are indu temples wherein young man serve as prostitues for pilgrims.
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Monotheism  (OP)

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10/04/2016 03:58 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mono, why did you ignore my first comment on your thread?

lol Im joking, obviously you want a discussion so to be able to teach rather than a one line answer and finish the discussion.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


No worries, oneliners are welcome too. I don't even have the energy for an in-depth discussion atm. I just started a short, generic OP thinking I'd improvise as it goes. tounge

Last Edited by Monotheism on 10/04/2016 03:59 PM
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2016 04:04 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


No I don't, but I'm not talking about last week either.
 Quoting: Monotheism


third eye is neutral a knowledge belonging to man kind since the mutual father Noah (and Adam)

dont let him take you down the deceit full road where such neutral things supposedly prove that the bible is carrying the same message as pagan religions, which prevert the meaning of G-d.

Jacob's ladder (spine) at peney El, Pineal gland...
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Please doc, you can't claim it's neutral and then claim that your tradition's got the only ticket to the dance. This bit about Noah being this or that is just your take on the game. The Indic tradition has it's own take and their development predates yours by a long way. And for those who accuse you guys of perverting "true" Judaism with all that babylonian kabbalah crap, well, the winds came out of the east long before you guys were even a people by your own tale.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


third eye is not the message of the Torah, because thats what you are trying to say.

anyway... your initial claim was that indic traditions are monotheistic, well you were shown they are not, and now you go into this futile third eye Hebraic or indic discussion because you have nothing to say about the initial claim.

so... recognize your error, and drop it.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


I'm sorry, doc, but was that stuff about the hare krishnas supposed to be what you call showing? As for the rest, sorry, but you guys are a late development to the monotheistic party. You will just have to deal with it because nothing you say is going to change that.
Dr VIP 1

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10/04/2016 04:07 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


third eye is neutral a knowledge belonging to man kind since the mutual father Noah (and Adam)

dont let him take you down the deceit full road where such neutral things supposedly prove that the bible is carrying the same message as pagan religions, which prevert the meaning of G-d.

Jacob's ladder (spine) at peney El, Pineal gland...
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Please doc, you can't claim it's neutral and then claim that your tradition's got the only ticket to the dance. This bit about Noah being this or that is just your take on the game. The Indic tradition has it's own take and their development predates yours by a long way. And for those who accuse you guys of perverting "true" Judaism with all that babylonian kabbalah crap, well, the winds came out of the east long before you guys were even a people by your own tale.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


third eye is not the message of the Torah, because thats what you are trying to say.

anyway... your initial claim was that indic traditions are monotheistic, well you were shown they are not, and now you go into this futile third eye Hebraic or indic discussion because you have nothing to say about the initial claim.

so... recognize your error, and drop it.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


I'm sorry, doc, but was that stuff about the hare krishnas supposed to be what you call showing? As for the rest, sorry, but you guys are a late development to the monotheistic party. You will just have to deal with it because nothing you say is going to change that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


showing you real history and what these religions are about, but ofcourse you put your hands on your eyes and say "you call that showing"

late? yeah... who came before us? akhenaten who worshipped the sun? a created object? really akhenaten was AFTER Moses... and his reforms was like "yeah the ONE G-d of the Hebrew totally kicked our ass... guess we need to worship a one god."

now really show me the Monotheistic religion that predated Judaism.

Last Edited by Dr VIP 1 on 10/04/2016 04:07 PM
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Unchained

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10/04/2016 04:11 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Rome did not invent the trinity. The Trinity is one. You may not understand the concept of the 3 personalities or 3 person belief, but it is contain with in Old and New testament scriptures and they serve as a witness to the Trinity.

Not only did early New testament believers believe in the Trinity, but Jews during the time of Jesus and before, believed in the concept of the Trinity. They just did not call it the Trinity; Jewish minds may have thought of it as the 3 powers.

Just because you disagree with ANE linguistics specialists, historical documents and OT/NT writings; does not make your assertions correct.

The Christian mind did not base the Trinity on pagan beliefs, they based it on the inspired Word received to them and to the best of their limited abilities, described what they witnessed.

What mind can conceive the greatness of YHWH? We do our best with our limited knowledge capacity.

I will reiterate the triple point of a substance. It is a thermal dynamic property whereby a substance can exist as a solid, liquid and Gas, simultaneously. I believe it is the closest explanation of the concept of the Trinity? One substance in 3 states, simultaneously.
 Quoting: Unchained


Yes, Rome invented the trinity. It was enforced via secular law in the Edict of Thessalonica, and is defined still to this day in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed defining the consubstantial trinity and the Chalcedonian Creed defining Christ's nature and hypostic, with concepts adopted from Stoicism, Neoplatonism and Gnosticism.
 Quoting: Monotheism


I am not sure if you are meaning the word Trinity or other? But, I think you would agree the first time the word was used was by Theophilus of Antioch, probably around mid second century (150-160AD?), but I am guessing.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2016 04:15 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


I'm not promoting "hindu crap," doc, and I'm not a neo-anything. Your delusions of Judeo-supremacy are what just that, but the idea that you guys have some kind of corner on monotheism is silly. Hell, for all the admonitions over and over throughout your book, your folk still strayed again and again, running back to their chosen gods, just as you claim for those who you say worship what you call lower manifestations. The notion that someone living in India is living in a JUDAIC world influenced by the torah is frankly silly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


thats why hare krishnash in india are pure pagans worshipping loads of gods.

and american hare krishanas are like "no there is only the supreme god and all other gods are really manifestations and metaphors who are not to be worshipped"

so as you can easily tell, americans are far more influenced by Judaic Hebraic thought than indians.

and excuse me, I am not going to address your comment about Israel falling into idolatry.

well maybe I would.
Israel falling is the same as what happened with christianity, pagans come in, and shove their paganism into Jewish themes and Jews fall for it because it feels better.
baalists coming in and saying, baal is the tetragrammaton, so Jews fell.
and then christians came in and pushed their same old trinity born of a virgin paganism into Judaism and Jews fell for it.
it says nothing about the teachings of Judaism, and you know it.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


The hare krishna movement does not at all reflect the full scope of Indic thought, and even there, they do not worship loads of gods. They are pretty much the equivalent of evangelical bible thumpers and they strictly adhere to krishna just as an evangelical has his formula for being saved and thinks the whole world is dependent on it.

I've been through your peculiar understanding of pagans and jews before, and I know you hold to the idea that the jews were always monotheistic, but I see no backing evidence of that even in your own book. They started out pagans, they adapted a peculiar henotheism, and finally they went full-on monotheistic.

There's a broadly similar arc in Indic thought, but their core understanding going back into the misty past (long before you guys were even a distinct people) that clearly speaks of a strict monotheism ala Brahman, which is not to be confused with Brahma, a mistake you have already made in an earlier discussion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


indian hare krishna worships multiple gods (fact)
american hare krishna worhsip only the supreme god (fact) and I say its because they have been brought up in a Hebraic world.

weve been through this before and concluded you are a deceitful liar who is butthurt and chooses to twist and distort history to carry your claim.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Oh, is that what "we" concluded? Funny, my memory of the conclusion of that particular lengthy exchange is a bit different. Remember this:

I want to deeply apologize for all the mean shit and the inappropriate stuff I said.

I want to thank you for creating the opportunity allowing me to have an insight of experience to understand more deeply the issue of absolute/relative - good/bad truth/lie.

thank you, I genuinely feel this made me a lot smarter in my spiritual mystical journey, and that divine providence has ordained that we should have this discussion for this sake. the insights you have gained... be whatever they are.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1
Dr VIP 1

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
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thats why hare krishnash in india are pure pagans worshipping loads of gods.

and american hare krishanas are like "no there is only the supreme god and all other gods are really manifestations and metaphors who are not to be worshipped"

so as you can easily tell, americans are far more influenced by Judaic Hebraic thought than indians.

and excuse me, I am not going to address your comment about Israel falling into idolatry.

well maybe I would.
Israel falling is the same as what happened with christianity, pagans come in, and shove their paganism into Jewish themes and Jews fall for it because it feels better.
baalists coming in and saying, baal is the tetragrammaton, so Jews fell.
and then christians came in and pushed their same old trinity born of a virgin paganism into Judaism and Jews fell for it.
it says nothing about the teachings of Judaism, and you know it.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


The hare krishna movement does not at all reflect the full scope of Indic thought, and even there, they do not worship loads of gods. They are pretty much the equivalent of evangelical bible thumpers and they strictly adhere to krishna just as an evangelical has his formula for being saved and thinks the whole world is dependent on it.

I've been through your peculiar understanding of pagans and jews before, and I know you hold to the idea that the jews were always monotheistic, but I see no backing evidence of that even in your own book. They started out pagans, they adapted a peculiar henotheism, and finally they went full-on monotheistic.

There's a broadly similar arc in Indic thought, but their core understanding going back into the misty past (long before you guys were even a distinct people) that clearly speaks of a strict monotheism ala Brahman, which is not to be confused with Brahma, a mistake you have already made in an earlier discussion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


indian hare krishna worships multiple gods (fact)
american hare krishna worhsip only the supreme god (fact) and I say its because they have been brought up in a Hebraic world.

weve been through this before and concluded you are a deceitful liar who is butthurt and chooses to twist and distort history to carry your claim.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Oh, is that what "we" concluded? Funny, my memory of the conclusion of that particular lengthy exchange is a bit different. Remember this:

I want to deeply apologize for all the mean shit and the inappropriate stuff I said.

I want to thank you for creating the opportunity allowing me to have an insight of experience to understand more deeply the issue of absolute/relative - good/bad truth/lie.

thank you, I genuinely feel this made me a lot smarter in my spiritual mystical journey, and that divine providence has ordained that we should have this discussion for this sake. the insights you have gained... be whatever they are.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


no, thats not part of that conclusion.
the agreement was over the time line (that neither of us, and that includes you, could prove which is right Jewish timeline or academic timeline [which I remind you, admits of being wrong itself]), not your butthurt pathetic attempts of reverse engineering Jewish history.

you ---> "oh Jews sinned and worshipped baal? thats because they always worshipped baal as part of their pantheon"

Last Edited by Dr VIP 1 on 10/04/2016 04:19 PM
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2016 04:28 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Jesus, a false prophet?
And, do we really believe in 3 different Gods?
trinity ?
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Jesus Resurrected from the dead!
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Evolution vs. God - No Change of Kind
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Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2016 04:29 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


The hare krishna movement does not at all reflect the full scope of Indic thought, and even there, they do not worship loads of gods. They are pretty much the equivalent of evangelical bible thumpers and they strictly adhere to krishna just as an evangelical has his formula for being saved and thinks the whole world is dependent on it.

I've been through your peculiar understanding of pagans and jews before, and I know you hold to the idea that the jews were always monotheistic, but I see no backing evidence of that even in your own book. They started out pagans, they adapted a peculiar henotheism, and finally they went full-on monotheistic.

There's a broadly similar arc in Indic thought, but their core understanding going back into the misty past (long before you guys were even a distinct people) that clearly speaks of a strict monotheism ala Brahman, which is not to be confused with Brahma, a mistake you have already made in an earlier discussion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


indian hare krishna worships multiple gods (fact)
american hare krishna worhsip only the supreme god (fact) and I say its because they have been brought up in a Hebraic world.

weve been through this before and concluded you are a deceitful liar who is butthurt and chooses to twist and distort history to carry your claim.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Oh, is that what "we" concluded? Funny, my memory of the conclusion of that particular lengthy exchange is a bit different. Remember this:

I want to deeply apologize for all the mean shit and the inappropriate stuff I said.

I want to thank you for creating the opportunity allowing me to have an insight of experience to understand more deeply the issue of absolute/relative - good/bad truth/lie.

thank you, I genuinely feel this made me a lot smarter in my spiritual mystical journey, and that divine providence has ordained that we should have this discussion for this sake. the insights you have gained... be whatever they are.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


no, thats not part of that conclusion.
the agreement was over the time line, not your butthurt pathetic attempts of reverse engineering Jewish history.

you ---> "oh Jews sinned and worshipped baal? thats because they always worshipped baal as part of their pantheon"
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Sorry, doc. Your words are your words, and your munging of my words into what you have put here is inaccurate and the pixels in that thread tell the story much better than your sloppy revision.

And what you call my reverse engineering is not my anything. Of course, you reject all scholarship that goes against your views. Fine. But outside your narrow orthodox worldview, nobody else buys what you are selling. Well, except the evangelicals, and I'm sure that pisses you off too, since everything invariably does.
Dr VIP 1

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10/04/2016 04:33 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


indian hare krishna worships multiple gods (fact)
american hare krishna worhsip only the supreme god (fact) and I say its because they have been brought up in a Hebraic world.

weve been through this before and concluded you are a deceitful liar who is butthurt and chooses to twist and distort history to carry your claim.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Oh, is that what "we" concluded? Funny, my memory of the conclusion of that particular lengthy exchange is a bit different. Remember this:

I want to deeply apologize for all the mean shit and the inappropriate stuff I said.

I want to thank you for creating the opportunity allowing me to have an insight of experience to understand more deeply the issue of absolute/relative - good/bad truth/lie.

thank you, I genuinely feel this made me a lot smarter in my spiritual mystical journey, and that divine providence has ordained that we should have this discussion for this sake. the insights you have gained... be whatever they are.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


no, thats not part of that conclusion.
the agreement was over the time line, not your butthurt pathetic attempts of reverse engineering Jewish history.

you ---> "oh Jews sinned and worshipped baal? thats because they always worshipped baal as part of their pantheon"
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Sorry, doc. Your words are your words, and your munging of my words into what you have put here is inaccurate and the pixels in that thread tell the story much better than your sloppy revision.

And what you call my reverse engineering is not my anything. Of course, you reject all scholarship that goes against your views. Fine. But outside your narrow orthodox worldview, nobody else buys what you are selling. Well, except the evangelicals, and I'm sure that pisses you off too, since everything invariably does.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72384847


says the one totally living in a Hebraic world.

but ok, we are not proselytizing, we dont sell. we just are, and the world conforms.

sure there are some left overs in higher escholons coming up with academia lies scifi lies other religion lies straight up bullshit lies to descredit us, but thats because they are scared of the change we brought which would end up destroying their empire (you know what theme and historical narrative I am talking about) but... we can see and this site as testimony we are successful and uniting the world against them.

you are fighting windmills.
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Unchained

User ID: 32906416
United States
10/04/2016 04:54 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Rome did not invent the trinity. The Trinity is one. You may not understand the concept of the 3 personalities or 3 person belief, but it is contain with in Old and New testament scriptures and they serve as a witness to the Trinity.

Not only did early New testament believers believe in the Trinity, but Jews during the time of Jesus and before, believed in the concept of the Trinity. They just did not call it the Trinity; Jewish minds may have thought of it as the 3 powers.

Just because you disagree with ANE linguistics specialists, historical documents and OT/NT writings; does not make your assertions correct.

The Christian mind did not base the Trinity on pagan beliefs, they based it on the inspired Word received to them and to the best of their limited abilities, described what they witnessed.

What mind can conceive the greatness of YHWH? We do our best with our limited knowledge capacity.

I will reiterate the triple point of a substance. It is a thermal dynamic property whereby a substance can exist as a solid, liquid and Gas, simultaneously. I believe it is the closest explanation of the concept of the Trinity? One substance in 3 states, simultaneously.
 Quoting: Unchained


Yes, Rome invented the trinity. It was enforced via secular law in the Edict of Thessalonica, and is defined still to this day in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed defining the consubstantial trinity and the Chalcedonian Creed defining Christ's nature and hypostic, with concepts adopted from Stoicism, Neoplatonism and Gnosticism.
 Quoting: Monotheism


I am not sure if you are meaning the word Trinity or other? But, I think you would agree the first time the word was used was by Theophilus of Antioch, probably around mid second century (150-160AD?), but I am guessing.
 Quoting: Unchained

I found the quote from Theophilus:
Theophilus explains the Trinity as follows:
In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom. And the fourth is the type of man, who needs light, that so there may be God, the Word, wisdom, man.
 Theophilus
Since Theophilus died in 183-185 AD. In The "Apology to Autolycus" many believe the writing was in between 169 and 183 AD (not 150-160 AD, I guess, but I could have sworn I read that some where). In addition, I believe he was taught this concept and probably was not the first to use the word. He was explaining the Trinity to a pagan so the pagan would not be confused about the concept of the Trinity.

Link: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

So, if you already knew this, I am not sure where you get Rome invented the "Trinity"?
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2016 05:07 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


Please doc, you can't claim it's neutral and then claim that your tradition's got the only ticket to the dance. This bit about Noah being this or that is just your take on the game. The Indic tradition has it's own take and their development predates yours by a long way. And for those who accuse you guys of perverting "true" Judaism with all that babylonian kabbalah crap, well, the winds came out of the east long before you guys were even a people by your own tale.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


third eye is not the message of the Torah, because thats what you are trying to say.

anyway... your initial claim was that indic traditions are monotheistic, well you were shown they are not, and now you go into this futile third eye Hebraic or indic discussion because you have nothing to say about the initial claim.

so... recognize your error, and drop it.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


I'm sorry, doc, but was that stuff about the hare krishnas supposed to be what you call showing? As for the rest, sorry, but you guys are a late development to the monotheistic party. You will just have to deal with it because nothing you say is going to change that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


showing you real history and what these religions are about, but ofcourse you put your hands on your eyes and say "you call that showing"

late? yeah... who came before us? akhenaten who worshipped the sun? a created object? really akhenaten was AFTER Moses... and his reforms was like "yeah the ONE G-d of the Hebrew totally kicked our ass... guess we need to worship a one god."

now really show me the Monotheistic religion that predated Judaism.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Verily He is one
Single, indivisible, supreme reality.
Atharva Veda 13/4/20

He is the sole sovereign
Of the universe.
Rig Veda 6/36/4

He is one, unparalleled
Through His wondrous, mighty
And formidable laws and deeds.
Rig Veda 8/1/27

He is One Brahma
The Creator of the cosmos
Who pervades and protects
And enlightens aft beings
He is One Supreme Entity
Whom sages call by various names
Such as Indra, the glorious
Mitra, the benign friend
Varuna, the greatest, the noblest
Agni, the resplendent, the bright
Yama, the dispenser of justice
Matarishwa, the almighty.
Rig Veda 1/164/46

He, the all-pervasive
Pervades all beings
Within and without.
Yajur Veda 32/8
Monotheism  (OP)

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10/04/2016 05:07 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Rome did not invent the trinity. The Trinity is one. You may not understand the concept of the 3 personalities or 3 person belief, but it is contain with in Old and New testament scriptures and they serve as a witness to the Trinity.

Not only did early New testament believers believe in the Trinity, but Jews during the time of Jesus and before, believed in the concept of the Trinity. They just did not call it the Trinity; Jewish minds may have thought of it as the 3 powers.

Just because you disagree with ANE linguistics specialists, historical documents and OT/NT writings; does not make your assertions correct.

The Christian mind did not base the Trinity on pagan beliefs, they based it on the inspired Word received to them and to the best of their limited abilities, described what they witnessed.

What mind can conceive the greatness of YHWH? We do our best with our limited knowledge capacity.

I will reiterate the triple point of a substance. It is a thermal dynamic property whereby a substance can exist as a solid, liquid and Gas, simultaneously. I believe it is the closest explanation of the concept of the Trinity? One substance in 3 states, simultaneously.
 Quoting: Unchained


Yes, Rome invented the trinity. It was enforced via secular law in the Edict of Thessalonica, and is defined still to this day in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed defining the consubstantial trinity and the Chalcedonian Creed defining Christ's nature and hypostic, with concepts adopted from Stoicism, Neoplatonism and Gnosticism.
 Quoting: Monotheism


I am not sure if you are meaning the word Trinity or other? But, I think you would agree the first time the word was used was by Theophilus of Antioch, probably around mid second century (150-160AD?), but I am guessing.
 Quoting: Unchained

I found the quote from Theophilus:
Theophilus explains the Trinity as follows:
In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom. And the fourth is the type of man, who needs light, that so there may be God, the Word, wisdom, man.
 Theophilus
Since Theophilus died in 183-185 AD. In The "Apology to Autolycus" many believe the writing was in between 169 and 183 AD (not 150-160 AD, I guess, but I could have sworn I read that some where). In addition, I believe he was taught this concept and probably was not the first to use the word. He was explaining the Trinity to a pagan so the pagan would not be confused about the concept of the Trinity.

Link: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

So, if you already knew this, I am not sure where you get Rome invented the "Trinity"?
 Quoting: Unchained


Theophilus was an Antiochian bishop, why would I care about what a secodn century bishop of the Roman empire has to say? And he used the word to describe the relationship between God and His word and knowledge, and not even remotely in the sense of the systematic trinity that was yet to be invented.

And He is without beginning, since He is unbegotten; and He is unchangeable, because He is immortal. And he is called God... He is Lord, because He rules over the universe, Father, because He is before all things, Fashioner and Maker, because He is Creator and Maker of the cosmos, the Highest, because of His being above all, and Almighty, because He Himself rules and embraces all. For the heights of heaven, and the depths of the abysses, and the ends of the earth, are in His hand, and there is no place of His rest. For the heavens are His work, the earth is His creation, the sea is His handiwork, man is His formation and His image; sun, moon, and stars are His elements, made for signs, and seasons, and days, and years, that they may serve and be servants to humanity, and all things God has made out of things that were not into things that are, in order that through His works His greatness may be known and understood. (To Autolycus, I, 4)

No trinity there, as you can see.

And even if Theophilus invented the trinity - which he didn't - you would only prove my point. He was a part of the bishopry of the Roman empire.

Besides, the first to invent the idea of God existing in three hyposteses was Valentinus, a Gnostic heresiarch.

Last Edited by Monotheism on 10/04/2016 05:12 PM
Dr VIP 1

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10/04/2016 05:47 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


third eye is not the message of the Torah, because thats what you are trying to say.

anyway... your initial claim was that indic traditions are monotheistic, well you were shown they are not, and now you go into this futile third eye Hebraic or indic discussion because you have nothing to say about the initial claim.

so... recognize your error, and drop it.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


I'm sorry, doc, but was that stuff about the hare krishnas supposed to be what you call showing? As for the rest, sorry, but you guys are a late development to the monotheistic party. You will just have to deal with it because nothing you say is going to change that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


showing you real history and what these religions are about, but ofcourse you put your hands on your eyes and say "you call that showing"

late? yeah... who came before us? akhenaten who worshipped the sun? a created object? really akhenaten was AFTER Moses... and his reforms was like "yeah the ONE G-d of the Hebrew totally kicked our ass... guess we need to worship a one god."

now really show me the Monotheistic religion that predated Judaism.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Verily He is one
Single, indivisible, supreme reality.
Atharva Veda 13/4/20

He is the sole sovereign
Of the universe.
Rig Veda 6/36/4

He is one, unparalleled
Through His wondrous, mighty
And formidable laws and deeds.
Rig Veda 8/1/27

He is One Brahma
The Creator of the cosmos
Who pervades and protects
And enlightens aft beings
He is One Supreme Entity
Whom sages call by various names
Such as Indra, the glorious
Mitra, the benign friend
Varuna, the greatest, the noblest
Agni, the resplendent, the bright
Yama, the dispenser of justice
Matarishwa, the almighty.
Rig Veda 1/164/46

He, the all-pervasive
Pervades all beings
Within and without.
Yajur Veda 32/8
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72384847


never said these religions dont recognize that in the end, there is ONE.

problem is... they WORSHIP more than just THE ONE they worship monkey gods, lots of hands gods river gods etc.
thats... not monotheism.
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72963668
United States
10/04/2016 05:51 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
It's a false, conceptualized image of the true God, and the golden calf of Christianity. To serve the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob you need to reject the trinity idol.
 Quoting: Monotheism


I see your still at it


you got any converts on GLP yet ?


the jews in the days of Yahshua - wow - I am not impressed

They followed the Law - knew it

didn't see Yahshua standing right in front of them

today's Messianic Jews - what a loving bunch you are

I got to go I am burning my bacon for my egg sandwich

:ffghyt66:
Monotheism  (OP)

User ID: 73065456
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10/04/2016 05:56 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
It's a false, conceptualized image of the true God, and the golden calf of Christianity. To serve the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob you need to reject the trinity idol.
 Quoting: Monotheism


I see your still at it


you got any converts on GLP yet ?


the jews in the days of Yahshua - wow - I am not impressed

They followed the Law - knew it

didn't see Yahshua standing right in front of them

today's Messianic Jews - what a loving bunch you are

I got to go I am burning my bacon for my egg sandwich

:ffghyt66:
 Quoting: Ice


I'm not looking for any converts, my friend, but I've at least opened a few eyes.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2016 06:17 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


I'm sorry, doc, but was that stuff about the hare krishnas supposed to be what you call showing? As for the rest, sorry, but you guys are a late development to the monotheistic party. You will just have to deal with it because nothing you say is going to change that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


showing you real history and what these religions are about, but ofcourse you put your hands on your eyes and say "you call that showing"

late? yeah... who came before us? akhenaten who worshipped the sun? a created object? really akhenaten was AFTER Moses... and his reforms was like "yeah the ONE G-d of the Hebrew totally kicked our ass... guess we need to worship a one god."

now really show me the Monotheistic religion that predated Judaism.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Verily He is one
Single, indivisible, supreme reality.
Atharva Veda 13/4/20

He is the sole sovereign
Of the universe.
Rig Veda 6/36/4

He is one, unparalleled
Through His wondrous, mighty
And formidable laws and deeds.
Rig Veda 8/1/27

He is One Brahma
The Creator of the cosmos
Who pervades and protects
And enlightens aft beings
He is One Supreme Entity
Whom sages call by various names
Such as Indra, the glorious
Mitra, the benign friend
Varuna, the greatest, the noblest
Agni, the resplendent, the bright
Yama, the dispenser of justice
Matarishwa, the almighty.
Rig Veda 1/164/46

He, the all-pervasive
Pervades all beings
Within and without.
Yajur Veda 32/8
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72384847


never said these religions dont recognize that in the end, there is ONE.

problem is... they WORSHIP more than just THE ONE they worship monkey gods, lots of hands gods river gods etc.
thats... not monotheism.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Sorry, doc. They may express their worship as they will, but they don't recognize in the end there is One. They recognize that upfront. Like I said, you guys didn't come up with anything first.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72963668
United States
10/04/2016 06:25 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

I say it every Sunday I go to church

I believe in the Father

I believe in His son

I believe in the Holy Spirit

yep - yes I do
Dr VIP 1

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10/04/2016 06:25 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


showing you real history and what these religions are about, but ofcourse you put your hands on your eyes and say "you call that showing"

late? yeah... who came before us? akhenaten who worshipped the sun? a created object? really akhenaten was AFTER Moses... and his reforms was like "yeah the ONE G-d of the Hebrew totally kicked our ass... guess we need to worship a one god."

now really show me the Monotheistic religion that predated Judaism.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Verily He is one
Single, indivisible, supreme reality.
Atharva Veda 13/4/20

He is the sole sovereign
Of the universe.
Rig Veda 6/36/4

He is one, unparalleled
Through His wondrous, mighty
And formidable laws and deeds.
Rig Veda 8/1/27

He is One Brahma
The Creator of the cosmos
Who pervades and protects
And enlightens aft beings
He is One Supreme Entity
Whom sages call by various names
Such as Indra, the glorious
Mitra, the benign friend
Varuna, the greatest, the noblest
Agni, the resplendent, the bright
Yama, the dispenser of justice
Matarishwa, the almighty.
Rig Veda 1/164/46

He, the all-pervasive
Pervades all beings
Within and without.
Yajur Veda 32/8
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72384847


never said these religions dont recognize that in the end, there is ONE.

problem is... they WORSHIP more than just THE ONE they worship monkey gods, lots of hands gods river gods etc.
thats... not monotheism.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Sorry, doc. They may express their worship as they will, but they don't recognize in the end there is One. They recognize that upfront. Like I said, you guys didn't come up with anything first.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72869587


"they may express their worship as they will"

that is you basically saying I am right you are wrong because you dont understand what Judaic monotheism is.

and now thanks to Judaism humanity has learned (still some work remaining) that it is only that upfront understanding of THE ONE that is to be worshipped and deified... not stars not trees not rivers and not monkeys.

so, please show me the religion the predates us that carries the same message

all you did was showing you dont understand what monotheism is.

believing that there is a ONE and then lower dualism which is worshipped and then a plathora of gods who are worhispped and then HUMAN TYRANTS who are worshipped and then divine states who are worshipped... thats not monotheism, thats paganism.

it is Judaism and our friends among the nations who have taught the world that only THE ONE is to be worshipped and considered divine.

so imagine a world without Judaism... imagine your wife taken by the king who is a god and deflowered in the ancient rite of prima nocta.
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Unchained

User ID: 32906416
United States
10/04/2016 06:31 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


Yes, Rome invented the trinity. It was enforced via secular law in the Edict of Thessalonica, and is defined still to this day in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed defining the consubstantial trinity and the Chalcedonian Creed defining Christ's nature and hypostic, with concepts adopted from Stoicism, Neoplatonism and Gnosticism.
 Quoting: Monotheism


I am not sure if you are meaning the word Trinity or other? But, I think you would agree the first time the word was used was by Theophilus of Antioch, probably around mid second century (150-160AD?), but I am guessing.
 Quoting: Unchained

I found the quote from Theophilus:
Theophilus explains the Trinity as follows:
In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom. And the fourth is the type of man, who needs light, that so there may be God, the Word, wisdom, man.
 Theophilus
Since Theophilus died in 183-185 AD. In The "Apology to Autolycus" many believe the writing was in between 169 and 183 AD (not 150-160 AD, I guess, but I could have sworn I read that some where). In addition, I believe he was taught this concept and probably was not the first to use the word. He was explaining the Trinity to a pagan so the pagan would not be confused about the concept of the Trinity.

Link: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

So, if you already knew this, I am not sure where you get Rome invented the "Trinity"?
 Quoting: Unchained


Theophilus was an Antiochian bishop, why would I care about what a secodn century bishop of the Roman empire has to say? And he used the word to describe the relationship between God and His word and knowledge, and not even remotely in the sense of the systematic trinity that was yet to be invented.

And He is without beginning, since He is unbegotten; and He is unchangeable, because He is immortal. And he is called God... He is Lord, because He rules over the universe, Father, because He is before all things, Fashioner and Maker, because He is Creator and Maker of the cosmos, the Highest, because of His being above all, and Almighty, because He Himself rules and embraces all. For the heights of heaven, and the depths of the abysses, and the ends of the earth, are in His hand, and there is no place of His rest. For the heavens are His work, the earth is His creation, the sea is His handiwork, man is His formation and His image; sun, moon, and stars are His elements, made for signs, and seasons, and days, and years, that they may serve and be servants to humanity, and all things God has made out of things that were not into things that are, in order that through His works His greatness may be known and understood. (To Autolycus, I, 4)

No trinity there, as you can see.

And even if Theophilus invented the trinity - which he didn't - you would only prove my point. He was a part of the bishopry of the Roman empire.

Besides, the first to invent the idea of God existing in three hyposteses was Valentinus, a Gnostic heresiarch.
 Quoting: Monotheism

So, was Arianism also created by the Roman Empire? That is your logic. But, why stop there? Trace the history of the Roman Empire to the Greeks, the Greeks to the Egyptians, the Egyptians to the Phoenicians, the Phoenicians to the Bulls of Bashann, to the Tower of Babel, to the intermingling of the Sons of God with woman, to the serpent in the garden...and beyond.
Concerning Theophilus and your comment above, really? I revealed to you Theophilus believed in the Trinity, yet you back away again. You believe that Rome was responsible for his belief? Do you know his history with Marcus Aurelius and his subordinates towards Christians?
[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
"In the first two centuries of the Christian era, it was local Roman officials who were largely responsible for persecution of Christians. In the second century, the emperors treated Christianity as a local problem to be dealt with by their subordinates.[271] The number and severity of persecutions of Christians in various locations of the empire seemingly increased during the reign of Marcus Aurelius. The extent to which Marcus Aurelius himself directed, encouraged, or was aware of these persecutions is unclear and much debated by historians.[272] According to Gibbon with the onset of the Germanic war, his treatment of the Christians degraded with increased persecutions uncharacteristic of the previous years of his reign, and those of his predecessors.[273]
Anonymous Coward
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Well, no matter how you slice it, it's an Indic contribution to the mix, so since you put it forth as some sort of validation for your experience, maybe you might want to rethink your earlier notion that the vedic stream was devoid of value.

And then there is the rest of what I said there. When you say you path is with the true God, are you saying that that God's name is Yahweh and Yahweh alone?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


I never said it was devoid of value, I said it was devoid of purity. It is. I had a point of mentioning that particular experience too.

Yes, that is the true God. But I don't use that name.
 Quoting: Monotheism


Well, even the yogis who speak of Krishna or Shiva being the absolute understand that any name is just a convenient place holder for that which is ultimately beyond name and form and conception. So if you insist that you have the one true "right" name, or if you think it's what you call the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac, well, that's all good if it works for you, but to insist it must work for all or is the only true path is unsupportable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


one the infallible name and its holiness becomes a pantheon of pagan gods... thats a problem that is not supported by nature which would result in the collapse of such a civilization.

and thats really the unique message of Torah, ONE G-d with none besides him.

and now all other pagan religions are starting to say the same thing by reverse engineering their shit and saying it is better than Judaism and Judaism borrowed from them.
that is ofcourse... horse crap.
but you are too butthurt to admit that.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


I'm not the butthurt one, doc. You have this pathological need to see yourself and your folk as superior in all things and it's kinda sad, to tell you the truth. Look at your bit about the collapse of a civilization. Wtf is that about? Who the are you guys to talk about civilizations? You never even had a civilization to collapse, but are a tiny tribe that has been bounced around from civilization to civilization always under someone's thumb or heel, whether it was Egypt, Babylon, Greece, or Rome. And yet you think you guys are gonna bring torah to the world to save it and everybody is going to dance to Yahweh's tune. And yet, even there, it all has to come by subterfuge and deceit.
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10/04/2016 06:48 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


I never said it was devoid of value, I said it was devoid of purity. It is. I had a point of mentioning that particular experience too.

Yes, that is the true God. But I don't use that name.
 Quoting: Monotheism


Well, even the yogis who speak of Krishna or Shiva being the absolute understand that any name is just a convenient place holder for that which is ultimately beyond name and form and conception. So if you insist that you have the one true "right" name, or if you think it's what you call the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac, well, that's all good if it works for you, but to insist it must work for all or is the only true path is unsupportable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72764350


one the infallible name and its holiness becomes a pantheon of pagan gods... thats a problem that is not supported by nature which would result in the collapse of such a civilization.

and thats really the unique message of Torah, ONE G-d with none besides him.

and now all other pagan religions are starting to say the same thing by reverse engineering their shit and saying it is better than Judaism and Judaism borrowed from them.
that is ofcourse... horse crap.
but you are too butthurt to admit that.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


I'm not the butthurt one, doc. You have this pathological need to see yourself and your folk as superior in all things and it's kinda sad, to tell you the truth. Look at your bit about the collapse of a civilization. Wtf is that about? Who the are you guys to talk about civilizations? You never even had a civilization to collapse, but are a tiny tribe that has been bounced around from civilization to civilization always under someone's thumb or heel, whether it was Egypt, Babylon, Greece, or Rome. And yet you think you guys are gonna bring torah to the world to save it and everybody is going to dance to Yahweh's tune. And yet, even there, it all has to come by subterfuge and deceit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72869587


subterfuge a deciet? I honestly thought you were better than this.

and now I am sure you are butthurt, because it is an Hebraic world you are living in, not whatever is your own cultural backround.
I am not sorry that Hebrewism is wining despite you being butthurt.

and no, we are not successful because we are very good, we are actually not so good, as is really obvious. we are successful because the Torah is true.

so ofcourse other races like you... are butthurt and you constantly throw these lies at us trying to stop us... not going to happen

and you know whats funny? it is obvious the butthurt comes from the fact it is Hebrewism and not your own culture that is dominating, and the funny part is that we are winning so hard that you are not even trying to use only your culture agaisnt us, but other cultures, as if such tiny tribe is so powerful for one culture to take on alone, but now the entire cultures and histories of the world need to be recruited.

as nixon said, aliens would cause humanity to unite lol.

Last Edited by Dr VIP 1 on 10/04/2016 06:50 PM
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72869587
10/04/2016 06:51 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


Verily He is one
Single, indivisible, supreme reality.
Atharva Veda 13/4/20

He is the sole sovereign
Of the universe.
Rig Veda 6/36/4

He is one, unparalleled
Through His wondrous, mighty
And formidable laws and deeds.
Rig Veda 8/1/27

He is One Brahma
The Creator of the cosmos
Who pervades and protects
And enlightens aft beings
He is One Supreme Entity
Whom sages call by various names
Such as Indra, the glorious
Mitra, the benign friend
Varuna, the greatest, the noblest
Agni, the resplendent, the bright
Yama, the dispenser of justice
Matarishwa, the almighty.
Rig Veda 1/164/46

He, the all-pervasive
Pervades all beings
Within and without.
Yajur Veda 32/8
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72384847


never said these religions dont recognize that in the end, there is ONE.

problem is... they WORSHIP more than just THE ONE they worship monkey gods, lots of hands gods river gods etc.
thats... not monotheism.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Sorry, doc. They may express their worship as they will, but they don't recognize in the end there is One. They recognize that upfront. Like I said, you guys didn't come up with anything first.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72869587


"they may express their worship as they will"

that is you basically saying I am right you are wrong because you dont understand what Judaic monotheism is.

and now thanks to Judaism humanity has learned (still some work remaining) that it is only that upfront understanding of THE ONE that is to be worshipped and deified... not stars not trees not rivers and not monkeys.

so, please show me the religion the predates us that carries the same message

all you did was showing you dont understand what monotheism is.

believing that there is a ONE and then lower dualism which is worshipped and then a plathora of gods who are worhispped and then HUMAN TYRANTS who are worshipped and then divine states who are worshipped... thats not monotheism, thats paganism.

it is Judaism and our friends among the nations who have taught the world that only THE ONE is to be worshipped and considered divine.

so imagine a world without Judaism... imagine your wife taken by the king who is a god and deflowered in the ancient rite of prima nocta.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


None of that is what I am talking about, doc. There is only the One. Hinduism understand that quite well, even there are multitudinous expressions of it. Hell, they take it a step beyond you guys because you trip all over the idea that the creator and created and never the twain shall meet while they know that there is only the One. Period. And ultimately they don't worship it, the realize they are one with it because everything is one with it because It is all there is and the rest is a show of light and shadow, an illusion.
Monotheism  (OP)

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10/04/2016 06:52 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


I am not sure if you are meaning the word Trinity or other? But, I think you would agree the first time the word was used was by Theophilus of Antioch, probably around mid second century (150-160AD?), but I am guessing.
 Quoting: Unchained

I found the quote from Theophilus:
Theophilus explains the Trinity as follows:
In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom. And the fourth is the type of man, who needs light, that so there may be God, the Word, wisdom, man.
 Theophilus
Since Theophilus died in 183-185 AD. In The "Apology to Autolycus" many believe the writing was in between 169 and 183 AD (not 150-160 AD, I guess, but I could have sworn I read that some where). In addition, I believe he was taught this concept and probably was not the first to use the word. He was explaining the Trinity to a pagan so the pagan would not be confused about the concept of the Trinity.

Link: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

So, if you already knew this, I am not sure where you get Rome invented the "Trinity"?
 Quoting: Unchained


Theophilus was an Antiochian bishop, why would I care about what a secodn century bishop of the Roman empire has to say? And he used the word to describe the relationship between God and His word and knowledge, and not even remotely in the sense of the systematic trinity that was yet to be invented.

And He is without beginning, since He is unbegotten; and He is unchangeable, because He is immortal. And he is called God... He is Lord, because He rules over the universe, Father, because He is before all things, Fashioner and Maker, because He is Creator and Maker of the cosmos, the Highest, because of His being above all, and Almighty, because He Himself rules and embraces all. For the heights of heaven, and the depths of the abysses, and the ends of the earth, are in His hand, and there is no place of His rest. For the heavens are His work, the earth is His creation, the sea is His handiwork, man is His formation and His image; sun, moon, and stars are His elements, made for signs, and seasons, and days, and years, that they may serve and be servants to humanity, and all things God has made out of things that were not into things that are, in order that through His works His greatness may be known and understood. (To Autolycus, I, 4)

No trinity there, as you can see.

And even if Theophilus invented the trinity - which he didn't - you would only prove my point. He was a part of the bishopry of the Roman empire.

Besides, the first to invent the idea of God existing in three hyposteses was Valentinus, a Gnostic heresiarch.
 Quoting: Monotheism

So, was Arianism also created by the Roman Empire? That is your logic. But, why stop there? Trace the history of the Roman Empire to the Greeks, the Greeks to the Egyptians, the Egyptians to the Phoenicians, the Phoenicians to the Bulls of Bashann, to the Tower of Babel, to the intermingling of the Sons of God with woman, to the serpent in the garden...and beyond.
Concerning Theophilus and your comment above, really? I revealed to you Theophilus believed in the Trinity, yet you back away again. You believe that Rome was responsible for his belief? Do you know his history with Marcus Aurelius and his subordinates towards Christians?
[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
"In the first two centuries of the Christian era, it was local Roman officials who were largely responsible for persecution of Christians. In the second century, the emperors treated Christianity as a local problem to be dealt with by their subordinates.[271] The number and severity of persecutions of Christians in various locations of the empire seemingly increased during the reign of Marcus Aurelius. The extent to which Marcus Aurelius himself directed, encouraged, or was aware of these persecutions is unclear and much debated by historians.[272] According to Gibbon with the onset of the Germanic war, his treatment of the Christians degraded with increased persecutions uncharacteristic of the previous years of his reign, and those of his predecessors.[273]
 Quoting: Unchained


No, Theophilus did not believe in the trinity, the trinity wasn't even invented yet. He was using the word trias, and in a whole nother sense then in regards to a systematic trinity. As you see, he makes no mention of the holy spirit but knowledge, and believed in the supremacy of the Father. And there's no mention of any ousia or hypostases either.

It doesn't matter whan Roman bishop thinks anyway. That's the point. The trinity is a perverse invention of Roman emperors, the papacy and the Roman bishopry (to which Theophilus belonged). Antioch, like Alexandria, Constantinople and Rome, was a major centre and episcopal see of the Roman church.
Dr VIP 1

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10/04/2016 06:53 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


never said these religions dont recognize that in the end, there is ONE.

problem is... they WORSHIP more than just THE ONE they worship monkey gods, lots of hands gods river gods etc.
thats... not monotheism.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Sorry, doc. They may express their worship as they will, but they don't recognize in the end there is One. They recognize that upfront. Like I said, you guys didn't come up with anything first.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72869587


"they may express their worship as they will"

that is you basically saying I am right you are wrong because you dont understand what Judaic monotheism is.

and now thanks to Judaism humanity has learned (still some work remaining) that it is only that upfront understanding of THE ONE that is to be worshipped and deified... not stars not trees not rivers and not monkeys.

so, please show me the religion the predates us that carries the same message

all you did was showing you dont understand what monotheism is.

believing that there is a ONE and then lower dualism which is worshipped and then a plathora of gods who are worhispped and then HUMAN TYRANTS who are worshipped and then divine states who are worshipped... thats not monotheism, thats paganism.

it is Judaism and our friends among the nations who have taught the world that only THE ONE is to be worshipped and considered divine.

so imagine a world without Judaism... imagine your wife taken by the king who is a god and deflowered in the ancient rite of prima nocta.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


None of that is what I am talking about, doc. There is only the One. Hinduism understand that quite well, even there are multitudinous expressions of it. Hell, they take it a step beyond you guys because you trip all over the idea that the creator and created and never the twain shall meet while they know that there is only the One. Period. And ultimately they don't worship it, the realize they are one with it because everything is one with it because It is all there is and the rest is a show of light and shadow, an illusion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72869587


and then they go into the temples and worship monkeys and rivers and they claim their king is god.

yeah... but you ignore reality just to carry with your stupid point.
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2016 06:59 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
It's a false, conceptualized image of the true God, and the golden calf of Christianity. To serve the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob you need to reject the trinity idol.
 Quoting: Monotheism


The idea that you fetishize this God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as being the only true expression of God is ultimately just as much an idol as the trinity. That you are so hung up on this while claiming not to be a jew, but never ever saying what you are is kinda odd. Regardless, ALL conceptions fall short of God, just as he is beyond all name and form.
Monotheism  (OP)

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10/04/2016 07:03 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
It's a false, conceptualized image of the true God, and the golden calf of Christianity. To serve the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob you need to reject the trinity idol.
 Quoting: Monotheism


The idea that you fetishize this God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as being the only true expression of God is ultimately just as much an idol as the trinity. That you are so hung up on this while claiming not to be a jew, but never ever saying what you are is kinda odd. Regardless, ALL conceptions fall short of God, just as he is beyond all name and form.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72869587


What "are" you? What is your label?
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