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The Christian trinity is an idol.

 
Monotheism  (OP)

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09/25/2016 05:51 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
I believe in The One God who came to us as The Son and is always present everywhere with us as The Spirit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73063452


You God have a God. Why don't you believe in the God of your God?

Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” John 20:17

Why don't you have the same God as your God?

Last Edited by Monotheism on 09/25/2016 05:52 PM
Dumachii

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09/25/2016 05:52 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
The holy ghost is the holy spirit, god is a spirit so the holy spirit and god are the same, jesus is gods spirit in the flesh, as mediator and savior of truth for mankind
Proverbs 29:11 A fool lets fly with all his temper, but a wise person keeps it back.
Unchained

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09/25/2016 06:03 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Since we're doing simple questions, Unchained, I'll entertain the far-fetched, theoretical possibility that it's possible to get a straight answer from a simple question from a Christian.

What does this mean to you?

Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Corinthians 8:6

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:6

The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him. Acts 3:13
 Quoting: Monotheism


But, if I read without the context/knowledge of Jesus's statements and His Apostles previous statements, then I would conclude, otherwise.
I asked you about honoring or showing "great respect" for Jesus, that is due Jesus; and what the Father stated is due Jesus; what honor do you show the Father? is it the same honor that you show to Jesus?
Unchained

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09/25/2016 06:12 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Since we're doing simple questions, Unchained, I'll entertain the far-fetched, theoretical possibility that it's possible to get a straight answer from a simple question from a Christian.

What does this mean to you?

Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Corinthians 8:6

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:6

The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him. Acts 3:13
 Quoting: Monotheism


But, if I read without the context/knowledge of Jesus's statements and His Apostles previous statements, then I would conclude, otherwise.
I asked you about honoring or showing "great respect" for Jesus, that is due Jesus; and what the Father stated is due Jesus; what honor do you show the Father? is it the same honor that you show to Jesus?
 Quoting: Unchained

Wow, half my statement did not show up? Anyway, before "But", I would conclude from those verses alone, that Jesus and the Father are separate, and that Jesus was a servant.
Monotheism  (OP)

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09/25/2016 06:13 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Since we're doing simple questions, Unchained, I'll entertain the far-fetched, theoretical possibility that it's possible to get a straight answer from a simple question from a Christian.

What does this mean to you?

Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Corinthians 8:6

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:6

The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him. Acts 3:13
 Quoting: Monotheism


But, if I read without the context/knowledge of Jesus's statements and His Apostles previous statements, then I would conclude, otherwise.
I asked you about honoring or showing "great respect" for Jesus, that is due Jesus; and what the Father stated is due Jesus; what honor do you show the Father? is it the same honor that you show to Jesus?
 Quoting: Unchained


You can't honor someone by rejecting their words. Who did Jesus say true worshippers will worship, the Father or the trinity? You would conclude otherwise what? I didn't see a conclusion.
Monotheism  (OP)

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09/25/2016 06:14 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Since we're doing simple questions, Unchained, I'll entertain the far-fetched, theoretical possibility that it's possible to get a straight answer from a simple question from a Christian.

What does this mean to you?

Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Corinthians 8:6

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:6

The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him. Acts 3:13
 Quoting: Monotheism


But, if I read without the context/knowledge of Jesus's statements and His Apostles previous statements, then I would conclude, otherwise.
I asked you about honoring or showing "great respect" for Jesus, that is due Jesus; and what the Father stated is due Jesus; what honor do you show the Father? is it the same honor that you show to Jesus?
 Quoting: Unchained

Wow, half my statement did not show up? Anyway, before "But", I would conclude from those verses alone, that Jesus and the Father are separate, and that Jesus was a servant.
 Quoting: Unchained


Of course you would conclude that, because that's exactly what is communicated. YHWH's word leaves no room for any co-equals.
Monotheism  (OP)

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09/25/2016 06:19 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Since we're doing simple questions, Unchained, I'll entertain the far-fetched, theoretical possibility that it's possible to get a straight answer from a simple question from a Christian.

What does this mean to you?

Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Corinthians 8:6

And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:6

The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus, whom you delivered over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release him. Acts 3:13
 Quoting: Monotheism


But, if I read without the context/knowledge of Jesus's statements and His Apostles previous statements, then I would conclude, otherwise.
I asked you about honoring or showing "great respect" for Jesus, that is due Jesus; and what the Father stated is due Jesus; what honor do you show the Father? is it the same honor that you show to Jesus?
 Quoting: Unchained

Wow, half my statement did not show up? Anyway, before "But", I would conclude from those verses alone, that Jesus and the Father are separate, and that Jesus was a servant.
 Quoting: Unchained


Of course you would conclude that, because that's exactly what is communicated. YHWH's word leaves no room for any co-equals.
 Quoting: Monotheism


No amount of "context" can change what is explicitly communicated in these passages.
anonymous
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09/25/2016 06:23 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
The Monotheist obviously does not believe in the New Covenant of God and in particular John 14 13-14. This passage makes it pretty clear who the lord is and His Father.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2016 06:24 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
The true Trinity is the Virgin Mary, the Angel Gabriel, and baby Jesus, but of course that truth is kept hidden by the patriarchy.
Monotheism  (OP)

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09/25/2016 06:28 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
The Monotheist obviously does not believe in the New Covenant of God and in particular John 14 13-14. This passage makes it pretty clear who the lord is and His Father.
 Quoting: anonymous 71647481


Sure.

13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. John 14:13-14
Unchained

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09/25/2016 06:31 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


But, if I read without the context/knowledge of Jesus's statements and His Apostles previous statements, then I would conclude, otherwise.
I asked you about honoring or showing "great respect" for Jesus, that is due Jesus; and what the Father stated is due Jesus; what honor do you show the Father? is it the same honor that you show to Jesus?
 Quoting: Unchained

Wow, half my statement did not show up? Anyway, before "But", I would conclude from those verses alone, that Jesus and the Father are separate, and that Jesus was a servant.
 Quoting: Unchained


Of course you would conclude that, because that's exactly what is communicated. YHWH's word leaves no room for any co-equals.
 Quoting: Monotheism


No amount of "context" can change what is explicitly communicated in these passages.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Concerning context, I disagree, context is everything. The Apostles had already taught the believers the Gospel, so there wasn't any misunderstanding.
Concerning YHWH's word, we already know Jesus is the Word, as revealed in Genesis. But, we have already discussed this.

Now, can we discuss honor? Could you answer my question?
Dr VIP 1

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09/25/2016 06:35 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...

Wow, half my statement did not show up? Anyway, before "But", I would conclude from those verses alone, that Jesus and the Father are separate, and that Jesus was a servant.
 Quoting: Unchained


Of course you would conclude that, because that's exactly what is communicated. YHWH's word leaves no room for any co-equals.
 Quoting: Monotheism


No amount of "context" can change what is explicitly communicated in these passages.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Concerning context, I disagree, context is everything. The Apostles had already taught the believers the Gospel, so there wasn't any misunderstanding.
Concerning YHWH's word, we already know Jesus is the Word, as revealed in Genesis. But, we have already discussed this.

Now, can we discuss honor? Could you answer my question?
 Quoting: Unchained


if you read Johns prologue in the greek, you can see clearly that the word is not G-d.

in the beginning was the word, and the word was with T-H-E G-O-D and the word was (a) god.

there is a distinction between the god who is with the word and word that is god, clearly putting the god with the word on a higher level.
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Monotheism  (OP)

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09/25/2016 06:42 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...

Wow, half my statement did not show up? Anyway, before "But", I would conclude from those verses alone, that Jesus and the Father are separate, and that Jesus was a servant.
 Quoting: Unchained


Of course you would conclude that, because that's exactly what is communicated. YHWH's word leaves no room for any co-equals.
 Quoting: Monotheism


No amount of "context" can change what is explicitly communicated in these passages.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Concerning context, I disagree, context is everything. The Apostles had already taught the believers the Gospel, so there wasn't any misunderstanding.
Concerning YHWH's word, we already know Jesus is the Word, as revealed in Genesis. But, we have already discussed this.

Now, can we discuss honor? Could you answer my question?
 Quoting: Unchained


Don't twist my words, please. Context is everything, but no amount of "context" will nullify what it clearly communicated in those verses. To honor the representative of God is to honor God, because the representative acts in God's behalf. Speaking of context - genuine context, not ficticious "context" - here's how the passage continues.

For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. John 5:26
Unchained

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09/25/2016 06:45 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


Of course you would conclude that, because that's exactly what is communicated. YHWH's word leaves no room for any co-equals.
 Quoting: Monotheism


No amount of "context" can change what is explicitly communicated in these passages.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Concerning context, I disagree, context is everything. The Apostles had already taught the believers the Gospel, so there wasn't any misunderstanding.
Concerning YHWH's word, we already know Jesus is the Word, as revealed in Genesis. But, we have already discussed this.

Now, can we discuss honor? Could you answer my question?
 Quoting: Unchained


if you read Johns prologue in the greek, you can see clearly that the word is not G-d.

in the beginning was the word, and the word was with T-H-E G-O-D and the word was (a) god.

there is a distinction between the god who is with the word and word that is god, clearly putting the god with the word on a higher level.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1

VIP, I've never heard a scholar claim what you state. All respectable transliterations disagree.
Dr VIP 1

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09/25/2016 06:48 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


No amount of "context" can change what is explicitly communicated in these passages.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Concerning context, I disagree, context is everything. The Apostles had already taught the believers the Gospel, so there wasn't any misunderstanding.
Concerning YHWH's word, we already know Jesus is the Word, as revealed in Genesis. But, we have already discussed this.

Now, can we discuss honor? Could you answer my question?
 Quoting: Unchained


if you read Johns prologue in the greek, you can see clearly that the word is not G-d.

in the beginning was the word, and the word was with T-H-E G-O-D and the word was (a) god.

there is a distinction between the god who is with the word and word that is god, clearly putting the god with the word on a higher level.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1

VIP, I've never heard a scholar claim what you state. All respectable transliterations disagree.
 Quoting: Unchained


mmmm I have heard a unitarian on youtube make that claim.
could be wrong.
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Unchained

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09/25/2016 06:54 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


Of course you would conclude that, because that's exactly what is communicated. YHWH's word leaves no room for any co-equals.
 Quoting: Monotheism


No amount of "context" can change what is explicitly communicated in these passages.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Concerning context, I disagree, context is everything. The Apostles had already taught the believers the Gospel, so there wasn't any misunderstanding.
Concerning YHWH's word, we already know Jesus is the Word, as revealed in Genesis. But, we have already discussed this.

Now, can we discuss honor? Could you answer my question?
 Quoting: Unchained


Don't twist my words, please. Context is everything, but no amount of "context" will nullify what it clearly communicated in those verses. To honor the representative of God is to honor God, because the representative acts in God's behalf. Speaking of context - genuine context, not ficticious "context" - here's how the passage continues.

For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. John 5:26
 Quoting: Monotheism

Yes, we honor all servants of God; but, to whom is assigned equal honor with the Father? There is only the one: The Messiah. I know you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, correct? and ALL honor is equally placed upon Him as the Father. Correct?
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2016 06:56 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
That you may know that I, the LORD,
Who call you by your name,
Am the God of Israel.


I am the LORD, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me
.



Thus says the LORD,
The Holy One of Israel, and his Maker



Truly You are God, who hide Yourself,
O God of Israel, the Savior!



For thus says the LORD,
Who created the heavens,
Who is God,
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
"I am the LORD, and there is no other.
I have not spoken in secret,
In a dark place of the earth;
I did not say to the seed of Jacob,
'Seek Me in vain';
I, the LORD, speak righteousness,
I declare things that are right.



Who has declared this from ancient time?
Who has told it from that time?
Have not I, the LORD?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A just God and a Savior;
There is none besides Me.


"Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other
.

I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath
.

He shall say,
'Surely in the LORD I have righteousness and strength.
To Him men shall come,
And all shall be ashamed
Who are incensed against Him
.

In the LORD all the descendants of Israel
Shall be justified, and shall glory.'

Monotheism  (OP)

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09/25/2016 06:57 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


Of course you would conclude that, because that's exactly what is communicated. YHWH's word leaves no room for any co-equals.
 Quoting: Monotheism


No amount of "context" can change what is explicitly communicated in these passages.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Concerning context, I disagree, context is everything. The Apostles had already taught the believers the Gospel, so there wasn't any misunderstanding.
Concerning YHWH's word, we already know Jesus is the Word, as revealed in Genesis. But, we have already discussed this.

Now, can we discuss honor? Could you answer my question?
 Quoting: Unchained


if you read Johns prologue in the greek, you can see clearly that the word is not G-d.

in the beginning was the word, and the word was with T-H-E G-O-D and the word was (a) god.

there is a distinction between the god who is with the word and word that is god, clearly putting the god with the word on a higher level.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


Professional trinity apologists - being of the deceitful nature they are - would of course pounce on this argument like scavengers on a carcass, claiming the there's no indefinite article in the text, in fact, there is no indefinite article in Greek at all, when the entire point is what implied by the absence of a definite article. They use this straw-man deflection maneuver against Jehovah's Witnesses and their New World Translation.
Monotheism  (OP)

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09/25/2016 07:02 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...

Concerning context, I disagree, context is everything. The Apostles had already taught the believers the Gospel, so there wasn't any misunderstanding.
Concerning YHWH's word, we already know Jesus is the Word, as revealed in Genesis. But, we have already discussed this.

Now, can we discuss honor? Could you answer my question?
 Quoting: Unchained


if you read Johns prologue in the greek, you can see clearly that the word is not G-d.

in the beginning was the word, and the word was with T-H-E G-O-D and the word was (a) god.

there is a distinction between the god who is with the word and word that is god, clearly putting the god with the word on a higher level.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1

VIP, I've never heard a scholar claim what you state. All respectable transliterations disagree.
 Quoting: Unchained


mmmm I have heard a unitarian on youtube make that claim.
could be wrong.
 Quoting: Dr VIP 1


You're not wrong. Unchained has been listening to Christian scholars, i.e. compulsive liars. There's no definite article in the last part of John 1:1: kai theos en ho logos.

"We next notice John's use of the article in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Logos, but to the name of God he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of God refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Logos is named God.... The true God, then, is The God (ho theos)." ~ Origen

Last Edited by Monotheism on 09/25/2016 07:16 PM
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2016 07:02 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
What reward do you expect from The Holy One of Israel?
Monotheism  (OP)

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


No amount of "context" can change what is explicitly communicated in these passages.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Concerning context, I disagree, context is everything. The Apostles had already taught the believers the Gospel, so there wasn't any misunderstanding.
Concerning YHWH's word, we already know Jesus is the Word, as revealed in Genesis. But, we have already discussed this.

Now, can we discuss honor? Could you answer my question?
 Quoting: Unchained


Don't twist my words, please. Context is everything, but no amount of "context" will nullify what it clearly communicated in those verses. To honor the representative of God is to honor God, because the representative acts in God's behalf. Speaking of context - genuine context, not ficticious "context" - here's how the passage continues.

For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. John 5:26
 Quoting: Monotheism

Yes, we honor all servants of God; but, to whom is assigned equal honor with the Father? There is only the one: The Messiah. I know you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, correct? and ALL honor is equally placed upon Him as the Father. Correct?
 Quoting: Unchained


No, you're not correct. Isaiah tells us the messiah will fear God, not be God.
Monotheism  (OP)

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Here's a couple of videos explaining and expounding on the "Socinian" (human Jesus) understanding of John's prologue.


[link to m.youtube.com (secure)]

[link to m.youtube.com (secure)]

[link to m.youtube.com (secure)]

You should bookmark and watch when you get around to to it, Unchained.
Unchained

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09/25/2016 07:08 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...

Concerning context, I disagree, context is everything. The Apostles had already taught the believers the Gospel, so there wasn't any misunderstanding.
Concerning YHWH's word, we already know Jesus is the Word, as revealed in Genesis. But, we have already discussed this.

Now, can we discuss honor? Could you answer my question?
 Quoting: Unchained


Don't twist my words, please. Context is everything, but no amount of "context" will nullify what it clearly communicated in those verses. To honor the representative of God is to honor God, because the representative acts in God's behalf. Speaking of context - genuine context, not ficticious "context" - here's how the passage continues.

For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. John 5:26
 Quoting: Monotheism

Yes, we honor all servants of God; but, to whom is assigned equal honor with the Father? There is only the one: The Messiah. I know you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, correct? and ALL honor is equally placed upon Him as the Father. Correct?
 Quoting: Unchained


No, you're not correct. Isaiah tells us the messiah will fear God, not be God.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Here is the verse again:
22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
If we honor the Son any less than we honor the Father, are we truly honoring the Father?
We have already discussed "the fear of God"...it is the hatred of sin.
Monotheism  (OP)

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09/25/2016 07:15 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


Don't twist my words, please. Context is everything, but no amount of "context" will nullify what it clearly communicated in those verses. To honor the representative of God is to honor God, because the representative acts in God's behalf. Speaking of context - genuine context, not ficticious "context" - here's how the passage continues.

For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. John 5:26
 Quoting: Monotheism

Yes, we honor all servants of God; but, to whom is assigned equal honor with the Father? There is only the one: The Messiah. I know you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, correct? and ALL honor is equally placed upon Him as the Father. Correct?
 Quoting: Unchained


No, you're not correct. Isaiah tells us the messiah will fear God, not be God.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Here is the verse again:
22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
If we honor the Son any less than we honor the Father, are we truly honoring the Father?
We have already discussed "the fear of God"...it is the hatred of sin.
 Quoting: Unchained


This tiny piece of conjecture is your entire case?

"He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him."

It's about honoring God by honoring God's representative, not elevating him to godhood.
Unchained

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09/25/2016 07:22 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...

Yes, we honor all servants of God; but, to whom is assigned equal honor with the Father? There is only the one: The Messiah. I know you believe that Jesus is the Messiah, correct? and ALL honor is equally placed upon Him as the Father. Correct?
 Quoting: Unchained


No, you're not correct. Isaiah tells us the messiah will fear God, not be God.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Here is the verse again:
22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
If we honor the Son any less than we honor the Father, are we truly honoring the Father?
We have already discussed "the fear of God"...it is the hatred of sin.
 Quoting: Unchained


This tiny piece of conjecture is your entire case?

"He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him."

It's about honoring God by honoring God's representative, not elevating him to godhood.
 Quoting: Monotheism

So, according to you, a single servant of God, is granted ALL judgement but is not equal to the Father? And this servant, the Messiah, the Son, is not due equal honor as the Father? "that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father."
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2016 07:25 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

I am that bread of life.

Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.



John 6:44-65
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2016 07:27 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
seethis1
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09/25/2016 07:27 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


No, you're not correct. Isaiah tells us the messiah will fear God, not be God.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Here is the verse again:
22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
If we honor the Son any less than we honor the Father, are we truly honoring the Father?
We have already discussed "the fear of God"...it is the hatred of sin.
 Quoting: Unchained


This tiny piece of conjecture is your entire case?

"He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him."

It's about honoring God by honoring God's representative, not elevating him to godhood.
 Quoting: Monotheism

So, according to you, a single servant of God, is granted ALL judgement but is not equal to the Father? And this servant, the Messiah, the Son, is not due equal honor as the Father? "that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father."
 Quoting: Unchained


thats what the text and the context (countless warnings against idolatry, "G-d is not a man" "none besides me)

and you expect to sell your trinity based on "oh do you expect all judgement given to him and he is equal"

thats a leap of faith.

and you ignore your own words, refer you to the bold.
Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
Psalms 85:11

There is no solution to the Jewish problem.
There is no answer to the Jewish question.

Judaism is the solution, Judaism is the answer.
Monotheism  (OP)

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09/25/2016 07:32 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
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No, you're not correct. Isaiah tells us the messiah will fear God, not be God.
 Quoting: Monotheism

Here is the verse again:
22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
If we honor the Son any less than we honor the Father, are we truly honoring the Father?
We have already discussed "the fear of God"...it is the hatred of sin.
 Quoting: Unchained


This tiny piece of conjecture is your entire case?

"He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him."

It's about honoring God by honoring God's representative, not elevating him to godhood.
 Quoting: Monotheism

So, according to you, a single servant of God, is granted ALL judgement but is not equal to the Father? And this servant, the Messiah, the Son, is not due equal honor as the Father? "that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father."
 Quoting: Unchained


Why doesn't he have life in himself without having it granted? Why does he call God his and our God? Why can't he do nothing on his own? Why did he have to have authority granted to him?


Acts 17:30-31

30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2016 07:34 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
I know all about that filthy idol.
 Quoting: Monotheism


Do you call The Cross filthy?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73062730


"The crucifixion of Jesus Christ.. was an achievement that was planned before the foundation of the world."


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