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The Christian trinity is an idol.

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/26/2016 07:08 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Of course Evangelicals and Catholics drink from the same cup, AC 29338205, but the point is Evangelicals claims to be sola scriptura, whilst Catholics have no problem calling it a revealed mystery - the scriptural perspective is wasted on many of them. But what matters for most Christians is "can it be the deducted from scripture". Therefore scripture is relevant, whether you like it or not. And if you don't agree, don't participate. And if you're looking for another perspective, start another thread.

Scripture is the fixed point from which debate is conducted. For example, FOY and Dr. VIP don't consider the NT authoritative, but they have no problem using it as a fixed point for the sake of debate. And the trinity matters. You have your opinion, I know, but it matters, and there will come a time where you won't have to take my word for it.

And if I say I don't have disdain for anyone, I'd be lying.
But I don't have any disdain for any of the poster in this thread; not you, not [email protected], not Unchained, not even my annoying AC stalker. And you don't get me, my perspective or path. Not even remotely. And I don't think you're nearly as free of narrow mindedness as you think you are. Then again, I don't know you any more than you know me. Be well and may God bless you.
 Quoting: Monotheism


That's three tries and you STILL haven't even attempted to answer the main question. You were on [email protected] (rightly)for his penchant for that fake set up he does to avoid the questions you put to him, the "of course if you don't accept the NT as authoritative, then this won't make sense" bit, but you are doing just as fine a job at deflecting.

You know the trinity isn't scriptural. You know nobody can explain it because it's an artificial construction. So what's the point in continuing these endless threads on it since they are just a set up for you to bash trinitarians?

If I don't get you, it's because you don't give anything about your perspective beyond God is one. People ask you all the time and you always dance around what you believe. You refuse to elaborate. But from what I have gleaned, you had some dreams that rocked you and you study the bible.

But at the end of whatever you are seeking to do with these threads, you, like VIP and [email protected] are each in your ways proclaiming an exclusive truth which cannot be backed up with anything more than "the book says."

Beyond that supposed authority, there is nothing else to support such a claim. So when called on it, you don't respond to the charge directly, but dance around it like you have been here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


My purpose is truth, and that I believe in a day accountability. Truth doesn't need to motivate itself, it just is. And I've been given verifiable information in dreams/visions that 100% originates outside the realm of my own consciousness, and that's not the half of it. I don't believe, I know. And you won't get any details in this thread, or any open thread for that matter. Like you use to say: please don't derail my thread. My person is not the topic.
 Quoting: Monotheism


I'm not trying to get you to divulge anything personal, mono, and I'm not attacking you personally. I'm against the exclusivity claims, no matter where they come from. You don't know that Yahweh as portrayed in the bible is the only true expression of God. That's a belief. No more no less. I'm not saying your experiences don't have validity to you, but the idea that there's one way and one way only to the truth is not supported by any mystical school, and they are the same schools that while valuing scripture, do point out over and over that scripture is not the highest authority, not yours, not theirs, not anyone's. It's a starting point, not a destination. And constantly arguing that it is just such an authority is a sure sign that someone is still bobbing about on the surface.
Monotheism  (OP)

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09/26/2016 07:22 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mystical school isn't exactly a seal of quality. You don't know my path, AC, you can't have an opinion about it.
Anonymous Coward
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09/26/2016 07:27 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mystical school isn't exactly a seal of quality. You don't know my path, AC, you can't have an opinion about it.
 Quoting: Monotheism


It's not your path that I'm referring to, it's the exclusivity claim. And if you can say that about the different mystical traditions, then you show that you are bound up in dogma. I know you are a smart guy, mono, but that's just plain ignorant talk. What do you know of the mystical traditions that allows you to make such a silly statement?
Monotheism  (OP)

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09/26/2016 07:46 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mystical school isn't exactly a seal of quality. You don't know my path, AC, you can't have an opinion about it.
 Quoting: Monotheism


It's not your path that I'm referring to, it's the exclusivity claim. And if you can say that about the different mystical traditions, then you show that you are bound up in dogma. I know you are a smart guy, mono, but that's just plain ignorant talk. What do you know of the mystical traditions that allows you to make such a silly statement?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth. And I'm saying mystical school and mysticism - not the mystic experiance - isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom - it's not.

Last Edited by Monotheism on 09/26/2016 07:48 PM
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2016 01:09 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mystical school isn't exactly a seal of quality. You don't know my path, AC, you can't have an opinion about it.
 Quoting: Monotheism


It's not your path that I'm referring to, it's the exclusivity claim. And if you can say that about the different mystical traditions, then you show that you are bound up in dogma. I know you are a smart guy, mono, but that's just plain ignorant talk. What do you know of the mystical traditions that allows you to make such a silly statement?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth. And I'm saying mystical school and mysticism - not the mystic experiance - isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom - it's not.
 Quoting: Monotheism



So what is that "truth" you are speaking of? Is it connected to your statement of receiving verifiable information from dreams/visions? If so, how is that different from the mystical experience? Why is your received truth somehow a seal of quality while you dismiss traditions you display no knowledge of beyond that blanket dismissal?

And even though you keep sliding around it, you are still making an exclusive statement if you maintain that what you state about Yahweh is the sole truth. Why should you're stance be taken more substantively than, say, someone who ascribes the same truth to Krishna?
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2016 01:19 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mystical school isn't exactly a seal of quality. You don't know my path, AC, you can't have an opinion about it.
 Quoting: Monotheism


It's not your path that I'm referring to, it's the exclusivity claim. And if you can say that about the different mystical traditions, then you show that you are bound up in dogma. I know you are a smart guy, mono, but that's just plain ignorant talk. What do you know of the mystical traditions that allows you to make such a silly statement?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth. And I'm saying mystical school and mysticism - not the mystic experiance - isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom - it's not.
 Quoting: Monotheism


So if the mystical experience isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom, then what is?
The Deplorable GLP Effect

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
thisthread
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Catholic talk radio.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2016 07:31 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
bump
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2016 07:47 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth.
 Quoting: Monotheism


Jesus?
Anonymous Coward
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09/29/2016 11:18 AM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth.
 Quoting: Monotheism


Jesus?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73081366


Doesn't look like mono's talking about anything anymore in this thread. I guess it was a case of one man's truth was another man's exclusivity and dogma and he didn't have an answer for that so he bailed.
Anonymous Coward
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09/29/2016 11:54 AM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Trinity concept in Christianity is considered as a form of "shirk" (associating partners with God) by Islam. Islam instead asserts the concept of "tawheed" which means unity and singularity of God.

Muslim's opinion of the nature of God (Allah) is explained clearly in this Quranic verses from Surah Al-Ikhlas (Sincerity):

"112:1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

112:2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

112:3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

112:4 And there is none like unto Him."
Monotheism  (OP)

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth.
 Quoting: Monotheism


Jesus?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73081366


Doesn't look like mono's talking about anything anymore in this thread. I guess it was a case of one man's truth was another man's exclusivity and dogma and he didn't have an answer for that so he bailed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


I didn't bail, I had other things to do.
Monotheism  (OP)

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10/01/2016 07:23 AM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mystical school isn't exactly a seal of quality. You don't know my path, AC, you can't have an opinion about it.
 Quoting: Monotheism


It's not your path that I'm referring to, it's the exclusivity claim. And if you can say that about the different mystical traditions, then you show that you are bound up in dogma. I know you are a smart guy, mono, but that's just plain ignorant talk. What do you know of the mystical traditions that allows you to make such a silly statement?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth. And I'm saying mystical school and mysticism - not the mystic experiance - isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom - it's not.
 Quoting: Monotheism


So if the mystical experience isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom, then what is?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


You weren't talking about the mystical experience, you were talking about mystical schools.
Monotheism  (OP)

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mystical school isn't exactly a seal of quality. You don't know my path, AC, you can't have an opinion about it.
 Quoting: Monotheism


It's not your path that I'm referring to, it's the exclusivity claim. And if you can say that about the different mystical traditions, then you show that you are bound up in dogma. I know you are a smart guy, mono, but that's just plain ignorant talk. What do you know of the mystical traditions that allows you to make such a silly statement?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth. And I'm saying mystical school and mysticism - not the mystic experiance - isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom - it's not.
 Quoting: Monotheism



So what is that "truth" you are speaking of? Is it connected to your statement of receiving verifiable information from dreams/visions? If so, how is that different from the mystical experience? Why is your received truth somehow a seal of quality while you dismiss traditions you display no knowledge of beyond that blanket dismissal?

And even though you keep sliding around it, you are still making an exclusive statement if you maintain that what you state about Yahweh is the sole truth. Why should you're stance be taken more substantively than, say, someone who ascribes the same truth to Krishna?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


It doesn't differ from the mystical experience, it is the mystical experience. That's the point you're not getting.

I'll elaborate more later.
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10/01/2016 08:59 AM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
who died on the cross ?
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Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
who died on the cross ?
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 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69618840


You tell me. According to true, orthodox Christian theology nobody died. Or maybe you believ in a mortal God?
Anonymous Coward
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10/01/2016 01:22 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
You tell me. According to true, orthodox Christian theology nobody died. Or maybe you believ in a mortal God?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73065456


"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

"But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.

"The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep.

"I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.

"As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

"Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.

"No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."


Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings.

And many of them said, "He has a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to Him?"

Others said, "These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"

Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.

And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch.

Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."

Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.

"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.

"I and My Father are one."


Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.

Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"

The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."



John 10:11-33
Anonymous Coward
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10/01/2016 01:35 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


It's not your path that I'm referring to, it's the exclusivity claim. And if you can say that about the different mystical traditions, then you show that you are bound up in dogma. I know you are a smart guy, mono, but that's just plain ignorant talk. What do you know of the mystical traditions that allows you to make such a silly statement?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth. And I'm saying mystical school and mysticism - not the mystic experiance - isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom - it's not.
 Quoting: Monotheism


So if the mystical experience isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom, then what is?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


You weren't talking about the mystical experience, you were talking about mystical schools.
 Quoting: Monotheism


And the difference is? The traditions are based on the experience.
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10/01/2016 01:40 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


It's not your path that I'm referring to, it's the exclusivity claim. And if you can say that about the different mystical traditions, then you show that you are bound up in dogma. I know you are a smart guy, mono, but that's just plain ignorant talk. What do you know of the mystical traditions that allows you to make such a silly statement?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth. And I'm saying mystical school and mysticism - not the mystic experiance - isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom - it's not.
 Quoting: Monotheism



So what is that "truth" you are speaking of? Is it connected to your statement of receiving verifiable information from dreams/visions? If so, how is that different from the mystical experience? Why is your received truth somehow a seal of quality while you dismiss traditions you display no knowledge of beyond that blanket dismissal?

And even though you keep sliding around it, you are still making an exclusive statement if you maintain that what you state about Yahweh is the sole truth. Why should you're stance be taken more substantively than, say, someone who ascribes the same truth to Krishna?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


It doesn't differ from the mystical experience, it is the mystical experience. That's the point you're not getting.

I'll elaborate more later.
 Quoting: Monotheism


That isn't a point you have even touched upon, let alone explained in any substantive way.
Monotheism  (OP)

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10/01/2016 01:46 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


I'm not talking about exclusivity and dogma, I'm talking about truth. And I'm saying mystical school and mysticism - not the mystic experiance - isn't a seal of quality and inherent wisdom - it's not.
 Quoting: Monotheism



So what is that "truth" you are speaking of? Is it connected to your statement of receiving verifiable information from dreams/visions? If so, how is that different from the mystical experience? Why is your received truth somehow a seal of quality while you dismiss traditions you display no knowledge of beyond that blanket dismissal?

And even though you keep sliding around it, you are still making an exclusive statement if you maintain that what you state about Yahweh is the sole truth. Why should you're stance be taken more substantively than, say, someone who ascribes the same truth to Krishna?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


It doesn't differ from the mystical experience, it is the mystical experience. That's the point you're not getting.

I'll elaborate more later.
 Quoting: Monotheism


That isn't a point you have even touched upon, let alone explained in any substantive way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72865935


You're the one confounding the two.
Monotheism  (OP)

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
You tell me. According to true, orthodox Christian theology nobody died. Or maybe you believ in a mortal God?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73065456


"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

"But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.

"The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep.

"I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.

"As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

"Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.

"No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."


Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings.

And many of them said, "He has a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to Him?"

Others said, "These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"

Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.

And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch.

Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."

Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.

"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.

"I and My Father are one."


Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.

Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"

The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."



John 10:11-33
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56287028


How does any of that relate to my previous post?
Larry D. Croc

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10/01/2016 01:48 PM

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
It's a false, conceptualized image of the true God, and the golden calf of Christianity. To serve the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob you need to reject the trinity idol.
 Quoting: Monotheism


And just what business is this of yours? Worship what/who/how you prefer and allow others the same respect.
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Monotheism  (OP)

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
It's a false, conceptualized image of the true God, and the golden calf of Christianity. To serve the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob you need to reject the trinity idol.
 Quoting: Monotheism


And just what business is this of yours? Worship what/who/how you prefer and allow others the same respect.
 Quoting: Larry D. Croc


I'm not coercing anyone.
Sneaker

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10/01/2016 01:52 PM

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
It's a false, conceptualized image of the true God, and the golden calf of Christianity. To serve the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob you need to reject the trinity idol.
 Quoting: Monotheism


true Christians do not follow a "trinity" god.
Anonymous Coward
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10/01/2016 01:58 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...



So what is that "truth" you are speaking of? Is it connected to your statement of receiving verifiable information from dreams/visions? If so, how is that different from the mystical experience? Why is your received truth somehow a seal of quality while you dismiss traditions you display no knowledge of beyond that blanket dismissal?

And even though you keep sliding around it, you are still making an exclusive statement if you maintain that what you state about Yahweh is the sole truth. Why should you're stance be taken more substantively than, say, someone who ascribes the same truth to Krishna?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29338205


It doesn't differ from the mystical experience, it is the mystical experience. That's the point you're not getting.

I'll elaborate more later.
 Quoting: Monotheism


That isn't a point you have even touched upon, let alone explained in any substantive way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72865935


You're the one confounding the two.
 Quoting: Monotheism


I'm not confounding anything because you haven't even set forth anything. So why not skip this vague non-replies and actually reply to the questions I asked?
Monotheism  (OP)

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10/01/2016 02:08 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
...


It doesn't differ from the mystical experience, it is the mystical experience. That's the point you're not getting.

I'll elaborate more later.
 Quoting: Monotheism


That isn't a point you have even touched upon, let alone explained in any substantive way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72865935


You're the one confounding the two.
 Quoting: Monotheism


I'm not confounding anything because you haven't even set forth anything. So why not skip this vague non-replies and actually reply to the questions I asked?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72865935


Ok, then we agree, you're not confounding the two, and I'm not confounding the two - mystery schools is not the same as the mystical experience. And mystical traditions aren't exactly exempt from dogma either. I'll elaborate when my energy levels are charged.
Sneaker

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10/01/2016 02:09 PM

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
It's a false, conceptualized image of the true God, and the golden calf of Christianity. To serve the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob you need to reject the trinity idol.
 Quoting: Monotheism


true Christians do not follow a "trinity" god.
 Quoting: Sneaker


the Bible does not support the trinity.
Anonymous Coward
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10/01/2016 02:22 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mono and Sneaker are both idiots, by the will of God.

Mono has his own private interpretation of what the truth is, which he made clear in mentioning his mystical dreams and experiences, or whatever it was that was revealed to him to who knows what or who...

And Sneaker doesn't have a clue. I wouldn't be surprised if Mono created the Sneaker account just to bolster his idiotic claim.

I would say, "Read your Bible, then you would understand..." but I know that's not how it works. The natural man (mono/sneaker) receiveth NOT the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, neither CAN HE know them, for they are spiritually discerned.

Sorry, Momo and Sneaktree, it's really not your fault. Just eat, drink, and be merry......
Monotheism  (OP)

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10/01/2016 02:29 PM
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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mono and Sneaker are both idiots, by the will of God.

Mono has his own private interpretation of what the truth is, which he made clear in mentioning his mystical dreams and experiences, or whatever it was that was revealed to him to who knows what or who...

And Sneaker doesn't have a clue. I wouldn't be surprised if Mono created the Sneaker account just to bolster his idiotic claim.

I would say, "Read your Bible, then you would understand..." but I know that's not how it works. The natural man (mono/sneaker) receiveth NOT the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, neither CAN HE know them, for they are spiritually discerned.

Sorry, Momo and Sneaktree, it's really not your fault. Just eat, drink, and be merry......
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72036582


No, polytheist, my threads are purely from a scriptural perspective. I can literally disprove you in less than a minute and there nothing you can say to refute me.

Last Edited by Monotheism on 10/01/2016 02:29 PM
Sneaker

User ID: 73097920
United States
10/01/2016 02:31 PM

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Re: The Christian trinity is an idol.
Mono and Sneaker are both idiots, by the will of God.

Mono has his own private interpretation of what the truth is, which he made clear in mentioning his mystical dreams and experiences, or whatever it was that was revealed to him to who knows what or who...

And Sneaker doesn't have a clue. I wouldn't be surprised if Mono created the Sneaker account just to bolster his idiotic claim.

I would say, "Read your Bible, then you would understand..." but I know that's not how it works. The natural man (mono/sneaker) receiveth NOT the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, neither CAN HE know them, for they are spiritually discerned.

Sorry, Momo and Sneaktree, it's really not your fault. Just eat, drink, and be merry......
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72036582


i am not mono, i have studied the bible over 40 yrs. and know what it teaches, Jesus is not the almighty, he is the son of God, the holy spirit is God's active force that he uses to accomplish His will.
I do not resort to name calling. You should pray that God forgive you for your defamation.
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