If Christianity means the obsoletion law, Christianity has become a false prophet for the children of Israel.

Break the law but at least, upon your being chastised for this, have insights into the real meaning of the Law, be washed by truth, by the blood of the Great Red Dragon, which he spilled from himself, becoming devoid of truth, becoming the deceiver, bleeding himself to death. Jesus cast truth to the ground, he sent the Spirit of Truth to his brethren. Are you one of us?

E.g., what is the Sabbath, the real Sabbath?

mmm docile is not the right word... think of it this way, cinderalla (or was it snowhite?) is waking up and the critters of the forest come, clothe her, do her hair, basically are her servants.
do you believe in magic? I do.

"and you will have dominion over all the animals"

but I was asking what is the purpose of children playing with snakes.

well, animals learn through playing, so what the verse is saying, is that snakes would be in charge of educating human children.

do children like their teachers? not really... until they grow up and understand the teachers wanted the best for the children.

why do you think jesus calls the Jews (teachers of the world) vipers?
remember how I had said there is tons of kabbalah in the NT just inverted?
just showed you an example.

I'd say that you're spiritualizing the text. The text only says that the children are playing with snakes. Your spiritualization says that the snakes will teach children.

Yes, I remember. So the spiritualization of the NT is contrary to your spiritualization, because where in the OT it says that Jews are snakes? Only in your spiritualization. My honest answer.

actually I take that part literally, I actually do believe snakes in the messianic era would literally teach human babies.

but the OT is also filled with metaphors, that is unless you believe in literal beasts coming out of the sea.

the problem with the NT, is that its literal message contradicts the literal message of the OT.

there is nothing wrong with spiritualization of the text, AS LONG AS it is supported and by, and not in any way contradicting the plain simple literal meaning of the text.

I know you meant it as literal snakes teaching children. But the text says:

The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nes.

When you imagined that snakes will teach children, you did spiritualize it. You read a verse and imagined that snakes will teach children. That would only be valid if it was written like this:

The infant will play near the cobra’s den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nes and the viper will magically teach the child.

So, you just believe that they will teach children, but you can't prove it.

Took me some time to think about the NT comparison, and you're right I agree with you.

But coming to think of it, your spiritualization is backed by the snake teaching Eve in the garden, right?

Did a fish really swallowed Jonah by the way? It did, right?

yes you are right... there is nothing in the text which literally says "Teach"

but Jewish spiritualization is built upon layers of literal understanding.

it literally says the snake was in the garden and caused this whole thing.
it literally says in the messianic age snakes will "play" with children.

was the snake in the garden evil? or did G-d send the snake to teach us all something?

is satan there to be evil, or to put obstacles for us to OVERCOME (learn and be better)

and the OT text actually says that without inquiring into the deeper levels (spiritualization - but it MUST be according to the rules IE supported and not contradicted by literal layers) one has nothing to gain from the OT.

proverbs
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

if it is there in the literal layer... it is not concealed.

mmm tbh I dont know.

I THINK (pretty certain Ive read it somewhere but could be wrong) our sages say it is literal.
but regardless, there is a spiritual insight to be learned, if there isnt, it is just history, that belongs in an history book, not G-d's book to humanity.

yes.
but where does it say the snake was there teach?

oh it doesnt, but once we learn a bit, it becomes too obvious to ignore.

search out what is concealed, but dont forget the rules, it must be supported by the literal.

But if the snake isn't evil, why it was punished for doing what it was told?

it was not.

he got a reward, his pleasures are now as plentiful as the dust of the earth, and getting them is as easy as scooping dust and putting in your mouth.

also the word "cursed" is not really there, the word in Hebrew is "Arur" which is a form of a curse but it comes from the root word AUR which means light... so its a form of curse which is there to bring light.

I will curse "arur" those who curse (mekalel which is actual curse in the full literal meaning of curse) thee.
see how are cursed but what happens is that it creates a discussion in which light is being imparted.

also, you need to understand how sin economy works.
heres an example.

Jews needed to be punished, so G-d used the babylonians to punish them, were the babylonians righteous?
no... the babylonians didnt care for stuff like that, they just wanted to conquer and commit sins.
so G-d used the sin of the babylonians to punish the Jews.

the babylonians got what they deserve for being WILLFUL agents of G-d, and Jews got what they deserved through the sin of the babylonians.
and both the Jews and babylonians participated in something that helped rectify and repair them both.

That's hard to swallow.

I looked up the word in the bible and it means...curse.

This site claims to teach judaism and says that the snake was punished: [link to www.jewishpathways.com]

"The Snake

A very enigmatic figure in this story is the snake. What kind of animal is this that speaks and tempts Adam and Eve? Actually, it is hard for us to imagine the primordial snake, since part of the snake's punishment was a metamorphosis of what and who he is.

Before the sin of Adam and Eve, we find the snake described in detail in the Bible. He is depicted as "cunning," he speaks to Eve, he walks, and he even seems to have his own volition and will. After the sin, he is punished in that he will now crawl on his stomach, his food will be dirt, and there will eternal enmity between himself and man. What was the snake originally, and what did he do to deserve such a downfall?

Most kabbalistic commentators equate the snake with the Yetzer Hara -- the self-destructive tendencies to move away from God.4 What is the function of the Yetzer Hara? Why were such tendencies created? And why was a snake chosen to represent this?

The purpose of God's creating the world was to bestow goodness on mankind. The ultimate good is to not give someone a gift, but to empower him to accomplish on his own. Imagine someone training for the Olympics with his coach serving in the role of the opponent. If the coach does not oppose him with all his strength and wiles, the athlete will be upset with him. And when the student manages to overcome the coach, the coach is happy at his own downfall -- since it is his role to finally be vanquished.

The Yetzer Hara is our coach. Any rational person would desire a worthy opponent to overcome. Therefore the original snake was almost human, walking on legs, speaking intelligently, and able to present a world view alternate to God's. In that sense, the snake is the ultimate servant of God and man. He is the force which gives us the ability to choose between two worldviews -- as long as the choice is balanced and the snake is not too difficult to overcome.

When the choice was between intellectual and sensual, the snake needed to be able to tempt man with a sensual experience. However, he needed to clothe it in the guise of the rational and objective truth. Therefore the snake was almost human in his abilities.

When man failed that test, the snake himself needed to undergo a metamorphosis. He needed to become the obstacle and temptation for a different humanity, who now could be easily led astray. Therefore the intelligent rational snake becomes a dirt dwelling mute creature. All his food tastes like earth. He is down in the dirt with no ability to lift himself up, and he cannot even communicate this since he lost his speech. Why?

Originally, the fruits of the trees -- representing all levels of pleasure -- were accessible to man. There was nothing lacking, as long as the "one command" was observed. Only after the sin could man think that pleasure was to be found outside the service of God. Thus, just as the snake could not appreciate any pleasure without the dirt with it, so too man cannot appreciate the highest level of spiritual pleasure, unless he has something physical along with it.

This is our opponent, which is appropriate for the world we live in, post-sin."

I think I got it now...So the snake was "cursed" but in the end it was a good thing for the snake and the human being.

Well, I might as well throw my bible in the garbage bin, because the translations are TRASH.

Hang in there bro, I know you have a good heart.

Sorry Mono for Offtopic, I respect your threads and viewpoints and always find them interesting.

What do you mean by that?

What do you think that means?

You did not answer.

Please answer my question.

Then I would be happy to answer every question from you.

What is "J"?

Why do you ask me?

You know how I believe I am reconciled to God for my sinfulness.

So I ask again, yet another simple and honest and direct question,

once again begging you for a simple and direct and honest answer

and discussion.

Discuss...

"Monotheism",

How do you believe that you are reconciled with the Almighty Holy God of Israel YHWH for your sinfulness?

Do you keep it now?

Since when are you a sinner?!

How much painful suffering is enough and just and good for how sunful you are??

And then what, you don't sin any more???

When do you keep score????

1/3 of the Jews in Israel will die.

Yes.

So?

More than 1/3 of everyone else will die?

So?

Did you know?

What is your point?

They get theirs.

Everybody gets theirs...

Do you want yours

or

Do you want Mercy and Forgiveness?

How great art thou, o holier-than-thou one?

You big dummy...

*sigh*...

2 parts, one third remaining... 3 parts... 2/3rds 1/3rd remaining...

Do you argue just to argue to assert yourself?

"And one will say to him, 'What are these wounds between your arms?' Then he will answer, 'Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.'

"Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
Against the Man who is My Companion,"
Says the LORD of hosts.
"Strike the Shepherd,
And the sheep will be scattered;
Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.

And it shall come to pass in all the land,"
Says the LORD,
"That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:

I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, 'This is My people';
And each one will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"


Zechariah 13:6-9
NKJV

How great art thou, o magnificent you, thou judge of all mankind?