California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severely Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed

HEY YA SMELLY GREASE BALL! GET YOUR ASS BACK ACROSS THE RIO GRANDE!

I disagree. Failure of concrete because the guy who designed the original was an intern does not qualify as "nature reacting".

There is not a damn thing wrong with Oroville now, you might as well paint your walls and watch it dry for fun rather than watch Oroville, unless you want to see all the little boatie boaties go round and round.

Nope, nothing wrong here, she's ready to go.

[link to pbs.twimg.com (secure)]

As usual, you have no fucking clue what you're talking about, get your ass back over that wall...

ARE HARMONIC VIBRATIONS/TREMORS INCREASING?

[link to earthquake.usgs.gov (secure)]

See, now that is interesting and I learned something.

The spillway "gates" are actually a 2 gate system. On the lake side opening there are stacks of "five 8+ foot high plates with support beams, called "stoplogs". Those control any water getting to the lake side of the "radial gates"

They open the "stop logs" with the radial gates closed and there is no water flowing, in theory, then they control any release by opening the radial gates to generate whatever CFS they want to.

NOW you know why all these tards keep saying "the radial gates were never designed to be water proof" and say it with a straight face, they aren't lying, they very likely weren't designed to be water proof, it makes sense they wouldn't be since the friction of a water proof seal would be tremendous.

However, the stoplog gates WERE DESIGNED TO BE WATERPROOF. They have hydraulic fluid inflatable seals. If they were operating properly they would seal off the lake on the lake side of the gate system, water would drain out of the area in between the radial gates and the stoplog gates, all pressure removed from the radial gates, wait until next time.

So the sequence of operation to open from a static all closed, water sealed off with seals under hydraulic pressure condition would be:

1) release pressure on stoplog seals
2) water begins to enter area between radial gates and "stoplogs"
3) allow water to equalize pressure as much as possible. (radial gates would likely begin to leak)
4) Open stoplog gates via whatever mechanical method they use. Now full lake pressure is on the radial gates and they are exposed to the lake.
5) Open radial gates to whatever degree allowing release of water to spillway.

Reverse to close.

Makes more sense to me now, radial tinter gates are designed to open and close under extreme water flow rates. The physics of the shape actually gets help from water flowing by them to close and they have less resistance to opening than a straight gate, it's why they have been used for over a hundred years for dams and are still used today, they work.

So, when one of these DWR fuckwits says, "The radial gates were never designed to be water proof, stop being a doomtard, next question!"

Someone needs to continue with, "Yeah we know THAT, but what about the front gates (stoplogs) that WERE supposed to be waterproof and are now obviously leaking because we can SEE water coming through the radial gates that was never supposed to be there in the first place? What about those seals fuckhead?"

Murmurs spread through the crowd...DWR official pees his pants a little..

This thread is like watching a group of retards try to figure out how a washing machine works.

Patience is a virtue, I'm willing to wait for a laugh and when the water is back down to 885 I'll certainly not forget to return and say:

I TOLD YOU SO.

This thread is like watching a group of retards try to figure out how a washing machine works.

Patience is a virtue, I'm willing to wait for a laugh and when the water is back down to 885 I'll certainly not forget to return and say:

I TOLD YOU SO.

This thread is like watching a group of retards try to figure out how a washing machine works.

Patience is a virtue, I'm willing to wait for a laugh and when the water is back down to 885 I'll certainly not forget to return and say:

I TOLD YOU SO.

This thread is like watching a group of retards try to figure out how a washing machine works.

Patience is a virtue, I'm willing to wait for a laugh and when the water is back down to 885 I'll certainly not forget to return and say:

I TOLD YOU SO.

Well, after reading more in depth and doing a bit more research into this I'll admit I was wrong.

The stoplog system is not a permanent part of the operational gate system. There is no 2 stage gate system and the radial gates are the only gate between the lake the and the spillway.

From what I see now, whatever the stoplogs are, apparently large plates, they just bring them from wherever they store them and would try to drop them in place on the lake side entry way and block off inflow in the case of gate failure.

Good luck with that. Seems that no one thinks it's actually possible anyway. So in essence, they are just glorified mattresses to stuff in a hole if a leak springs.

Too bad really, I liked the 2 stage gate system I thought existed, but doesn't, a whole lot better, I do like at least some redundancy, but there is none.

So, the radial gates alone are bearing the load of several hundred tons of water pressure and that's what we got and that's all we got.

Sorry for any confusion!

Well, after reading more in depth and doing a bit more research into this I'll admit I was wrong.

The stoplog system is not a permanent part of the operational gate system. There is no 2 stage gate system and the radial gates are the only gate between the lake the and the spillway.

From what I see now, whatever the stoplogs are, apparently large plates, they just bring them from wherever they store them and would try to drop them in place on the lake side entry way and block off inflow in the case of gate failure.

Good luck with that. Seems that no one thinks it's actually possible anyway. So in essence, they are just glorified mattresses to stuff in a hole if a leak springs.

Too bad really, I liked the 2 stage gate system I thought existed, but doesn't, a whole lot better, I do like at least some redundancy, but there is none.

So, the radial gates alone are bearing the load of several hundred tons of water pressure and that's what we got and that's all we got.

Sorry for any confusion!

OROVILLE DAM OR CASCADIA SUBDUCTION ZONE?

IF CASCADIA...THEN THIS DAMN DAM WILL BE THE LEAST OF OUR WORRIES!

I've heard this repeatedly, I assume it's about the MS, but when the spillway broke up in 2017, it looked like bedrock underneath. Are you able to point me to a/the source that talks about what's really underneath?

Have you seen these? Gives a lake side view of the structure. [link to 3.bp.blogspot.com (secure)]

I do remember that video from back in 2017, but always good to refresh the memory.

Don't think I've seen that photo till just then.

Here are a few really good close ups from a contractor that did a walk through for quoting some repair work on the gates. Gives a good sense of scale.

[link to imgur.com (secure)]

Now that the first rain event is over, and the water flows into the lake are back down to just the Snow Melt levels we can calculate how much the lake went up per inch or rain hitting the watershed when the ground was dry.

Some here had previously been talking about 12' rise in the lake per inch of rain. The history of 2017 was that on SATURATED SOILS the Oroville Lake was going up 3' to 4' per inch of rain (water releases were about 5,000 cf/s until the spillway self destructed vs today's 10,000 cf/s - but that 10,000 cf/s is matching the steady snow melt).

On the DRY soil conditions based upon the rain that fell at the Dam location, which in reviewing the entire watershed appears to be about the average for the entire watershed (some small areas to the NE were double, other large areas to the east were 1/2 or less, many areas were about the same as the dam) the numbers (DRY SOIL) have worked out to 1' (one foot) per inch of rain for each 1" of rain they received from the Rain Event. (1.67' lake rise with 1.64" of rain)

Based upon Army Corp numbers of the runoff for a totally saturated soil base of 106,000 acre feet per inch of rain that means that in this instance the run off VIA DRY SOIL was only 16,000+- acre feet per inch of rain. In other words the soil, acting as a sponge, absorbed about 85% of the rain that fell.

This HUGE sponge effect will ONLY apply to the watershed when it is dry. As the watershed soil becomes wetter the sponge effect will become less.

For all but the very worst conditions then the 3' to 4' rise in the lake per inch of rain, which is what we saw in 2017 with back to back to back storms, is probably about the maximum increase per inch of rain that will be seen for Lake Oroville (the ACE numbers of 106,000 cf/s were based upon approximately 15 inches of rain falling in 72 hours onto soil that was already totally saturated).

Now that we have some solid numbers - rain vs lake rise - we can make some projections for the next rain event.

With 3 days to dry out the soil can still probably absorb 85% of the first inch of the next storm, 75% of the next couple of inches, and 60% of the next two inches - assuming all that rain comes in about a 72 hour period.

1 foot rise for the first inch of rain +-
1.65 foot rise for each inch of the next two inches of rain +-
2.65 foot rise for each inch of the next two inches of rain +-

Based upon today's current lake level of 890.95 feet that would mean that the lake should be able to handle the run off for the next 4.5" of rain, barely, but it should be able to hold it, without water going over the Emergency Spillway or the Main Spillway being used.

Of course as with all projections one needs to understand that with this case the assumptions as the soil sponge effect may be too high, or may be too low, but to me they appear to be reasonable now that we have some solid data to work with.

Well, after reading more in depth and doing a bit more research into this I'll admit I was wrong.

The stoplog system is not a permanent part of the operational gate system. There is no 2 stage gate system and the radial gates are the only gate between the lake the and the spillway.

From what I see now, whatever the stoplogs are, apparently large plates, they just bring them from wherever they store them and would try to drop them in place on the lake side entry way and block off inflow in the case of gate failure.

Good luck with that. Seems that no one thinks it's actually possible anyway. So in essence, they are just glorified mattresses to stuff in a hole if a leak springs.

Too bad really, I liked the 2 stage gate system I thought existed, but doesn't, a whole lot better, I do like at least some redundancy, but there is none.

So, the radial gates alone are bearing the load of several hundred tons of water pressure and that's what we got and that's all we got.

Sorry for any confusion!

AND GET OUT OF MY FACE YA FKN FENCE FAIRY!

there are plenty on the web... so do a search. The bedrock is broken.. leaking.. and fractured.. Bed rock does not always mean no fractures in it...

There is plenty I think in this thread too posted over time. I don't have time to do you research...

I however have a very strong source who KNOWs and had given me information. Last time I took close looks helped by that source of issues and construction features and there were design problems from the beginning.

The biggest risk is actually the DAM which has serious internal problems... There is issues with leaking at both abutments to it and across the face of the dam... These are both internal issues and pressure issues of a dam built too high...from the water itself.

First of all, I am not a fairy. Too hairy.

Second of all, I don't sit on a fence. And I would not rather go over it either, your country SUCKS, you can keep your gays.

If a 10'x10' saw 100 psi, the entire plate experiences 120,000 lbs of force.

Psi is per square inch. A plate 1 foot squared has 12 inch square.

To make it complicated, the gates experience a gradual change of force due to depth.

Just imagine how much force 300 psi is on those massive gates. All that force is placed on the bearings, axis or whatever it is called, trunnion something.

It's probably well into many millions of lbs of force.

Why worry. Just because Folsom dam had the exact same gates and one snapped apart after 40 years, and 40 percent of the reservoir drained out, and Oroville gates are over 50 years old with all kinds of cracks and corrosion just like Folsom, is no cause for concern. DWR says the gates are fine. Be happy.

It is not "several hundred tons", it is probably closer to hundreds of thousands if not millions of tons, (when totally full)

Stuff like that exists in industry on occasion.

Radial gate dimensions. 17'7" wide 33' tall

Just shy of 7,000 square inches.

If upper psi is 100 and lowest psi is 300, then use 200 psi as number.

7,000 x 200 = 1,400,000 lbs of force on one gate, estimate.