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California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed

 
Hnry Bwmn

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06/25/2019 10:16 AM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
White tanker truck supplying water for the man pressure washing the algae and dirt off SW...
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Tired of working with imbeciles and idiots!
Hnry Bwmn

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06/25/2019 10:20 AM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Too fast for ya?
I've got too much time on my hands!

Geez....I need to get a life!

5a
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Hnry Bwmn

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06/25/2019 10:25 AM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
The crane on the SW is setting up near center of bridge
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Amanda Lee

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06/25/2019 10:41 AM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
akke NYS

hate to be dense but I cant ID the water truck on any of the viws. Is it by the tent?


akfirefighter 1


the temp fix means they have lost the ability to be connected to the original water supply for keeping gates sealed


akfirefighter 1

yeah jakke


Barb Aranda

@ak in your opinion what is the water truck parked there for is it being used for the new water system? lol


akfirefighter 1

the temp pump is green with white pipes connected.runs from gate 1 to gate 8


From chat~
Hnry Bwmn

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06/25/2019 10:45 AM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Yeah, was just looking at that, looks like white pvc pipe along edge of deck, 't's by each pier, yeah looks like a small pump at west end of it.

Something wrong with normal seal pump(s)?
Retired Union Millwright.
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Amanda Lee

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06/25/2019 10:59 AM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
[link to oroville.lakesonline.com]

895.95
Feet MSL

Tuesday, June 25, 2019
6:00:00 AM
Level is 4.05 feet
below full pool of 900.00
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2019 01:04 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Those pics show the steel "I" beams being added under the road way.

The taller chain link fence removed along the bridge.

The other day Claus had pics of screw jack posts being flown by crane. 3 pics, not sure if they were coming in or going out. Have they been removed? Or did they add more? No way to tell the sequence on those pics, whether the load of jacks was coming in or going out.

Are they building scaffold under the east end of bridge, perhaps to work on repair of the 'spalling' horizontal area that the east end of bridge rests on?

Could they have jacked up the east half of the bridge enough to get the road off the busted up area?

That would explain the road gap and the height difference!

Waiting for daylight to see if the racks of scaffold are disappearing, being used under the road to build a platform to work on the spalling.......
 Quoting: Hnry Bwmn


At least 3 were removed recently.
[link to pbs.twimg.com (secure)]

They just happen to be under the side that had the leak issue. Did one thing lead to another? Hard to say for sure, but usually when you work on something and then something goes wrong right around that area? it's usually related to the work you just did.

IMO the whole concrete Monolith that is the "Gate house" isn't going to flex a whole lot in and of itself. It will move as a whole unit, if it's going to move or shift at all.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Crane action......
Hnry Bwmn

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06/25/2019 01:17 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
The roadway, bridge, isn't attached to the rest of the structure.

It can't be, it's length will change with temperature, time of day and amount of sunlight and time of year.

All of these variables will change the length of the road over gates.

It simply rests upon the spalled area and similar at west end too. And of course each pier.
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Hnry Bwmn

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06/25/2019 01:18 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Dangit. Can't find my copy of Dune!
Retired Union Millwright.
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Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2019 01:43 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
The roadway, bridge, isn't attached to the rest of the structure.

It can't be, it's length will change with temperature, time of day and amount of sunlight and time of year.

All of these variables will change the length of the road over gates.

It simply rests upon the spalled area and similar at west end too. And of course each pier.
 Quoting: Hnry Bwmn


Sure, all the "decks" including the road base likely are. It's easy to see the "lift motor" deck is sitting on I beams.

Concrete doesn't move a whole lot from thermal expansion. I think it's somewhere around a half inch per 100 ft at 100 degrees change, bout that anyway, seem to remember that as a general rule of thumb, not sure, but as far as building materials go, it's pretty stable.
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2019 01:44 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Dangit. Can't find my copy of Dune!
 Quoting: Hnry Bwmn


THE SPICE MUST FLOW!!! HE WHO CONTROLS THE SPICE, CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE!!
Crunch62

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06/25/2019 02:15 PM

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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
At least 3 were removed recently.
[link to pbs.twimg.com (secure)]

They just happen to be under the side that had the leak issue. Did one thing lead to another? Hard to say for sure, but usually when you work on something and then something goes wrong right around that area? it's usually related to the work you just did.

IMO the whole concrete Monolith that is the "Gate house" isn't going to flex a whole lot in and of itself. It will move as a whole unit, if it's going to move or shift at all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77517484


Except it isn't a monolith. Poured in sections using the minimal reinforcement methods of the time.


I can envision it flexing side to side as the substrate settles. We have seen that in the inspection reports, where the stainless steel wear bars on one side of a gate show no wear, but the opposite side has huge gouges.
What the Hell?...
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2019 03:53 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
At least 3 were removed recently.
[link to pbs.twimg.com (secure)]

They just happen to be under the side that had the leak issue. Did one thing lead to another? Hard to say for sure, but usually when you work on something and then something goes wrong right around that area? it's usually related to the work you just did.

IMO the whole concrete Monolith that is the "Gate house" isn't going to flex a whole lot in and of itself. It will move as a whole unit, if it's going to move or shift at all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77517484


Except it isn't a monolith. Poured in sections using the minimal reinforcement methods of the time.


I can envision it flexing side to side as the substrate settles. We have seen that in the inspection reports, where the stainless steel wear bars on one side of a gate show no wear, but the opposite side has huge gouges.
 Quoting: Crunch62


Supposed to be as far as I know. Sure it's going to be poured in sections, just because of the size, but I am under the impression that it's more or less a solid structure with rebar sets running all the way through and not just sections pinned together.

See if I can find anything that shows more of the construction methods used.
Amanda Lee

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06/25/2019 04:07 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
From chat~ Great point


The Oro Deep Throat

We are not in the flood-gambling business... So first principle of Civil Law is that risks may be imposed on people if and only if it is reasonable to assume they have consented to accept those risks.



The Oro Deep Throat


So far Oro dam been stressed to MAXIMUM design pressure for 12 weeks, i.e. 2 more weeks than in 2017. By mid-August Oro dam would have been exposed to 20 weeks MAXIMUM design pressure, twice than 2017


…………………….


Crazy
Crunch62

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06/25/2019 04:44 PM

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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
From chat~ Great point


The Oro Deep Throat

We are not in the flood-gambling business... So first principle of Civil Law is that risks may be imposed on people if and only if it is reasonable to assume they have consented to accept those risks.



The Oro Deep Throat


So far Oro dam been stressed to MAXIMUM design pressure for 12 weeks, i.e. 2 more weeks than in 2017. By mid-August Oro dam would have been exposed to 20 weeks MAXIMUM design pressure, twice than 2017


…………………….


Crazy
 Quoting: Amanda Lee


And it is a 50-year old earth fill dam that has been exposed to numerous drought-then-flood conditions numerous times over the decades.

That equates to extreme stress.

I have lived downstream for over 33 years and have witnessed that cycle many times. The fill drying out over 2-3 years of drought, then getting hit with 150K inflows the next Jan-Feb-March.

I believe that dam has reached the end of it's useful (safe) lifespan.
What the Hell?...
Crunch62

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06/25/2019 04:54 PM

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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
So, for 11 hours, the inflow has exceeded the outflow, but the elevation hasn't changed?

Must be Common Core Math.

Or complete BS.
What the Hell?...
Amanda Lee

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06/25/2019 05:55 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
So, for 11 hours, the inflow has exceeded the outflow, but the elevation hasn't changed?

Must be Common Core Math.

Or complete BS.
 Quoting: Crunch62


Interesting observation to me~

[link to twitter.com (secure)]



Claus Drastrup


More
Replying to @weiryone
Question is, when looking at lower cam, no visible flow in river, right side = no flow from hpp. Where do all the inflow go????
[link to www.parks.ca.gov] …


@weiryone
‏
More
Replying to @ClausDrastrup1
Could they be raising the diversion pool level?


?????
TheRescueOfTheBride

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06/25/2019 05:56 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
So, for 11 hours, the inflow has exceeded the outflow, but the elevation hasn't changed?

Must be Common Core Math.

Or complete BS.
 Quoting: Crunch62


Here is the math on how much the lake level reported elevation SHOULD HAVE RISEN in 11 hours.

4649 CFS AVG INFLOW
4012 CFS AVG OUTFLOW

637 CFS DIFFERENCE

SECONDS IN ONE DAY = 60 x 60 x 24

LAKE SURFACE AREA = 25 SQUARE MILES

FRACTION OF DAY = 11/24

(637 x 60 x 60 x 24) / ((5 x 5280) x (5 x 5280)) x 11/24 = 0.036 feet

The reported lake level has been stuck on 895.95 for 11 hours.

The actual lake level should be 895.95 + 0.036 = 895.986

Last Edited by TheRescueOfTheBride on 06/25/2019 06:08 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
So, for 11 hours, the inflow has exceeded the outflow, but the elevation hasn't changed?

Must be Common Core Math.

Or complete BS.
 Quoting: Crunch62


Maybe...or the difference is your leakage/piping figure.
Crunch62

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06/25/2019 06:46 PM

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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Seems to be pretty good flood coming from the gate area right now on the top cam.

Whitecapping off the left spillway wall by the upper sandworm.

Last Edited by Crunch62 on 06/25/2019 06:54 PM
What the Hell?...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Yeah, was just looking at that, looks like white pvc pipe along edge of deck, 't's by each pier, yeah looks like a small pump at west end of it.

Something wrong with normal seal pump(s)?
 Quoting: Hnry Bwmn


Likely

Dam is 51 years old and electromechanical equipment needs replaced between 40-60 years.

Hydromechanical every 30-50 years.

I imagine it's like anything else old. Replace one thing and the new part pushes another component to fail.

Who wants to wager a new pump would blow a seal somewhere?
Crunch62

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06/25/2019 07:03 PM

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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Spray shooting off the line of safety pylons.
What the Hell?...
Grumpy
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06/25/2019 07:06 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
At the 0.035 scale....noise. The level is not easy to precisely measure and you forgot about evaporation. Still, it is clear to me the main spillway is “out of the action “. Whatever the reason, which they have not told us, might be. No sane engineer, given the option, would keep the lake so high. With Hyatt looking so iffy, it is not clear to me how they can take the level way down, like they need to, before next spring.
Crunch62

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06/25/2019 07:12 PM

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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Whitecapping out of the gatehouse now. Maybe gates 3 and 4?

[link to www.parks.ca.gov]

Last Edited by Crunch62 on 06/25/2019 07:14 PM
What the Hell?...
Prayandprepare000

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06/25/2019 07:26 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Whitecapping out of the gatehouse now. Maybe gates 3 and 4?

[link to www.parks.ca.gov]
 Quoting: Crunch62


Wow, it's really leaking. Any guesses how many cfs the leakage is?
Crunch62

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06/25/2019 07:38 PM

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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Whitecapping out of the gatehouse now. Maybe gates 3 and 4?

[link to www.parks.ca.gov]
 Quoting: Crunch62


Wow, it's really leaking. Any guesses how many cfs the leakage is?
 Quoting: Prayandprepare000


I have no idea, but its making a pond around those toolboxes by the upper sandworm.
What the Hell?...
Crunch62

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06/25/2019 07:43 PM

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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Just looked at the lower cam, lots of water going down that side, and quite a little waterfall going into the river.

From the bottom cam, extreme right side of the spillway, under the road or whatever it is, a whitewater 3-tiered waterfall.

The whitewater is almost the same color as the rocks.


IMAGE ( [link to i.imgur.com (secure)] )


Last Edited by Crunch62 on 06/25/2019 08:37 PM
What the Hell?...
Grumpy
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
So, why can I find no reports, from anywhere along the shore, “well here is the stick I stuck in yesterday. Looks like X number of inches one way or the other.
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2019 08:54 PM
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Re: California's Lake Oroville Main Spillway Severly Damaged/Eroded. Oroville Dam's Recently Reconstructed Main Spillway Fundamentally Flawed
Whitecapping out of the gatehouse now. Maybe gates 3 and 4?

[link to www.parks.ca.gov]
 Quoting: Crunch62


Wow, it's really leaking. Any guesses how many cfs the leakage is?
 Quoting: Prayandprepare000


If I was to guess? I'd say the leaks are at least 60 GPM, so 3600 GPH. That would be about 460 CF per hour or 7.6 CFM.

That's probably low, but you could scale up from there if anyone thinks it's higher. 7.8 gallons per CF of water.

Gives you an idea of just how massive the flow of any spillway or how massive the inflow and outflow numbers can be.

Say even just 1,000 CFS, that's:
7,800 Gallons per second
468000 Gallons per minute
28,080,000 Gallons per hour.

A hundred million gallons per hour is nothing for these things.

If I could sell that water in a supermarket for $1.00 a gallon and 75 cents a gallon was my cost for bottling, processing, shipping etc? I'd be making 25 million dollars, an hour, in my pocket. Not a bad hourly rate.

I'd only work for like a week or 2, then retire!!!