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The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War

 
Anonymous Coward
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04/07/2017 05:14 PM
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The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Forget MAD, the name of the game is now controlled escalatory steps. The theory is that a nuclear war won't be unleashed in one insane world-ending spasm, but take the form of proportional exhanges until one side has had enough and concedes the field. Such a nuclear war could go on for weeks, even months, as both sides take stock of their losses and plan their next step. That's the theory, anyway.

One scenario I've seen wargammed goes like this;

After a period of increasing tensions, Russia recognizes that war is inevitable, and seeks to get the first punch in. It will be a limited exhange designed to give Russia the maximum advantage in future exhanges.

A single Delta III submarine in the Artic Ocean launches 16 ballistic missiles. 14 are aimed at North America, 2 at Britain. Each missile releases 3 nuclear warheads with a yield of 500 kilotons. The targets are America's 2 ballistic missile submarine bases, one on each coast, as well as 3 airbases home to America's strategic bomber force. The 6 warheads streaking down on Scotland are aimed at the UK's deterrent force.

48 nuclear warheads detonate in the sky above their targets; this maximises overpressure and minimises radioactive fallout. This will be a "clean" strike. In one fell swoop, America loses 1/3 if its strategic submarine force, those at pier and in overhaul, and virtually all of its strategic bombers. 120,000 Americans are killed instantly, at least that number again are terribly injured. British dead number about 10,000, and they have lost 3 of their 4 missile submarines.

Russia knows America will retaliate, and they count on it being a retaliation in kind. Already they have exacuated their bomber bases, and flushed their submarines into deep water. When the American warheads fall they will do little strategic damage. The ICBM silos of both sides will remain untouched.

This is day 1. It will only get worse.
Anonymous Coward
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04/07/2017 05:25 PM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
The paradigm of escalate to deescalate is a dangerous one if used by both sides.
Anonymous Coward
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04/07/2017 05:25 PM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
very very likely scenario
Anonymous Coward
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04/07/2017 05:26 PM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Oh now that's just fucked up.
Anonymous Coward
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04/07/2017 05:28 PM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
hiding
Anonymous Coward
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04/07/2017 05:28 PM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
It's been said that any use of nuclear devices make an escalation to all out nuclear war inevitable.

But yeah,the days of MAD are done.
NervousAndJerky

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04/07/2017 05:30 PM

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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
What's really phucked up is the US abandoned there fall out shelter program in the sixties. Now that's phucked up.

Last Edited by NervousAndJerky on 04/07/2017 05:31 PM
Perspective is everything.

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Bud Fox

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04/07/2017 06:01 PM

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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Do the Russians even believe in MAD?

In my PDF library I have a famous nuclear war preparation manual from the 70's or 80's - I think it was Nuclear War Survival Skills. Anyway, the author provided a compelling argument how MAD was a western-only mindset, and that the Russians always thought they could win a nuclear war if given enough tactical advantage (with acceptable losses). Thankfully they never got that advantage (like in Alas Babylon)
Blue Horseshoe loves GLP
Anonymous Coward
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04/07/2017 11:43 PM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Do the Russians even believe in MAD?

In my PDF library I have a famous nuclear war preparation manual from the 70's or 80's - I think it was Nuclear War Survival Skills. Anyway, the author provided a compelling argument how MAD was a western-only mindset, and that the Russians always thought they could win a nuclear war if given enough tactical advantage (with acceptable losses). Thankfully they never got that advantage (like in Alas Babylon)
 Quoting: Bud Fox


Russian strategy usually calls for "demonstration" nuclear strikes. That is, a handful to a few dozen warheads hitting a small number of airbases, or ports, or army formations in the field. They are designed to shock the enemy into halting its advances. The above is an example of such a strike.

Other examples I have seen wargammed include hitting the major bridges over the Vistula River, including in Warsaw, and striking North Sea German and Dutch ports.
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 04:47 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
It could happen tonight.
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 04:58 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
It could happen tonight.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74634976


Nothing happens on a Saturday...
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 05:11 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Not possible..Russians have automatic system..if they detect one attack it sends all they got.
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 05:44 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Not possible..Russians have automatic system..if they detect one attack it sends all they got.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74636590



You've never heard of an "off" switch ....LOL

.
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 05:45 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Not possible..Russians have automatic system..if they detect one attack it sends all they got.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74636590


You're talking about the "dead hand". That only comes into play if the leadership in Moscow is taken out by a surprise strike.
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 05:49 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
The theory is that a nuclear war won't be unleashed in one insane world-ending spasm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74589465


That is utter nonsense.
If other countries had Nukes during Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
There would be no world left.
Russia almost had them but not quite they had a shit load else to deal with at the time.
The first nuke released in Anger will be a sudden full release from every Nation that has them.
It will not be piece by piece it will be all out.
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 06:01 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Nuclear war based on "theory" is madness indeed.
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 08:36 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
It may start like that, but it will end with us all dead.
JWP

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04/08/2017 09:15 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
[link to i.imgur.com]
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 09:20 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Then America pulls out the secret locations of all members of the Russian government, wipes them out via a secret weapon in orbit while simultaneously redirecting all Russian warheads toward China and NK and launching them.

:and so it ends:
 Quoting: Chip


drevil
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 09:28 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Its launch on detection.....no one is waiting for a nuke to detonate on target before getting theirs out of the silos....

With the lethality of nukes, there is always fear of a decapitation strike where the chain of command is severed....so a smooth escalation is unlikely.....its use it or lose it....
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 09:30 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Its launch on detection.....no one is waiting for a nuke to detonate on target before getting theirs out of the silos....

With the lethality of nukes, there is always fear of a decapitation strike where the chain of command is severed....so a smooth escalation is unlikely.....its use it or lose it....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4952032


OP said they wouldn't target each other's silos, just the soft targets.
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 09:40 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Its launch on detection.....no one is waiting for a nuke to detonate on target before getting theirs out of the silos....

With the lethality of nukes, there is always fear of a decapitation strike where the chain of command is severed....so a smooth escalation is unlikely.....its use it or lose it....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4952032


OP said they wouldn't target each other's silos, just the soft targets.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74637164


Soft targets are cities....hard targets are silos.....a strike will always be hard targets.....you want to take away the opponent's means of retaliation.....soft targets mean killing civilians wholesale....

In the world's eyes, attacking soft targets would make the attacker pariahs....

The trend been moving away from megatonnage munitions and more towards lower yield but highly accurate warheads to take out silos....the city killer sized warheads like the Russia's "satan" been phased out....
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
04/08/2017 10:01 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Its launch on detection.....no one is waiting for a nuke to detonate on target before getting theirs out of the silos....

With the lethality of nukes, there is always fear of a decapitation strike where the chain of command is severed....so a smooth escalation is unlikely.....its use it or lose it....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4952032


OP said they wouldn't target each other's silos, just the soft targets.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74637164


Soft targets are cities....hard targets are silos.....a strike will always be hard targets.....you want to take away the opponent's means of retaliation.....soft targets mean killing civilians wholesale....

In the world's eyes, attacking soft targets would make the attacker pariahs....

The trend been moving away from megatonnage munitions and more towards lower yield but highly accurate warheads to take out silos....the city killer sized warheads like the Russia's "satan" been phased out....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4952032


Airfields and piers are soft targets.
Anonymous Coward
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04/08/2017 10:21 AM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Do the Russians even believe in MAD?

In my PDF library I have a famous nuclear war preparation manual from the 70's or 80's - I think it was Nuclear War Survival Skills. Anyway, the author provided a compelling argument how MAD was a western-only mindset, and that the Russians always thought they could win a nuclear war if given enough tactical advantage (with acceptable losses). Thankfully they never got that advantage (like in Alas Babylon)
 Quoting: Bud Fox


Russian strategy usually calls for "demonstration" nuclear strikes. That is, a handful to a few dozen warheads hitting a small number of airbases, or ports, or army formations in the field. They are designed to shock the enemy into halting its advances. The above is an example of such a strike.

Other examples I have seen wargammed include hitting the major bridges over the Vistula River, including in Warsaw, and striking North Sea German and Dutch ports.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74634976


it's mainly to stop the soldiers advance by irradiating the river with nuclear fallout.
Anonymous Coward
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06/09/2023 03:27 PM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
DID THIS JUST HAPPEN

See: thread someplace about shockwave from space— ???

Would it be this?
Anonymous Coward
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06/09/2023 03:31 PM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Sounds like a typical Putinsucker fantasy. The reality of limited nuclear war would be one side using nukes to bully non-nuclear states, and counting on their allies to decide it's not worth the risk of getting involved. For example Russia might decide to nuke massed Ukrainian forces, gambling on NATO being too scared to escalate.
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2023 09:45 PM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
Oh crap
PEACE_IN_UKRAINE

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07/14/2023 10:14 PM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
We can talk about all kinds of scenarios. And should do this.

However, please do not miss the obvious.

THERE HAVE BEEN NO PEACE NEGOTIATIONS!!

At least meaningful.

When the Delegation of African Leaders came to Moscow, Putin showed them a signed peace deal. This was signed by the negotiators in Ukraine. However, a week later they withdrew signature on pressure from the West. This was just before the actual war began. Russia knew that the peace route would not work and there were 48 BioWeapons labs doing active research. They later found weasponzed Bird Flu H5N1.

Take a look at who owns the natural resources in Ukraine? Who owns the fertile black soil of 17 million hectares. Who owns the central bank of Ukraine?

Not the Ukrainian government!!

Who was shelling the Slavic people of Donesk since 2014? This this was the Ukraine government. Who forced land owners and farmers to sell their land for pennies on the dollar? Yes this was the Ukrainian government. If they did not sell, they had to go to jail or join the Ukrainian army. How about that for a choice?

It became a puppet government after the US paid $5 billion to finance the covert political takeover.

If you want to know how this works read the book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman".

Please call you congress members and senators and push for peace talks. Fast and pray all false flag plans are exposed.

Not one drop of American blood should be lost without meaningful PEACE TALKS.
PEACE_IN_UKRAINE
Anonymous Coward
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07/18/2023 04:27 PM
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Re: The Opening Salvo of a Limited Nuclear War
bump





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