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"Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"

 
IT'S A ROUT
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03/11/2007 06:59 PM
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"Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
"Over the past generation, banks and credit card companies have made trillions of dollars of high-interest, unsecured debt available, and Americans have scooped it up," Scurlock writes. "Our incomes have risen an average of 1 percent in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000 percent. ...


[link to www.sfgate.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 07:04 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
mr one-star vote, me and YOU both ARE GETTING CREAMED


hahahahaha, fool, in the same time CEO pay has gone from 10X workers' income to 430X workers income


you must be one of these guys who likes it up your butt hole, correct? did you even read the story? i posted it before it read more than one paragraph and i was STILL reading it when you voted. you're entitled to your vote. but i wonder if you read it. maybe you're a speed reader? in one ear and out the other. that would be pretty quick.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 07:06 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
cnn conversation yesterday: credit card companies make 70% of their revenues from interest charges and penalties

they make 70% of their revenue from YOUR MISERY
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 07:10 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
they've routed you while you weren't looking. waiting for the MSM to tell you what was happening and what to do, uh? maybe you were waiting for your politician - the one who's probably on his yacht right now?

IT'S A FUCKING ROUT. WE GOT CREAMED. BY PRE-DA-TORS.

MEAT-EAT-ERS.


Scurlock's provocative and engaging book, "Maxed Out: Hard Times, Easy Credit and the Era of Predatory Lenders," is a cautionary tale about Americans reeling from too much credit, egged on by greedy companies trying to reap the rewards of astronomically high interest rates. Debt is driving people crazy, wrecking families and in some cases, proving genuinely fatal, he argues. It is also endangering our most fragile socioeconomic layer, the American middle class.

"Over the past generation, banks and credit card companies have made trillions of dollars of high-interest, unsecured debt available, and Americans have scooped it up," Scurlock writes.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 07:20 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
this is the equivalent of those ruined during the 1929 crash jumping out of windows. WE'RE BEING ROUTED!


poor, poor people. all this over money, which is thrown around like candy in the upper limits, with CEOs making millions per month, shopping for $100 million homes, and lamenting the shortage of new ferraris; with rap stars flying in chefs to wales from new york for 3 days; with $137,000 hotel packages; with $2,000+ bottles of crystal in restaurants. yet, our politicians whine about raising the minimum wage to $10 per hour while voting themselves 25% raises every few years. their pensions are secure. is yours?; they pledged to wipe out child poverty 20 years ago but it's gotten worse - though they have wiped out the middle class

But the tales Scurlock shares are heart-wrenching: There's the story of Yvonne Pavey, a grandmother in New Albany, Ind., who just vanished one day. Her family later discovered that she had a gambling addiction and tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt. Her body was found in a nearby river.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 07:25 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
Her family later discovered that she had a gambling addiction and tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt. Her body was found in a nearby river.


last time i had a credit card, they phoned me up and told me they didn't like how i was spending the credit - at bars. why didn't anyone phone her or cut her off. i'm sure she was drawing at the casinos.

another time my brother and i applied for cards at the same time (and lived together then). he had better credit than me. they phoned him up offering him a card. since i wanted one too, i phoned them after this and asked them why i hadn't been offered one (while not telling them about my brother)

they told me: "we don't offer the credit card in your area, sir"

LIARS
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 137330
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03/11/2007 07:37 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
another time my brother and i applied for cards at the same time (and lived together then). he had better credit than me. they phoned him up offering him a card. since i wanted one too, i phoned them after this and asked them why i hadn't been offered one (while not telling them about my brother)

LIARS


--that was MNBA bank, btw. we applied at a buffalo bills game
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 07:38 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
oops.............

another time my brother and i applied for cards at the same time (and lived together then). he had better credit than me. they phoned him up offering him a card. since i wanted one too, i phoned them after this and asked them why i hadn't been offered one (while not telling them about my brother)

they told me: "we don't offer the credit card in your area, sir"

LIARS


---MNBA bank 'offer' - at a buffalo bills' game
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 07:48 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
documentary:

The Money Trap - How the banks lure you into debt (2006)
[link to www.jonhs.net]


"Panorama has fresh revelations about the lending practices of the high street banks. An insider reveals an industry driven by ambitious targets to sell borrowing to customers."

official site: bbc.co.uk


R-O-U-T. ROUT. ROUTED. ROOTED. FUCKED UP THE ASS.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 07:50 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
old joke to the banker, insurance agent after they quote you a rate:

customer: aren't you gonna kiss me?

peddler: (shocked) what do you mean?

customer: well, usually i get a kiss before i get fucked
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 07:59 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
The most carnivorous fish in the movie’s net are the young hotshots at a collection agency who gleefully describe pressuring debtors to pay up by threatening to alert their neighbors and relatives and to publish their names in the newspaper.


---with me they phoned me up and told me they were from the ministry of the attorney general (SERIOUS LIEING!!!)


Attorney General - Features: How May We Help You, News Releases, Reports & Resources, Native Affairs, What's New, Legislation, Questions, Quick Reference, Most Popular Links, Contact Info. *****Located in Toronto, ON.****



-collection agency that called me - head office - pennsylvania - NCO FINANCIAL


NCO Financial Systems, Inc.
507 Prudential Road
Horsham, PA 19044

your agent phoned me up and said 'this is the ministry of the attorney general'


---they PHONED ME FOR FOUR YEARS OVER A $100 DEBT. LIEING TO ME. THREATENING TO 'PROCESS ME" - OVER A CHARGE I DIDN'T COMMIT
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 08:05 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
The most carnivorous fish in the movie’s net are the young hotshots at a collection agency who gleefully describe pressuring debtors to pay up by threatening to alert their neighbors and relatives and to publish their names in the newspaper.

-----------------------------------------

guess what, the tactic works: i once had a squabble with a bank and they were giving me the run around over some info i wanted. 'yeah, yeah' we'll give it to you' they told me. 'yeah, yeah, we'll email it to you' they said. TWO YEARS LATER no info. so one day i phoned up the bank and told them i was gonna put on my hugo boss suit, pin a stupid little name tag like their tellers have on my jacket lapel, and hand out copies of newspaper reports of their fraudulent role in the enron fraud to passers-by in front of their downtown headquarters. they next week i had a nice letter asking how they could help
Anonymous Coward
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03/11/2007 09:55 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
Banks are scum but no one MADE the average citizen live beyond their means, now did they?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 10:20 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
The movie is hostile to President Bush, who is shown urging Americans in the wake of Sept. 11 to do their patriotic duty and spend. Later it is suggested that a law signed by Mr. Bush in 2005 making it more difficult for Americans to apply for bankruptcy was written by MBNA, one of the largest credit companies in the country and a major Bush campaign contributor. Similarly provocative tidbits are scattered throughout the movie, but they remain disconnected.


-------------------------------

ironic. this was the credit card company who lied to me on the phone. i'd reversed the letters in my posts above

everybody lies to me. just like the collection agency who told me they were from the government ministry to try to intimidate me.

or the bank who said they'd email me the important info but never did - td canada trust. or the other bank before that who, while waiting for a check to clear so that i could pay my late fees to their credit arm, promised they wouldn't seize the money (they said 'once 90 days passes it's out of our hands anyway' - canadian imperial bank of commerce - but snagged the money anyway, eventhough my account had gone to an agency)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/11/2007 10:29 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
Banks are scum but no one MADE the average citizen live beyond their means, now did they?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 202026



YES they did - those who are living on credit cards because their salaries or lack of employment doesn't cover the bills. anyway, why shouldn't THE LOWEST PAID worker in our society be able to comfortably be able to afford a house and a vacation once a year or every two years with the kids? in a land with some houses selling for over $100 million now, and average CEO pay of $9 million per year, it's the least the LOWEST PAID worker should expect from his labors. you only live once and it's a short life. we set up this consumer's system.

plus, your argument falls apart - 2/3 of the econmy is consumer driven so to ask them not to spend is asking to tank the economy. on the one hand you criticize them for spending, but on the other the economy would collapse if they didn't. plus there's the hard sell in media. you think those ads on tv are cheap? obviously the companies need to sell to run those ads. your scenario of not spending doesn't work economically. i know you said to live in their means, but we're all expected to buy a new car every 5 years and take a vacation every year and buy lots of stuff at Christmas etc.
Anonymous Coward
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03/11/2007 10:33 PM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
Supply and demand? There's a lot more people and a lot less land. Naturally the fewer spots will go to those who are willing to pay more.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/12/2007 08:04 AM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
The most carnivorous fish in the movie’s net are the young hotshots at a collection agency who gleefully describe pressuring debtors to pay up by threatening to alert their neighbors and relatives and to publish their names in the newspaper.


---with me they phoned me up and told me they were from the ministry of the attorney general (SERIOUS LIEING!!!)


Attorney General - Features: How May We Help You, News Releases, Reports & Resources, Native Affairs, What's New, Legislation, Questions, Quick Reference, Most Popular Links, Contact Info. *****Located in Toronto, ON.****



-collection agency that called me - head office - pennsylvania - NCO FINANCIAL


NCO Financial Systems, Inc.
507 Prudential Road
Horsham, PA 19044

your agent phoned me up and said 'this is the ministry of the attorney general'


---they PHONED ME FOR FOUR YEARS OVER A $100 DEBT. LIEING TO ME. THREATENING TO 'PROCESS ME" - OVER A CHARGE I DIDN'T COMMIT
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 137330





sound familiar? this company also may be misrepresenting things. how do these companies get away with lies and intimidation???? lookalike tickets, claiming the bill's for the city when its from a private company, even 17 years later. in my case they went a step further and actually said they were from the government



By CHRIS DOUCETTE, SUN MEDIA




Brampton senior Herbert Gallo says he has no intention of paying a collection agency $42.50 for a 17-year-old ticket. (Stan Behal/Sun Media)

BRAMPTON -- Herb Gallo knows he had a more hair and a slimmer waistline way back in 1990, but remembering exactly where and when he parked 17 years ago is a little trickier.

Unfortunately for the 69-year-old Brampton man, there's a collection agency out there that never forgets such things.

"I was opening my mail on Thursday and I said to myself, "What the heck is this?"" Gallo told the Sun, referring to a notice he received last week that claimed he had an outstanding fine for a ticket in the City of Toronto.

"Then I looked at the date and I couldn't believe it," he added.

The letter was from Canadian Bonded Credits Limited and it claimed Gallo owed its client, the City of Toronto, $42.50 for an unpaid ticket he received on Nov. 15, 1990.



"I thought for sure it must be some sort of mistake," Gallo said, explaining he had not heard anything about the unpaid fine in the 17 years before receiving the notice.

Gallo immediately got on the phone to CBCL, hoping to straighten things out.

"But they treated me like a criminal," he said.

Gallo said the person he dealt with accused him of not paying his bills and refused to provide any details about the ticket other than that it was for a parking infraction.

He claims he was told to go through the courts if he wanted to know when, where, and why he was issued the fine.

"At this point, it's not about the money, it's about the principle," a frustrated Gallo said, adding he has no intention of paying the fine without knowing for sure it's not some sort of "scam."

Toronto Councillor Howard Moscoe, chairman of the city's licencing committee, was shocked to learn CBCL was collecting an alleged debt in the city's name.

"1990!" Moscoe said, unable to contain his laughter. "I really shouldn't be surprised because collection agencies are like termites, you just can't get rid of them."

The outstanding fine has never been an issue when Gallo has renewed his licence plate sticker, leading Moscoe to believe that it's not a legitimate City of Toronto parking ticket.

"This could never be a legitimate parking ticket because the City of Toronto has plate denial," Moscoe said. "If (Gallo) had a legitimate parking ticket that he didn't pay, he would not be able to get his licence renewed."

Moscoe suspects CBCL is collecting on behalf of a corporation that owns about 55 parking lots in Toronto and thousands more around the world.

"I've vowed to get rid of these phoney, look-alike tickets one way or the other," Moscoe said, adding he asked the city's legal department just last week to look into the matter to see what can be done.

A call to CBCL's North York office was directed to an office in Washington, DC. That call was not returned.

'FED UP'

Gallo said he's "fed up" and he wonders how many people pay up after receiving such notices without asking any questions.

Gallo claims CBCL told him they would call him "10 times a day" until he pays up. And he's concerned his credit rating may be affected if he doesn't.

"I doubt very much that they can spoil someone's credit rating over $42.50," Moscoe said. "I think he needs to tell the company to go stick it in their ear."
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/12/2007 08:08 AM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
in my case i tried to explain to the agency they were acting on erroneous info and that i had never been convicted for what they were claiming the fine was for. they told me to 'prove it' to them by going to the courts and getting documentation. i said 'sure, but i'll have to charge you for my professional services, plus expenses.' they laughed at me, but continued to phone me ceaselessly for four years over this. they've stopped for now but who knows what they did to my credit.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/12/2007 08:11 AM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
i'm also tempted to start sending the collection agencies invoices each time i answer their frivilous phone calls, and then send the account to the collection agency when they inevitably fail to pay.
A World Transformed (NCCCPC)

User ID: 206343
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03/12/2007 08:14 AM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
I beg to differ. Yes, the useless parts of the economy would collapse, but not the basic/useful parts.

The way it is right now, the more junk you push, the richer you are, while if you deliver water and such, people would spit on your face and laugh at you, or lease you'll garner no respect.

In a capitalist society, people who do basic, or 'useless', jobs are called squirrels running inside a circle cage.

plus, your argument falls apart - 2/3 of the econmy is consumer driven so to ask them not to spend is asking to tank the economy. on the one hand you criticize them for spending, but on the other the economy would collapse if they didn't. plus there's the hard sell in media. you think those ads on tv are cheap? obviously the companies need to sell to run those ads. your scenario of not spending doesn't work economically. i know you said to live in their means, but we're all expected to buy a new car every 5 years and take a vacation every year and buy lots of stuff at Christmas etc.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 137330
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 137330
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03/12/2007 08:28 AM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
I beg to differ. Yes, the useless parts of the economy would collapse, but not the basic/useful parts.
------------------------------------------



i don't quite understand your point. to me it's quite clear. if 2/3 of the economy is consumer based, and you're asking huge chunks of consumer society to stop buying because they can't afford the credit, the economy would collapse. even a minor change in consumer habits of 5-10% would knock at least one leg out from under the economy. then these guys who can't afford to spend would lose even their low paying jobs. go see the story of joshua key, the army deserter who originally joined the army for better prospects because his welder's job at %7.75 per hour couldn't support his family (no kidding)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/12/2007 08:38 AM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
cool the senior with the parking ticket made the front page of today's toronto sun


[link to www.torontosun.com]

look how he tears the notice in half!

bravo! bravo!
A World Transformed (NCCCPC)

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03/12/2007 09:02 AM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
Only the excess is collapsed. People still need to eat. If you're poor to begin with, what do you have to lose? You should see it as a reckoning.

i don't quite understand your point. to me it's quite clear. if 2/3 of the economy is consumer based, and you're asking huge chunks of consumer society to stop buying because they can't afford the credit, the economy would collapse. even a minor change in consumer habits of 5-10% would knock at least one leg out from under the economy. then these guys who can't afford to spend would lose even their low paying jobs. go see the story of joshua key, the army deserter who originally joined the army for better prospects because his welder's job at %7.75 per hour couldn't support his family (no kidding)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 137330
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 90848
Germany
03/12/2007 11:22 AM
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Re: "Over the past generation...incomes have risen an average of 1% in real terms, while our household debt has increased over 1,000%"
It's a global economy now.

How are you going to compete with someone making 25 cents an hour in China?

You aren't.

Jobs are leaving the U.S. faster than you can say "depression".

Our economy is headed for a day of reckoning.

About the only thing our society can do is to push the debt pedal down to the floor and enjoy a couple more years of this party before our economy totally collapses.





GLP