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"Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 05:19 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Communism makes zero sense now, but there will be a day that it will be the only choice. When molecular manufacturing, autonomous vehicles, and artificial intelligence idles large swaths of people, the workforce will need to be reduced by preventing/discouraging procreation and the remaining folks will enjoy the output of the technological advances.

I am as conservative as they come but find myself arguing with my liberal atheist aquaintences that just one technology, autonomous vehicles, will have a devastating impact on many people's livelihoods.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 05:49 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


I am a libertarian that is closer to the conservative side of the spectrum and I have given this proposal a lot of thought. During my contemplation of a universal income the first question I had is where does the money come from? Is it generated from taxes on those who work? Is it generated at the treasury as fiat that is not expected to be paid back with interest? Is it considered a form of subsidy that you lose if you have a job?

If the income is generated from taxing those who work then I can not support it. It is bad enough that the government feels compelled to steal people's money and resources and give it away to those who really don't need it as is. If the income is generated as fiat from the treasury with the expectation of interest upon repayment then I could never support it since again it would just generate debt.

The next problem is inflation. If you give people a universal income of say around 900 dollars a month there won't be much that costs less than 899.00 even a mcdouble. Keep in mind there is already trillions of dollars floating around the globe that if all sent back in short order would completely destroy our economy, you would be adding to that.

The next issue is do you lose it for earning a certain amount for being employed? If so you just completely took away the incentive to work on the books.

Honestly you do realize this is just as terrible an idea as making the 15 an hour minimum wage right, It's gonna have the same outcome. Once everyone has at minimum the same amount of money goods and services will adjust pricing to get as much of the base amount as possible "inflation" which assuredly means people like you will scream for price controls which in turn means we quickly spiral into a Venezuelan esq nightmare.

Not saying a universal income is impossible but I am saying it is a quick road to ruin if even the slightest detail is left unchecked.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 05:50 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Communism makes zero sense now, but there will be a day that it will be the only choice. When molecular manufacturing, autonomous vehicles, and artificial intelligence idles large swaths of people, the workforce will need to be reduced by preventing/discouraging procreation and the remaining folks will enjoy the output of the technological advances.

I am as conservative as they come but find myself arguing with my liberal atheist aquaintences that just one technology, autonomous vehicles, will have a devastating impact on many people's livelihoods.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41942870


Not to mention freedom of movement as everyone will be tracked.
NowIhavetothinkofanam​e

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02/28/2018 05:54 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Giving people something they didn't earn is always a horrible idea. Look at public housing. People have no sense of responsibility to take care of things they didn't earn. Heck even the shared laboratory in my department is the filthiest place on the floor. Even highly knowledgeable and responsible people refuse to maintain public areas as if they were their own.

If you give people money for not working, then they will never work again.

 Quoting: Zedakah


That's why it's a great idea! Just cut funding for it and you get your 500 million people in no time...
 Quoting: NowIhavetothinkofaname


I think people would dedicate their time improving themselves by studying, learning and preparing for the Future which can be quite promising if everyone pulled together.

The Government will have to intervene on behalf of the People (The People are the Government) at some point because technology has reached a point where people's jobs are being made redundant by Automation and Robotics.

Even Burger flippers can be replaced (What would Sponge Bob Square Pants say)?

A Star Trek type future could be closer than it appears, one where People strive to improve themselves and explore the Universe around and within them, in peace.

"We the People" Have to want it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63928440


It's postulated that AI will reach Artificial Super Intelligence either hours or months after Artificial General Intelligence.

If an Artificial Super Intelligence has an IQ of 300 then no human can compete with AI's knowledgeable labor.

Computers and robots will work for AUD 30 cents an hour. So either humans do an inferior job to the AI providing a human experience to other humans, or the humans work for 30 cents an hour doing robot jobs...

Either way humans will just be house cats to our new robot overlords. Wealthy humans will have AI implants and be able to compete with the robots.

But the average person will just be a unloved vermin in the foreseeable future.
NowIhavetothinkofanameohnoithurts
It's all bull!
Nevertheless, the ruler is not truly wise who cannot discern evils before they develop themselves, and this is a faculty given to few. Niccolo Machiavelli
Karma is funny, people who kick dogs usually get bitten.
If someone doesn't add value to your life, then that someone shouldn't be a part of it.
You can always trust people to do whatever is in their own interests.
It is certain wastelands will be brought under cultivation.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 06:20 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
But then again, there's that socialist disaster that just happened in Venezuela.

But that was because the elected leaders placed themselves above the economy and laundered the taxes into their own wallets. In that case, it becomes and issue of human morality rather than economic theory.

Lots of good arguments on both sides.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73424523

Wake up and Listen up Son.

What do you idiot socialist think socialism and communism is????????

The party apparatchiks always get the nice country Dachas, while "the people" get barely furnished coldwater concrete apartments and cold borsche (soup).

Yes it's"free" but it is miserable! and once it is installed you risk the state firing squad or hanging to go back to the way it was. Fences behind the iron curtain were not to keep people out!

Nobody was trying to break into communist countries.

It's human nature; It is the way it has always been! It's why capitalists and conservatives continue to fight you tooth and nail over your "every body gets free shit" utopian bullshit.
slaphim
another do
notAsnowFlake

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02/28/2018 06:22 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


so you will pay a street sweeper the same pay as a Doctor? A Teacher the same as car wash attendant? interesting, I'm wondering how many Doctors will pay for their high cost education to make the same money as the person who works at McDonalds?
I repeat, "notAsnowFlake"
Hope Rising

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02/28/2018 06:22 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
People on people on SSI and those disability have basic income in a way. You will not cut down on these agencies really. Not even for pay role. For aged, disabled people though and children you will always have to offer additional services.
No big savings there. Maybe just welfare and there are people that because they have a borderline IQ and other issues, will always need public support.

I like the idea a lot. But you have to realize it will be used as a carrot and a stick to control your behavior and steal your freedoms. What ever the government give you .. they can take it away.

You have an opinion, that is not popular, the government will fine your hate speech. Go to jail or prison, government will take your basic income. Not so bad right?

Say the government wants you to be drug tested because they don't want to enable your drug habit. Sounds good, you are forced into rehab and have to follow through. All is well.

You don't feel like working or took too many days off. The government will doc your basic income. That's the breaks.

If you don't spend your money the way TPTB think you should they can mandate you pick certain plans to pay for things. They can mandate that you buy certain licenses, foods, medical care, transportation what ever. We all have responsibilities.

Then the government decides, hey, we think you need this or that vaccine. No basic income unless you comply. It's for my own good I suppose.

Then government says I think there is fraud, we need to micro chip you and track your every move. No basic income unless you comply. But I am not a product.

We think you home is too large for you. If you want your basic income we want you to move to a smaller home or lose your basic income. But, I this what I want .

Finally the government says, we think guns are dangerous. We will take away your basic income, unless you give us your fire arms. But is is my right to protect myself and defend against a Tyrannical government.

Then you are property and a slave or you are dead.
See how basic income can be abused.
Oldren

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02/28/2018 06:37 AM

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We don't need universal basic income, we don't need a raise really, what we need is for the price of everything to go down. Over the years the fucks have been steadily raising the prices on everything and at the same time making everything smaller, so we pay more for less. This is a big problem. We would be fine if the assholes doing this could be stopped. So any way instead of paying me more how about forcing these fucks to lower the prices. One more thing, if we were not being flooded with so many assholes from shithole countries our wages would be better, but that is another story.
Hope Rising

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02/28/2018 06:37 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
I don't like starving people. I want people to have housing. But a basic income would have to be something low only for people that fall under a certain income bracket and than something that walks them off to being independent earners.

The potential for drug and alcohol abuse is huge as well.

The low incident Disabled (deaf, blind, autistic, intellectual disability, CP what ever) and the aged should not live on the same level as those on basic income.

The mentally ill disabled would do need a whole other system system in place that would encourage them to work, and still they would have something to fall back on so long as they remained in group and life skills therapies.

The danger of losing your right and freedoms is huge when government plays the Nanny State.
Hope Rising

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02/28/2018 06:50 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
I would much rather give free health and dental care first. You have nothing if you don't have your health.

Free community soup kitchen, dorm housing, and a locker.
There is you base for the young.

From health you can weed through to who is capable of working.
Then there is your base for the age and the disabled.

From capable of working, who can join the military, who is trainable for gainful employment and who deserves a scholarship.
There is another base

From work, who needs help finding work and maintaining work. From maintaining work who, might fall through?

I think the lower system could use improvement to weed through the mentally ill and chronically homeless.

But over all our system is working actually.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 07:05 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
"Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669

No it doesn't.

You're trying to shift what are already far too many federal dollars in welfare entitlements to another entitlement, ostensibly disguised as 'entitlement for all', which is the OPPOSITE of entitlement.

*This* conservative mind would prefer elimination of 85% of those dollars and a working, productive population.

Math? Shuffling money around like that isn't math, it's closer to laundering. lol.
 Quoting: Fret Wiz


End global trade with other nations and work available would skyrocket and wages would go up to what we had 30 years ago.

The problem I have with global capitalists is they want the exuberant profits globalism offers while shitting on this country.

The cry for a basic income is exactly because what global capitalists have done to this country.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 07:09 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
"Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669

No it doesn't.

You're trying to shift what are already far too many federal dollars in welfare entitlements to another entitlement, ostensibly disguised as 'entitlement for all', which is the OPPOSITE of entitlement.

*This* conservative mind would prefer elimination of 85% of those dollars and a working, productive population.

Math? Shuffling money around like that isn't math, it's closer to laundering. lol.
 Quoting: Fret Wiz


You're getting hung up on semantics. It isn't laundering, it's reallocating. The us government does it all the time.
Cant argue with your productivity point, but what do you suggest happens when automation occurs? In 10 years fast food restaurants will be completely roboticized. Physical retail is going the wayside of online retail. Soon, the bottom end of the economy will go belly up. What do we do then, condemn the working class to a fate worse than the gradually eroded middle class? Will we all be forced to move to other continents? Will the top class move exclusively to exports?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73424523


What the global capitalists want is for us to look like the third world. They say live within your means which means you should be living with 20 others in a room to make ends meet while they reside safe in thier gated mansions.
Utili

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02/28/2018 07:21 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
not going to read through pages of this...

the concept of universal basic income can be summed up as: if everyone has $50,000, nobody has $50,000, it just becomes the zero point.
The future is not what it used to be.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 07:26 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
It would cost 1.5 trillion per year to give every adult in America $500 per month... not even enough to live on.

In order to do that without borrowing money, we would have to raise the taxes of every working age American by $1000 per month... I guess that would be a net $500 per month.

Do you have $500 per month lying around? I guess just borrow more from our enemies then?

1dunno1
 Quoting: R. Wordsworth


There are many other alternatives.

For example, there is a lot of empty land in this country. Why not start giving plots to families and letting them live how they want?

That would be free, it would be up to the families to hunt, grow food, and survive.

But that isn't even an option.

Instead they want the poor on food stamps so they can go get full off poisonous fake food.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74958647


This would be my choice. It's all I want really, to be allowed to remove myself from the situation of needing money if i choose. Sick of having to pay simply for existing. It's so unnatural.
Peepaws

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02/28/2018 07:32 AM

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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
It could never work idiot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73163033


If you took away a large portion of money the rich are hoarding, then yes it could.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74958647


Hoarding. Either you believe in private property or you don't. After that you're just arguing details.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 64654395


And the majority of this private property is a result of inheritance, the lazy bums spoiled rich kids who are living off their parents hard work.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74958647


The communists totally agree with you.

The bible clearly states parents should leave their property to their children.

The communists hate the bible because it's big on family and tribes.
Peepaws
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 07:44 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


I am a libertarian that is closer to the conservative side of the spectrum and I have given this proposal a lot of thought. During my contemplation of a universal income the first question I had is where does the money come from? Is it generated from taxes on those who work? Is it generated at the treasury as fiat that is not expected to be paid back with interest? Is it considered a form of subsidy that you lose if you have a job?

If the income is generated from taxing those who work then I can not support it. It is bad enough that the government feels compelled to steal people's money and resources and give it away to those who really don't need it as is. If the income is generated as fiat from the treasury with the expectation of interest upon repayment then I could never support it since again it would just generate debt.

The next problem is inflation. If you give people a universal income of say around 900 dollars a month there won't be much that costs less than 899.00 even a mcdouble. Keep in mind there is already trillions of dollars floating around the globe that if all sent back in short order would completely destroy our economy, you would be adding to that.

The next issue is do you lose it for earning a certain amount for being employed? If so you just completely took away the incentive to work on the books.

Honestly you do realize this is just as terrible an idea as making the 15 an hour minimum wage right, It's gonna have the same outcome. Once everyone has at minimum the same amount of money goods and services will adjust pricing to get as much of the base amount as possible "inflation" which assuredly means people like you will scream for price controls which in turn means we quickly spiral into a Venezuelan esq nightmare.

Not saying a universal income is impossible but I am saying it is a quick road to ruin if even the slightest detail is left unchecked.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25733256


My understanding is that universal income means everyone gets it, whether they're unemployed or a millionaire. Everyone. They just have to be a citizen. This cuts the huge amounts of money spent on red tape and staff that is currently needed to administer the various other types of benefits, not to mention fraud and screw ups resulting in legal appeals etc. Whole government departments would cease to exist due to no longer being needed and that would save a vast amount of money, which in turn would go towards the UBI payments.

Basically a streamlining and simplification that pays to everyone. As it is given to everyone it would become part of taxable income so the taxation system would remain the same, just with every single citizen having that same extra amount of income before taxes.
Sungaze_At_Dawn

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02/28/2018 07:51 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Giving people something they didn't earn is always a horrible idea. Look at public housing. People have no sense of responsibility to take care of things they didn't earn. Heck even the shared laboratory in my department is the filthiest place on the floor. Even highly knowledgeable and responsible people refuse to maintain public areas as if they were their own.

If you give people money for not working, then they will never work again.
 Quoting: Zedakah


Tom cruise and these other Hollywood phonies do not deserve millions of dollars to be in a movie.

Meanwhile hardworking Americans are killing themselves in labor jobs only to make just enough to survive.

The wealth gap is too large and it's one if the major reasons our country is in such bad shape.

Let the Hollywood actors and sports pros get paid minimum wage see how they start complaining.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74958647


THIS.

And every other rich demon as well. Its a system of slavery and massive exploitation.

As far as universal incomes go, this is far too low however.

It needs to be above the poverty line.

OR, EVEN BETTER, VENUS PROJECT AND GET RID OF MONEY AND MAKE EVERY REGION ABLE TO SURVIVE DISASTERS BY PRODUCING ENERGY/FOOD ETC, ALONG WITH WORLD WIDE MARKETS.

PRODUCE IN ABUNDANCE, HAVE VOLUNTEERS, NOT SCARCITY, ABUNDANCE!

NO ONE IN THE UNIVERSE LIVES LIKE THIS UNLESS YOU'RE IN A HELLZONE UNDER DEMONS.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 11:22 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
"Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669

No it doesn't.

You're trying to shift what are already far too many federal dollars in welfare entitlements to another entitlement, ostensibly disguised as 'entitlement for all', which is the OPPOSITE of entitlement.

*This* conservative mind would prefer elimination of 85% of those dollars and a working, productive population.

Math? Shuffling money around like that isn't math, it's closer to laundering. lol.
 Quoting: Fret Wiz


But but...

there are simply not enough taxable, regulated jobs. That's a fact.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 12:17 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
...


If you took away a large portion of money the rich are hoarding, then yes it could.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74958647


Hoarding. Either you believe in private property or you don't. After that you're just arguing details.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 64654395


And the majority of this private property is a result of inheritance, the lazy bums spoiled rich kids who are living off their parents hard work.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74958647


The communists totally agree with you.

The bible clearly states parents should leave their property to their children.

The communists hate the bible because it's big on family and tribes.
 Quoting: Peepaws


Thread: No, working is NOT a normal human activity. It is a religious one.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 12:20 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
not going to read through pages of this...

the concept of universal basic income can be summed up as: if everyone has $50,000, nobody has $50,000, it just becomes the zero point.
 Quoting: Utili


Actually, you should read this thread and yes, it does make financial sense with a few tweaks to the amounts etc.

Two keys are REPLACING ALL existing welfare programs and US CITIZENS ONLY. With that, brilliant.
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2018 01:17 PM
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...


Hoarding. Either you believe in private property or you don't. After that you're just arguing details.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 64654395


And the majority of this private property is a result of inheritance, the lazy bums spoiled rich kids who are living off their parents hard work.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74958647


The communists totally agree with you.

The bible clearly states parents should leave their property to their children.

The communists hate the bible because it's big on family and tribes.
 Quoting: Peepaws


Thread: No, working is NOT a normal human activity. It is a religious one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27690441


Yes, regulated, taxable work is simply not natural to humans.

Activity to ensure good shelter, decent food, warmth, health, good family and community relations, entertainment and worship are certainly normal, healthy human activities. Always have been.

Universal income would encourage normal people to do more of these normal healthy activities.

And create ad hoc, non-regulated, non-taxable work.

Producing more income than is possible through regulated, taxable work and giving people more money to spend on regularly taxed goods which would increase tax revenue.

Another reason the global corps are backing universal income.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 03:30 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


True. "Replacing" ALL the existing programs mentioned and making it for US citizens only, would actually SAVE money.

Just the combining of all of those eliminated government bureaucracies would pay for this program.
wtf richard

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07/10/2018 03:35 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
I'll immediately quit my job.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 03:58 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


all it takes is one federal judge to say that's unconstitutional and then it will take decades to reach
SCOTUS all the while " illegals" are getting payments.
Dash10Captain

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07/10/2018 04:02 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669

stfu

The paid shill posters are out of control on GLP lately....
Enjoying my deplorable privilege daily.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 04:35 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669

stfu

The paid shill posters are out of control on GLP lately....
 Quoting: Dash10Captain


Thread: Bitching about "shills" is just because you cannot win a debate.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 04:40 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


all it takes is one federal judge to say that's unconstitutional and then it will take decades to reach
SCOTUS all the while " illegals" are getting payments.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2226485


Something that big can be "fast tracked" to the Supreme Court.

The reason many of the illegal immigrant issues are not fast tracked is because both parties really want illegals. Even Trump is not ordering the DOJ to start charging companies for employing illegals. That is the fastest and easiest way to end illegal immigration.
Pilgrim001

User ID: 75732347
United States
07/10/2018 04:49 PM

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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
May as well eliminate taxes. End the Fed. Create new debt-free currency issuable by the govt as needed.

I'm sure it will magically all work out.

/sarc ?
 Quoting: The Rickest Rick Sanchez


Not all feasible but REPLACING all of those outdated and bloated programs with a new, streamlined one makes perfect sense from almost every angle.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


Why is it not feasible to end the Fed and eliminate income tax? We got along without them from 1776 to 1913. Yes, eliminate them and the govt can issue fiat money straight from the US treasury, and spend it into the economy , and not borrow money from the FED and owe them Principle and Interest. The govt got by on tariffs before income tax, and we had a very robust economy. It was the envy of the world.
Funny how 'social security' has a shortfall...but never WELFARE!
Gimme a break.
Somehow, we can always afford ALL types of welfare (even for millions of illegal immigrants!), plus billions in foreign aid to nations that hate us...BUT...social security is a "problem".

Nah, the problem is the goobermint...Unknown AC.


Blame it on my ADD, baby...Sail


The election of Donald Trump didn't cause the hatred displayed by the progressive liberal left and democratic party. The election of Donald Trump exposed it.
Donald Isaacson

Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered....Stolen
Pilgrim001

User ID: 75732347
United States
07/10/2018 04:52 PM

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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
That is the stupidest idea I've heard in my life. So, why work? Why should I or anyone bust their ass at work and pay taxes to pay some lazy assholes money they didn't earn? Where is any incentive to invent anything or work overtime or pay taxes or anything? You are a fucking socialist dreaming of some utopia where everything is free. Grow up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68538185


What are you going to do when everything is made by machines? How will you buy anything if you have no job and no money?
Funny how 'social security' has a shortfall...but never WELFARE!
Gimme a break.
Somehow, we can always afford ALL types of welfare (even for millions of illegal immigrants!), plus billions in foreign aid to nations that hate us...BUT...social security is a "problem".

Nah, the problem is the goobermint...Unknown AC.


Blame it on my ADD, baby...Sail


The election of Donald Trump didn't cause the hatred displayed by the progressive liberal left and democratic party. The election of Donald Trump exposed it.
Donald Isaacson

Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered....Stolen
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 48091609
United States
07/10/2018 05:14 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


I am a libertarian that is closer to the conservative side of the spectrum and I have given this proposal a lot of thought. During my contemplation of a universal income the first question I had is where does the money come from? Is it generated from taxes on those who work? Is it generated at the treasury as fiat that is not expected to be paid back with interest? Is it considered a form of subsidy that you lose if you have a job?

If the income is generated from taxing those who work then I can not support it. It is bad enough that the government feels compelled to steal people's money and resources and give it away to those who really don't need it as is. If the income is generated as fiat from the treasury with the expectation of interest upon repayment then I could never support it since again it would just generate debt.

The next problem is inflation. If you give people a universal income of say around 900 dollars a month there won't be much that costs less than 899.00 even a mcdouble. Keep in mind there is already trillions of dollars floating around the globe that if all sent back in short order would completely destroy our economy, you would be adding to that.

The next issue is do you lose it for earning a certain amount for being employed? If so you just completely took away the incentive to work on the books.

Honestly you do realize this is just as terrible an idea as making the 15 an hour minimum wage right, It's gonna have the same outcome. Once everyone has at minimum the same amount of money goods and services will adjust pricing to get as much of the base amount as possible "inflation" which assuredly means people like you will scream for price controls which in turn means we quickly spiral into a Venezuelan esq nightmare.

Not saying a universal income is impossible but I am saying it is a quick road to ruin if even the slightest detail is left unchecked.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25733256


Yes you ve got it. It would work if:

1) eliminate the individual income tax
2) eliminate the.minimum wage
Income needs to be about $3000 a month for a family plus what they can earn thru jobs

They can live in the country then don't have to live in expensive cities.

No minimum wage will equalize international manufacturing and bring jobs back.