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"Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.

 
Anonymous Coward
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Serbia
07/10/2018 05:19 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Computers and robots will work for AUD 30 cents an hour. So either humans do an inferior job to the AI providing a human experience to other humans, or the humans work for 30 cents an hour doing robot jobs...

 Quoting: NowIhavetothinkofaname


Do you really think machines needs money at all? What for? Money is just for mon*k*ey in the future

scratching
Northman

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07/10/2018 05:31 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Yeah but rich people never feel so rich and special as they do when surrounded by poor people.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 05:46 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Yeah but rich people never feel so rich and special as they do when surrounded by poor people.
 Quoting: Northman


We'll make augmented reality for them...

To be what ever they want and act how they want in the hologram

1rof1
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 07:55 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


I am a libertarian that is closer to the conservative side of the spectrum and I have given this proposal a lot of thought. During my contemplation of a universal income the first question I had is where does the money come from? Is it generated from taxes on those who work? Is it generated at the treasury as fiat that is not expected to be paid back with interest? Is it considered a form of subsidy that you lose if you have a job?

If the income is generated from taxing those who work then I can not support it. It is bad enough that the government feels compelled to steal people's money and resources and give it away to those who really don't need it as is. If the income is generated as fiat from the treasury with the expectation of interest upon repayment then I could never support it since again it would just generate debt.

The next problem is inflation. If you give people a universal income of say around 900 dollars a month there won't be much that costs less than 899.00 even a mcdouble. Keep in mind there is already trillions of dollars floating around the globe that if all sent back in short order would completely destroy our economy, you would be adding to that.

The next issue is do you lose it for earning a certain amount for being employed? If so you just completely took away the incentive to work on the books.

Honestly you do realize this is just as terrible an idea as making the 15 an hour minimum wage right, It's gonna have the same outcome. Once everyone has at minimum the same amount of money goods and services will adjust pricing to get as much of the base amount as possible "inflation" which assuredly means people like you will scream for price controls which in turn means we quickly spiral into a Venezuelan esq nightmare.

Not saying a universal income is impossible but I am saying it is a quick road to ruin if even the slightest detail is left unchecked.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25733256


Yes you ve got it. It would work if:

1) eliminate the individual income tax
2) eliminate the.minimum wage
Income needs to be about $3000 a month for a family plus what they can earn thru jobs

They can live in the country then don't have to live in expensive cities.

No minimum wage will equalize international manufacturing and bring jobs back.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48091609


It would be more than paid for by eliminating all the programs OP listed. And this is just a "Basic income," people are free to earn more if they want to pay more things. Makes sense.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 08:00 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
May as well eliminate taxes. End the Fed. Create new debt-free currency issuable by the govt as needed.

I'm sure it will magically all work out.

/sarc ?
 Quoting: The Rickest Rick Sanchez


Not all feasible but REPLACING all of those outdated and bloated programs with a new, streamlined one makes perfect sense from almost every angle.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


Why is it not feasible to end the Fed and eliminate income tax? We got along without them from 1776 to 1913. Yes, eliminate them and the govt can issue fiat money straight from the US treasury, and spend it into the economy , and not borrow money from the FED and owe them Principle and Interest. The govt got by on tariffs before income tax, and we had a very robust economy. It was the envy of the world.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


Tweaking the taxes, or tariffs, or sales tax only, or end of Fed, could all be figured into this. The big one though is the elimination of all the other programs mentioned in OP, along with their bureaucracies, and the US citizens only. Those two things would pay for the new plan.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 08:11 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Income by definition is something that is earned from your labor talent or invention.

I think it would be cheaper to build a gigantic housing facility with guard towers and walls surrounding it to protect them from the evil cant-count Republicans. Feed them 3 healthy square meals a day. Medical residents could serve their first 3 years giving them medical attention for free tuition and a smaller salary.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 08:12 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


Has to happen or everyone will be working for minimum wage. Cannot out work a robot and robots do not need middle managers.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 08:41 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Considering the fact that money supply is supposed to be representative of available workforce energy and yet now we've allowed ourselves to be taxed into a new definition of money, I think we are too fucking dumb to discuss the topic. We are good lil' sheep, let's keep it that way.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 08:54 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
The US government revenues reach approximately 3.4 trillions today.

If you cut the federal departments Ron Paul had mentioned in 2007 and 2011, end all foreign aid, end all wars and close all foreign military bases, loads of new cash would be available.

However, the biggest move would be to call all debts owed to the FED NULL and VOID, not to foreign countries, only to the FED. Yearly interest payments would instantly become affordable once again.

You'd suddenly have some serious options with all that new available cash.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 09:30 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
"Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669

No it doesn't.

You're trying to shift what are already far too many federal dollars in welfare entitlements to another entitlement, ostensibly disguised as 'entitlement for all', which is the OPPOSITE of entitlement.

*This* conservative mind would prefer elimination of 85% of those dollars and a working, productive population.

Math? Shuffling money around like that isn't math, it's closer to laundering. lol.
 Quoting: Fret Wiz


You're getting hung up on semantics. It isn't laundering, it's reallocating. The us government does it all the time.
Cant argue with your productivity point, but what do you suggest happens when automation occurs? In 10 years fast food restaurants will be completely roboticized. Physical retail is going the wayside of online retail. Soon, the bottom end of the economy will go belly up. What do we do then, condemn the working class to a fate worse than the gradually eroded middle class? Will we all be forced to move to other continents? Will the top class move exclusively to exports?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73424523


DEPOPULTION
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 09:30 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Why not just create a 500$ stimulus tax deductible. So people working who pay the taxes essentially get paid 500$ back. Instituting a cover all 500$ a month will lend many people to scheming a way to never work again. The astronomical price of the program would be a nail in the coffin for our economy. On the low end you have 100,000,000 people eligible, at 500 a month is 50 billion dollars, so roughly 600 billion a year, and that's being super safe on the lowest possible side of things. Medicaid and welfare together right now are about 700 billion a year. Without Medicaid, federal welfare spending is about 320 billion, roughly half the universal income amount. There's no way the fed would/could stop low income health insurance programs like Medicaid so we'd be looking at a trillion a year easy for this plan. I say fuck it and cut all the bullshit. being on "welfare" nabs you a box of saltines and peanut butter every week. If you don't make it, sorry. Survival of the fittest. We're over populated as it is. Urchins only consuming in this society is the only reason our economy is so bad right now.
3 step plan to fix all this bs

-close borders become isolationist again, create incentives for illegals to become legal
-stop all welfare and government subsidized "help" programs, cut taxes to 10% on everything flat, and 20% if you make more than 1 million a year
-spend all available research funds on renewable energy and ai tech

Boom 20 years from now, we'll be so ahead of the rest of the world it'll be nuts
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 09:55 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Giving people something they didn't earn is always a horrible idea. Look at public housing. People have no sense of responsibility to take care of things they didn't earn. Heck even the shared laboratory in my department is the filthiest place on the floor. Even highly knowledgeable and responsible people refuse to maintain public areas as if they were their own.

If you give people money for not working, then they will never work again.
 Quoting: Zedakah


Like every corporate ceo and all members of our government?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74958647


Do you commie soy bois boys have any idea what a corporate CEO does all day???????And all week end??
s. d. butler

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07/10/2018 09:57 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


laugh
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 11:55 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
The US government revenues reach approximately 3.4 trillions today.

If you cut the federal departments Ron Paul had mentioned in 2007 and 2011, end all foreign aid, end all wars and close all foreign military bases, loads of new cash would be available.

However, the biggest move would be to call all debts owed to the FED NULL and VOID, not to foreign countries, only to the FED. Yearly interest payments would instantly become affordable once again.

You'd suddenly have some serious options with all that new available cash.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42251147


The ending/consolidating the existing welfare and federal benefit programs would pay for this plan. And would be much more beneficial to the economy as more people would have more money to spend.
Anonymous Coward
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07/10/2018 11:58 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Why not just create a 500$ stimulus tax deductible. So people working who pay the taxes essentially get paid 500$ back. Instituting a cover all 500$ a month will lend many people to scheming a way to never work again. The astronomical price of the program would be a nail in the coffin for our economy. On the low end you have 100,000,000 people eligible, at 500 a month is 50 billion dollars, so roughly 600 billion a year, and that's being super safe on the lowest possible side of things. Medicaid and welfare together right now are about 700 billion a year. Without Medicaid, federal welfare spending is about 320 billion, roughly half the universal income amount. There's no way the fed would/could stop low income health insurance programs like Medicaid so we'd be looking at a trillion a year easy for this plan. I say fuck it and cut all the bullshit. being on "welfare" nabs you a box of saltines and peanut butter every week. If you don't make it, sorry. Survival of the fittest. We're over populated as it is. Urchins only consuming in this society is the only reason our economy is so bad right now.
3 step plan to fix all this bs

-close borders become isolationist again, create incentives for illegals to become legal
-stop all welfare and government subsidized "help" programs, cut taxes to 10% on everything flat, and 20% if you make more than 1 million a year
-spend all available research funds on renewable energy and ai tech

Boom 20 years from now, we'll be so ahead of the rest of the world it'll be nuts
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42224058


The models of the past will not work. Too much automation coming for every person to work 40 hour jobs. And automation does not require all the middle managers either so that is another whole group that will be jobless.
s. d. butler

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07/11/2018 07:19 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
That is the stupidest idea I've heard in my life. So, why work? Why should I or anyone bust their ass at work and pay taxes to pay some lazy assholes money they didn't earn? Where is any incentive to invent anything or work overtime or pay taxes or anything? You are a fucking socialist dreaming of some utopia where everything is free. Grow up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68538185


Socialists/communists have never been able to explain away the problem of the free rider.

Which is what dooms the idea of socialism/communism.

But they are always willing to use force and kill people who don't go along with the failed idea.


Hive people don't understand the concept apparently.
Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 07:42 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
People, just like the physics of electrical circuitry, will always travel the path of least resistance. Once you have money for nothing, then doing nothing will be the order of the day until the pain of starvation, lack of shelter, no clothes, travel, communications, etc. kick in
Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 11:37 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
People, just like the physics of electrical circuitry, will always travel the path of least resistance. Once you have money for nothing, then doing nothing will be the order of the day until the pain of starvation, lack of shelter, no clothes, travel, communications, etc. kick in
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71641081


All you "socialist/communist" and "lazy" commenters are failing to understand the OP or read all of this thread.

Most of your complaints have been successfully disputed by others already. Automation is going to ELIMINATE many of the existing jobs. That is not in dispute.

Mainly, you are failing to realize that the currently EXISTING programs already exist and many are going bankrupt. Something DIFFERENT must be done with Social Security, etc, so why not do something that MOST benefits the US citizens and the US economy?

Also, this is "BASIC Income." Basic to live on, buy food from farmers, buy goods from manufacturers, in other words, fuel the US economy. MOST people do NOT want to live on BASIC income for their whole lives, if they did, they would not be working for promotions or changing jobs. MOST people will still want to work to live a higher lifestyle.
Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 11:45 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Sounds like communism, it does not work unless they make everyone work like communism does.
Then we are all poor except for the few politicians that steal everything.
Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 11:48 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Recover the missing trillions.
PhennommennonnModerator
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07/11/2018 11:51 AM

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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


That's canvasing the fact this is factually COMMUNISM
So Fuck this and Fuck your mother
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"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you've heard a lot here today and I won't try to go back over it all. But you have to go back in that room and make some decisions and there is one thing I want to make very clear to you before you do. I'm not trying to convince you that you should like what Larry Flynt does. I don't like what he does. But what I do like is... that I live in a country... where you and I can make that decision for ourselves. I like that I live in a country where I can pick up Hustler magazine... read it if I want... or throw it in the trash, if that's where I think it belongs. Or better yet I can express my opinion by not buying it. I like that right. I care about it. And you should care about it, too... because we live in a free country. We say that a lot, but sometimes we forget what that means, so listen again. We live in a free country. That is a powerful idea. That's a magnificent way to live. But there is a price for that freedom, which is that sometimes... we have to tolerate things that we don't necessarily like. So go back in that room... where you are free to think whatever you want to think... about Larry Flynt and Hustler magazine. But then ask yourselves if you want to make that decision for the rest of us... because the freedom that everyone in this room enjoys... is, in a very real way, in your hands. If we start throwing up walls against what some of us think is obscene... we may wake up one morning and realize... that walls have been thrown upin places we never expected... and we can't see anythingor... do anything. And that's not freedom. That is not freedom. So, be careful. Thank you."
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Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 11:56 AM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


The price of gallon of milk is what it is because that is what the largest number the majority can afford. If you increase the min. Wage to 15 dollars or give out a basic income the price of everything will rise accordingly.
Which means every fucking year the amount given to people will have to raised and then prices will go up again so on and so on.
Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 12:05 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


That's canvasing the fact this is factually COMMUNISM
So Fuck this and Fuck your mother
 Quoting: Phennommennonn


"Communisms" core desire is that everyone should be paid the same amount no matter what they do. Doctors make the same salary as clerks do.

This plan is much different, it replaces/consolidates all the existing programs and provides BASIC buying power for everyone. HOWEVER, smarter or more ambitious people are free to become RICH based on their own work and skills. There is NO restrictions on how much you want to make. Much different concept from communism discouraging wealth.
Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 12:08 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
why not just print us all a million?
Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 12:11 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


The price of gallon of milk is what it is because that is what the largest number the majority can afford. If you increase the min. Wage to 15 dollars or give out a basic income the price of everything will rise accordingly.
Which means every fucking year the amount given to people will have to raised and then prices will go up again so on and so on.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76746495


Social Security AGENCY. Disability DEPT. Unemployment DEPT. Welfare AGENCY. Food Stamp DEPT. VA Disability DEPT. Medicaid Dept. etc, etc,

ALL of those payments and AGENCIES go away and are streamlined into ONE program that benefits the MOST people and provides much more benefit to the US economy. First, the new program law is written and clearly states US CITIZENS ONLY. Billions of dollars saved with that alone.
iSwear

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07/11/2018 12:53 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Semantics get me all the time.

We seem to always find a way to service other humans that need shit.
 Quoting: Fret Wiz


Now that is some funny semantics right there!!

epiclol
"The brain is a prism that processes light into abstract reality" - Me

"I am complete as I am. I stand on the edge of infinity knowing what I am" - Me
Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 01:39 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Great idea

Universal Basic income connected to a social score.

Fabolous idea - I love it
Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 02:36 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
Instead of just reflexively opposing a Basic Income in the US, the Republicans should actually look at the advantages.

If the new Basic Income Law is passed so that it completely REPLACES welfare payments, food stamps, Social Security payments, disability payments, and ALL other government payments, the savings in paper shuffling and bureaucracy alone would pay for the new program.

Also, by writing the new law to apply to "US Citizens ONLY," it would eliminate Billions of dollars in payments to illegals in all of those replaced programs.

A Basic Income would also increase the buying power for retailers, etc. This idea makes perfect sense from both a liberal and conservative perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


It's amazing when complete fucking retards look at these programs and cream their jeans when visions of sugar plums and free shit start dancing in their heads.

So let's do this!!!!!

And it can be paid for STRICTLY BY THEM.

Then the dipshits will understand.

Possibly...
Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 02:51 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
OK OP, since you're still here, you said this would make sense to Republicans if we actually do the math.

So let's do the math OP. How much would this "basic income" be per month?
 Quoting: R. Wordsworth


I would say $2000 per adult, $1000 per dependent while ENDING ALL of the existing programs. The bureaucratic savings alone would be tremendous as well as the dumping of all the illegals off of those programs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75011669


That would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 trillion dollars per year.

We only collect about 3 trillion per year in taxes. Eliminating all other welfare programs and social security would save us a trillion, but that leaves us still 2 trillion per year short just to pay for the universal income nevermind the rest of our budget.

Where's the money gonna come from OP???
 Quoting: R. Wordsworth

2 trillion more only? NASA for one! They get 18 billion per year.
Anonymous Coward
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07/11/2018 02:55 PM
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Re: "Universal Basic Income" makes sense even for Republicans IF they actually do the math.
why not just print us all a million?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14759731


They’re doing it already anyway, they’ve been doing it. Look what happened in 2008 saved all the banks but didn’t do shit for the rest of us who lost their houses.